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AR15.COM
6/1/2005 2:10:45 PM EDT
What are the pros and cons of the European Union constitution that the French and Dutch have struck down?
6/1/2005 2:12:52 PM EDT
[#1]
big con: losing sovereignty
6/1/2005 2:13:26 PM EDT
[#2]

There are no pros - it's a ridiculous document.  Something like 500 pages of legalistic masturbation.   (Granted, I am somewhat biased against it).  Ultimately, it was an attempt to be everything to everybody, and take all old treaties and agreements into account, and by trying to please everyone, it turned into a bland and boring technical document with little actual meaning.


I cannot imagine a better written Constitution that the U.S. one - they should just have photocopied that.  
6/1/2005 2:16:15 PM EDT
[#3]
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2950276.stm

PREAMBLE

HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE BELGIANS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE CZECH
REPUBLIC, HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF DENMARK, THE PRESIDENT OF THE
FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
ESTONIA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE HELLENIC REPUBLIC, HIS MAJESTY THE
KING OF SPAIN, THE PRESIDENT OF THE FRENCH REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT
OF IRELAND, THE PRESIDENT OF THE ITALIAN REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF
THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LATVIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LITHUANIA, HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS THE
GRAND DUKE OF LUXEMBOURG, THE PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
HUNGARY, THE PRESIDENT OF MALTA, HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THE
NETHERLANDS, THE FEDERAL PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF AUSTRIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF POLAND, THE PRESIDENT OF THE
PORTUGUESE REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SLOVENIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE SLOVAK REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
FINLAND, THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF SWEDEN, HER MAJESTY
THE QUEEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN
IRELAND,

Drawing inspiration from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, from which
have developed the universal values of the inviolable and inalienable rights of the human person,
democracy, equality, freedom and the rule of law,

Believing that Europe, reunited after bitter experiences, intends to continue along the path of
civilisation, progress and prosperity, for the good of all its inhabitants, including the weakest and
most deprived; that it wishes to remain a continent open to culture, learning and social progress; and
that it wishes to deepen the democratic and transparent nature of its public life, and to strive for
peace, justice and solidarity throughout the world,

Convinced that, while remaining proud of their own national identities and history, the peoples of
Europe are determined to transcend their ancient divisions and, united ever more closely, to forge a
common destiny,

Convinced that, thus "united in its diversity", Europe offers them the best chance of pursuing, with
due regard for the rights of each individual and in awareness of their responsibilities towards future
generations and the Earth, the great venture which makes of it a special area of human hope,
Determined to continue the work accomplished within the framework of the Treaties establishing
the European Communities and the Treaty on European Union, by ensuring the continuity of the
Community acquis,

Grateful to the members of the European Convention for having prepared the draft of this
Constitution on behalf of the citizens and States of Europe,
Have designated as their plenipotentiaries:
(list...)

Who, having exchanged their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:

********************************************

The rest continues over 300 FUCKING PAGES.

Remember this is *JUST* the Constitution, nothing more.  
6/1/2005 2:17:32 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2950276.stm

PREAMBLE

HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE BELGIANS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE CZECH
REPUBLIC, HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF DENMARK, THE PRESIDENT OF THE
FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
ESTONIA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE HELLENIC REPUBLIC, HIS MAJESTY THE
KING OF SPAIN, THE PRESIDENT OF THE FRENCH REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT
OF IRELAND, THE PRESIDENT OF THE ITALIAN REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF
THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LATVIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LITHUANIA, HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS THE
GRAND DUKE OF LUXEMBOURG, THE PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
HUNGARY, THE PRESIDENT OF MALTA, HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THE
NETHERLANDS, THE FEDERAL PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF AUSTRIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF POLAND, THE PRESIDENT OF THE
PORTUGUESE REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SLOVENIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE SLOVAK REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
FINLAND, THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF SWEDEN, HER MAJESTY
THE QUEEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN
IRELAND,

Drawing inspiration from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, from which
have developed the universal values of the inviolable and inalienable rights of the human person,
democracy, equality, freedom and the rule of law,

Believing that Europe, reunited after bitter experiences, intends to continue along the path of
civilisation, progress and prosperity, for the good of all its inhabitants, including the weakest and
most deprived; that it wishes to remain a continent open to culture, learning and social progress; and
that it wishes to deepen the democratic and transparent nature of its public life, and to strive for
peace, justice and solidarity throughout the world,

Convinced that, while remaining proud of their own national identities and history, the peoples of
Europe are determined to transcend their ancient divisions and, united ever more closely, to forge a
common destiny,

Convinced that, thus "united in its diversity", Europe offers them the best chance of pursuing, with
due regard for the rights of each individual and in awareness of their responsibilities towards future
generations and the Earth, the great venture which makes of it a special area of human hope,
Determined to continue the work accomplished within the framework of the Treaties establishing
the European Communities and the Treaty on European Union, by ensuring the continuity of the
Community acquis,

Grateful to the members of the European Convention for having prepared the draft of this
Constitution on behalf of the citizens and States of Europe,
Have designated as their plenipotentiaries:
(list...)

Who, having exchanged their full powers, found in good and due form, have agreed as follows:

********************************************

The rest continues over 300 FUCKING PAGES.

Remember this is *JUST* the Constitution, nothing more.  



Am I crazy, or does this have a socialist/communist twinge to it?
6/1/2005 2:23:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Given the fact the the Phrench were the big movers behind it and that they pride themselves on their socialism, yes it most certainly does have a "socialist/communist twinge" to it.
6/1/2005 2:25:35 PM EDT
[#6]
The major problem the Fucking French have with it is that it leaned too far towards capitalism.

Their lazy, socialist, cheese eating asses would have to actually start performing in order for them to stay within constitutional mandates.  That didn't sit too well with the ones that are leaching off the government.
6/1/2005 2:28:58 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
There are no pros - it's a ridiculous document.  Something like 500 pages of legalistic masturbation.   (Granted, I am somewhat biased against it).  Ultimately, it was an attempt to be everything to everybody, and take all old treaties and agreements into account, and by trying to please everyone, it turned into a bland and boring technical document with little actual meaning.


I cannot imagine a better written Constitution that the U.S. one - they should just have photocopied that.  



'Legalistic Masturbation'…… that's the best description of the pile of shit I've heard yet!  Nice one DK!!

A better wriiten Constitution???

I'll raise you my one…

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire,
Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.


How's that for a preamble?

ANdy
6/1/2005 2:29:17 PM EDT
[#8]
If your a religious person EU= Army of Magogg.

I think I spelled it right.