Posted: 3/30/2005 12:09:18 PM EDT
|
Hey guys, I know this question has been posed in the past but I am still un-clear as to what is legal or not . I have a buddy that is looking to purchase an AR lower that is registered as a pistol. Can this lower be built into a pistol and changed to a rifle and back to a pistol at will or once it is built as a pistol must it stay that way? I do not want to give him bad information and have told him to look into his local and state laws regarding this but he is not coming up with any clear answers. Any help in this regard would be appreciated. |
|
No. It is a federal law, stocks can not be added to AR pistol receivers. You could put a "buntline" long barrel on however. And IIRC, I think any tactical vertical handgrip would also be illegal. Just have him buy a rifle receiver too. It is the ARFKOM way. Correction: If you put a stock on your AR Pistol, you would have to put a 16" barrel on it too. The only pistols that get away with having a stock & a short barrel are some curios like the Inglis Hi-Power and the Luger. |
Ok, is it just AR pistol registered receivers that this holds to? Reason I ask is that I have a Mech Tech conversion for my 1911 pistol that turns it into a carbine with a buttstock and long barrel and is legal. I have advised him to buy both type lowers also, LOL!!! It is what I would do!!! 
|
+1 In general: If it is a virgin receiver (i.e. never had a buttstock of any kind) it may be built into a pistol (or a rifle, for that matter). If it is a pistol, it may later be converted into a rifle. If it is a rifle (has a buttstock), it cannot later be converted into a pistol. |
|
First it doesn't have to be "registeraed as a pistol". As long as it is a stripped receiver it can be built into a pistol or rifle. Do a little searching there is a BATFE letter that states this, all OOW receivers for AKs are written up as rifles but I know that the owner has speciffically went over this exact topic with he BATFE to make sure the purchaser could do anything they want with it after purchase. Now there seems to be some wierd contention over whether you can convert a pistol into a rifle and back again. There are MANY sytems out there that turn a pistol into a rifle and back again. These are all totally legal. But everyone says an AR cannot be used in that fashion. I beleve the BATFE has added to this. The problem is that the BATFE has said that you CANNOT turn a rifle into a pistol. But since it was a pistol first it seems to exempt those guns from that provision. I'd say buy it and at most have it put on the 4473 as a pistol. Then there is some documentation to the fact that it's a pistol. edited to add any vertical foregrip on a pistol makes it an AOW, which requires a tax stamp. The stamp is $200 for the creation of an AOW, and $5 for transfer of an AOW. |
So, it CAN be registered as a pistol, built into a pistol then later converted to a rifle and then back to a pistol at will? This is what I want to be sure of. Thanx for the answers and help so far! |
According to federal law yes. If it started as a rifle, it always had to be a rifle. If it started as a pistol, it can be made into a rifle and back into a pistol. Local laws may vary. |
My understanding is that's a bit of a gray area. It seems like it should be that way (as in an Encore pistol, Beretta NEOS pistol w/ carbine kit, or the aforementioned Mech-Tech conversion), but I am not 100% sure you can go back to an AR pistol if you convert it into a rifle down the road. You should be able to do so if it was a pistol first, but I'm not going to pretend to know the final word on that one. 
|
This is what I am afraid of. Converting back and forth at will, even though it is registered as a pistol in origin, it still causes many different answers and opinions to be given. I have not found anything as of yet in the BATFE manual but will continue looking. I appreciate the info and if anyone knows of a Reg Number or page in the BATFE manual that I can refer to it sure would be helpful. Thanx again guys. |
|
T/C went to bat with the BATF sometime ago in regards their handguns. I have researched this extensively A: Because I love AR15 pistols B: I got tired of people who had NO CLUE telling me all the wrong facts. The rules: (9/2004--Present) Pistols CAN be made into rifles but rifles CANNOT be made into pistols. ALL AR15 receivers are VIRGIN until papered for the first time on a Form 4473. The first time papered is the determination as to what that receiver can be made into. There is NO NEED for a Form 1 or a $200 tax to build a LEGALLY PAPERED Ar15 pistol. The caliber written on the Form 4473 does not determine the ONLY caliber that gun can ever fire. (if so every person with a 9mm upper for a Ar would be a criminal-Along with every T/C owner) If you are stupid enough to put a pistol barrel on a pistol receiver,then attach a stock- you get what you deserve for being an idiot. If you purchase a stripped receiver SECONDHAND and it was already once papered (Form4473) as rifle- Your screwed! It can NEVER be made into a legal pistol. I hope this covers everything, as I do not claim to know alot but I have researched the hell out of Ar15 pistols. My sources for information include the following: BATF Tom Bowers Board Danbrews Papers JPFO NFA |
Correct. The issue was decided by the Supreme Court in "US vs. Thompson/Center". T/C sold a Contender pistol kit that included a stock and long barrel to convert it into a rifle. ATF said this was illegal, because the stock could be installed without the 16" barrel, so that there was "constructive intent" to make an unregistered SBR. The SC disagreed, stating that since there was a legal way to assemble the parts, the citizen was given the benefit of the doubt. This strongly confirmed the right to convert a pistol into a rifle and back. It also made it okay to possess parts that *could* be assembled into an illegal configuration, as long as you had the ability to use that part in a LEGAL configuration. -Troy |
No, absolutely not. And, in fact, any such markings are meaningless. A number of stripped lowers that were engraved "PISTOL" on them have been sold, and many were made into rifles without first being made into pistols. Those lowers cannot now be legally made into pistols despite the engraving. -Troy |
Not quite. THe 4473 can say it's a pile of crap from a raped donkey. it does not matter. the 4473 is NOT registration of any sort. What does matter is if it has EVER been assembled. If it is a virgin receiver, it can say rifle on the 4473, and you can still legally make it a pistol. If you're making an AR pistol, the ONLY thing that matters is that it's never been previously assembled into a rifle. |