Posted: 3/27/2005 10:18:09 AM EDT
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if the poverty level is at about $9.30 an hour in wages for a family of 4 say a husband wife and two children (why most parents work and the children suffer) why is minimum wage just barley a third of that at just under $6.00 now think about this this id\s the 2005 federal guidlines. But the cost of owning a home much less a new car utility and gas prices. $19,350 a year isnt going to cut it. minimum wage at todays atandards equal about $12,200 a year. Size of Family Unit 48 Contiguous States 1 $ 9,570 2 12,830 3 16,090 4 19,350 5 22,610 6 25,870 7 29,130 8 32,390 link |
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what about hard labor jobs blue collar jobs that pay minimum wage? and as far as learning a trade I don’t make minimum wage now, but when I got out of the military I got a job with the local sheriffs dept. I was artillery and had no civilian counter partfor my service training. but for three years i worked full time for the sheriffs dept. and i made 1000 dollars a month salary. It happens that if you don’t live in a big city wage isn’t high but consumer products are higher because of mom and pop store prices. I wasn’t married then but coworkers were. I know I put myself their but i wasnt married and i didnt mind but for some other people I just think the situation is ironic. Edited to add that take home pay was $840 a month as an L.E.O. small counties and cities dont pay that much not to mention what county was apying its electritions and plumbers.... Honest trade men not makeing 15-20 an hour but much less. |
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When I started at the plant, 21 years ago, I was 18. My starting was $3.50 an hour, the min wage was $3.35 an hour. My first paycheck for 4 days, I started on a Wednesday my bring home was $92. I have worked my ass off for that place, and now 21 years later, I am making decent money. SHould I have went to school and got a degree, looking back on it, you damn right I should have. If you want to make money and good money fairly young in life, get a education. I kick myself for it. Being a mechanic is not the kind of living I encourage among people, it breaks you down, my back, knees and shoulder and elbow are toast. Get a collage education. |
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There are a few things I'd like to throw in the mix. First: I just love it when the bleeding hearts talk about how it's impossible to raise a family on $5.15/hour. Newsflash Nitwits... It's called "MINIMUM" wage, NOT "comfortable wage" or "adequate wage" or "raise-a-family-of-three-on-it wage"!! It's enough for a MINIMUM amount of people (that being ONE person) to live on at MINIMUM standard of living (no car, no cellphone, no TV, no overpriced convenient-store junkfood, etc.)! That's why they call it MINIMUM wage!  Second: To those who support the Federal Minimum Wage AND our Constitution, answer this please: Where in the Constitution does it grant the Gov't the power to mandate wages? Third: If anyone's in favor of a Gov't-imposed "minimum wage" and thinks that... (A) the Gov't has the legitimate authority under the Constitution to mandate such a wage, Then... (B) the Gov't must also have the authority and the right (at it's whim) to impose a "maximum wage" as well as Gov't-imposed wage brackets for ALL occupations and ALL workers employed by private employers. If anyone agrees with (A), then do you also agree with (B)? If not, please explain your contraditory logic. You know Clinton/Clinton/Gore floated that Communist balloon of Gov't-imposed wage brackets for the private sector during the 1996 Presidential Election. It's what they want - it's what they ALWAYS wanted - they just have to find the right way to "SELL" it to the sheeple. The minimum wage is NOT meant to raise a family on - all realities aside. It's not even Constitutional! But hell, what's the Constitution to a bunch of do-gooder socialists hell-bent on enslaving all Americans into Gov't-imposed universal mediocrity. But because so many knucklebrained morons start having kids at 15, or are addle-brained, uneducable mooks and midriffs, or are unmotivated, lazy, pot-smoking skateboard-riding stoners, or are just too wreckles and irresponsible to hold any decent job for longer than three months and drift through life with no goal other than to get back to bed, we have big Gov't-Nanny to get them a fatter paycheck than they're worth which just encourages their dim-witted, irresponsible, slothful, aimless, unmotivated lazy habits in perpetuity. Bottomline: Piss on the minimum wage and all those closet-communists who defend it.  |
Apparently my mom did. I guess poor people don't fall and love and want families where you come from. And, no, she never took any state assistance. She just worked three jobs. Unless you're saying abortion is the way to go, I'm curious just how it is poor people would go about having 100% control over wether or not they have kids? |
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On another board some folks were all for raising the minimum wage. I asked if that in turn would not also increase the cost of goods? I got lots of silence and huffiness. Basically if you raise the minimum wage you are going to have a raise in the cost of goods, so did you raise the living standards for the minimum wage folks, not in the overall picture. Did you perhaps lower the living standards of folks making more than minimum wage who now see an increase in cost of goods and did not get a raise? Most likely. Next we can play around with what is needed to live. If you live in a tiny apartment and walk to work, you can live on minimum wage. No car is needed if you walk to work and shop at local stores and what not. I agree with the idea that before you have a wife and/or kids you should be making some decent money so you can provide for them. Minimum wage is just that, minimum. It is not a wage that will let you live a happy life, go on a great vacation for 2 weeks of the year, and retire early. These are just some of my thoughts on this stuff. I really hate that there is even a minimum wage to begin with. Oh, since it is tax time lets also not forget about the wealth redistribution that is called "earned income credit" when it really should be called "you did not earn it and the government is stealing it from folks who make more money so your sorry butt can spend their money." As for the military pay plans, they may not make very much but does their pay rate also include the fact that they don't spend money on housing and food and what not? I agree if someone in the military is married they can easily wind up on food stamps, a relative of mine married a guy in the navy and they had all sorts of problems trying to live on his income only. In this instance I think they should have delayed the marriage and kids till proper income was available. But oh well, just my ramblings. |
| By the way, I also don't support a minimum wage. The marketplace should be competitive. Jobs should go to those most highly capable of doing the job and competitive wages and demand for skills should dictate what wages are. I believe pay would actually increase if we killed the minimum wage. |
Do you believe you are the product of personal responsibility? How many people do you think actually were planning on having a child when they got pregnant? |
I remember when my dad was in the Army, we were poor as anything. I was only 4 when he got out of the Army as an E4 or E5...but all I can remember was how unhappy they were... 
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VERY WISE words 
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Most people can afford to have a child. If you are so bad off that you are making minimum wage, it might take a modicum of self control to wrap it up before testing the shocks on the mobile home/van/cardboard box. eta: royal "you", not hatebreed |
I would agree with that, however there is one large caveat. College tuition is going up every year at least double, if not 5 to 6 times the rate of inflation every year. It won't be that long into the future where college will be cost prohibitive except for the upper middle class and upper class. Go price a 4 year degree at a good private school now...and if you think that is bad, go have a kid and think about what it will be 18 years from now... |
Gee, you are breaking my heart. |
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I don't think all the libs who whine about how minimum wage is too low have ever left the Left Coast to realize everything is cheaper in states that don't pay the 15 year old kid working at McDonalds $7.25. Regarding soldier's pay... how many of you guys can say you were able to BANK $12,000/year (though, I honestly thought it was more like $30k) before you were able to drink legally (assuming you weren't living with your parents)? |
| Even the thought of minimum wage sucks. Every time it goes up, the business owner has to pay out more on YOUR income. The cost of doing business doesn't just go up the cost of the hourly wage. Not only that, everyone in the line up has to get a raise just to stay above the low man. Minimum wasn't ment to be a living wage, it is a starting point for the guy that sweeps floors and has dream of moving up the ladder. |
If you can not get a 4 year degree get a 2 year degree or go to a Tech school and learn a trade. I know a upscale neighborhood where I think everyone is a plumber or a electrician. I think people in this day in time just want to have things handed to them. You have to work for what you want in this life. I have a 2 year degree and now make >60k a year but I had to work for every penny of it. |
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You can raise the minimum wage, but you won't ever change the fact that some types of work or skills are valued more highly than others. Lots of factors go into how much a given job is valued by those who have to pay for it, but let's make a simple example: Let's say that mimimum wage is $5/hour. This is what the new guy at McD's makes. The new data-entry person at the bank makes $10. The new auto mechanic makes $15. The plumber makes $25. The engineer makes $50. The surgeon makes $100. If you look, it's easy to see the relative worth of the job that each of these is given in our society. Based on the guy at McD's, the data entry person makes 2x, the auto mechanic makes 3x, the plumber makes 5x, the engineer 10x, and the surgeon 20x. No matter what you raise the minimum wage to, those relative worths will stay the same, so raising the minimum will, over a short period of time, result in raising all of those other wages to compensate. All of those increased wages have to be passed on to the consumers of all the businesses, which means that inflation rises across the board. In other words, the price of everything goes up. In the end, the actual buying power of the person making minimum wage doesn't increase. However, this isn't a "no harm, no foul" either, because the rise in inflation LOWERS the buying power of everyone on a fixed income, such as retirees. Those people's pensions and such aren't going to go up to match the inflation, so their spending power is decreased. The way to get ahead in the world is not by increasing an artificially set minimum wage; it is to increase the REALTIVE worth of your skills and labor. And because everything is relative, there will always be people on the bottom end of the scale. They will be the folks who can't or (usually) won't invest in themselves to improve their skill level. -Troy |
Everyone can get a good education at state schools, but they might have to work at it. In fact, in my experience, the quality of instruction is best at community colleges where the instructors are interested in teaching and do more than go through the motions. The truth is, after you start work, where you attended college is secondary to your actual performance. I work with folks with degrees from all over and their capability has more to do with their character and basic smarts than the school they attended, which is only a topic of secondary interest. The incompetent quit on their own or transfer to less demanding jobs. There's always the route through military service, too, but you have to take advantage of the opportunity instead of fucking off. ETA: minimum wage laws are socialist wealth redistribution notions. So is Section 8 housing and the Earned Income Credit on your tax return. |
running the projectors.