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AR15.COM
2/23/2005 10:42:22 AM EDT
I think we should seriously consider creating an organization to counter the strangle hold OPEC has on our economy.  

OFEC Organization of Food Exporting Countries

OPEC wants to sell oil for $50 a barrel, fine.  Let them buy wheat from OFEC at $50 a bushel.  Would it work?  What would the unintended consequences be?
2/23/2005 10:47:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Global Thermonuclear War.


er, they'd just buy from someone else outside of OFEC.   Food can be grown most anywhere.
2/23/2005 10:47:47 AM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
Would it work?  What would the unintended consequences be?

What would happen in the scenario you propose is that certain major wheat producers, in particular Ukraine, would simply not join OFEC and sell the wheat for less. The same would hold for Argentine corn (which, BTW, is superior in quality to US #1 Yellow), Brazilian soyabeans, Korean rice, etc. The problem is that the food-producing and -exporting countries are just too numerous and globally spread out. Oil exports, by and large, are from a small geographic area tightly controlled by a small contingent.
2/23/2005 10:51:32 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
Global Thermonuclear War.

There's more truth to that than you may know. It's one thing to bomb a country as an act of war. It's something quite different to starve them. How do you think Saddam Hussein rose to power? He controlled the food supply. The most desperate villians throughout history, up to and including today, have used starvation as a tool to control the people. Look at what a small handful of zealots are doing in Darfur, in Somolia, in Eritrea, in Kashmir ... At the heart of every genocide, you will find starvation. Hey, it's a very cost-effective tool: it costs nothing to not feed your people.
2/23/2005 10:53:55 AM EDT
[#4]
That was my idea too.  The reason few countries can export is due to the low cost and economies of scale.  Driving the price up will only force others to enter the market.

Now on OPEC, they are becoming more irrelevant with the development of deepwater.  OPEC can no longer dictate the price by controling supply, they only limit their sales.  Russia, Equitoral Africa, Indonesia and GoM have the capacity to bridge any cutback in production.  

When was the last time you waited 3 hours for gasoline, only to be limited to 5 gallons?  
2/23/2005 10:55:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Didn't we try an oil for food type thing once before?
2/23/2005 11:09:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Why?

Because the media would say it's evil.  Evil to have a food cartel, but not evil to have an oil cartel.

Even I might agree, ...reluctantly

Right now the demand for oil is only getting greater with China on the rise.  It may be a good thing in the long run as it will make new power technology more attractive, especially if it is competitive.  
2/23/2005 11:29:27 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
certain major wheat producers, in particular Ukraine, would simply not join OFEC and sell the wheat for less. The same would hold for Argentine corn (which, BTW, is superior in quality to US #1 Yellow), Brazilian soyabeans, Korean rice, etc.



The idea behind any cartel is to maximize the profits on a commodity. Any country with significant agriculture output would make more money by joining the cartel. There wouldn't be much incentive in NOT joining.


The problem is that the food-producing and -exporting countries are just too numerous and globally spread out. Oil exports, by and large, are from a small geographic area tightly controlled by a small contingent.


Actually, many countries have some oil. However, as long as it's cheaper to import oil, there's no incentive to tap the local resources.

The analogy to food is a good one: America can produce and export food for less that it costs many countries to grow it locally.
2/23/2005 11:54:12 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Would it work?  What would the unintended consequences be?

What would happen in the scenario you propose is that certain major wheat producers, in particular Ukraine, would simply not join OFEC and sell the wheat for less. The same would hold for Argentine corn (which, BTW, is superior in quality to US #1 Yellow), Brazilian soyabeans, Korean rice, etc. The problem is that the food-producing and -exporting countries are just too numerous and globally spread out. Oil exports, by and large, are from a small geographic area tightly controlled by a small contingent.



How can you be SURE Ukraine, Brazil, Argentina would not join OFEC?  After all Venezuela joined OPEC.

 Considering the "global economy", it matters not how geographically dispersed the food exporting countries are.  If OPEC cuts export production to drive the price of oil up, then OFEC could cut the amount food available to be exported to OPEC countries.  Let those bastards eat their oil.

2/23/2005 11:59:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Hm... well I don't know if US companies would be able to participate...

Unless there was some sort of way that there was still a free market within the US borders, but the OFEC would be with other countries and the parts of US food corporations that deal internationally... Even then I don't know if it would work.

There is a lot of US government controls to prevent that from happening inside the US, I don't know how that would apply to US companies dealing with international customers.

I'm only an economics student, not an expert.
2/23/2005 12:21:00 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
Hm... well I don't know if US companies would be able to participate...

Unless there was some sort of way that there was still a free market within the US borders, but the OFEC would be with other countries and the parts of US food corporations that deal internationally... Even then I don't know if it would work.

There is a lot of US government controls to prevent that from happening inside the US, I don't know how that would apply to US companies dealing with international customers.

I'm only an economics student, not an expert.



Gasoline in Saudi Arabia is like what... 10 cents a gallon??  Of course THEY don't pay $50 a barrel for oil either.  Like wise, we wouldn't pay $5 for a loaf of bread here...  But they would.
2/23/2005 12:24:56 PM EDT
[#11]
The US is a net food importer, as of last year.
2/23/2005 2:19:33 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
The US is a net food importer, as of last year.



Only because we currently find it cheaper to do so.

And also because we export so much grain overseas.