Posted: 2/13/2005 7:08:52 AM EDT
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Well, I took a new hire at the PD out for qualifications yesterday. Overall, it was a pretty good day. The guy shot at least decently, except for the stage at 50'. He was having all sorts of trouble keeping all 6 rds in the center of mass on the target. I know I know, before anyone else says it, 50' is, or should be, a breeze. However, most Cops aren't gun guys and you work with what you have. I shot his weapon after he didn't pass the 3rd or 4th time, just to see if it was him or the weapon. I haven't run across a situation yet where it wasn't the shooter's fault. However, I could barely keep the shots in the center of mass, which never happens for me. Normally, I can keep all 6 shots in about 3-4" without trying really hard. We went downrange to check the target and I noticed quite a few of the shots were what appeared to be 2 shots right next to each other, touching. The trouble was, all 6 shots were accounted for and, if it was a case of 2 shots touching, I would have fired 12 rds, which I definately did not do. I put up a new target and did it again. The weapon is definately keyholing at least a few shots from 50'. We use reloads for practice. They're good quality stuff from a local commercial reloader. We've never had this problem with this ammo with any other weapon; Glocks, Berettas, S&W autos, even a Witness one time. You name it, it's probably been on the range at one time or another. This is the first time a pistol has done this. Of course, it's also the first 9mm USP that's been on our range. Anyone else had this problem? Is it common with USP's? We're going to try some different ammo next time and see if the problem re-occurs. I'm hoping it's just the ammo. The weapon shot fine at 21' and closer, it was just keyholing at 50'. The weapon is also fairly new and has less than 500 rds through it per the Officer that owns it. Wierd. Bub |
At least some of the shots are keyholing, as in striking the target going sideways. Usually means either an ammo problem or a shot-out barrel since the rifling isn't stabilizing the bullet enough to travel point-first as it should. Never had a problem with this ammo out of a LOT of other weapons, though. As I said, wierd. Bub |
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"Key-hole" is usually the product of an undercharged load or incomplete burn, the latter of which could be caused by an insufficient crimp, bad primers, wrong powder, old powder, etc. This could be further exacerbated by the exceptional seal (and drag) caused by polygonal rifling so it might only happen in Hk's and Glocks and not in groove-land rifled weapons. I'd get a box of quality new ammo through it before I passed judgment on it. As for the "High and Left" on the other USP, there was a batch of Hk's that came out with the wrong front post (using USP Compact front posts on USP Standards or vice versa IIRC) the drift to the left can be worked out by drift adjusting the front sight as it may have been knocked out of alignment in shipping or by someone at the store before it was sold. Also, I'd check it in a Ransom Rest before passing judgment as you may be jerking the trigger and anticipating recoil. (Just said to make sure, not calling you a lousy shot.  )
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whoops my bad, a little too early in the morning for me, i was thinking "so he is complaining about tight groups? why?" 
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Anybody know what year this happened? |
Mine does the same - I knocked the front site over to the point that it looks a little odd - now it just shoots a little high. I actually prefer this as I have a better sight pic for quick shots, but it does make it really tough for extremly tight groups. |
I'll check out the front sight. I do just fine with my Kimber, so it's the HK that has the problem. |
We stripped it and checked it out. No lead and it was clean, at least when we started . I only brought enough Silvertips for him to reload mags, not enough to shoot any. Next time we get to the range, I plan on having him shoot some Silvertips or other factory ammo. I have a few boxes of Federal 9BP that needs shot up, may take them to try. I was just wondering if anyone else had this problem, this is the first time I've ever shot a 9mm USP with this ammo. Didn't know if anyone else had experienced this. I have a feeling that it was the ammo, though. Wierd. As I stated above, we have put this ammo through a LOT of different 9mm pistols, this has never happened before. Thanks, all. I appreciate it.Bub |
| If the weapon is key holing it is cause by one of two things. The crown is either damaged or the barrel is lead fouled. Judging by what I am reading it sounds like it is fouled. I would suggest getting a Lewis deleading tool and running it down the barrel and see how much lead will come out and then inspect the crown. When a barrel is fouled this bad a brush will not get it out you will need the Lewis deleader or equivlent. |
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IS this unplated lead bullet ammo? Or possibly the real thin copperwash lead bullets? If it is it's the leading. HKs do not like lead ammo, can cause kabooms. Oh, and get rid of that crap ammo. Reloads are too expensive, liability wise to justify their initial low price. |
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We had a gun who used a p2000 and it shot low and to the left. We thought it was him b/c thats very common. NO matter who shot it , it went low and left. he spent over $800 on it. He called H&K and explained that he needed this to qualify in less than 2 weeks. They said it would take at least a month. The sheriff himself had to call the rep and yell at him to get him to look at it. Outcome was a bad barrel. They gave him a new one. He sold it and bought a GLOCK. J |
The bullets are undersized. You need to switch to factory new loaded ammo. |
I thought the same thing. I would think they would have had a case rupture or something noticable though. Make 100% sure it's a 9mm (check the barrel with it removed from the weapon)... if that's the case, I'd suspect lead fouling of the polygonal rifled barrel. |