Posted: 2/11/2005 11:58:20 AM EDT
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Can you lawfully make a citizens arrest? My GF just got finished with her CCW course and they told the class that you can't make a citizens arrest under any circumstances. I thought you could if you witness a felony? www.constitution.org/grossack/arrest.htm |
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He who chooses to play Citizen Cop does so at his own peril. Cops are trained in, and are expected to, protect our civil rights - quit laughing it's true. How much training do you have in protecting someone elses' civil rights? How many associations or unions do you belong to that keep hundreds of lawyers on tap ready to defend you when you make a mistake and violate someone's rights? |
True with regards to felonies. Generally, nobody including Cops can make a misdemeanor arrest without a warrant. There are exceptions that apply to LE under certain situations. Those situations vary from state to state. |
I didn't know if they commited a felony if that would constitute holding them at gunpoint. Probably not a good idea |
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Okay, hypothetical: burgular is in your home at o-dark-thirty and you get the drop on him with your handgun. He appears unarmed and doesn't threaten you. Can you hold him at gunpoint while the missus calls the cops or do you have to let him walk out your front door? ETA: obviously if he turns his back on you and proceeds to walk out the front door I'M not going to shoot but if he listens to you and stays put, are you in any trouble? And please don't answer S.S.S. |
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Be aware we are dealing with STATE level laws here in many cases, guys. Also, even when cops are completely in the right, their departments get sued. I doubt many of us have deeper pockets than most municipalities or county governments. In most states, if you catch some fucker committing a crime, you have every right to detain him, though. Can we attach sounds here? Barney would be so very appropriate. |
When I took the CCW class that scenario was used as an example. In NC you must let the perp go. |
If a bogie is in my house, he is getting blasted. Period. If he wanted to surrender, he would have stayed outside. The police can show up to draw a chalk outline. |
Say the perp is breaking into a car. You dont know who's car it is, but you decide to play rambo and yell "FREEZE SUCKA" with your gun drawn fresh out of your CHL class. Now this guy turns around and has a tire iron in his hand and keeps walking at a steady pace towards you. Not at a fast pace but steady he is about 30 ft and closing and its dark. You yell for him to stop but he does not, your gun is already drawn because well you decided to play hero and save someones car. Now the perp is closing fast what would you do? If i could run away I would, but I would not have drawn my gun, nor cared about someone else's car to the point of doing anything other than calling the police. For all we know its some Kerry lover and If i saw a kerry sticker i wouldnt even bother. BUT because you decided to play hero and have not had training, you shoot the perp in the leg to wound him. You get arrested because the guy was looking for a tire iron to change his flat. He was walking toward you because he was deaf and trying to understand what you were saying to him. Now your doing time in jail and shot an innocent man because you decided to play hero. You have lost your house, car and job to pay for lawyer fees. |
| In tennesse it is lawfull to make a Citizens arrest however you can not pull your weapon while doing so, and you must actually witness a felony crime happen. I think they would make and exception if somebody pulls a weapon and tries to rob you and you use your ccw to stop him. |
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www.constitution.org/grossack/arrest.htm In Part : A strong argument can be made that the right to make a citizen's arrest is a constitutionally protected right under the Ninth Amendment as its impact includes the individual's natural right to self preservation and the defense of the others. Indeed, the laws of citizens arrest appear to be predicated upon the effectiveness of the Second Amendment. Simply put, without firepower, people are less likely going to be able to make a citizen's arrest. A random sampling of the various states as well as the District of Columbia indicates that a citizen's arrest is valid when a public offense was committed in the presence of the arresting private citizen or when the arresting private citizen has a reasonable belief that the suspect has committed a felony, whether or not in the presence of the arresting citizen. Kentucky law holds that a person witnessing a felony must take affirmative steps to prevent it, if possible. (See Gill v. Commonwealth, 235 KY 351 (1930.) Indeed, Kentucky citizens are permitted to kill fleeing felons while making a citizen's arrest (Kentucky Criminal Code § 37; S 43, §44.) In checking facts, I have not found the above cited codification Indeed, I did find these in the KY Revised Statutes: 431.025 Notice of intention to arrest -- Act of arrest -- Force. (1) The person making an arrest shall inform the person about to be arrested of the intention to arrest him, and of the offense for which he is being arrested. (2) An arrest is made by placing the person being arrested in restraint, or by his submission to the custody of the person making the arrest. The submission shall be in the actual presence of the arrester. (3) No unnecessary force or violence shall be used in making an arrest. History: Created 1962 Ky. Acts ch. 234, sec. 35. And: 431.005 Arrest by peace officers -- By private persons. (5) A private person may make an arrest when a felony has been committed in fact and he has probable cause to believe that the person being arrested has committed it. Please excuse the unverified post. Just goes to show that it pays to check shit you read on the internet! David C. Grossack, Constitutional Attorney of Boston may want to check his facts. Sua Sponte |
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InTX if you witness a felony you can arrest (some lesser crimes too) you have to immediately call the police to take custody Don't know about your state If you are looking for clarification\suggestions Here is mine, do not take the chance unless there are extreme conditions YOU WILL GO TO JAIL IF YOU DO NOT DO EVERYTHING CORRECTLY 
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Citizens arrest is defined by state code(every state is different)...in OK (and I hate that fucking place with a passion). See Title 22 O.S. 1971, § 202 "Arrest by a private person -- A private person may arrest another: "1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence. "2. When the person has committed a felony, although not in his presence. "3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable cause for believing the person to have committed it." But you have to use "Reasonable Force" given the facts and curcumstances known to the citizen at the time of the arrest in that RPSSC would make the same decision. i.e. you cant pull the jammy just because granny is jaywalking. Ohh by the way "FUCK OK." Utah is similar. See UCA 77-7-3 |
I love that show and episode!! And Barney arrested himself. |
Thats not true either. In Texas there are 3 conditions a non-LEO can make an arrest. When the crime is committed in your presence or view, and it is one classified as a Felony or Breach of the Peace. The other is to prevent the consequences of theft. And in Texas it is called unlawful restraint to make an arrest unlawfully. It can be kidnapping too. |
That is justifiable under Texas Law. |
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PLEASE READ MY EDITED EARLIER POST! THE ARTICLE I CITED IS BUNK!!hock.gif Sua Sponte |
Great question Any attorneys\cops that will give an opinion\clarification? |
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In most states, yes if you can is about as best as I can put it. You don't have the right to shoot someone to protect private property and only under threat of severe bodily harm to you or someone else, most states. That being said, if they want to leave, there isn't much you can do legally. Now touching them, holding down/cuffing, and even though justified by a following arrest, you still leave yourself open to civil lawsuit. For example and this is used in many CCW classes, a girl runs up clothes torn and crying rape, you confront the chaser, demand he halt, he does but then turns and walks away, there isn't a damn thing you can do legally to stop him without facing prosecution. Another example, you catch a thief using a shim to break into your car, you pull your weapon and order him to stop, if he approaches you you can shoot him, if he deiced to walk away shooting you the bird, you can't. Hell, you can't even legally stop a bank robber unless he points the gun at you, technically. It really sucks if you think about it enough. All that being said, I have detained a minimum of two people in my life till the cops showed up both at gun point, one for theft and another for beating a woman. BTW, never wise to be standing there with a gun in your hand when the law shows up. Home invasion is a totally different topic and depends highly onthe laws in your state. Tj |
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My take is this: In our CCW clas swe were told that if we ever pulled our weapon, several things would happen. First, regardless of outcome, you would be cuffed and detained until officers could sort it out. second, if you used your weapon, you would almost definitely be arrested until evidence or statement cleared you of murder. Third, justified or not you WILL end up in court when the 'victim' or his family sues you. Adding a He-said-she-said to all that in order to make a citizen's arrest is more than I personally am willing to expose myself to liability of. I think it's probably better to hold a felon at gunpoint than to attempt to arrest them. Let the police do their jobs and take the trash out for you. Dave |
In Texas you can make an arrest for a felony, in this 1st case, burglary. You are allowed to use force to make an arrest. Threatening to use deadly force by the production of a handgun does NOT constitute the use of deadly force. Therefore, you may hold a person you have arrested for a felony at gunpoint. §9.04. Threats as justifiable force. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force. |
sure....you can....right before you go to prison. Having a CCW doesnt make someone LE....a CCW is carried for one reason only, defense of the individual carrying it. Being a good samaritan will get you locked up. the ONLY time a CCW should EVER be displayed is during the act of shooting someone....anything else is a crime. Brandishing laws are vague, and since a great deal of the public its accustomed to seeing folks pointing weapons at other folks, just what do you think witnesses will tell the police when they show up? Making a citizens arrest is ridiculous, unless you are witnessing the act of a felony crime in progress.....and without proper training, engaging a violent criminal is probably a very stupid idea. CCW courses teach a person how to shoot, when to shoot, and about a million reason why NOT to shoot.....they teach nothing about engaging a person that isnt a direct threat to you. Bottom line...if you fear for your life (not injury, but actually sense that you are about to be killed)...deploy your weapon and empty it into the threat. Any other circumstance will result in many hours of questioning down at the station. Only the guys with the badge get to point guns at people that they have no immediate intention of shooting.....civilians dont have that luxary. |
Yep, that's the only time I've ever done it. Barney should have known better than to make that U-turn. |
This is not totally correct. According to the TCA a citizen can use all necessary force to make an arrest for a misdemeanor or felony if commited in your presence and the perp resists arrest. NOW if you make said arrest and the person is found not guilty guess who gets sued. Police have qualified immunity for arrests when they have verifible probable cause. I DO NOT RECOMMEND CITIZEN ARRESTS, there are too many headaches involved. |
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Well, if I am in a store and see a kid pocketing a candy bar, I probably won't draw my weapon and tell him to get on the ground... If my neighbor tells me he lied on his tax return, which is a felony, I'm not going to draw my weapon and tell him to get on the ground either... There are other ways of dealing with stuff like that... That said, here in Arizona, you don't have to retreat if you see certain crimes going down. For instance, kidnapping, rape, child molestation, murder, aggrivated assault, armed robbery, and some others. You can cap them right there...But, you BETTER know what's going on before you draw your weapon! Some couple might be a bit loud in the park when they're doing the nasty and you think he's raping her and you go cap him... Bad ju-ju..  My philosophy is, if I see a weapon and it's pointed at me or someone else, they're going to see my weapon. If someone is beating the hell out of me or someone else, they're going to see my weapon. I will draw my weapon if I am in fear of my life or the loss of a limb (Or the life of another). Remember also, I'm nobody's hero...I see someone with a gun holding up a store clerk and I'm out pumping gas, I'm going to call the cops..I'm not running inside and playing rambo and I'm not stopping him as he flees..I'm going to be the best witness I can... Some guys think of all kinds of scenarios when they get their CCW (CHL in some states)..That can be good, but it can also go too far... Be realistic. Be aware of your surroundings and the situation. Don't be too eager to draw your weapon. Remember, your adreneline is pumping, bad guy's adreneline is pumping, and that's when stuff can turn bad real quick. Errors are made and once you pull that trigger, you can't bring that bullet back... Just my opinion... Az_Redneck CCW Instructor - Arizona |
Perhaps in your state, but that is flat not true in Texas. |
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I wouldn't!!!!! Why? We live in a Litigous society, if you a COp gets sued for a Faulty Arrest the town backs him up insurance wise and usually Legal representative wise!! If YOU make a faulty arrest as a citizen , All YOUR HOUSE, CAR, GUNS ETC. ARE BELONG TO THEM!!!! So yes , Virginia there is citizens arrest, there are aslo lawyers who will see to it you never own anything in your own name again!!!!! |
I agree However, I would like to see more discussion on this topic, if possible I may be placed in a position where I am forced to decide whether to do it or not Some of the posts have brought up information I had not previously considered Thank You
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