Posted: 1/29/2005 11:37:48 AM EDT
| Say I have a friend who is 17. Would it be considered a Straw Purchase if he gave me the money, I purchased the handgun, and gave it to him when he is 18 in a few months? |
You can posess a handgun at 16 in AK if a parent gives it to you. It is a felony however to knowingly sell someone a handgun if they are not 18. I'm 18 so I was going to buy it and give it to him when he turns 18. The only thing that has to do with 21 is an FFL can only sell a handgun to someone 21. If an FFL sells someone under 21 a handgun, the person who bought it has broken no law. Only the FFL. |
Before I respond to your question, I need to know a few things about your scenario: 1. Are you, at 19, legally allowed to purchase a handgun in your state? 2. Are you, at 19, legally allowed to possess a handgun in your state? 3. Are you otherwise disqualified from purchasing or possessing a handgun in your state? |
I can legally possess a handgun. I am no DQ'ed for any reasons. As for buying, I can purchase a handgun through private sale but not from a dealer (Fed. Law of 21). |
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He would give me the money, and I would buy the handgun and be in complete posession of it until he turns 18 and can legally own it. I have a hard time seeing how this is a straw purchase. He would have NOTHING disqualifying him from owning a handgun when he is 18. |
Gifts are exempt only for immediate members of the family; for example, husband to wife, brother/sister to brother/sister, father/mother to son/daughter. However, uncle/aunt to nephew/neice is verboten. I think this would qualify as a straw sale, especially because you just posted it on the 'net. |
Then, based upon your information, the transaction you descibed would NOT be a straw purchase. A straw purchase is defined as someone buying a firearm for a disqualified person (felon, etc.), not just any other person. |
Wouldn't I be disqualified because I can't legally buy a handgun from a dealer? Simply because of my age that is. |
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If it is legal for him to posess, then suggest this to him: He gives you the money and you purchase the handgun. You store the handgun, and let him use it when he wants to (if legal for him to posess) then when he becomes "of age" you two go to the gun store and transfer it to him. |
But you can buy from a private party or accept one as a gift from a private party, according to the information that you gave me. You are not breaking any laws, and neither is the purchaser, provided you are not a convicted felon, etc...disqualified means you cannot purchase a firearm even though you are of legal age, because of a felony conviction, mental incompetence, etc... |
Sounds good.  I just wonder how many gun shops agree.
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I havn't done this yet, I just want to be sure of the legality of it. My friend gives me $500. It ends there. I am completely legal to purchase a handgun from a private individual. I take said $500 and purchase Glock 30 from individual (not an FFL) I now legally own a Glock 30. My friend is now 18 and I sell Glock 30 to him for say $10. He now legally owns a Glock 30. The only thing I can see is that the money came from him. If this is a problem, what if I sold him say, my bike for $500? This can't be illegal, can it? |
| I would consider it a straw as your friend is disqualified because of age. You are not a parent, just a friend. Why would take the chance to mess up your ability to own guns by "helping" a friend? If something ever happened, even later, a timeline could be used to screw you over. Don't think your friend or his lawyer wouldn't turn you to get off. Besides it it was legal and his parents OKed it wouldn't they get it for him? Whats wrong with the scenario? |
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My guidelines here: 'Prove to me that what I propose is illegal'. If a law is written with a bad-faith intent to disrupt anything permitted under the 2nd Amendment, I feel obligated only to the minimum degree. Having said that, I don't associate with children or criminals, so the point is moot. |
It doesn't matter that he is disqualfied because of age because he wouldn't be in posession of the handgun until he is qualified to own it. |
Here you go...a neat little cartoon from the BATF...remember that the points they make are FEDERAL law...the ability for private parties to buy and sell firearms is generally regulated by STATE law...YMMV...  |
| To make sure you don't get caught, make sure to get some tips here www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=318789. |
there is no paperwork to fill out in a private sale is there? |
here is some more info you may need  www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=123&t=317141 |
Hahaha! 
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Sounds like a straw purchase to me - the INTENT here appears to be to circumvent a law that prohibits him from buying one himself. None of any "I'm buying a ballcap for $500" shananigans will change that. If he is legally allowed to OWN a firearm when he is 18, but cannot legally BUY one - then why do his parents not buy it for him ???? Also - what's the hurry in buying it BEFORE he turns 18 ? |
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Yes it is illegal. What you have described is exactly what a straw purchase is. You can purchase a firearm as gift for anyone as you are the actual purchaser. If someone gives you money to purchase a firearm for them then you are not the actual purchaser. A straw purchase occurs when you falsely state on the 4473 that you are the actual purchaser. A straw purchase has nothing to do with whether the other party is a prohibited person or not. If you transfer the firearm to a prohibited person that is a separate charge. |
Yes, it is an illegal straw purchase, if the purchase is made from a dealer and a 4473 is filled out. If the purchase is made from a private party, no 4473 is filled out, so it is not illegal. A straw purchase, per se, is not illegal. The violation of the law involves giving false information on the 4473. Here is the answer directly from the BATF web site: 15. "STRAW PURCHASES" Questions have arisen concerning the lawfulness of firearms purchases from licensees by persons who use "straw purchasers" (another person) to acquire the firearms. Specifically, the actual buyer uses the straw purchaser to execute the Form 4473 purporting to show that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser of the firearm. In some instances, a straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm. That is to say, the actual purchaser is a felon or is within one of the other prohibited categories of persons who may not lawfully acquire firearms or is a resident of a State other than that in which the licensee's business premises is located. Because of his or her disability, the person uses a straw purchaser who is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm from the licensee. In other instances, neither the straw purchaser nor the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm. In both instances, the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser's residence address and date of birth. The actual purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser to acquire a firearm has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of the false statements. The licensee selling the firearm under these circumstances also violates Federal law if the licensee is aware of the false statements on the form. It is immaterial that the actual purchaser and the straw purchaser are residents of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, are not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, and could have lawfully purchased firearms from the licensee. This article does not purport to cover sales to persons who purchase firearms with the intent of making gifts of such firearms to other persons. In instances such as this, the person making the purchase is indeed the true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. The use of gift certificates would also not fall within the category of straw purchases. The person redeeming the gift certificate would be the actual purchaser of the firearm and would be properly reflected as such in the dealer's records. |
He would be buying the gun for someone who is disqualified due to age. Why risk it? His friend can wait. Straw purchase. |
But that would mean the friend would have to get the gun for nothing, if it is a gift. |
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This would not only be a straw purchase, but also it would in violation of the Youth Handgun Safety Act (ATF I 5300.2 (7-98). I get customers that ask this sort of stuff all the time. It used to be that state law dictated posession until the Youth handgun safety act was imposed. No one under the age of 18 is to posess a handgun under federal law. Even in Alaska.
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| For the last time whether the third party is eligible to purchase a firearm or not is not a requirement of a straw purchase. You are charged with making a false statement on the 4473 when you state that you are the actual purchaser when in fact you are not. You can be arrested, prosecuted and convicted for making the "straw" purchase even if all parties can legally purchase and possess firearms under federal law. |
There are several exceptions under federal law for someone under the age of 18 to possess a handgun. * United States Code o TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE + PART I - CRIMES # CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS Section 922. Unlawful acts (a) It shall be unlawful - .............................................. (x)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile - (A) a handgun; or (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun. (2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess - (A) a handgun; or (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun. (3) This subsection does not apply to - (A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile - (i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun; (ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except - (I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor; or (II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile's parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm; (iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile's possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and (iv) in accordance with State and local law; (B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with a handgun in the line of duty; (C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile; or (D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which the juvenile is an invited guest. (4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferred to a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is not in violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanent confiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenile subsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile, but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun or ammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposes of investigation or prosecution. (5) For purposes of this subsection, the term ''juvenile'' means a person who is less than 18 years of age. |