[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Fighting a speeding ticket in Mass. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/26/2005 6:38:54 AM EDT
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Hey Guys, Got a friend who picked up a substantial speeding ticket in Mass, upon examining the ticket after he got home the cop wrote down the wrong color of his truck, different from what is written on the registration, and also wrote down the wrong birthdate for my friend. SO my question is ---does he need to pay this, technically with the wrong birthdate the ticket represents someone other than my friend----what are your thoughts? --sgw |
FWIW: I didn't mean bitch about the mistakes. I just meant go to the court and cry poverty and usually they'll reduce it just to make you go away and pay it.  |
Funny you mention that b/c in RI they air traffic court on the local cable station. (and its actually funny to watch the BS excuses people come up with). If the Mass judges are anything like the ones in RI, just have your buddy borrow someones baby and bring it to court. He'll get off with a warning |
| Doesn't make a bit of difference. Streetlights can make a car look different than daylight. I once had two cars stopped on the freeway. I reversed some of the info on the tickets, and the two whiney snots thought that because of this, they could get the tickets dismissed. The judge laughed, and found them guilty. Regarding out of state tickets..Some states have violator compact agreements. So, if your state of residence has one with the state where you got the ticket, YOUR state will suspend your license. Pay the ticket, and slow down... |
| It's easy enough to amend the ticket... problem solved. Let's imagine that the judge dismisses the charge outright. No problem, ticket gets refiled correctly and the defendant gets to come back yet again. In other words, errors not related to the substance of the charge are of little or no consequence. |
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I got a ticket in Rhode Island, and due to a clerical error, RI suspended my license there (I didn't know this), and they sent a notice to MASS, and they were going to suspend my license there if I didn't take care of things in RI. I wasn't living in RI at the time. So I had to take a day out of work to get it taken care of. Didn't have to pay a dime, though. So, Mass and RI do have an agreement as far as license suspension. If you appear in court, and don't have any moving violations on your record, usually they'll let you off the first time with a warning. But you have to take a day out of work to do this. |
If it were to go to court the prosecution can probably amend any basic info on the ticket that was written in error, except if the officer didn't sign the ticket. At least that's how it works here. |
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Here we go again. First off never pay a ticket because it is a crime perpetrated on the driving public. If exceeding the posted speed were dangerous then the police would not do it. If the posted speed were reasonable based on Federal code detailed in the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices then you most likely would not be speeding. Since most locations take Federal money they are required to abide by the Federal regulations. Few do but don’t try to argue with a Traffic Court Judge on this issue, as he will not care a whit. Go to the National Motorist Association (NMA) web site and read up on the ticket process and make an informed choice concerning your speeding ticket. On two occasions in the last six years my wife got a speeding ticket. Both times she prepared her defense and had both thrown out by very unfriendly traffic court judges. Every location is different and what may work in one jurisdiction make not work in another. Research the issues with the material from the NMA, be prepared, and then show up in court. Make sure you let everyone know you are there on principle that way they know you may be willing to pay out a lot of money and make their court time exceed the cost of collecting the ticket. It’s all about money and your role is to pay. The wrong information on the ticket may result in it being thrown out but cross - examining the police officer is the most fun you can have. Just remind him he “is under oath”. Both times they came unglued on the stand and it was down hill for them after that. Lastly, get the book Beat Your Ticket by David Brown; Nolo Press ISBN: 0-87337-465-7. After all that you will be ready to win in court. Good Luck. |
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It's been 10+ years since I've had to do this, so I don't know if any Mass. rules of court have changed, but... In MA when you challenge a ticket you are scheduled a hearing with the clerk of the court. At that hearing you and the citing officer must appear before the clerk. By law it must be the citing officer, not a stand-in. The clerk hears each side of the story and then either finds you "responsible" or "not responsible". If you are found not responsible you walk. If you are found responsible you can pay at that time, or request a hearing before a judge. Here's the trick: many times the citing officer does not show. If he's a no-show the clerk must find you automatically not-responsible: it's THE LAW. Or at least it was. You've got a good shot at this. This is especially true if you throw in a few requests for continuance of the hearing. Depending on which court the first hearing date could be 6 months out. I did this in busy Lowell and with one continuance the date was almost a year after the ticket was issued. Every clerk has been through this before, when I showed and the officer didn't he didn't even bat an eye. Ticket cancelled! A friend of mine did this in Billerica court and the clerk was an idiot. The officer didn't show and the clerk wouldn't issue the finding of "not responsible" so my friend took it before a judge. At that hearing the Billerica PD sent a shift Sgt not the citing officer. My friend quoted chapter and verse out of the "Mass. Rules of Court". The judge was pissed--at the PD! Ticket dismissed. Get yourself a copy of the "Mass. Rules of Court" and see if the above still holds. |
+1 If you were speeding and got a ticket then pay the ticket. Be a man and don't try to shirk out of the ticket if you were speeding, the limit was posted, blah blah blah. I wish more people took responsibility for their actions. I see less and less of it every day. |
 ....do not listen to men whom play w/dolls and are @ar15.com all day instead of working j/k.....Go to court on the issue period,bringing a baby always helps. FWIW.....since 99......if you owe money in MOST states reguarding auto fines other states will re-voke/not re-instate your license if you do not PAY UP! BEeeeeeeLieve me!
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Ahh, now I recognize the rationale. Not meant to offend sgtar15, just pointing out that the basis of that argument is real easy to apply in areas where you're not interested in having it apply. |
Your logic is flawed. The "speeder" is a human who decided to speed, where-as the gun is an inanimate object. |
Change it to "gun-nuts", "pro-gun people", "doctors", whatever you want. It really doesn't matter what you substitute. The rationale is still the same, which is based on the idea of using law to preempt harm rather than punishing actual harm caused. Laws based on preemption are making a BIG assumption that the Guv knows what's best for you. It's a very fine line between what's in the public's best interest and what's in the Guv's best interest. |
It is the people best interest that you not speed. Once you speed the violation has already occurred. Their are many pre-emptive laws on the books. It is illegal for me to plan to kill someone. If I was planning to kill you would you want the cops to stop me as I come to your house or should they just wait till I actually kill you? The fact is that you don't want to take responsibility for your actions. If you were responsible you wouldn't be speeding to begin with because you would have respect for the law. SGtar15 |
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I seem to recall at my first speeding hearing in MA meeting with a Magistrate and a representative from the Town's Police Dept. They package up all of "that town's" tickets together for that day, and then a single rep from the police dept reads through the report for each person. The rep from the Police Department basically read the report that the officer gave. I told my side of the story, and the magistrate basically said "I'll reduce the fine to half, you can pay it or we can schedule a hearing with a judge." I chose option A, seeing as the ticket was $150, so it was cheaper to pay the $75 dollars then to take another day off work. The only people I saw walk with nothing were instances where the officer didn't write enough information on the report. |
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Was the speed limit posted legally according to state law and federal regulations as, for example, is outlined in the Manual for Uniform Traffic Control Devices? Is there any up-to-date engineering documentation available (must be on file with state or local agency) to prove above? Was the radar unit calibrated properly according to standard protocol? Was the radar unit calibrated with a certified tuning fork? Is the certification of the tuning fork up-to-date and available? Without answers to these questions (and others), we don't know if he was legally speeding or not. These are legitimate questions to take to court. No, misprints on the ticket will not suffice in getting him out of a ticket, but a failure to follow the law on the above items may (depending on the judge). Now, if the prosecutor/officer can answer all of the appropriate questions properly and provide the necessary documentation, then by all means he should pay the ticket. Needless to say, I don't agree with this attitude of "just pay it 'cause you did it". If you exhaust the appropriate legal means and they still have enough evidence to show that you did it, fine, pay up, but to me, just because you got a ticket is not sufficient enough to just give in. |
That only works if you are a minority and illegally in the US. You cannot speak any english in court. |
If the person is innocent, and did not knowingly speed - then you are correct. If the person is guilty, and knowingly broke the law, what you suggest is nothing but trying to weasel out of personal accountability. I've only gotten one speeding ticket in the 15 years I've been driving in the U.S. - and I have no doubt that I could have "gotten out" of paying it. But I KNEW that I was speeding, and to me, that's the only thing that mattered. I CHOSE to break the law, and so I took my damn medicine and paid the higher insurance premiums. This country is based on being a county of laws - but seems to increasingly be turning into a country of weasels and whiners, and most people today seem to want to AVOID personal responsibility. (Not a specific dig at you, but a general lament about the state of affairs). Than again - maybe I'm just a grumpy old fart
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This may have changed. I would not count on the actual officer having to be there anymore. Be interesting to find out. Most show up, it's often overtime and easy overtime. MA tickets used to take 6-9months, that was 15 years ago. Depending on the court, it could be way sooner now. BTW if the posters frined doesn't pay the ticket or request a hearing, he will not have a license for very long. He will be revoked/suspended as most states have a pact now. RI, MA, NH, CT etc. If he blows it off, he will risk jail for operating after suspension. Over a ticket??? Not worth it. |
Kind of figured that, most states now go that route. |
Yes and make sure to hire a very expensive traffic lawyer, get a few continuences, hire a traffic engineer as an expert witness, bring a baby to court, and appeal it to the Judge level. 5 days off work and $2,500 later, you might get out of the $150 ticket. Seriously, If he was speeding and the officer wrote down the wrong color of his truck, is he now off the hook???? How about responsibility people. |
No shit. Or blame the cop......And then this cop came out of nowhere, INVADING MY PRIVACY, Your Honor! The nerve of that officer! There I was driving along the Mass Pike keeping up with the flow of traffic, and this cop came out of nowhere, SINGLED ME OUT and INVADED MY PRIVACY as I sat there with my private thoughts. All kidding aside, MA sucks! |
Most states belong to the "Non-Resident Violator's Compact," and share traffic information with each other via this agreement. This "Compact" also allows visitors from another state to sign a "promise to comply" for most traffic violations rather than post bail. I don't have the list in front of me, but I'm pretty sure California and Wisconsin are the only states which are not members of the compact. |
| Calibate the radar ?????i'd love to have you try to cross examine me on the stand. You " Officer, did you calabrate the radar before and after the citation?" Me, "Nope," i've never done this. You, "what do you mean, you've never calabrated the radar?" Me, "nope, never. I can only CHECK the calabration with the forks." You lose... |
| Callibration and certification of the radar unit used to be a big deal in Mo. Kustom Electronics and other manufacturers would make yearly visits to departments to check and certify units as accurate, then provide documentation stating this. Also we all had to attend classes on the proper operation of the units for certification to use them. It wasn't unusual for small departments to allow certification dates to lapse or unqualified personnel to operate radar units. |
I agree, but..... I'm from MA, and have, ummm....dealt with our boys in blue in traffic court many a time in pre-computerized, pre-Intenet days, where the states weren't connected by traffic fine/violation networks*, and this might work, if you have a spotless record, but if you have prior traffic offenses anywhere nowadays, you are toast. They will find it. IMO- pay up, unless you are clean, and willing to undergo a crapshoot with consequences, should you fail- then the loss of $ from work might be offset by the amount on the ticket and the insurance surcharges, which can be whopping big around here. In my youth, my insurance surcharges exceeded the cost of my insurance policy!   On the other hand...... I've sat in MA traffic court, before, too, and listened to the unbelievable BS stories from drivers. Every excuse imaginable. And naturally, every one of them thinks he's Clarence Darrow, only to still have to pay the fine, even after all that rigamarole. The judges aren't usually impressed anymore by citizens fighting for their "rights" as drivers in a courtroom.  There is no "right" to drive a car on a public road, only privileges granted by the state. You mess up, it's your fault, unless some unbelievably glaring error is found to have been committed by the officer. Mixing up the color of a car is not one of them.  Urban/suburban NE people think the world owes them a living, and that the system should make exceptions for them, esp. in traffic court..... Me? I drive like a grandmother now. I haven't had a speeding ticket since 1989. Don't speed, you won't get speeding tickets. * Last year I got nabbed and lost my license (on paper) because I didn't pay a fine for a speeding ticket in Vermont (Rte 91) from 1975!!!! 1975!  I'd forgot all about it. They sent the info to the MA RMV, and I had to pay the fine and extra fees to Montpelier just to get my MA license reinstated! So- the second moral is- they will get you, eventually, anywhere, if you mess up in traffic and get a ticket, since the system of sharing info is spreading from state to state. |
For a Dane, yes, but for me, heaven. Hot womenz, wonderful airplane, army and navy museums. Everybody speaks English (better than I do) and is tickled pink when I try to speak (some ) Swedish. The winters aren't any worse than what I've been getting in NE. Guns everywhere, and you can own full-auto. You got me dead to rights, guv'nor- when's my ship to Stockholm come in??? 
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