[ARCHIVED THREAD] - China... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/21/2004 2:28:39 PM EDT
...Them Chinese make me nervous. 
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The only countries that have the balls to stand up to anybody are in Iraq now. I would not count on the rest of our so called Allies coming to our help. They would be dancing in the streets that someone taught us a lesson. |
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Capitalism has formed a foundation in China. China is no longer a worry. Corporate Earth will notify Taiwan that business will move to the mainland if they dont shut up about independence. I have no loyalty to either. If China wants Taiwan, it aint my business. China is no longer a worry. Capitalism has prevailed once again! |
I don't think so. There is no oil mafia there yet. A few crews definetly but nothing ingraned. There is still hope for internal combustion alternatives to take root in China. We'll see. |
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Right now to 15 years, China cannot make a US invasion. No fucking way. We, can on the other hand make an invasion on Cho=ina, but it will be a total slaughter for us unless we have 60% of the rest of the world on out side with troop's from them on the ground with us. I have been to PRC, been to Military installations and talked with many ex and active PRC troops. They have no problem with killing their own people just to make a point. Fighting the Chinese on thie turf would be worse than 1,000 Faluhja's. |
M4, you make several good points. My fear is that they will try to invade the United States. As it is right now, they control either end of the Pamama Canal. There are numerous illegal Chinese immigrants streaming across our boarders daily. It could get pretty scary... Bigfeet |
You are off your rocker. ETA: My fear isn't necessarily of China invading the US militarily. The Seas and commer are where it's at. They control the Panama canal, they are poking Tiawan, they are developing their sub forces and naval projection capabilities as we type. The GWOT moved China from the front page but therey're still there. Anybody remember Hainan Island? |
Are you saying capitalism has not prevailed in China? Or, just that I'm off my rocker? 
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. now just the smell of it makes me want to puke
China is not gearing up to go to war with any other country but the US. |
At least in the short-term. There will be no war because most of the factories in the PRC are own by Taiwan companies. Besides where is Wall-Mart, Target, HOme Depot etc going to get their merchandise. More than 3/4 of Wall-Mart Suppliers are in the PRC. Most of the computers PC boards are from the PRC. |
"Get both"  Capitalism has taken root in China, however it's blended with Communist rule. Only time will tell which wins out. |
Yup, biggest guy on the block is US. |
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Not this again. I have been to China countless times. China is deeply connected to our economy and currency. The government leaders are not so stupid to throw away stability for a shooting war. Human life may be cheap there, but remember they have +3 billion people to keep under control. They are at economic war with us. Get used to that idea. |
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The issue isn't china, the issue is greater eurasia. The "former" communist block, and their client states around the world, are still a credible threat to the US. Warfare is not simply ground troops and air power, it is propaganda, public opinion, economic strategy, and diplomacy. Currently China is waging economic warfare on the US, there have been many official statements saying as much. China has no need of our "money", they're using our capital to build their industrial base and commodity stocks, while contributing to the decline of our own. When they feel that strategem has played out they'll have no problem finding demand sufficient to utilize that undustrial capacity, even without the obvious military applications China has an enormous untapped domestic market for its goods, and local trading partners who'd be more than happy to exchange energy for manufactured goods if the petrodollar doesn't offer an attractive return. |
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I shared a table with a merchant ship captain at the local rural burger joint and bar in my area. He makes three or four round trips to Asia a year. The rest of the time he spends at home, having burgers and beer at the local burger joint apparently… Anyway, I asked him about the Chinese and the Panama Canal. He says they control both sides of the canal. He also believes war with China in imminent in the next 15 years. |
On the mone ymy man. |
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The world today seems absolutley crackers, With nuclear bombs to blow us all sky high. There's fools and idiots sitting on the trigger. It's depressing, and it's senseless, and that's why... (singing) I like chinese, I like chinese, They only come up to you knees, Yet they're always friendly and they're ready to to please. I like chinese, I like chinese, There's nine hundred million of them in the world today, You'd better learn to like them, that's what I say. I like chinese, I like chinese, They come from a long way overseas, But they're cute, and they're cuddly, and they're ready to please. I like chinese food, The waiters never are rude, Think the many things they've done to impress, There's maoism, taoism, eging and chess. I like chinese, I like chinese, I like their tiny little trees, Their zen, their ping-pong, their ying and yang-eze. I like chinese thought, The wisdom that Confusious taught, If Darwin is anything to shout about, The chinese will survive us all without any doubt. So, I like chinese, I like chinese, They only come up to you knees, Yet they're wise, and they're witty, and they're ready to please Wo, I chumba run, Wo, I chumba run, Wo, I chumba run, Ne hamma, Ne hamma, Ne hamma chi chen. I like chinese, I like chinese, They're food is guaranteed to please, A fourteen, a seven, a nine and li-chese I like chinese, I like chinese, I like their tiny little trees, Their zen, their ping-pong, their yin and yang-eze I like chinese, I like chinese, |
| I just got back from Harbin, China about 2 days ago. I was installing a machine in a 'commerical aircraft' factory. When I got there it was Chinese Z9D helicopters with 23 mm cannons and export controlled FLIRs mounted to them. I wanted to post about it while I was there but a Chinese prison sucks I hear. The French sold them anything they wanted to buy. The Chinese military power is massive- I would not want to tangle with them or the 200 milllion trained troops they have. |
Two key points there. The correctness of the first determines whether there will be a war in the near future. The second is why China is not a long-term threat. |
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A lot of people in this thread see the threat for what it is, but as usual there are plenty of misconceptions displayed by others. 1) The only kind of capitalism that has "taken hold" in China is state capitalism. Money-making ventures for the purposes of enriching the ChiComm gov't and thereby building/improving the ChiComm war machine. 2) The vast majority of really big businesses in China are KNOWN to be run by out-of-uniform senior military officers. Just because he's wearing a business suit doesn't mean he's Mr. Pro-Western Asian bizman. The big bizzes over there are not owned by people in the sense that we're familiar with. They are either overtly or covertly owned by the ChiComm gov't and those that the gov't deems worthy to cut in on the action - their lying, spying, stealing, illegal campaign money donating operatives with whom they've infiltrated the West. 3) The way things are headed, we need them more than they need us. I've said this before on this board and I'll say it again. THEY DO NOT NEED MONEY TO WAGE WAR. That's one of the biggest misconceptions of all time. They have what they need: resources (thanks to the Russians and thanks to the influx of Western money that has given them the currency to hoard most every raw mat'l there is), know-how (thanks to Clinton, the French, etc.), and manpower. Any nation that can compel its citizenry to work at the point of a bayonet does not need money. |
As long as they depend on our trade, or even the EU, they are pussy cats. As the economy there gets stronger and the young replace the old, Democracy will flourish. (Read "The Pentagons New Map" so everybody can save money on tin foil.) |
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The Three Gorges Dam will make one hell of a mess if we ever have to bust it for 'em. Long term, though, I do think that rising affluence among their general populace will boost democratic reform. Before then, things could still get unpleasant to one degree or another. |
I think you are wrong and Brutus is right. When did china get 1.8 billion extra people? Last I heard they had ~ 1.2 billion with India close behind. |
Someone who gets it. China won't attack the US. They are interested in pushing us out and dominating Eurasia. At the least Asia And I don't see who can stop them. We can't. Not without nukes. The Russians can't. India is a populous nation with some ability to fight them but geographically they are cut off from China and China will just bypass them. Not to mention that Pakistan and India will likely set the whole thing off and are going to have enough of their own problems that they'll be unable to deal with anyone. The Chinese are just waiting until they are strong enough economically and militarily, and until all the chess pieces are in place. They'll move then. I guarantee it. We don't have long to get our shit together-----15 years +/- 5. |
And the US is currently the only thing standing between the Chinese and Taiwan. That's why the Chinese are building up their military, including the Nuclear arsenal. US intelligence projects that by 2015 the Chinese will have more than 100 mobile Nuclear armed ICBM's capable of reaching the United States. That's in addition to the 20 Nuclear armed Silo based ICBM's capable of reaching the US that the Chinese already have. |
| China has alot of people to worry about within its own borders. The current Chicoms have been in power for a mere fraction of Chinese History. The enemy that topples their current .gov will come from within. It has been the way it has happened for centuries. If they don't carefully plan for their democratization and growth, they could be having serious domestic problems. Their armies are not made of volunteers, and the people are most loyal to their families and regions. |