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Posted: 6/13/2001 10:47:34 PM EDT
hey guys and gals - these are with all due repsect - just wondering with the passing of y2k - what the mindset of the devoted are relating to certain topics 1: the return of christ - he didn't show up on new years eve of 2000 or 2001 (the real millenium) what now? 2: the ascention (sp?) - what of that? is it still going to occur even though christ did not show up? if so when? 3: or is christ already here as a regular human and if so how would you recognize him/her? thanks steve
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 10:52:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 11:03:24 PM EDT
Hardly anybody recognized Christ the first time. What makes you think that we'd get it right the second time around? I believe in a second coming of Moses . . . John Moses Browning.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 11:10:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2001 11:08:55 PM EDT by Juggernaut]
Ummm... When did He say was coming back in 2000 years? Am I not reading the Gospels carefully enough? Or was that some overheard, unsubstantiated rumor that that was the plan? "No man knoweth the hour or the day", and that includes me. There are centennialists and Melleniallists every time 100 or 1000 years rolls around, yet they have no backing for their belief other than "round numbers". Ohhh-Kay. I'm waiting on a couple more things in Revelations to take place before I become concerned with the end times. And BTW, when he shows up, we'll ALL know. Check Revelations. Trumpets, plagues, battles and The Four Horsemen will ride rampant over the earth. Sounds like fun-Not. I'm saved through Christ, though, and thus only my mortal body is susceptible to death and pain. Content to wait on God's timing, even for the end of the world. Hopefully he'll wait a bit... Juggernaut[%(]
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 11:14:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2001 11:26:30 PM EDT by gunlover]
It was never revealed when Christ would return or when the gathering togther would take place. No man knows the time or the hour except God who is the Holy Spirit. All these theories are just interpretations of men. But believe what you want. Christ will return one day.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 11:19:51 PM EDT
This thread is really lame, I’m a church going bible thumping Christian and have been for many years and I have never met a Christian who ever believed our Lord was returning in 2000 or 2001 or on any set date time or year. Patiently waiting for the day. THISISME
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 11:27:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 12:11:14 AM EDT
I'm a bible scholar by no means and will not even try to quote it off the top of my head, BUT I believe it also says something like a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. In other words time has no meaning. If this is the case then even Revelations is somewhat vage. You are also warned to be ready for he will come "as a thief in the night". This can be read in the story of the bridegroom and the maidens who had oil and the ones who did not. Like I said I am NOT any kind of bible expert but I have read it, for those who have not you would be suprised what all it contains. [uzi]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 12:57:08 AM EDT
Err, Our Calender is about 3 years off (I think?) from the true Roman Calender [;)] I'm not [%|], but it may still happen yet. The truth is that we ARE seeing some of the prophecies come to pass in our time (formation of isreal, etc.). I am not a biblical scholar, but here is the way I see it: I don't know where I am going, and niether does anyone else (really, no offense to anyone, but even Mother Teresa did not know [but she was sure in her own heart]where she would go). All I or anyone else can do is have a good relationship with our Father and Jesus and be prepared in case we don't go up to heaven immediately.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 1:07:58 AM EDT
To answer question #3: According to the Good Book, Jesus wil be "clothed in a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; and his feet were like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters; and he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in His strength ( Rev. 1:13-16). Not to sound Blasphemous, But who knows, we may end up fighting at His side. I would be curious to know how SS109 works against demons [;)] [}:D] [heavy]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 3:04:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2001 3:05:07 AM EDT by cc48510]
I don't think he would have lasted long in Liberal America. The ATF would have hauled him off when he turned the water into wine (illegal Brewing.) Oh wait, he was a minor, they would have hauled Mary off in chains too. Oh, then theres the public preaching. The liberals will have none of that. The liberals would probably throw him in jail for life before he had time to do anything. Sorry, just my rant about those liberals/atheists. P.S. I never believed the second coming would be in 2000 or 2001. If for any other reason, because the tabloids said it would happen. I love collecting tabloids and noting when they don't come true. I've got a Star from 1995 that says the world will end in 1997. Though, Clinton wqas re-inagurated, that's a sign of the end right. The coming of the Anti-Christ. Oops, the World Weekly News says that a Media/Banking Giant is the Anti-Christ. Time-Warner Anybody. Wouldn't suprise me. Ted Turner, most likely.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 4:59:51 AM EDT
No one know the hour or the day! People always think that anytime a big event happens (y2k) he will return to save those that are born again from the tragedy that is about to happen, when in all reality these things happen so we will learn to trust in him with our whole hearts. People also thought Adolph Hitler was the anti-christ. The word says Christ will return like a theif in the night so work for him until he comes and live everyday like it's the day he will return!
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 8:41:26 AM EDT
thanks guys- alot of real heart felt answers. now for some hard stuff based on what you guys wrote. again with respect. so christ was not set to return at the millenium? ok, my bad - for some reason (most likely media induced) i was under the impression that this was the time. but as oneshot wrote "christ will appear to take his people home" - ok what is the implication of this statement? one perspective is that - christ being of a divine origin, from the 'heavens' (outerspace?) does that not make christ an extraterrestrial? and if he is going to take his "people home" - does this not imply that christians are therefore 'aliens' or at least of alien descent as well? another board member brought to my attention that to allow the christ to return - we had to turn our swords into ploughshares and hooks. so by that - having armed christians - does that not prevent the return of christ? just curious! thanks for bearing with. steve
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 8:59:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By steve m: but as oneshot wrote "christ will appear to take his people home" - ok what is the implication of this statement? one perspective is that - christ being of a divine origin, from the 'heavens' (outerspace?) does that not make christ an extraterrestrial? and if he is going to take his "people home" - does this not imply that christians are therefore 'aliens' or at least of alien descent as well? steve
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Steve - VERY good question. Biblically, the Christian is described as a "stranger and pilgrim in the earth." This is not our home. In essence, we have a balancing act to perform. On the one hand - We are NOT to let this life, material possessions, the cares of this world consume us. On the other hand - We are NOT to be "so heavenly minded we are no earthly good." As Christians, we are to be a benefit and help to everyone we can. (which actually should be clearly defined, but is beyond the scope of an internet forum) But, the fact that we are "Not of this world" as Christ has described us, explains why we are often thought of as loonie bins, crazy, weird, repressed, etc. It goes with the territory. Its tough work, but the benefit plan is EXCELLENT. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 8:59:37 AM EDT
If I am not mistaken I believe that the Bible says that Christ will come as a "thief in the night", and that no man will know the hour in which he will return. I think that this is to say that there is no set date or time. This is why I was not sitting around on new years waiting for him to show up.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:37:44 AM EDT
God`s way and God`s time. man is never to know when.God has His own calendar, and it has no relation whatsoever to mans idea of time. Man is a finite entity, God is infinite....we cannot relate to that state of being!.....anyone/group (and there have been many) who predict "the end" or the second coming, have no clue, and are following false/non christian doctrine!!!!
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:01:20 AM EDT
Thisisme, You're absolutley right. We as christians didn't think that Jesus was coming in 2000 or for any other time for that matter. To make an assumption like that is rediculous. In the Bible Jesus himself says: "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven , but my father only" This means that not even Jesus know when he is being sent. We all have our own thoughts on when Jesus is coming but there is no way anyone can know. It will come when we least expect it. Christ is not already here. If he was myself and christains like me would all be gone.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:45:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2001 6:44:10 PM EDT by tayous1]
Jesus is not to come until the end of the world and at that time that no man well ever know. How said the end of the world was Y2K I think someone was reading to may of thou end of the world book. Just some food for thought the Jews and the Muslims (Sorry if I got the wrong people the Jews are at war with.) are to be at peace when comes the end of the world. I have never read the end of the world was to be Y2K. And the end of the world is when Jesus was to rise again. But maybe thats just me.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 11:48:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By THISISME: This thread is really lame, I’m a church going bible thumping Christian and have been for many years and I have never met a Christian who ever believed our Lord was returning in 2000 or 2001 or on any set date time or year. Patiently waiting for the day. THISISME
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Thank you THISISME!!! Care to respond steve m? Nuckles.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 11:52:01 AM EDT
Jesus was born around 4 or 5 B.C. IMHO, the present calendar numbering system is not what to base the return of our Lord on. I believe in the pre-millenial POST-tribulation rapture of the saints.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 11:58:05 AM EDT
If Christ ever returns, and the trumpet sounds, I'll know if I get "left behind" or not. All I have to do is give my grandfather a call - and if he's still on God's Earth, then I will be certain Christ never came. He would be one of the first to make it up into God's realm. Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 12:08:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2001 12:06:47 PM EDT by sigman]
Originally Posted By AMHsix: If Christ came back in 2000 he(or she, could be a female this time[;)]) would only be 1 years old now. So, he/she is growing up right now... Be nice to children born in 1999-2001, you could be fucking with God's kid.
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What are you people talking about?????????? Jesus is'nt going to be born and raised on the earth again.The rapture is when takes believers home. The antichrist is the one who will be born and will rule. Good thing I woul'nt be here,some of you people that are left will think the antichrist is Jesus/God. Of course I understand that is the way many will be deceived,and then have their "belief" reaffirmed when he is assasinated and returns to life.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 12:11:41 PM EDT
HOWEVER when the antichrist "returns from the dead" he will not be the mere man he was before he died.He will then be inhabited by satan himself.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 3:02:41 PM EDT
As to the question of armed Christians. St. Paul writes we are supposed to "occupy" until He comes. The word in Greek "occupy" was one denoting a military occupation, interestingly enough. Much connotation to that particular scripture. Many Christians and biblical scholars will tell you some of the initial events have happened that have set in motion the approach of the final "week" as spoken of in the "70 Week Prophecy" of Daniel, as in The Book of Daniel, chapter 9, verse 24. One great event that is spoken of (in the Bible) was the rebirth of the Nation Of Israel. That happened in 1948. Israel is the only nation to have been reborn, after being completely dissolved, in history, period. BTW - The United Nations became a formal entity in 1948. Hmmm. Coincidence?? You decide. Anyhow Jesus spoke that "When you see these things" (come to pass, like the rebirth of Israel and/or the complete capture of Jerusalem), "that generation shall not pass away until all is fulfilled". A biblical generation is 40 years, 70 years or 120 years. Obviously the 40 year mark has passed. Just watch the headlines pertaining with the middle east and Israel in particular. It is getting close. I apparently will be in our generation.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 3:41:24 PM EDT
nuckles - i think i already answered thisisme in my last post saying that the return of christ was a media thing. if this is such a lame thread - why are there so many quality answers? i really feel for the first time that there is a non-fire and brimestone thread that christians and non can read and try to grasp what is going on. i am aware of hopi prophecy and it is not unlike the other teachings. however the hopi prophecy is gathered knowledge that is atleast 1000 to 8000 years old. one common thread is the threat of the coming apocalypse - which contrary to the goom an gloom predictions - really means the unveiling. to the hopi's (important note - i do not portend to have any connection with the tribe - only interpretation of readily available information) is the end of the 4th world and the beginning of the 5th. 1: what bothers me about christ returning is why does he have to "come like a thief in the night?" if he is the ruler of this world - why not come in thru the front door? 2: why would god have to come back to pick up his children that have been left behind - when you go to heaven anyway when you die? makes for a fast tactical sneak extraction unnessecary yes? 3: has anyone ever seen the mosaic on the 'church of all nations'? in jerusalem - i have in person and can email it to some one who can then post it up - it shows something that can be interpreted as more powerful than god.. if there was a force or another god; more or as powerful as the christian god - then jesus would have to sneak in to pick his people up. AND this would also lend to the probability of reincarnation and not the ascencion of the christian spirit to heaven upon death - but recycling of the soul into another human? thanks for reading. not trying to change beliefs - just asking 'why?' steve
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 6:39:35 PM EDT
Steve From reading your comments I gather that you do not believe in jesus, to that I must say this. first of all this great country of ours was founded by a bunch of bible thumpers who did believe in jesus. They knew that believeing in jesus was the only way to be truly free, there are many qoutes from our founding fathers that back this up. when a population stops believing in god,jesus,the bible, then they start to go by their own set of rules, which almost always leads to corruption which leads to a government that needs to curb your behavior that is the result of your corruption. Dont be fooled by the myth that christians are weak or foolish or any thing else that is a trick of those that want more government and the best way to get more government is to corrupt the people, so more crime is commited which in turn will lead to more laws that restrict our freedoms it is really quite simple. I hope this shreds some light on your disbelief. so come sunday I will bring my family to church to teach my children about jesus which will mold them into fine men and women with honor, integrity and character and hopefully help to return our country to the great country it once was. Amen. P.S. if jesus never existed then why does the whole world keep track of the passage of time according to the life of someone who never was? something to think about.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 7:03:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2001 7:03:02 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
While St. Paul did write -
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [b]But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all children of light, and the children of the day; we are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.[/b]
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Moral of the story? Those who fervently watch for the glory of His appearing, will not be watching in vain. They may not know the hour and the day, but they will know the season of His return. [BTW, that's I Thessalonians, V, v.1-6] Eric The(SorryAboutThe'Sober'Part)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 7:19:42 PM EDT
I agree that we will not know the exact date of the Second Coming, but I just want to throw this in for coinsidence's sake. In the Aztec (or Mayan, can't remember which?) calender, its "end" will be in December of 2012. I'm not saying that I think that anything WILL happen then, but it makes you wonder... Urban [sniper]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 8:56:57 PM EDT
Post from Urbanrifleman -
In the Aztec (or Mayan, can't remember which?) calender, its "end" will be in December of 2012.
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You would have thought that one of these two groups would have at least stayed around long enough to find out if the end of the world actually comes in 2012? I mean they both kinda' checked out a little too early, I'm thinking. Mayans pretty much ended with their assimilation into Toltec society around 1200 AD. Aztecs bit the dust in about 1521, with the loss of their capital city to Hernando Cortez. Eric The(Bummer)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:52:36 PM EDT
[size=3] Amen Juggarnaut[/size=3]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:06:25 PM EDT
Here is how I think about it... how long is one millenium to God? howmany of our little years fill just one of His moments? don't sweat it, you'll know when He wants you to and not before. Ronnie
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:28:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2001 10:30:13 PM EDT by DJbump]
One point on the Christ's return. The Christ will return as 'as a thief in the night' not to hide or be deceptive in any way, but so that each of us individually must be spiritually versed enough to recognize on our own that the Christ has returned. It's like all the folks you run across who claim to be former green berets or seals. One can claim anything, but it is upon us and our spiritual discernment to KNOW. On a side note, we have a tendency to lump all "evil" as Satan, when in fact there is a three headed evil power structure. Lucifer, Sorath and Ahriman make up the triumvirate. In much the same way there is a three part structure of light (father, son, holy spirit) there is the aforementioned one in darkness. Throughout the ages the whole truth and details of the "battle" have been obscured. It is up to US to find our covenant with Creator and our spirit much as it is to find the knowledge and ability to discern. We are not the first "modern civilization" on this planet, nor is this the first or the last stage of the battle. And as mentioned earlier, we are not of this earth--originally we used to traverse the universe. Our true nature and our true history has been obfuscated. Much as the educational system has methodically dumbed down the masses, a complementary program has been waged on the matters of spirit. As with anything, caveat emptor, batteries not included, and your mileage may vary. "The means by which we live have outdistanced the ends for which we live. Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968)
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 8:52:45 AM EDT
In personal belief I belive that when Christ returns everyone will know about it. Do to a few things I have read up on. To paraphrase it goes along like this. Morning of his arrival - The selected are risen up to greet him. Meanwhile the Earth is cleansed with fire. About this fire thing - when Moses beheld the face of God he was transfigured. And the onlyway you can be transfigured is if you are rightious. So basically everyone who isn't upto par are toast. Eve of his arrival - Those who have lived good lives but have still not grasped the truth. End of Millenial Regein - Everyone left out of the previous catagouries. Except save a few. To also refer to the phrase "as a theif in the night" That would also mean when no one is expecting it. That means everything is going great you sinning your head off cause all these things havnt happened yet that you thought would before he came and bam its too late. Anyway thats what I belive. I didn't do to into detail I hope cause it gets rather complicated when you do.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 9:08:49 AM EDT
djbump - great post - do you have any source for what you have written - this is the first time ever that i have heard of the "evil trinity" - and funny you brought up mlk - because as some people say that jesus was black - it would make sense that he would return black? if so what if mlk was the return of christ and 'we' as humans or the evil that lives among us - killed him again? considering that any human that tries to bring peace and understanding to this world is killed or ridiculled - as well as all the other horrible things that occurr here - would it not make sense that satan or evil powers are the ones in charge of the planet? and that the goodness of men's souls is the light of 'god' despite what goes on? and when christ returns and the final battle of good and evil occurs - just in that statement if christ it returning, then the evil must be 'here' as there is no mention of the devil returning.... again reinforcing that satan is in charge. i do not think of christians as weak, foolish or misguided. i just have never really looked at what they have to say - so far i am very intriguied thank you gentlemen steve
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 9:19:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By steve m: djbump - great post - do you have any source for what you have written - this is the first time ever that i have heard of the "evil trinity" -
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FYI - There is NO Scriptural basis (King James Version) for this teaching of an "Unholy Trinity" Scripture teaches of Satan, and legions of angels. Be careful.
Originally Posted By steve m: i do not think of christians as weak, foolish or misguided. i just have never really looked at what they have to say - so far i am very intriguied
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Just keep digging, keep asking questions, and MOST OF ALL, pray and ask God for guidance. He WANTS you to know about him.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 9:33:35 AM EDT
In The Revelation of Jesus by John Chapt 22:19 John wrote: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Paul urged Christians to not take him at his word but to double check what Paul said against what the bible says....do not be lead astray by false doctrine and get bogged down in the gobbledegook of the new age ...A man must first believe that God is before he can have fellowship with him...Jesus himself said this about himself..that if you have seen me (Jesus) then you have seen the father ..the father and I (Jesus) are one...and NO MAN can come to the Father but by the son (Jesus) apart from a personal relationship with Jesus Christ... (a sincere knowledge of ones personal evil -For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God..The human heart is deceitfully wicked who can know it..It is mans nature to be evil all his days and his hands go after mischief continually...) confession of ones sins and a sincere desire to be forgiven and to have Jesus come into your lilfe, your heart...this relationship with Christ is the saving relationship..that through his grace and mercy you are saved and not of your own works...A man cannot earn salvation...nothing you can do apart from Christ impresses God...He keeps us from condemnation and judgement..it is His FREE gift to those who are able to accept it...most (according to scripture) will not..for He said easy is the way to damnation- broad is the way to destruction..the way to salvation is narrow (he called himself the narrow gate) and few find it....It is the Holy Spirit that call us all back from the dead to a relationship with HIM (Jesus) for all are dead in their sins...we are the walking dead the damned the doomed apart from Him..for the wages of sin is death...and all have sinned...You cannot even choose apart from the Holy Spirit awakening you and given you the desire to come to Him..When He returns the entire earth will know it simultaneously at our core we are spirit beings temporarly encased in the flesh that ages and dies our spirts know God...and his power...when He gives it to us to know him We live among the dead who we were like before He gave us life...when he returns all life will know Him ..for he is the creator of all life...God made man is our Jesus the Christ (Savior) and when He returns all life will cry out knowing their salvation is here all those who hate him will cry out in anguish at the truth...in the words of John the Baptist "Repent Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand"..
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 1:33:51 PM EDT
One has to realize that current "versions" of the Bible have been so edited as to retain very little resemblance to their former selves. Get out and do the legwork, and you will find there is MUCH more to the story than even the earliest versions of the Bible indicate. Passing on to you what I know does nothing, steve. You need to personally find your answers.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 1:58:16 PM EDT
You need to go to the Hebrew version of the bible to understand it. Much of what we have today is a translation of a translation. Also Hebrew is a lazy language. Many Hebrew words have several meanings. You have to read into the history and culture of the time to get the meaning.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 2:01:10 PM EDT
Mad Yankee, I was just rereading your post and Thomas Jefferson was an agnostic, he didn't necessarliy believe in Jesus. He supported everyobne's right to believe in what they felt was right.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 2:32:51 PM EDT
I would like to point out that no where in Bible King James or before does it mention that there is an unholy trinity. Further more if there were then why would Satan share what he belives to be his imenant rise to glory with them. It is widly belived that Satan(Lucifer, Sun of the Morning) is the great deseciver. And if you are essenshally the same when you die, having the same likes and dislikes. Why would Satan change any? He would still be the deciver and would not share in his glory. Now in my belief system this was started because 2 plans were proposed one by Christ and one by Lucifer. Lucifer offered that not a soul would be lost because he would take away our free agency. But he demanded the glory for doing it. Christ then said that the glory for his plan would be his fathers. Long story short - War in heaven. 1 thrid of the hosts of heaven follow Lucifer and are cast out. So in the grand scheme of things if he was so jealous why would he share????
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 3:09:09 PM EDT
this is a great thread - and i want to thank everyone who had participated - i agree- that the bible now is not the document of 'then' it has been altered over time. a significant editing was when emperor constantine of the HRE formed the council of 300 (killing the other 900 bishops who disagreed) and supposedly threw out the books of the bilbe that did not show HIM (constantine)to be the true messiah... in the books deleted that still supposedly exist in the secret libraries of the vatican are the books of mary jesus's mother and mary jesus's wife. apparently to be a rabbi at that time - a prerequisite is you had to be a father. also deleted were the book(s) of jesus himself where he talks about reincarnation and the true nature of this world. very heavy stuff if true. as far as the war in heaven and casting out of the 1/3 of angels.... rifles4me - could you tell more of it - i am somewhat confused by your post - lucifer and christ were equals? or brothers? any resource on this war? one thing i have uncovered in my travels is ancient linguistics. have you ever asked yourself what and 'angel' really is? it is an 'ang' -'l'. the 'g' can interchange with a 'k' and we have 'ank' -'l'. in the early sumerian and egyptian (khemetese) 'ank' meant life and was a essentially a cross with a circle on top. what regulates or controls all life ultimately is 'time'. therefore "life = time". the letter 'l' denoted 'lordly' or 'lord'. ancient languages are read from right to left and a conclusion that can then be drawn is an angel is a "lord of time/life" or in simpler terms a "time lord"! so if jesus and satan were both important angels - they were in effect important time lords!! now the war in heaven makes more sense! there's more - but later! any input is appreciated. thanks again steve
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 6:16:56 PM EDT
Steve M, it sounds like you are getting your information about Christianity second- or even third-hand. I commend you for asking. Jesus the Messiah said "Ask, and you shall receive: Seek, and you shall find: Knock, and the door shall be opened unto you." Our Lord welcomes an honest skeptic, who is willing to recognize the truth when he finds it. Go find a King James Bible, and carefully read the Gospel of John. Pray for revelation, and prepare for the greatest adventure in this world, or the next!
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 6:28:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By steve m: djbump - great post - do you have any source for what you have written - this is the first time ever that i have heard of the "evil trinity" -
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FYI - There is NO Scriptural basis (King James Version) for this teaching of an "Unholy Trinity" Scripture teaches of Satan, and legions of angels. Be careful.
Originally Posted By steve m: i do not think of christians as weak, foolish or misguided. i just have never really looked at what they have to say - so far i am very intriguied
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Just keep digging, keep asking questions, and MOST OF ALL, pray and ask God for guidance. He WANTS you to know about him.
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Garandman: in response to some of you reply, I have heard that Satan is not a particularly original individual, and therefore copies what he sees. If God, the Son and Holy Spirit exist then why wouldn't Satan copy it. In Revelations there is spoken if the the Beast, the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet. Three. Just something to think about. To the skeptics - and I want to thank every body for no flames - modern science and archeology are proving almost daily the validity of the accounts in the Bible. Did you know the real MT. Sinai was found about 2 years ago??? There is an extremely interesting video about it. I have seen it. Guess how it was found??? The directions of the travel of the Jews as they left Egypt were followed. DUH!!! Went right to it. Everything is there as is described in Genesis and Exodus. Everything. It is stunning. To those that do not believe and want to know: As garandman said "just keep digging". I did. I walked away from church and religion when I was 16. When I was 44 I took another look. Maybe because I was older and hopefully wiser I saw what was not seen as a youth. Oh God, there is so much there if you just look.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 6:40:35 PM EDT
9divdoc, very well written. Steve, Jesus was not an angel. He is the Son of God but yet is God himself. (one third of the Trinity) "For God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." Book of John, chapter 3, verse 16. Although this is a very spirited discussion, maybe you should do some reading of the Bible for yourself to understand some of these questions that you have. Also, try to find a good church that has Biblical teachings and surround yourself with a body of people that are more than just some faceless names from the internet. Good luck on your journey and God Bless. Brian
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 10:24:39 PM EDT
First, an apology for my last reply--it was written in haste. I did not mean to imply that early versions of the Bible contained any mention of the Unholy Trinity--as has been noted, they most certainly do not. My point was that the Bible is incomplete at best. As an example, it's like coming to a baseball game in the 7th inning and the players that started the game are nowhere to be found. Most mainstream scientists claim "modern civilizations" have existed for somewhere in the neighborhood of 10s of thousands of years when in fact hundreds of thousnads of years would only be approaching the real truth in that regard. Yes, there is some very valuable info in the Bible. But it is not the whole story of humanity. But the main gist of many of the replies to steve m is to find your own answers to your spiritual questions. One of the most fulfilling things in the spirit world is for an individual to see either some or all of the other side and then to consciously choose the light. Just as the claims of a Creator to be feared is in error, so to is the idea of forced spiritual decisions. Ultimate freedom is choosing or seeking for yourself. And to reiterate, I will try not to reply while getting ready for work in the future. The practical difficulty with our government has been that most of those who have administered it have taken it for granted that the Constitution, as it is written, was a thing of no importance; that it neither said what it meant, nor meant what it said; that it was gotten up by swindlers... who said a great many good things, which they did not mean, and meant a great many bad things, which they dared not say; that these men, under the false pretense of a government resting on the consent of the whole people, designed to entrap them into a government of a part, who should be powerful and fraudulent enough to cheat the weaker portion out of all the good things that were said, but not meant, and subject them to all the bad things that were meant, but not said. And most of those who have administered the government, have assumed that all these swindling intentions were to be carried into effect, in place of the written Constitution -- Lysander Spooner, 1867
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 10:54:34 PM EDT
This entire christian thing sounds like a control issue to me, why else would followers be referred to as sheep?
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 11:14:29 PM EDT
Erik the Hun, No S&%T! According to your logic, that would mean that because the Jews were conquered by the Romans, and did not survive as a state, all of their prophesy and knowledge (ie: the foundation of Christianity, the Bible, etc.) does not mean anything! Just because a culture died out, was conquered, etc. should not mean that we should turn a blind eye to it or dismiss it. You, sir, are a very ignorant individual and I pity you for not at least taking into account the similarities that extist between the various belief systems of the world, as well as their prophesy. I don't mean to flame, but I think you unfairly dismissed the point. I'm not going to spend the time till 2012 preparing for a catastrophy, but I thought that this was an open ended thread about the observations of Christians (myself included) as well as others about the Second Coming and the End Times(really the new beginning). I thought this thread was a little more open minded than what your comments seem to suggest.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:14:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2001 1:12:32 AM EDT by Morgan-Keegan]
I will have to chime in on this one as well. For the non-beleivers I would HIGHLY suggest that you read the book of revelations. Once you have many of the prophcies have come true!! I strongly look for the coming soon and highly wait for it! The bible is for REAL and never question it. Save yourself and you shall be FREE! GOD BLESS
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