In Jr high we had a teacher names Mrs. Friendly.  She had an akita, and the outdoor run it spent the day in had 8 foot fence walls.

One day the dog got out and mauled a kid at a school playground in the area. The pound took the dog and she got  a lawyer.  

The kid mauled was her next door niebhor,  his parents worked at the pound.

This kid had thrown rocks, sticks, and taunted the dog for years before hand.   And on that day someone decided "kids dad" let the animal out of the cage so he could nab it later that day as a stray.

The dog appeared on teh playground, and guess who started throwing and taunting the dog......

Kid learned a lesson of life & got 300 stitches.  

She won her court battle to get her dog back but it was to late.  It had died a week before in the pound because the lack of proper care.    The parents labeled the dog dangerous and thus refused to let it out of a quaranteen cage and into a run.   It was trained not to go to the bathroom where it slept.  And because of this training the dog ended up septic to the point of dieing.

She file a suit,  I don't know what happened after that.  but i hope she cleaned then out.  I do know those people do not work at the pound anymore tho.

"You ARE responsible for the actions of your dog, and if that dog should attack some little kid who through an overabundance of enthusiasm, runs up your driveway to see your dog, it is YOUR fault, not the child's or its parents."

So it is their fault, not the child's, or the partents who aren't supervising their children, that that child is on someone else's property and in is potential danerous situation?

here is one for you I own a 7 month old lab who loves the neighborhood kids *and my own 6yr old* coupla weeks ago i was out front by my truck and one of the neighborhood girls was walking to school down the sidewalk. She was walking along merry as you please then saw the dog and started to *sneak* along (good thing I had the dog on a leash) just as she came around the tree she yelled boo at the dog and jumped towards me. Now this particular girl has been around our yard a lot playing with the dog quite a bit. Said dog promptly went in defence mode and was barking and growling but when i told him to sit he plopped down jsut like he is suposed to. Later that week I was walking the dog down the block and this girls mother came out of her house and gave me a stern talking to about how I have a vicius dog in a residential neighborhood. I told her what happend and she said that it was still the dogs fault because when i told my dog to sit he kept growling as her kid walked by.  Now a really young kid I could maybe understand this behavior from but the girl in question is 14 yrs old.

One time when I was camping in Idaho there was a 200 - 300 lb black bear cruzing around the camp sites.   One day we see a little girl walking down a path by herself and my friends wife asked her what she was doing?    The little girl said she wanted to go pet the bear, my friends wife stopped her and took her back to her campsite.  Yea I bet the bear would just love that.

This is such Crap!!

The fault lies in both arenas if there is a bite.

Parents: Teach your kids that not all puppies like to play...but in that vein...keep an eye on the kids so that they don't do stupid shit. People like to say.."If you can't control your dog ...leash him or kill him"...nice...I say the same thing about some of the most retarded undisciplined piece of shit kids in my neighborhood.

Owners: Realize the propensity of your animal to defend/bite/whatever and take reasonable precautions to avoid it. You don't need to land mine the yard, but do what a responsible person should do. If you suck, and insist on having a dog, then ask a friend who's responsible what they would do and copy them.

Accidents will happen, but StyrAug did the right thing. He had the dog on a leash in his yard and when the situation had taken a bad turn, he still had the control of the dog because he is a responsable owner.

I applaud him for that. Nobody knows what can go through the minds of a dog. ANY dog, in the right situation can seriously injure of kill someone. They are pack animals/predators/ 99% wolf!!

There are breeds that are more prone to aggressive behaviour, and the owner should realize that. We have 2 german shepherds and a golden retriever, as well as a little boy and another on the way. Our son is taught that you don't approach a strange dog...PERIOD!!  The sheps are trained, socialized, and well taken care of..hell they have a better couch to sleep on in the house than I do. Our guys are big lovable fuzzballs, but if they felt threatened, or anyone took agressive moves toward myself or my family, I would feel bad for that person and whatever was left of them. Dogs protect the pack, and the sooner people realize that, the better. We have control and I can call them to a down position from over 60 yards out INSTANTLY.  

We've had kids run up the driveway hollerin' and sayin' "Hi Puppy" with my 12 month old on the lawn. Both Sheps stand up, put themselves between the intruder and my son and then keep looking back to see what I wanted them to do. If I say down, they drop, if I show fear or run to protect my wife or my son, the intruder won't go another 10 feet.  That's not security, that's loyalty, but it comes from the alpha male and female and they know that's me and the wife.

Now...kids taunting an animal? Sticks, rocks, etc...then the gloves are off and shit will hit the fan. Lay the bets now cause the kids goin down.

And for those of you quick to blame the animal in that situation, let me confine you in the front yard, poke you with sicks, and hit you with rocks, then let you out and see if you don't want to whoop some ass.

Signed,

Kurt "It ain't always the dog." Austin

Even Jack Russells will bite people and kids if they are "rushed" by them.  The dog probably did not feel threatened but was protecting Steyr.

My oldest Jack Russell, when walking one day, on a leash, suddlenly squatted flat on his belly and began a low rumble of a growl. I'd never seen him do it. I looked where he was looking and here was a lab running at us with it's tail wagging coming over to play. My other dog, a dachhund, was trying to hide behind me. I saw the owner of the Lab laughing and casually chasing his dog. I yelled for him to make his dog stop. He said "Oh he won't hurt your little white dog".

When my Jack Russell hit the lab in the chest at full speed, the lab rolled and I pulled the leash hard and the Lab turned and ran away whining and yelping.  The "Owner" looked astonished.

The dog was protecting me and his sister from the other dog, I believe. The "owner" wandered off muttering...LOL

Well put Austin:

Parents: Teach your kids that not all puppies like to play...but in that vein...keep an eye on the kids so that they don't do stupid shit. People like to say.."If you can't control your dog ...leash him or kill him"...nice...I say the same thing about some of the most retarded undisciplined piece of shit kids in my neighborhood.

Owners: Realize the propensity of your animal to defend/bite/whatever and take reasonable precautions to avoid it. You don't need to land mine the yard, but do what a responsible person should do. If you suck, and insist on having a dog, then ask a friend who's responsible what they would do and copy them.

Accidents will happen, but StyrAug did the right thing. He had the dog on a leash in his yard and when the situation had taken a bad turn, he still had the control of the dog because he is a responsable owner.

I applaud him for that. Nobody knows what can go through the minds of a dog. ANY dog, in the right situation can seriously injure of kill someone. They are pack animals/predators/ 99% wolf!!

There are breeds that are more prone to aggressive behaviour, and the owner should realize that. We have 2 german shepherds and a golden retriever, as well as a little boy and another on the way. Our son is taught that you don't approach a strange dog...PERIOD!! The sheps are trained, socialized, and well taken care of..hell they have a better couch to sleep on in the house than I do. Our guys are big lovable fuzzballs, but if they felt threatened, or anyone took agressive moves toward myself or my family, I would feel bad for that person and whatever was left of them. Dogs protect the pack, and the sooner people realize that, the better. We have control and I can call them to a down position from over 60 yards out INSTANTLY.

We've had kids run up the driveway hollerin' and sayin' "Hi Puppy" with my 12 month old on the lawn. Both Sheps stand up, put themselves between the intruder and my son and then keep looking back to see what I wanted them to do. If I say down, they drop, if I show fear or run to protect my wife or my son, the intruder won't go another 10 feet. That's not security, that's loyalty, but it comes from the alpha male and female and they know that's me and the wife.

Now...kids taunting an animal? Sticks, rocks, etc...then the gloves are off and shit will hit the fan. Lay the bets now cause the kids goin down.

And for those of you quick to blame the animal in that situation, let me confine you in the front yard, poke you with sicks, and hit you with rocks, then let you out and see if you don't want to whoop some ass.

Signed,

Kurt "It ain't always the dog." Austin

____________________________________________________

The thing is that this argument will go on forever because its never "my" kids fault.

I also believe that there are some dogs that are aggresive in nature, but in reading the thread most everyone here seems to be a responsible owner, so I'll continue under that assumption and say that at least dog owners realize that our dogs after all ANIMALS and are capable of almost anything! THEY ARE ANIMALS! The folks who have posted that training is the answer... in the end its not. It does help in varying degrees, but a dog is a smart animal or he/she wouldn't have learned them in the first place. at a certain point dogs go on instinct... that's it.  Haven't we all seen the "when animals attack" shows. Trained elephants and bears attacking... dogs are no different which is why WE HUMANS are responsible for our actions (i.e. letting our kids run up to strange animals). My 2 cents but then again what do I know???    

Quoted: agreed the kid was stupid, but why did your dog perceive some little kid as a 'threat'?

Because the kid is screaming and running....

I swear the human race is gettign dumber by the day. In a couple of years they won't even know how to wipe their own asses.

Quoted: I swear the human race is gettign dumber by the day. In a couple of years they won't even know how to wipe their own asses.

That's the truth.  Sad... but true.

If the dog gets out and bites someone than its the owners fault or if it bites someone he invited over its his fault.
He didnt invite this little asshole to come up his driveway its the kids fault by 6 or 8 you should no better than to go after strange dogs.People need to start putting the fucking blame where it belongs.
The kid and the kids parents are responsible for his dumb behavior. Some of you people really fit in with the liberals.

Since I own two exec. protect cert'd shepereds, I thought I'd toss in my .02

First....parents need to teach their kids not to go running into strangers' yards.  

Second...making loud, excited noises and running towards a dog is going to put the dog in a frame of mind that this person will probably need to be bitten.

Dogs are highly terratorial animals.  Some breeds have had much of that socialized out of them, but individual memebers of the breed may still exhibit strong terratorial, pack and protective behaviors.  You can never tell when these traits will surface in a dog, even if it is the goofiest, sloppiest, kiss-giving, lap-crowding ball-fetching Lab.

My closest neighbor has 2 rotties, a Neufie, and pit/collie mix that appeared on their doorstep one day.  These are great folks and we see each other just about every day when I am in the states.  They come over and have beers on my deck, I go over and have beers on their deck.  We both bring our dogs with us.  However, both of us know that we have to stop and let the dogs know who it is before we enter one another's property.  We both stop at our respective fences and let the dogs come up and check us out.  Once the dogs have given us the all clear, it's ear scratching and belly rubbing.

Some issues that arise are the fault of the owner, not the dog.  Failing to train your dog can result in two things.  Firstly, the dog may begin to regard itself as the alpha member of your pack and seek to put other family members, such as spouse or children, in their respective places.  Alternatively, the dog may be in a continual state of limbo, NOT knowing it's place in the pack, which can make the dog unpredictable and, worst case, neurotic.
Failing to train dogs is 100% the owner's fault.  Basic obediance and repeated reinforcement of commands is enough to let the dog know exactly where it is in the family pack.  Advanced training, such as Schutzund, agility or retrieving will give the dog a strong sense of purpose and will know exactly what it's job in the pack is.  Training a dog and then failing to maintain that training will lead to a dog that begins to think that since you are no longer laying down the rules, he might as well be boss.

A bite is never the dog's fault.  It's is doing what dogs naturally do, either protecting itself or asserting it's dominance.  A biting dog is either the fault of the owner, or the idiot that got bit...usually the idiot.  There are cases of dogs just lashing out with no warning, but they are rare.

My dogs alert anytime some one gets near the house.  When that person is at the front door, they are in full Yard-Shark mode.  This gives said person pause to think, should they be considering something untoward.  On my command, they will sit and go silent, but they will never stop watching their target unless I give them the "ok".  If that person makes an agressive move, the dogs are trained not to wait for a command from me, but to launch right away.  Initial response is aggressive barking.  If the threat comes toward me, the dogs bite.  Period.  They will not release until I command them too.  I can shut the dogs down right away also, by giving them the "safe" command.

A well trained protection dog stays at your side and will not charge a threat unless YOU give it the command to.  It may bark it's head off and look about as stable as Jeff Goldbloom on a 3 day Meth bender, but it WILL NOT leave your side.  If a threat get's into your safe zone and continues to advance, then the dogs will latch on.

A dog that leaves your side with out a specific command during a threat encounter is a dog that needs much better training.  My dogs just about keep a paw in my socks during normal day to day activies, unless I give them the "free and play" command.  Then they turn into normal mutts.

When they are with my wife and she is somewhere stationary for a long period of time, they both try to sleep on top of her feet.

So..back to the kid running down my driveway.  My dogs would instantly alert.  A loud, two-legged thing running at them registers as a threat to me on their radar until I say it's ok.  They would not however, try to run at the kid unless I gave them the command.  If I didn't give the dogs the "cool-off" command and the kid continued to run at me, they would attack him once he got close enough to me.  That's what they are trained to do.
They would "clamp and hold".  Protection dogs are not trained to kill.  They are trained to latch on and hold, giving you time to escape.  If the attacker begins to actively try and harm the dogs, then they will defend themselves.  Someone who fought against the dogs hard enough might get killed by them.
But in this scenario, with the kid running down my driveway going "DOGGIE DOGGIE", they go on alert right away.  He continues to run towards them and they start to bark...aggresively.  This should stop the idiot kid in his tracks.  If it doesn't and he keeps running, I shut my dogs down, giving them a "cool-off" or "all-safe" command.  They won't have moved more than 12 or so inches the whole time.
This is a well trained K9 team and a responsible owner.  I insured that my dogs have the highest level of training I can obtain for them and I rountinely work with them.

The orignal poster, SteyrAUG, did nothing wrong.  His dog did nothing wrong either, acting with in the training it recieved in combination with it's natural instincts.  AUG was correct to have his dog on a lease, adding in an extra measure of control.

People fail to understand that dogs are potentially lethal weapons and should be treated with the same respect as a loaded gun.  Approaching an unfamilar dog is like pulling the trigger on a strange gun you have never handled and haven't inspected.  It might go off.

SteyrAUG,

I was saying this 4 or 5 years back when "Pitbulls" were made into "Devil dogs" by the news.  You did right, your dog did right.  As stated a million times now the problem is the stupid kids.  your dog on leash+kid attaked=kids fault.  In my neighborhood there is a little terror of a dog that barks, bites, and nips at everyone including it's owners.  That one stupid dog has tought everyone on my street the lessons many kids do not know.  When I was walking to Kindergarden (does anyone let their kids do that anymore?) with my 2 best friends we would always run past the yard of "THE BIG BLACK DOG".  It must have been a Black Lab, and it was very defensive of it's territory.  Looking back on it, running past probably pissed it off more, but at that age it seemed the smart thing to do.  We knew not to f&ck with that dog and would always go past on the other side of the street, usually at a full run.  For 6 years that dog tormented us.... Kindergarden through 5th grade.  I know not to mess with a dog protecting it's own, that is probably why.  I have a friend that is 6'4" and in the high 200s and he openly admits he's afraid of dogs because he knows what they can do.  It used to amuse me that my big bad friend was even leary of my parents football sized mutt... but he's a satan dog.  :P

Quoted: Bout 100%. If the kid had continued he probably woulda got bit because my dog would have percieved him as a continuoous threat. But I also would have gotten my dog off the kid in fairly short order and it is possible I may have prevented any bites at all given the leash. What floored me was how completely stupid this kid was. There was almost 0 distinction between his approach and that of an attacking dog. The only thing that amazed me even more was the fact that this kid did NOT recognize the aggressive response of my dog in reply and continued his approach.

Hope you didn't take anything I said as implying you failed to fully train your dog, or acted in an irresponsible manner, as that was not my intention. hefty
On the other hand, to anyone with the resources, the rewards for owning such a dog far FAR outweigh the costs.  

Your situation is one of the primary reason I choose NOT to live in suburbia, which is filled with all manner of half-wits, sheeple and general dopes.  Out where I live, most folks have a healthy respect for animals and the property of others.

Quoted: What floored me was how completely stupid this kid was. There was almost 0 distinction between his approach and that of an attacking dog. The only thing that amazed me even more was the fact that this kid did NOT recognize the aggressive response of my dog in reply and continued his approach.

Look at the parents if you want to understand why the kid behaves as he does.  Unless of course the child is actually mentally handicapped (this would also explain why he did not recognize aggressive behavior in the dog - or you ).

Two twelve year olds evidently are not capable of supervising this child or they were just as stupid.

Quick story.

New neighbors with five rat kids (HUD scum). Not here less then a day and I hear my dog barking outside on her leash in my yard. These friggen little morons were hitting her with a stick!

I run outside and they take off. Later welfare Mom comes up to me and tells me she'll sue my ass if I yell at her kids. I told her that I'm the last person in world you want to mess with. I've gotten the local judges, prosecuting attorney and law director elected to office and I'll drag her sorry butt to court in a heartbeat. She got mad, stormed off cursing.

If you don't think HUD destroys a neighborhood, come look at mine. Big fine old houses divided up into HUD apartments. I hate what's been done to my neighborhood.

Idiot from california?  Im not sure I called you anything but, ok.

Hey sports fan you said it yourself.

"At this point I'm doing eveything I can to keep my "doggie" under control."  

You and your dog have a brain the size of a BB.  I can think of about 10 things that might send someone running up to your house and them not needing to go to the hospital for it.  

Why dont you just move to another neighborhood where there are no kids and then you wont have to worry about them.  You and your dog can just frolick in a feild of fresh daisies or somthing.



   

"i think you said the child could have been as young as 6? i'll bet you hadn't been tying your own shoes for more than a year, at that age."

Agree, but you'd think either einstien or forest gump at 6 would naturally recognize the potentially dangerous actions of a defensive dog, especially a big 1. Lable this child whatever, but this child wouldn't last very long in nature.

Quoted: "You ARE responsible for the actions of your dog, and if that dog should attack some little kid who through an overabundance of enthusiasm, runs up your driveway to see your dog, it is YOUR fault, not the child's or its parents." So it is their fault, not the child's, or the partents who aren't supervising their children, that that child is on someone else's property and in is potential danerous situation?

The whole "it's the dog's fault 100% of the time" sounds like the Brady bunch:

"I broke into this guy's house and tried to rape his wife, and he shot me! Please, for my fellow criminals, ban guns!"

Perps are NEVER to blame any more. It's always the VICTIM's fault.

The kids in this case are the PERPS. The dogs and their owners are the VICTIMS.

After reading this thread, I'm convinced the problem is that nobody beats the shit outta their kids anymore...
Not to mention the kids need to realize the world isn't a fucking cartoon.

Yep.  That's the bottom line.

I agree with that ometz.

Quoted: "You ARE responsible for the actions of your dog, and if that dog should attack some little kid who through an overabundance of enthusiasm, runs up your driveway to see your dog, it is YOUR fault, not the child's or its parents." So it is their fault, not the child's, or the partents who aren't supervising their children, that that child is on someone else's property and in is potential danerous situation?

I don't know about the dog laws in YOUR area, but any dog around here not secured must be under the immediate control of the owner. That can be voice control, but bottom line, it simply cannot be running around unsupervised so that someone coming onto your land might be attacked.
Yesterday I dealt with a dog that came onto the neighbors land and tried to attack the 8 year old boy waiting for the school bus and did attck their dog. When I went to the house, the dog tried to attack me. The owner will be getting several tickets

How many kids do you have?  

Im guessing from the sounds of it you dont have any, and as far as California goes, I served here and now live here.  What does that have to do with anything?

If you want everyone to make you feel great about yourdog rippin into a 6 year old then I wouldnt post it here.  And if you cant take some negative feedback or another look at what I might think then.  Fuck you.

 Now Im pretty much done with this topic and if you want to pm me or whatever then go ahead but sounds like your pissed off and Im not.

BTW I have the pool, bbq, ss impala, guns, 2 dogs 3 kids and dont have any problems over in my neigborhood, At least nothing Id post on this web site.

tagged for later.

Quoted: I agree with that ometz.

You make me feel special in a non-gay kinda way.

Quoted: agreed the kid was stupid, but why did your dog perceive some little kid as a 'threat'? i had 2 dalmations, who are extremely protective of their owners, but they always could tell the difference b/w children and people trying to break into our yard......

Because dogs defending there territory is a predatory response. And to a dog something smaller than it is prey or coming after him. You can train a dog to listen to you because you are the alpha dog but all dogs are nothing more than oppertunistic predators, not good or bad.

Quoted: I was attacked by a dog when I was in the 5th grade. The dog was ours, it was a English Shepherd, about a year and a half old.  He tore my face all to heck, I even had bite wounds through my cheeks, and several molars got knocked out, or bit out.  Dont know why he did it, I in no way provoked the dog, I was watching t.v laying on the floor, and the dog was laying next to me, when all of a sudden BAM, he attacked. My parents were there, saw the whole thing, and were just as puzzled as I was. Before that he had never even showed aggression towards anyone at all. We did not keep him long after that.

Kept him about as long as it took to get back from the hospital?

StyrAug...you did the right thing and have the right attitude.

Fuck these monkeys that want to jump in your shit, and tellin you to move...bitchin cause you don't have kids, whining cause they may have wrinkled their skirt...whatever the hell is wrong with them.

I have kids, but before I had kids...I still held the same views.  I don't need to be face down in a urine-stained cot in some crack house in south central LA to know that crack is bad for me...and just because you don't have children doesn't discount your opinion.

You're a responsible owner and I think you didn't do a damn thing wrong. I wish that more people were as conscious about pet ownership as you are, and I think some people should have to use the same training techniques on their kids.

OK....all you people who want to blame owners, dogs, George Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Jesus before "my little angelic child" could do anything wrong....FLAME AWAY

Signed,

Kurt " What more can I really say" Austin