Former Sig Sauer employee indicted for reselling hundreds of guns bought with company discount (Page 2 of 2)
|
Originally Posted By terryj: Y'all must have skipped over this part of the article. Originally Posted By terryj: Originally Posted By Aimless: Originally Posted By Moon-Watcher: How the heck didn't anybody at Sig catch on to the amount of crap he was buying with his employee discount? Y'all must have skipped over this part of the article. He also used the names of fellow co-workers to acquire additional Sig Sauer products at steep discounts, before reselling the weapons online, authorities allege in court records. No we read it but it's still amazing that nobody caught on sooner. These programs have been stress tested and are usually better at finding people improperly using them. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Joined:
Jun 2025
Posts:
649
EE: 100% (30)
UT, USA
|
Originally Posted By Kuglespritz: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/subnetfavoritelol-1033.gif How many guns are allowed in your opinion? Edit to add...how do you know they weren't transferred through an FFL. Looking forward to hearing your answer. Originally Posted By Kuglespritz: Originally Posted By Flushdraw: He sold 100's of guns without an FFL. What an idiot!!! /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/subnetfavoritelol-1033.gif How many guns are allowed in your opinion? Edit to add...how do you know they weren't transferred through an FFL. Looking forward to hearing your answer. It's not our opinion that counts. It's ATF's opinion that counts. The law may be unConstitutional, but ATF's still gonna love him tenderly. I see tons of dealers at gun shows selling their personal collection. They sell a little, buy a little, keeps em out of their wives' way on weekends. ATF doesn't generally worry about those guys. They're flipping used guns w/o a paper trail for the most part. Where ATF does get interested is when new guns repeatedly enter the market w/o a paper trail. One shows up at a crime scene, it gets traced back to the dealer, now they have a name who purchased it. Another shows up at a different crime scene - ATF traces it back to the dealer, same name. Eventually, that's gonna trigger an investigation. If the dude had just gotten an FFL, I'm Totally Not Scamming SIG, LLC, no harm no foul til SIG fired him, but no .fed gun charges. It's not like it's hard to get an FFL. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
|
Originally Posted By backbencher: It's not our opinion that counts. It's ATF's opinion that counts. The law may be unConstitutional, but ATF's still gonna love him tenderly. I see tons of dealers at gun shows selling their personal collection. They sell a little, buy a little, keeps em out of their wives' way on weekends. ATF doesn't generally worry about those guys. They're flipping used guns w/o a paper trail for the most part. Where ATF does get interested is when new guns repeatedly enter the market w/o a paper trail. One shows up at a crime scene, it gets traced back to the dealer, now they have a name who purchased it. Another shows up at a different crime scene - ATF traces it back to the dealer, same name. Eventually, that's gonna trigger an investigation. If the dude had just gotten an FFL, I'm Totally Not Scamming SIG, LLC, no harm no foul til SIG fired him, but no .fed gun charges. It's not like it's hard to get an FFL. That's the point I'm asking. If he violated SIG policy, he was probably fired. Is there enough proof to show what the law specifically states? Maybe there is, but ATF's "opinion" isn't law, although they tried to make up something a couple of years ago about "dealing without a license", which failed and so did their opinion that Bump Stocks are machineguns, Rare Breed Triggers - FRTs are machineguns, Arm Braces are stocks and if you have one they are SBRs, etc. |
|
These dumfuks always go way overboard. A couple, OK. But hundreds? Even with a FFL, he shoudl be fired from Sig for the abuse. With no FFL, he signed up for the ClubFed Tour. There was a cop, IIRC, a year or 2 ago, who did something similar. Dumb greedy fucks |
Feb 2025 It’s 48 to 0 and we’re only 2 minutes into the first quarter
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think. There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think. There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
|
Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: Why did you by 478 copies of the same pistol if they were for your collection? >> The vibe was off on all of them. There's something about those pistols with bad JuJu. I kept hoping I would find one with a blue aura? Any further questions agent? "I heard the phrase, "One is none, and two is one" and I have OCD, so..." |
Originally Posted By triburst1:
I just assumed it was an FBI or ATF surveillance op. Now I'm worried that it might be site staff.
I just assumed it was an FBI or ATF surveillance op. Now I'm worried that it might be site staff.
|
Originally Posted By jough43: I worked at the Remington ammo plant in Arkansas. Employees got fired somewhat often for reselling ammo purchased from company store inside the plant. When Vista bought Remington, they put in a max dollar amount each employee could spend per year in the company store. I’m just curious how much their actual discount was. |
Esstac’s Retarded Social Media Influencer
|
Originally Posted By NachoDip: I’m just curious how much their actual discount was. Originally Posted By NachoDip: Originally Posted By jough43: I worked at the Remington ammo plant in Arkansas. Employees got fired somewhat often for reselling ammo purchased from company store inside the plant. When Vista bought Remington, they put in a max dollar amount each employee could spend per year in the company store. I’m just curious how much their actual discount was. Some of the manufacturer discounts are steep. I've seen some that are 60% off MSRP or more. Sometimes they'll have special deals that are even more. That's one of the reasons they are usually tracked so well. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Joined:
Mar 2021
Posts:
1135
EE: 100% (3)
NH, USA
|
Originally Posted By NachoDip: I’m just curious how much their actual discount was. I knew someone that has a family member that works/worked for SIG. They told me employees are given a coupon (50% off the MSRP of firearms), that they use inside the company store. They got their Cross by using their family member's coupon. |
|
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Some of the manufacturer discounts are steep. I've seen some that are 60% off MSRP or more. Sometimes they'll have special deals that are even more. That's one of the reasons they are usually tracked so well. I guess they see it as a way to make up for literal minimum wage salaries being paid to a majority of their workforce. |
|
Originally Posted By Kuglespritz: That's the point I'm asking. If he violated SIG policy, he was probably fired. Is there enough proof to show what the law specifically states? Maybe there is, but ATF's "opinion" isn't law, although they tried to make up something a couple of years ago about "dealing without a license", which failed and so did their opinion that Bump Stocks are machineguns, Rare Breed Triggers - FRTs are machineguns, Arm Braces are stocks and if you have one they are SBRs, etc. Originally Posted By Kuglespritz: Originally Posted By backbencher: It's not our opinion that counts. It's ATF's opinion that counts. The law may be unConstitutional, but ATF's still gonna love him tenderly. I see tons of dealers at gun shows selling their personal collection. They sell a little, buy a little, keeps em out of their wives' way on weekends. ATF doesn't generally worry about those guys. They're flipping used guns w/o a paper trail for the most part. Where ATF does get interested is when new guns repeatedly enter the market w/o a paper trail. One shows up at a crime scene, it gets traced back to the dealer, now they have a name who purchased it. Another shows up at a different crime scene - ATF traces it back to the dealer, same name. Eventually, that's gonna trigger an investigation. If the dude had just gotten an FFL, I'm Totally Not Scamming SIG, LLC, no harm no foul til SIG fired him, but no .fed gun charges. It's not like it's hard to get an FFL. That's the point I'm asking. If he violated SIG policy, he was probably fired. Is there enough proof to show what the law specifically states? Maybe there is, but ATF's "opinion" isn't law, although they tried to make up something a couple of years ago about "dealing without a license", which failed and so did their opinion that Bump Stocks are machineguns, Rare Breed Triggers - FRTs are machineguns, Arm Braces are stocks and if you have one they are SBRs, etc. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922 (a) It shall be unlawful— (1) for any person— (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
|
Originally Posted By kc-coyote: I guess they see it as a way to make up for literal minimum wage salaries being paid to a majority of their workforce. Originally Posted By kc-coyote: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Some of the manufacturer discounts are steep. I've seen some that are 60% off MSRP or more. Sometimes they'll have special deals that are even more. That's one of the reasons they are usually tracked so well. I guess they see it as a way to make up for literal minimum wage salaries being paid to a majority of their workforce. Maybe that could certainly be part of it. There are other aspects as well. The gun/shooting industry uses it's employees at almost every level to feed product and feedback through those programs. It's an industry where a large number of the employees use the products at some level. I actually wish I had understood the deals and used the programs to my advantage. Lots of them are enough of a discount to buy something and use it thoroughly and then recoup your money. If I had been smart I could have had new scopes and guns almost constantly only being out the original amount. I didn't really get that until I was out of the game and only snagged a few things I held on to. Back when I was doing it the optics companies usually had steep 50%+ discounts. My customers put a lot of weight on my opinions and what I personally bought and the manufacturers know that. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
|
Originally Posted By terryj: Y'all must have skipped over this part of the article. Originally Posted By terryj: Originally Posted By Aimless: Originally Posted By Moon-Watcher: How the heck didn't anybody at Sig catch on to the amount of crap he was buying with his employee discount? Y'all must have skipped over this part of the article. He also used the names of fellow co-workers to acquire additional Sig Sauer products at steep discounts, before reselling the weapons online, authorities allege in court records. Do the manufacturers require 4473's when they sell guns to employees? If so, how did he "use the names of fellow co-workers" to acquire the guns? Might be a problem with the "are you the actual purchaser" question on the 4473. As highly regulated as firearms sales are, gotta wonder about a process that allowed this guy to exploit it. And, how was he "selling them online"? Sales across state lines have to be shipped to an FFL. |
|
Originally Posted By Makarov: ATF considers buying guns with the intention of flipping for a profit to be “in the business” EVEN if you go through an FFL. Originally Posted By Makarov: Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: I have no idea how he was able to operate at that scale for any length of time. I wonder how many others were in on it? Originally Posted By Powerkicker: I can see sig firing him, but arrested? I’m no attorney but I’m guessing that if he set up a system to defraud Sig it could fall under embezzlement or something similar. He also operated over state lines so the feds probably have multiple fronts to go after him. No details about how he acquired "hundreds of guns" and "sold the guns nationwide". Legally, he would have had to ship them to FFL's for transfer to an out-of-state buyer. ATF considers buying guns with the intention of flipping for a profit to be “in the business” EVEN if you go through an FFL. Perfectly legal for a collector to sell personal guns, even for a profit. The "intent" come in when recent acquisitions are flipped X100's. A problem though, even for "collectors" is that ATF has never defined the number of transactions that constitute "engaging in the business" and has applied that standard arbitrarily. The subject of this conversation was obviously an egrigious offender, but he could have been busted for a much lower, un-defined, volume too. |
Joined:
Nov 2022
Posts:
446
EE: 0% (0)
OH, USA
|
Originally Posted By Flushdraw: He sold 100's of guns without an FFL. What an idiot!!! Yeah he should have worked for GM and sold a couple corvettes a year |
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.
Member
Joined:
Jun 2022
Posts:
10474
EE: 100% (3)
IA, USA
|
Originally Posted By Raidersgone: I remember that story. Whatever came of that after the governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders got involved? Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Originally Posted By pwcb2005: He is lucky he wasn't killed! They kill you in Arkansas for that! I remember that story. Whatever came of that after the governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders got involved? Web has multiple reports of "declined prosecution" and "ruled justified". Another report of a wrongful death suit filed by the widow. Nothing about any involvement by the governor. |
|
Originally Posted By Aimless: This. Originally Posted By Aimless: Originally Posted By Moon-Watcher: How the heck didn't anybody at Sig catch on to the amount of crap he was buying with his employee discount? The article says that he also bought guns with OTHER employee's names/discounts, so it seems like not all of them were in his name. Still, hundreds of guns? Wow. |
“A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.” -- Tsunetomo Yamamoto
|
Originally Posted By Kuglespritz: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/subnetfavoritelol-1033.gif How many guns are allowed in your opinion? Edit to add...how do you know they weren't transferred through an FFL. Looking forward to hearing your answer. Originally Posted By Kuglespritz: Originally Posted By Flushdraw: He sold 100's of guns without an FFL. What an idiot!!! /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/subnetfavoritelol-1033.gif How many guns are allowed in your opinion? Edit to add...how do you know they weren't transferred through an FFL. Looking forward to hearing your answer. I don't think the implications is that he was selling the guns without the sale going through an FFL. He was probably selling them on Gunbroker or something like that, requiring buyers to provide a receiving FFL to ship the guns to. The implication is that he was "in the business" of selling guns for profit, which requires that he have his own FFL. The ATF has always been a bit ambiguous about exactly what that means, and how many guns (per year) that involves ... but someone buying hundreds of guns (at below market price) for the express purpose of then re-selling them for profit, seems to pretty solidly meet the definition of someone being in the business of selling guns for the purpose of making money. |
“A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.” -- Tsunetomo Yamamoto
|
Originally Posted By Powerkicker: I can see sig firing him, but arrested? Wire fraud was the big one. https://www.justice.gov/usao-nh/pr/manchester-man-indicted-unlicensed-firearms-dealing-and-defrauding-his-employer |
|
Originally Posted By Makarov: ATF considers buying guns with the intention of flipping for a profit to be “in the business” EVEN if you go through an FFL. Originally Posted By Makarov: Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: I have no idea how he was able to operate at that scale for any length of time. I wonder how many others were in on it? Originally Posted By Powerkicker: I can see sig firing him, but arrested? I’m no attorney but I’m guessing that if he set up a system to defraud Sig it could fall under embezzlement or something similar. He also operated over state lines so the feds probably have multiple fronts to go after him. No details about how he acquired "hundreds of guns" and "sold the guns nationwide". Legally, he would have had to ship them to FFL's for transfer to an out-of-state buyer. ATF considers buying guns with the intention of flipping for a profit to be “in the business” EVEN if you go through an FFL. Now that’s just pedantic retardation to justify being shitasses without the balls to go after real criminals. GayTF loves gloryholes and going after people that violate their “regulations.” My question is, how much is the employee discount? IME, you just end up with something like 10% off, or distributor pricing, so there’s no real loss of profit for Sig. But the middlemen dealers and distributors would not be happy about the competition. |
|
Originally Posted By Plank_Spanker: NOT GUILTY! Originally Posted By Plank_Spanker: Originally Posted By Flushdraw: He sold 100's of guns without an FFL. What an idiot!!! NOT GUILTY! And the wire fraud? |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
|
Originally Posted By terryj: Y'all must have skipped over this part of the article. Originally Posted By terryj: Originally Posted By Aimless: Originally Posted By Moon-Watcher: How the heck didn't anybody at Sig catch on to the amount of crap he was buying with his employee discount? Y'all must have skipped over this part of the article. He also used the names of fellow co-workers to acquire additional Sig Sauer products at steep discounts, before reselling the weapons online, authorities allege in court records. It's GD. If it isn't in the title it doesn't exist. Reading even the OP is a needless burden and an unnecessary barrier to posting in the thread. Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By terryj: Originally Posted By Aimless: Originally Posted By Moon-Watcher: How the heck didn't anybody at Sig catch on to the amount of crap he was buying with his employee discount? Y'all must have skipped over this part of the article. He also used the names of fellow co-workers to acquire additional Sig Sauer products at steep discounts, before reselling the weapons online, authorities allege in court records. Do the manufacturers require 4473's when they sell guns to employees? If so, how did he "use the names of fellow co-workers" to acquire the guns? Might be a problem with the "are you the actual purchaser" question on the 4473. As highly regulated as firearms sales are, gotta wonder about a process that allowed this guy to exploit it. And, how was he "selling them online"? Sales across state lines have to be shipped to an FFL. Have the transfer done by your friendly FFL. That's the way a lot of discount programs work: I buy the gun using my info and they ship it to a dealer that actually does the transfer. Sig sees Joe, Bob, Sam, and Frank buying the gun so they don't care. |
|
I can see the company terminating him if he violated policy. I could also see the feds coming after him for tax evasion if he didn’t claim the income. If he purchased the firearms with the intent to resell for a profit that’s also an issue for him with the feds. Moral of the story, enjoy your employee discount. Don’t try to fuck your employer by not following rules - if there are any. Also, don’t do things that will have alphabet people knocking on your door. |
Indelible in the Hippocampus, the Sylvan
Joined:
Nov 2000
Posts:
99775
EE: 100% (7)
CA, USA
|
Originally Posted By Kuglespritz: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/subnetfavoritelol-1033.gif How many guns are allowed in your opinion? Edit to add...how do you know they weren't transferred through an FFL. Looking forward to hearing your answer. Originally Posted By Kuglespritz: Originally Posted By Flushdraw: He sold 100's of guns without an FFL. What an idiot!!! /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/subnetfavoritelol-1033.gif How many guns are allowed in your opinion? Edit to add...how do you know they weren't transferred through an FFL. Looking forward to hearing your answer. Now if he didn't use an FFL |
"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared so we may always be free." Ronald Reagan 1984
"Mitch the democrat bitch"
2026, the bigger better democrat election fraud
"Mitch the democrat bitch"
2026, the bigger better democrat election fraud
|
Originally Posted By DTFD714: I can see the company terminating him if he violated policy. I could also see the feds coming after him for tax evasion if he didn’t claim the income. If he purchased the firearms with the intent to resell for a profit that’s also an issue for him with the feds. Moral of the story, enjoy your employee discount. Don’t try to fuck your employer by not following rules - if there are any. Also, don’t do things that will have alphabet people knocking on your door. I expect SIG will make the program stricter and less generous, now that they have the benefit of hindsight. |
|
Originally Posted By diesel1: Perfectly legal for a collector to sell personal guns, even for a profit. The "intent" come in when recent acquisitions are flipped X100's. A problem though, even for "collectors" is that ATF has never defined the number of transactions that constitute "engaging in the business" and has applied that standard arbitrarily. The subject of this conversation was obviously an egrigious offender, but he could have been busted for a much lower, un-defined, volume too. Originally Posted By diesel1: Perfectly legal for a collector to sell personal guns, even for a profit. The "intent" come in when recent acquisitions are flipped X100's. A problem though, even for "collectors" is that ATF has never defined the number of transactions that constitute "engaging in the business" and has applied that standard arbitrarily. The subject of this conversation was obviously an egrigious offender, but he could have been busted for a much lower, un-defined, volume too. A few years back I did a deep dive into the people who were indicted for dealing without a license. Looking at the average number of guns sold and the timeframe... if you're flipping more than two a month regularly and constantly over several years then you're skating on thin ice. Originally Posted By rb889: My question is, how much is the employee discount? IME, you just end up with something like 10% off, or distributor pricing, so there’s no real loss of profit for Sig. But the middlemen dealers and distributors would not be happy about the competition. Someone mentioned in an earlier post that employee pricing was half MSRP, so they're paying a lot less than distributors and dealers are. |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
|
Some additional details in this article: ...As for the wire fraud charges, Goulet would allegedly disguise the Venmo payments by using a pizza or celebration emoji. He accepted the payment of $1,500 for two P320 pistols, two P226 pistols, and one P365 pistol, according to court documents. Goulet had to provide written verification confirming that all firearms and ammunition were removed from his residence regardless of ownership. The statute for wire fraud calls for up to 20 years in prison on each of the four counts of wire fraud in Goulet’s indictment. He also faces up to five years if found guilty of dealing in firearms without a license... $1500 for 5 pistols - he must have been getting a heck of a discount in order to make money. |
