User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
PA, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 12:37:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creatyre: Responses embedded. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creatyre: Originally Posted By xd675: Anyone with LE experience please: Why would you put off a search warrant when less people are on site? Depending on the case and what you're looking for(which does not apply here), you might want to ensure that the suspect is on scene because he might be carrying what you're looking for. Wouldnt that be safer for personnel? Less people involved will always be safer, yes. Would local cops be told the guy was being investigated for selling firearms without a license? I'd hope a local agency would nope out of that. Is there any reason I'm missing other than they were seeking a confrontation? I would absolutely expect anyone involved in executing the warrant to be briefed on the what and why, and definitely right before it's carried out. Not all local agencies are the same. Some good, some bad. Responses embedded. My thoughts as well. Even rudimentary surveillance needed to see if the victim was home would have caught him hauling a pile of weapons out. I'm curious what the number of guns they saw as too many. I really hope the basis for this isnt "hurrduurrr had a table at gun show must be dealer huuurrrduuuurrrr". |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 5:25:16 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jackslack: We are not free. Not as bad as many countries. But if you think America still exists like it did for your father and grandfather, you're delusional. What he said. What I've said for 40 years. Daw several mentions about cameras? Be sure they run without electricity. They cut power to the poor bastards house prior to kicking in the door. Widow needs to sue the fuck out of the ATF. Arfcom should support her with funding. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 5:45:18 AM EDT
[#3]
And the GOP continues to fund them, why?
 Keep barking, little doggie. I'm sure it is good for fundraising. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 5:53:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: brodband8]
[#4]
It's fairly common practice to tape/ put something over the doorbell camera during the process of serving a warrant and raid. It's for officer/agent safety.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 6:01:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bulldog1967: And the GOP continues to fund them, why? Keep barking, little doggie. I'm sure it is good for fundraising. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 6:07:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOTHERmaninblack: You misspelled counterrevolution. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOTHERmaninblack: Originally Posted By wolfdentd: And then there are the boot licking fed BOIS in here that try to say there won't be a civil war.........We are already there and they are killing us. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 6:20:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: xerxes2695]
[#7]
What a shit fest. Why not just call the guy and tell him to come in?
They killed him over a subjective requirement to fill out some paperwork. |
|
|
|
AL, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 6:27:24 AM EDT
[#8]
I PRAY HIS WIFE AND HER LAWYERS GET SO MANY MILLIONS ATF HAS TO GO ON A WATER AND CRACKER DIET.
|
|
|
AL, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 6:36:27 AM EDT
[#9]
What a bunch of theater, Jim Jordan is just as responsible for this as anybody else in that Congress these assholes keep passing these continuing resolutions and these Omnibus spending bills making sure that f****** Stasi organization has a huge budget.
They should cut the budget down way way down or dissolve the agency it's not even needed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 6:57:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: It's fairly common practice to tape/ put something over the doorbell camera during the process of serving a warrant and raid. It's for officer/agent safety. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 7:08:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: It's fairly common practice to tape/ put something over the doorbell camera during the process of serving a warrant and raid. It's for officer/agent safety. Lol GTFO with that bullshit, if they wanted safety they wouldn't be raiding and murdering. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 7:10:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: brodband8]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LeadBreakfast: Lol GTFO with that bullshit, if they wanted safety they wouldn't be raiding and murdering. Clearly you've had too much lead for breakfast and don't know how it works. If you want to know why they cover the camera it is because when serving a search warrant they don't want whoever is inside and potentially dangerous to have any advantage and see where officers/agents are standing. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 7:16:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LeadBreakfast: Lol GTFO with that bullshit, if they wanted safety they wouldn't be raiding and murdering. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LeadBreakfast: Originally Posted By brodband8: It's fairly common practice to tape/ put something over the doorbell camera during the process of serving a warrant and raid. It's for officer/agent safety. Lol GTFO with that bullshit, if they wanted safety they wouldn't be raiding and murdering. Exactly. This was over a licensing dispute. One they needed more evidence to even charge him with, hence the search. If anything, obscuring the camera increased their risk by preventing him from using it to identify them prior to making forced entry. |
|
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 7:22:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naporter: Exactly. This was over a licensing dispute. One they needed more evidence to even charge him with, hence the search. If anything, obscuring the camera increased their risk by preventing him from using it to identify them prior to making forced entry. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naporter: Originally Posted By LeadBreakfast: Originally Posted By brodband8: It's fairly common practice to tape/ put something over the doorbell camera during the process of serving a warrant and raid. It's for officer/agent safety. Lol GTFO with that bullshit, if they wanted safety they wouldn't be raiding and murdering. Exactly. This was over a licensing dispute. One they needed more evidence to even charge him with, hence the search. If anything, obscuring the camera increased their risk by preventing him from using it to identify them prior to making forced entry. That would never be considered in JBT-think. Ref the airman shooting thread where the cop did not even make himself visible through the peephole. Police training has just recently moved towards de-escalating situations rather than going for max drama. A bit late but a ray of sunshine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 7:23:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: It's fairly common practice to tape/ put something over the doorbell camera during the process of serving a warrant and raid. It's for officer/agent safety. Everything up to, and including, murder is under the umbrella of "officer safety". |
|
|
|
SOM
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 7:25:06 AM EDT
[#16]
I read the search warrant application and search warrant. I think there was probable cause for the search. But I didn't see anything in the warrant authorizing a no knock raid. Therefore, I believe this was a standard knock and announce, where the police knock loudly, announce their presence, and give the homeowner a reasonable time to open the door. Taping over the ring camera defeats the purpose of knock and announce. The whole point is that the homeowner is supposed to be alerted that police are there. Someone taping over a camera and then knocking loudly on the door is suspicious - now a homeowner might reasonably fear it's home invaders claiming to be police.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 7:36:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By danno-in-michigan: I read the search warrant application and search warrant. I think there was probable cause for the search. But I didn't see anything in the warrant authorizing a no knock raid. Therefore, I believe this was a standard knock and announce, where the police knock loudly, announce their presence, and give the homeowner a reasonable time to open the door. Taping over the ring camera defeats the purpose of knock and announce. The whole point is that the homeowner is supposed to be alerted that police are there. Someone taping over a camera and then knocking loudly on the door is suspicious - now a homeowner might reasonably fear it's home invaders claiming to be police. We're long past the point where yelling police can be considered sufficient identification. Particularly if you're taping over cameras and hiding from the peephole. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 7:54:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 33hounds: Nothing will be done about this as usual, it's just a show. They can kill us but don't you dare even shoot at one of them, or worse. Unfortunately this. 
|
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 7:57:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Jim Jordan for president.
|
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 8:06:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Creatyre]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By danno-in-michigan: I read the search warrant application and search warrant. I think there was probable cause for the search. But I didn't see anything in the warrant authorizing a no knock raid. Therefore, I believe this was a standard knock and announce, where the police knock loudly, announce their presence, and give the homeowner a reasonable time to open the door. Taping over the ring camera defeats the purpose of knock and announce. The whole point is that the homeowner is supposed to be alerted that police are there. Someone taping over a camera and then knocking loudly on the door is suspicious - now a homeowner might reasonably fear it's home invaders claiming to be police. @danno-in-michigan Any chance you have a link for the application and search warrant? |
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 8:11:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: Clearly you've had too much lead for breakfast and don't know how it works. If you want to know why they cover the camera it is because when serving a search warrant they don't want whoever is inside and potentially dangerous to have any advantage and see where officers/agents are standing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: Originally Posted By LeadBreakfast: Lol GTFO with that bullshit, if they wanted safety they wouldn't be raiding and murdering. Clearly you've had too much lead for breakfast and don't know how it works. If you want to know why they cover the camera it is because when serving a search warrant they don't want whoever is inside and potentially dangerous to have any advantage and see where officers/agents are standing. No. Let’s be honest here about the full design of this type of raid. They intend to create as much confusion and fear as possible hoping people won’t resist. The problem is that will cause many otherwise good people to reach for weapons to defend themselves because they have no way of knowing who is breaking in. To reduce the risk to themselves, the only ones at the scene who signed up for a risky job, they create a situation where things like a man dying over an unpaid 200 dollar tax happens because they are fearing for their life. I’m done with it. If I’m ever on a jury and a raid is conducted like this that is not about saving hostages I’m voting not guilty for whatever the person is charged with, or holding out for maximum financial penalties. I hope more people take this stance to create an auto lose condition for the cops. This isn’t Iraq. |
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 8:19:39 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd675: No. Let’s be honest here about the full design of this type of raid. They intend to create as much confusion and fear as possible hoping people won’t resist. The problem is that will cause many otherwise good people to reach for weapons to defend themselves because they have no way of knowing who is breaking in. To reduce the risk to themselves, the only ones at the scene who signed up for a risky job, they create a situation where things like a man dying over an unpaid 200 dollar tax happens because they are fearing for their life. I’m done with it. If I’m ever on a jury and a raid is conducted like this that is not about saving hostages I’m voting not guilty for whatever the person is charged with, or holding out for maximum financial penalties. I hope more people take this stance to create an auto lose condition for the cops. This isn’t Iraq. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd675: Originally Posted By brodband8: Originally Posted By LeadBreakfast: Lol GTFO with that bullshit, if they wanted safety they wouldn't be raiding and murdering. Clearly you've had too much lead for breakfast and don't know how it works. If you want to know why they cover the camera it is because when serving a search warrant they don't want whoever is inside and potentially dangerous to have any advantage and see where officers/agents are standing. No. Let’s be honest here about the full design of this type of raid. They intend to create as much confusion and fear as possible hoping people won’t resist. The problem is that will cause many otherwise good people to reach for weapons to defend themselves because they have no way of knowing who is breaking in. To reduce the risk to themselves, the only ones at the scene who signed up for a risky job, they create a situation where things like a man dying over an unpaid 200 dollar tax happens because they are fearing for their life. I’m done with it. If I’m ever on a jury and a raid is conducted like this that is not about saving hostages I’m voting not guilty for whatever the person is charged with, or holding out for maximum financial penalties. I hope more people take this stance to create an auto lose condition for the cops. This isn’t Iraq. As above +1. My son was in Iraq. The ROE were much stricter than for LE here in CONUS. |
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 8:29:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/ATF-NEVERFORGETTHESEARETHEKINDOFPEOPLEDE-3221682.JPG Pretty much. The one of the biggest questions from the Waco raid. Where is the front door and happen to it? Also, FATFE. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 8:39:40 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: Clearly you've had too much lead for breakfast and don't know how it works. If you want to know why they cover the camera it is because when serving a search warrant they don't want whoever is inside and potentially dangerous to have any advantage and see where officers/agents are standing. No shit huh? You overhear that while servicing the FATF glory hole? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 8:50:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Wonder how that would play out at my house?
Solar and hired wired cameras, some 20' plus high Back up generator Driveway alarm with an 800' driveway Motion lights on all sides at the eves I'd guess they'd come in guns blazing and shoot my dogs |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 9:01:56 AM EDT
[#26]
It is going to come down to November. They are going to do the same thing and our reaction will determine whether the kind of thing discussed in this thread intensifies or stops.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 9:03:30 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCPhoenix: When the man comes around 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 9:11:16 AM EDT
[#28]
Your local sherriff should never, ever, loan deputies or equipment to federal agencies.
The worst is an FBI task force. That is where you send your better deputies to learn to violate the constitution, lie, cheat and steal. |
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 9:11:50 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shrimpmoney: He said $265k a year and ran the Bill and Hillary Clinton National Airport. I think the guy is pretty easy to find with that position. What's the point of coming in in the middle of darkness Did anyone try to explain this? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 9:53:47 AM EDT
[#30]
|
|
|
|
SOM
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 9:55:08 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creatyre: @danno-in-michigan Any chance you have a link for the application and search warrant? https://www.kark.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/85/2024/03/Ex.-1-Search-Warrant-003.pdf |
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:03:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shrimpmoney: He said $265k a year and ran the Bill and Hillary Clinton National Airport. I think the guy is pretty easy to find with that position. What’s the point of coming in in the middle of darkness And because he worked at an airport the odds of him being armed while at work are close to zero. So if he was so dangerous why not go visit him in his office? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:04:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Lancelot]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wyorock: The claim is they week before they staged up and then didn't go because guy wasn't home. Since it was a search warrant and not an arrest warrant this is beyond bad and clearly show they wanted a confrontation. Or it shows they wanted to catch him with the contraband, whatever it was, to prove possession . |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:05:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MotorMouth: Another reason to put your security camera system on a UPS. And with actual wires, not wifi. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:06:59 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lancelot: Or it shows they wanted to catch him with the contraband, whatever it was, to prove possession . He doesn't need to be there to prove something is in his possession if it's in his home when they search it. ATF is asshole and will forever be asshole. They wanted a confrontation and they got what they wanted. No different than the branch dividians. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:12:08 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colt_thompson: Wonder how that would play out at my house? Solar and hired wired cameras, some 20' plus high Back up generator Driveway alarm with an 800' driveway Motion lights on all sides at the eves I'd guess they'd come in guns blazing and shoot my dogs They would have a drone fly overhead and drop incendiary devices on your roof |
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:17:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd675: No. Let’s be honest here about the full design of this type of raid. They intend to create as much confusion and fear as possible hoping people won’t resist. The problem is that will cause many otherwise good people to reach for weapons to defend themselves because they have no way of knowing who is breaking in. To reduce the risk to themselves, the only ones at the scene who signed up for a risky job, they create a situation where things like a man dying over an unpaid 200 dollar tax happens because they are fearing for their life. I’m done with it. If I’m ever on a jury and a raid is conducted like this that is not about saving hostages I’m voting not guilty for whatever the person is charged with, or holding out for maximum financial penalties. I hope more people take this stance to create an auto lose condition for the cops. This isn’t Iraq. 10 years ago I would have disagreed. Today i’m 100% onboard. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:17:30 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Enzo300: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/461570/Claymores_jpg-3221919.JPG https://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/10/absolved-chapter-one-battle-of-sipsey.html |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:18:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskey_bravo: He doesn't need to be there to prove something is in his possession if it's in his home when they search it. ATF is asshole and will forever be asshole. They wanted a confrontation and they got what they wanted. No different than the branch dividians. Not true at all. Spouse, family, friends, etc. They needed his phones. They needed his computer. Otherwise, they would need a separate warrant for every location where those things are in order to seize them. Tactically, it is a poor choice. Him in the driveway would have been my preferred method. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:19:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Naporter]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskey_bravo: He doesn't need to be there to prove something is in his possession if it's in his home when they search it. ATF is asshole and will forever be asshole. They wanted a confrontation and they got what they wanted. No different than the branch dividians. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskey_bravo: Originally Posted By Lancelot: Or it shows they wanted to catch him with the contraband, whatever it was, to prove possession . He doesn't need to be there to prove something is in his possession if it's in his home when they search it. ATF is asshole and will forever be asshole. They wanted a confrontation and they got what they wanted. No different than the branch dividians. This, and they also never alleged he had unlawful firearms in his possession. Their claim was he was "in the business" without having an FFL. The warrant posted provides a lot of details and raises the question why they didn't just arrest him. He was playing the role of a dealer, transferring to himself on a 4473 for later resale. A few potheads were found with one of the ones he sold in their vehicle at a traffic stop. One he originally purchased was found in possession of a 15 year old gang member. The ATF planted a tracking device on his vehicle in February. They used an undercover agent to purchase from him at a gunshow, where he also admitted to performing interstate transfers without passing through a dealer. And still, none of that justifies the violent execution of the warrant that occurred that put their own officers at unnecessary risk. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:20:06 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOTHERmaninblack: The last time the Republicans tried to defund and disband the ATF, the Murrah Building blew up. Purely coincidental, I'm sure. And if I recall correctly, no ATF agents/special agents were in the building at the time. Purely coincidental, I'm sure. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:25:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Rheinmetall792]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naporter: Koresh would have probably met with the sheriff if requested. He called them when ATF showed up. Yes, but so many Feds have an insatiable thirst for blood, coupled with a God complex. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:35:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd675: No. Let’s be honest here about the full design of this type of raid. They intend to create as much confusion and fear as possible hoping people won’t resist. The problem is that will cause many otherwise good people to reach for weapons to defend themselves because they have no way of knowing who is breaking in. To reduce the risk to themselves, the only ones at the scene who signed up for a risky job, they create a situation where things like a man dying over an unpaid 200 dollar tax happens because they are fearing for their life. I’m done with it. If I’m ever on a jury and a raid is conducted like this that is not about saving hostages I’m voting not guilty for whatever the person is charged with, or holding out for maximum financial penalties. I hope more people take this stance to create an auto lose condition for the cops. This isn’t Iraq. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd675: Originally Posted By brodband8: Originally Posted By LeadBreakfast: Lol GTFO with that bullshit, if they wanted safety they wouldn't be raiding and murdering. Clearly you've had too much lead for breakfast and don't know how it works. If you want to know why they cover the camera it is because when serving a search warrant they don't want whoever is inside and potentially dangerous to have any advantage and see where officers/agents are standing. No. Let’s be honest here about the full design of this type of raid. They intend to create as much confusion and fear as possible hoping people won’t resist. The problem is that will cause many otherwise good people to reach for weapons to defend themselves because they have no way of knowing who is breaking in. To reduce the risk to themselves, the only ones at the scene who signed up for a risky job, they create a situation where things like a man dying over an unpaid 200 dollar tax happens because they are fearing for their life. I’m done with it. If I’m ever on a jury and a raid is conducted like this that is not about saving hostages I’m voting not guilty for whatever the person is charged with, or holding out for maximum financial penalties. I hope more people take this stance to create an auto lose condition for the cops. This isn’t Iraq. Ayup. As a general rule, laws and policy centered around ‘officer safety’, fly in the face of the BoR. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 10:39:10 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shrimpmoney: He said $265k a year and ran the Bill and Hillary Clinton National Airport. I think the guy is pretty easy to find with that position. What’s the point of coming in in the middle of darkness Exactly. Americans wanted the militarization of police, and they got it. |
|
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 12:05:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By danno-in-michigan: https://www.kark.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/85/2024/03/Ex.-1-Search-Warrant-003.pdf Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By danno-in-michigan: Originally Posted By Creatyre: @danno-in-michigan Any chance you have a link for the application and search warrant? https://www.kark.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/85/2024/03/Ex.-1-Search-Warrant-003.pdf Thank you. So that answers why they wanted him on the premises, they wanted his phone. |
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 12:07:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskey_bravo: He doesn't need to be there to prove something is in his possession if it's in his home when they search it. ATF is asshole and will forever be asshole. They wanted a confrontation and they got what they wanted. No different than the branch dividians. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskey_bravo: Originally Posted By Lancelot: Or it shows they wanted to catch him with the contraband, whatever it was, to prove possession . He doesn't need to be there to prove something is in his possession if it's in his home when they search it. ATF is asshole and will forever be asshole. They wanted a confrontation and they got what they wanted. No different than the branch dividians. The warrant includes his phone. Generally, we carry our phones on our person. I don't support the ATF at all, and I'm sure they could have arranged a second team to search him at his office simultaneously. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 12:10:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creatyre: The warrant includes his phone. Generally, we carry our phones on our person. I don't support the ATF at all, and I'm sure they could have arranged a second team to search him at his office simultaneously. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creatyre: Originally Posted By whiskey_bravo: Originally Posted By Lancelot: Or it shows they wanted to catch him with the contraband, whatever it was, to prove possession . He doesn't need to be there to prove something is in his possession if it's in his home when they search it. ATF is asshole and will forever be asshole. They wanted a confrontation and they got what they wanted. No different than the branch dividians. The warrant includes his phone. Generally, we carry our phones on our person. I don't support the ATF at all, and I'm sure they could have arranged a second team to search him at his office simultaneously. Or just showed up during daytime and politely knocked on the door and shown him the search warrant. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 12:15:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xciapup: Your local sherriff should never, ever, loan deputies or equipment to federal agencies. The worst is an FBI task force. That is where you send your better deputies to learn to violate the constitution, lie, cheat and steal. This. A thousand percent. |
|
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 12:17:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naporter: Or just showed up during daytime and politely knocked on the door and shown him the search warrant. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naporter: Originally Posted By Creatyre: Originally Posted By whiskey_bravo: Originally Posted By Lancelot: Or it shows they wanted to catch him with the contraband, whatever it was, to prove possession . He doesn't need to be there to prove something is in his possession if it's in his home when they search it. ATF is asshole and will forever be asshole. They wanted a confrontation and they got what they wanted. No different than the branch dividians. The warrant includes his phone. Generally, we carry our phones on our person. I don't support the ATF at all, and I'm sure they could have arranged a second team to search him at his office simultaneously. Or just showed up during daytime and politely knocked on the door and shown him the search warrant. After reading the search warrant application, it does appear that the guy was very clearly strawman purchasing and running a business selling firearms. I wouldn't want to be the one politely knocking on the door of someone facing decades in prison and with a whole lot to lose. So, like I said, grab him outside of his home. |
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 5/24/2024 12:22:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: It's fairly common practice to tape/ put something over the doorbell camera during the process of serving a warrant and raid. It's for officer/agent safety. Wouldn't it be even safer to execute the search warrant when the subject isn't there? |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File
Attached File
