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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:19:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 56xdx_Z: Haha, the golden Angel Moroni 200ft in the air. It's going to be like the eye of Sauron up there keeping the town safe from Gadianton robbers and masturbation |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:22:24 PM EDT
[#2]
“It’s basically my front yard”
But it’s not, because it’s not your property. Don’t like it, buy it. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:29:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Maybe the people complaining should have bought the land when it was for sale. Is freedom scary now OP?
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:30:43 PM EDT
[#4]
BTW, Fairview is a wealthy area. But there is no downtown. There is some retail. Mostly it consists of very large lots with large expensive home. Property taxes are high.
It’s an area. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:36:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Azygos]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: Go figure.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: Originally Posted By 80085: The city says it's received 350 messages from Fairview residents about the proposal. The vast majority, 87% of them, expressed opposition to the temple's design. It's received more than twice as many from non-residents, with 89% of those messages in favor of it. Go figure. And those “in-favor” messages all probably said it was a necessary part of worship. It isn’t. The spires are ornamental. They don’t do any typical worship rites that require Tower of Babel-esque elevation above the countryside. Spires have been social or legal battles with temple construction in Paris, Hong Kong, Boston, Alberta, Hawaii… If local codes say a maximum height of 35’, what’s the reason for needing to be 5x that? That’s not sending a message of humility to the community. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:40:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KELBEAST: “It’s basically my front yard” But it’s not, because it’s not your property. Don’t like it, buy it. Don't like the building and zoning regulations of a particular municipality? Don't buy property there to build your prohibited structure. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:45:50 PM EDT
[#7]
The town should build a 200 foot statute of a printing press next door.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:46:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pair_of_ACES]
[#8]
This is my area, it’s a big thing right now.
A lot of people are less concerned about the obnoxiously high cult-tower and more concerned about the massive influx of traffic on an already semi-rural narrow road. Funny thing is, the property was originally going to be sold to a group who wanted to build a two story medical building but the townspeople freaked out and nixed it. Bet they’re wishing for that doctors office now.. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:48:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nvroundman: Yeah, 20 or 30 feet. Not hundreds. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nvroundman: Originally Posted By Kanati: Getting upset about church steeples on the skyline seems a bit excessive. Growing up around small towns, the churches downtown were always the tallest buildings around. Yeah, 20 or 30 feet. Not hundreds. Yeah, a 40’ bell tower is different than 186’ |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:49:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Traditionally, the church was the dominant building in a town - that or the castle. Later court houses attempted to do something very similar - where the government wanted to be the object of veneration. In my town, other than the water tower - the Church is the first tall building on the hilltop that your eye is drawn to.
That said, I understand that cities put in codes to control their appearance. Most people don't want a high rise in their neighborhood unless their neighborhood is already that way. Most people don't want a new dominating structure if their community does not already have dominating structures. In a neighborhood limited to 2 story (2.5 maybe) residential buildings, building a 6 story Church (ok, it probably only has 3 stories - but they have 20' ceilings) plus a 100 foot steeple on top is kind of overkill. It screams that this structure dominates their daily lives - and outside of Utah, for this congregation that usually is not the case. Same reason I probably would not want to see a major Muslim church on the hilltop overlooking my town. |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:50:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Cant speak to the Law, but they aren't keeping it Country with this. I do like their gigantic temples in large cities; used to think the one in Oakland when I was a kid looked badass. https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/23/12/10/21799437/4/720x0.webp Didn't john densmore of the Doors say he used to go up there for inspiration |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:50:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: This is my area, it’s a big thing right now. A lot of people are less concerned about the obnoxiously high cult-tower and more concerned about the massive influx on traffic on an already semi-rural narrow road. Funny thing is, the property was originally going to be sold to a group who wanted to build a two story medical building but the townspeople freaked out and mixed it. Bet they’re wishing for that doctors office now.. Put an In N Out Burger there instead. That way everyone will be pissed off about the traffic. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:50:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bunchofmidgets: quoted for posterity Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bunchofmidgets: Originally Posted By HIMARS13A: Why should we care that a bunch of whiny losers are upset about what someone is doing with their private property? quoted for posterity LOL that is what GD told me about the bastard corporate ranch that put up more than 100 wind farm turbines right next to the Grand Canyon. “It’s their property!”. Yep it sure is and so is the Mormon temple land. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:53:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan]
[#14]
Looks to be in a residential zone which restricts structures to two stories or 35', whichever is less
They can do this two ways. They can apply to change the zone on the property to something more favorable to their design. They can also apply for a conditional use permit, which is what it sounds like they have done. They really should have had the property rezoned first, then apply for a conditional use permit. What the city can't do is rule against it in an arbitrary and capricious manner. There is public comment and there is public clamor. People screaming we don't want it is not a reason to deny it and it will kill them in court if that's what they base a denial on. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:56:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Fruit loops
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:56:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Azygos: Put an In N Out Burger there instead. That way everyone will be pissed off about the traffic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Azygos: Originally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: This is my area, it’s a big thing right now. A lot of people are less concerned about the obnoxiously high cult-tower and more concerned about the massive influx on traffic on an already semi-rural narrow road. Funny thing is, the property was originally going to be sold to a group who wanted to build a two story medical building but the townspeople freaked out and mixed it. Bet they’re wishing for that doctors office now.. Put an In N Out Burger there instead. That way everyone will be pissed off about the traffic. There's an In N Out 1 mile away. |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:58:34 PM EDT
[#17]
This is nothing new. Literally everytime and everywhere they go to build a temple you have people protesting its construction. Even in idaho and utah where there is a huge Mormon population.
Yet it gets built and the area around it excels and property values skyrocket. Will happen time and time again. Mormons are by far and away the best neighbors to have. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:00:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DMG-LDS]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: This is my area, it’s a big thing right now. A lot of people are less concerned about the obnoxiously high cult-tower and more concerned about the massive influx on traffic on an already semi-rural narrow road. Funny thing is, the property was originally going to be sold to a group who wanted to build a two story medical building but the townspeople freaked out and mixed it. Bet they’re wishing for that doctors office now.. I drive by 3 LDS temples here in AZ, 2 pretty regularly. There really isnt any traffic ETA: The Chick fil a a mile from the Gilbert Temple has more traffic |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:10:18 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: The proposed spired here are pretty far outside normal 'tall church' experience. This is a 175' lighthouse in a residential area, to provide some sense of scale of how a 173'-216' tall church spire would dominate the landscape. It would become the defining visual characteristic of the town. https://www.ponceinlet.org/z/-vf.0.0.0.134.DCBF4AF1E0F0136BA8F225992A28629C15298C857311547388ED08039BD2C1C0 You should build a 200' tall lighthouse in that NV town and give it some competition. Tell them you worship Poseidon. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:14:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Azygos]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan: Looks to be in a residential zone which restricts structures to two stories or 35', whichever is less They can do this two ways. They can apply to change the zone on the property to something more favorable to their design. They can also apply for a conditional use permit, which is what it sounds like they have done. They really should have had the property rezoned first, then apply for a conditional use permit. What the city can't do is rule against it in an arbitrary and capricious manner. There is public comment and there is public clamor. People screaming we don't want it is not a reason to deny it and it will kill them in court if that's what they base a denial on. Last time I checked, the public comment period is exactly the time for people to say they do or don’t want it. It’s a bit of hyperbole to characterize that as screaming. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:16:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FuriousYachtsman: There's an In N Out 1 mile away. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FuriousYachtsman: Originally Posted By Azygos: Originally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: This is my area, it’s a big thing right now. A lot of people are less concerned about the obnoxiously high cult-tower and more concerned about the massive influx on traffic on an already semi-rural narrow road. Funny thing is, the property was originally going to be sold to a group who wanted to build a two story medical building but the townspeople freaked out and mixed it. Bet they’re wishing for that doctors office now.. Put an In N Out Burger there instead. That way everyone will be pissed off about the traffic. There's an In N Out 1 mile away. Great. Put in a medical clinic, a temple, a Starbucks, and an undersized roundabout feeding them all right next to a new Scheels. Then it’ll be modern western suburb. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:23:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Azygos: Last time I checked, the public comment period is exactly the time for people to say they do or don’t want it. It’s a bit of hyperbole to characterize that as screaming. You can't base your decision on public opinion. Comment vs. clamor. I spent six years as a planning commissioner. Your denials/approvals have to be based on your code or you open yourself to litigation for arbitrary and capricious decisions. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:27:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan: You can't base your decision on public opinion. Comment vs. clamor. I spent six years as a planning commissioner. Your denials/approvals have to be based on your code or you open yourself to litigation for arbitrary and capricious decisions. Why then even hold the charade of a public comment period, if the public comments are to be disregarded? If the committee is free to grant code variances at their discretion without public comment, that is prima facie arbitrary and capricious. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:29:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CTM1]
[#24]
Hope the locals who voted no win as that is BS and an eye sore.
meant to draw the eye upwards to heaven. 
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:30:57 AM EDT
[#25]
Time for that community to keep a careful eye on their children:
https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-investigation-child-sex-abuse-9c301f750725c0f06344f948690caf16 |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:31:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Codyboy: Isnt above 200 in need of a beacon? Our ham guy around here , his personal tower is 199 ft . Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Codyboy: Originally Posted By whiskerz: That is almost freakishly tall.. I would ask that is get a flashing red light like a cell phone tower. Isnt above 200 in need of a beacon? Our ham guy around here , his personal tower is 199 ft . Legal FCC licence limit is 200 feet. Airport proximity also may dictate lighting and height. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:32:45 AM EDT
[#27]
If the locals object, the Church should respect that, and find another use for the property. I'm thinking something charitable. Maybe low income housing? For ex-convicts to get back on their feet, perhaps.
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:44:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Aerospace_Money]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MachRider: Time for that community to keep a careful eye on their children: https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-investigation-child-sex-abuse-9c301f750725c0f06344f948690caf16 The mormons probably already have wards over there (their normal worship services). The mormon temple is only for worthy mormons with a 'temple recommend' card. In there they do their saving ordinances - baptisms for the dead, the endowment (masonic origin), and celestial marriage. A mormon cannot go to the highest level of heaven and attain godhood without going through the temple ordinances. There is also a 2nd anointing where you are guaranteed salvation and exaltation as a god no matter what. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:46:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9divdoc: If they offered to put a HAM repeater up there I would say that's ok then...a little something for the community. This is brilliant. And maybe a discrete cell antenna |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:47:51 AM EDT
[#30]
In before the kangaroo?
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:48:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Azygos: Why then even hold the charade of a public comment period, if the public comments are to be disregarded? If the committee is free to grant code variances at their discretion without public comment, that is prima facie arbitrary and capricious. Typically the public comment period is required. The public needs to bring sound arguments based in code as to why something should not be approved. "I don't want it there" just doesn't cut it. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:52:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Azygos]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan: Typically the public comment period is required. The public needs to bring sound arguments based in code as to why something should not be approved. "I don't want it there" just doesn't cut it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By Azygos: Why then even hold the charade of a public comment period, if the public comments are to be disregarded? If the committee is free to grant code variances at their discretion without public comment, that is prima facie arbitrary and capricious. Typically the public comment period is required. The public needs to bring sound arguments based in code as to why something should not be approved. "I don't want it there" just doesn't cut it. Conversely, the reasoning for approving a code variation should be based in code. “I want it there despite the codes and have the deep pockets to litigate this to submission” just does doesn’t cut it. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:53:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9divdoc: If they offered to put a HAM repeater up there I would say that's ok then...a little something for the community. 
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:54:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MemeWarfare: What is a temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints? * A structure that will most certainly be the most attractive building in the area * A place where people gather to worship our Savior, Jesus Christ They make every area a better place. https://getwallpapers.com/wallpaper/full/e/3/5/1343931-beautiful-lds-temple-wallpaper-2132x1600-for-macbook.jpg That looks like a klansman's hood. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:56:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Azygos: Conversely, the reasoning for approving a code variation should be based in code. “I want it there despite the codes and have the deep pockets to litigate this to submission” just does doesn’t cut it. Agreed. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:56:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lumper: I guess I fail to see the need for such a high object. Genesis 11:4 |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:59:30 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crowTrobotwork: Didn't john densmore of the Doors say he used to go up there for inspiration Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crowTrobotwork: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Cant speak to the Law, but they aren't keeping it Country with this. I do like their gigantic temples in large cities; used to think the one in Oakland when I was a kid looked badass. https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/23/12/10/21799437/4/720x0.webp Didn't john densmore of the Doors say he used to go up there for inspiration Not sure, but its certainly an inspiring place. The Oakland Hills (overlooking SF and the wider Bay Area) are really a spectacular viewspot in general, probably one of the best Urban Views in the US. And then looking out from this magnificent, elevated temple position is really cool. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:02:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Cant speak to the Law, but they aren't keeping it Country with this. I do like their gigantic temples in large cities; used to think the one in Oakland when I was a kid looked badass. https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/23/12/10/21799437/4/720x0.webp Looks like Gondor facing Mordor |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:04:26 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By molonlabebronco: This is nothing new. Literally everytime and everywhere they go to build a temple you have people protesting its construction. Even in idaho and utah where there is a huge Mormon population. Yet it gets built and the area around it excels and property values skyrocket. Will happen time and time again. Mormons are by far and away the best neighbors to have. This doesn’t appear to be a reasonable act by a “best neighbor to have” when the residents of the town oppose the tower of Babylon spire yet the “best neighbor to have” will crush you through the court system to get what they want which is outside the city ordinance. If they cared about being good neighbors or actually are good neighbors then they should simply reduce the height to a value that is in line with existing religious structures in the area. The only thing these “best neighbors” are showing is a determination to get what they want at all cost independent of anyone else or any existing regulation. That’s called being an asshole where I come from. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:05:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Alma 31:13-18 has entered the chat, for those who have a copy of the Book of Mormon.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:12:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: contract]
[#41]
PRIVATE PROPERTY = do what you want.
To say anything else is just non American. Traffic, views, etc. It's ALL an excuse to stop people form building/developing because the boomer GOT MINE, F everyone else. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:20:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By contract: PRIVATE PROPERTY = do what you want. To say anything else is just non American. Traffic, views, etc. It's ALL an excuse to stop people form building/developing because the boomer GOT MINE, F everyone else. It can't be that black and white. There are health reasons to not put a landfill next to a residential development. Hazardous waste manufacturing does not belong next to an elementary school. |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:27:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: wspe1]
[#43]
Why do you say Mormons that is not the religion? Or are you referring to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
Any time a Temple is built the value of the area where it is built always sky rockets. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:34:42 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wspe1: Why do you say Mormons that is not the religion? Or are you referring to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? They have always referred to themselves and been known as mormons. This rebranding effort is rather recent. See the "I'm a mormon" campaign. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:42:42 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Azygos: Alma 31:13-18 has entered the chat, for those who have a copy of the Book of Mormon. What does this have to do with building a temple? Nothing |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 3:20:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wspe1: Why do you say Mormons that is not the religion? Or are you referring to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Any time a Temple is built the value of the area where it is built always sky rockets. @wspe1 that’s a disingenuous position. Mormons and the LDS church are one and the same. 
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Posted: 5/14/2024 3:33:43 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan: It can't be that black and white. There are health reasons to not put a landfill next to a residential development. Hazardous waste manufacturing does not belong next to an elementary school. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By contract: PRIVATE PROPERTY = do what you want. To say anything else is just non American. Traffic, views, etc. It's ALL an excuse to stop people form building/developing because the boomer GOT MINE, F everyone else. It can't be that black and white. There are health reasons to not put a landfill next to a residential development. Hazardous waste manufacturing does not belong next to an elementary school. Yet those are not aesthetic preferences. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 3:55:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Whiskey1Alpha]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aerospace_Money: There needs to be grand buildings in order to give the illusion of substance to the mormon religion. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 3:57:39 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gtsteve03: Guarantee there would be less pushback if it were mosque minarets. And GD would forget all about private property rights. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 4:00:34 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Whiskey1Alpha: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Whiskey1Alpha: Originally Posted By Aerospace_Money: There needs to be grand buildings in order to give the illusion of substance to the mormon religion. That’s a salty take on Catholicism and the Anglican Church as well. |
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