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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:20:41 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jwr6: Because now, having an AK on the range automatically means it it not a sanctioned BSA event. The adults are not acting on behalf of the BSA. They committed perjury on their request to use the camp, so are in fact trespassing on BSA property. That's what happened already. Would have had to be a Venturing crew (which they weren't) and have appropriately trained adults (which they didn't). |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:28:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Amazing how the same people who don’t want kids taught anything about guns, including safety are the loudest gun control advocates who claim kids are dying from accidental shootings. Every time I see or hear a complaint about gun safety classes I throw that back at them.
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:29:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BullpupFan: That's what happened already. Would have had to be a Venturing crew (which they weren't) and have appropriately trained adults (which they didn't). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BullpupFan: Originally Posted By jwr6: Because now, having an AK on the range automatically means it it not a sanctioned BSA event. The adults are not acting on behalf of the BSA. They committed perjury on their request to use the camp, so are in fact trespassing on BSA property. That's what happened already. Would have had to be a Venturing crew (which they weren't) and have appropriately trained adults (which they didn't). Yes. Also, it’s not “perjury” or trespassing, or any crime at all, if you fill out a camp application and merely show up with the wrong kind of gun. Even if it were, BSA is still getting sued no matter what if a kid gets shot. With a centerfire or a rimfire. None of these rules make any difference if people ignore them and do dumb shit. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:29:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GeorgiaBII: I'm an eagle scout and don't even recognize the program anymore. Liberals have fucked it up completely Same. I really want to burn the building down |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:41:46 PM EDT
[#5]
I was pretty sure they were done when they changed their name last week to Scouting America, to be inclusive to trannys, gays, and women. They have lost something like a million scouts in 10 years, they will be done in 10 years from now probably less.
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Posted: 5/10/2024 11:04:18 PM EDT
[#6]
One of my favorite events in Scouting back in the day was the annual deer hunting trip. Camping plus hunting.... those were the days.
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Posted: 5/10/2024 11:53:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA national shooting sports director or National Rifle Association firearms instructor. Guess I'm gonna get fired from my volunteer position. That's OK, told the troop I'm done in December. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 12:09:24 AM EDT
[#8]
I was never in scouts, and even as a kid I dont remember more than 2 kids i knew being in it
But if the old official group has gotten all faggy and lame, whats stopping anyone from starting a new group with a new name that espouses the old values, traditions and shit? |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:41:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VaultDweller: I was never in scouts, and even as a kid I dont remember more than 2 kids i knew being in it But if the old official group has gotten all faggy and lame, whats stopping anyone from starting a new group with a new name that espouses the old values, traditions and shit? There are groups doing that. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:51:01 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By birdbarian: Guess I'm gonna get fired from my volunteer position. That's OK, told the troop I'm done in December. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By birdbarian: Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA national shooting sports director or National Rifle Association firearms instructor. Guess I'm gonna get fired from my volunteer position. That's OK, told the troop I'm done in December. You're currently allowed to carry? |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:00:16 AM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By BullpupFan: Killed off Venturer shooting - no more semi-auto rifles, no more centerfire, no more pistols. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss08/#a They're replacing the current program, not eliminating pistols. The Scouting Pistol Safety and Marksmanship program is retired effective September 1, 2024. Effective September 1, 2024, Scouts BSA older Scouts** pistol program is the NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation. Q: Our Venturing crew is interested in participating in a pistol program. Is it still possible for us to do so? A: Yes, Venturing crews participate in the NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation at an accredited camp program (day camp, short-term camp, long-term camp) or a council organized one day event. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:06:54 AM EDT
[#12]
I'm literally taking scout rifle instructor this weekend.
The instructor mentioned he saw this but hadn't read it all. I'm the furthest thing from an expert on the subject but it doesn't strike that much is changing. In my experience all shooting was being done at the council level already. The reason I wanted to take the training was so that I could open the range when my troop was at camp. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:25:14 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whollyshite: Trail Life is what you're looking for... https://www.traillifeusa.com/ I grew up in a church where they had a similar BSA structure (Royal Rangers). While it looks like it's more of just a religious boy's club these days, we had some great men in our church who took us hiking, camping, learned tracking and plant identification, learned a crap ton of bushcraft skills, working with knives and axes. Not a lot of shooting, but we did archery and occasionally .22LR shooting. Sure, there were Bible lessons, but they were all tied into outdoor ethics, being a good steward, and the lessons of how to be a good, young man. Once these programs grow nationally, they lose much of what makes them so special at the small group level. I tried to get my son in Boy Scouts (actually it was Cub Scouts). It was hosted at a local Morman church. I volunteered as I thought they'd have some outdoors stuff...nope, arts and crafts, almost all women running things (who also brought their little girls). My son lost interest after just a few get-togethers. Hell, that was in the early 2000's. I've always been a big advocate of kids learning about life in the outdoors. Boys should have those opportunities where it's just boys with respectable (vetted?) men who have some Godly foundation to help shape these young boys into responsible young men. They don't have to be religiously driven, just the key concepts around the Golden Rule and how to be a good citizen. The tools used, the outdoors environment, hiking, fire-making, camping, shooting, "bushcraft" skills, fire-side cooking, first aid, even survival basics, are so extremely important to keep hands busy, minds working, and learning responsibility...and if not paying attention, learn about consequences. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:44:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stryfe: They're replacing the current program, not eliminating pistols. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stryfe: Originally Posted By BullpupFan: Killed off Venturer shooting - no more semi-auto rifles, no more centerfire, no more pistols. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss08/#a They're replacing the current program, not eliminating pistols. The Scouting Pistol Safety and Marksmanship program is retired effective September 1, 2024. Effective September 1, 2024, Scouts BSA older Scouts** pistol program is the NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation. Q: Our Venturing crew is interested in participating in a pistol program. Is it still possible for us to do so? A: Yes, Venturing crews participate in the NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation at an accredited camp program (day camp, short-term camp, long-term camp) or a council organized one day event. The ONLY pistol shooting becoming allowed is NRA First Steps - so after you do all the class work and shoot your 20 or so allotted rounds of .22LR you’re done. Want to shoot tomorrow? Do it all again - class work and limited shooting is it. My crew did regular 2 hr shoots of .22LR up to 50AE with 4 pistol instructors, 2 RSOs and some kids shooting the NRA MQP. First Steps is just that- an introduction to pistols. It’s NOT a “pistol program” any more than the NASCAR Experience (where you take a few laps with a pro driver in the car) is a “race driving program”! |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:47:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BullpupFan: The ONLY pistol shooting becoming allowed is NRA First Steps - so after you do all the class work and shoot your 20 or so allotted rounds of .22LR you’re done. Want to shoot tomorrow? Do it all again - class work and limited shooting is it. My crew did regular 2 hr shoots of .22LR up to 50AE with 4 pistol instructors, 2 RSOs and some kids shooting the NRA MQP. First Steps is just that- an introduction to pistols. It’s NOT a “pistol program” any more than the NASCAR Experience (where you take a few laps with a pro driver in the car) is a “race driving program”! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BullpupFan: Originally Posted By Stryfe: Originally Posted By BullpupFan: Killed off Venturer shooting - no more semi-auto rifles, no more centerfire, no more pistols. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss08/#a They're replacing the current program, not eliminating pistols. The Scouting Pistol Safety and Marksmanship program is retired effective September 1, 2024. Effective September 1, 2024, Scouts BSA older Scouts** pistol program is the NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation. Q: Our Venturing crew is interested in participating in a pistol program. Is it still possible for us to do so? A: Yes, Venturing crews participate in the NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation at an accredited camp program (day camp, short-term camp, long-term camp) or a council organized one day event. The ONLY pistol shooting becoming allowed is NRA First Steps - so after you do all the class work and shoot your 20 or so allotted rounds of .22LR you’re done. Want to shoot tomorrow? Do it all again - class work and limited shooting is it. My crew did regular 2 hr shoots of .22LR up to 50AE with 4 pistol instructors, 2 RSOs and some kids shooting the NRA MQP. First Steps is just that- an introduction to pistols. It’s NOT a “pistol program” any more than the NASCAR Experience (where you take a few laps with a pro driver in the car) is a “race driving program”! I see. Are they only allowed to do the program once? |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:49:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stryfe: I'm literally taking scout rifle instructor this weekend. The instructor mentioned he saw this but hadn't read it all. I'm the furthest thing from an expert on the subject but it doesn't strike that much is changing. In my experience all shooting was being done at the council level already. The reason I wanted to take the training was so that I could open the range when my troop was at camp. You’re correct that the main impact on Scouts BSA Troos is the restriction to camps and the undefined/nebulously-defined “commercial ranges”. Once the youth reached age 14 generally, they could join a Venture Crew where today they can shoot anything that’s not full auto. Come 9/1/24 they’re effectively limited to what Troops can do today. Depending on the age of your kids and the area, you may not even know the rich range of shooting options available to older youth via Venturing. Previously available I should say 😢 |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:52:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BullpupFan]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stryfe: I see. Are they only allowed to do the program once? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stryfe: Originally Posted By BullpupFan: Originally Posted By Stryfe: Originally Posted By BullpupFan: Killed off Venturer shooting - no more semi-auto rifles, no more centerfire, no more pistols. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss08/#a They're replacing the current program, not eliminating pistols. The Scouting Pistol Safety and Marksmanship program is retired effective September 1, 2024. Effective September 1, 2024, Scouts BSA older Scouts** pistol program is the NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation. Q: Our Venturing crew is interested in participating in a pistol program. Is it still possible for us to do so? A: Yes, Venturing crews participate in the NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation at an accredited camp program (day camp, short-term camp, long-term camp) or a council organized one day event. The ONLY pistol shooting becoming allowed is NRA First Steps - so after you do all the class work and shoot your 20 or so allotted rounds of .22LR you’re done. Want to shoot tomorrow? Do it all again - class work and limited shooting is it. My crew did regular 2 hr shoots of .22LR up to 50AE with 4 pistol instructors, 2 RSOs and some kids shooting the NRA MQP. First Steps is just that- an introduction to pistols. It’s NOT a “pistol program” any more than the NASCAR Experience (where you take a few laps with a pro driver in the car) is a “race driving program”! I see. Are they only allowed to do the program once? No restrictions I know of but since the program is 90% classroom it’s not enough shooting to make repeating it very appealing. ETA pistol is now ONLY a council event so units like mine can’t even do NRA First Steps on our own - despite being fully staffed to do so. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:54:14 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:36:41 AM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By RRA_223: Originally Posted By Kanati: The best thing scouting could have ever done was make having married parents a requirement. Karen ruins everything. Dad's still don't show up. Too busy drinking and playing fantasy football. We can't get enough of the current crop of parents to sign up as leaders, which is why I'm done in December. There were a group of boys who were my son's friends that I wanted to see make Eagle Scout, and the last one did it in April. There are more good boys on that path, but 16+ years is enough for me. I'm out. At the troop level, nothing has changed for us. We don't have a girl troop, and nobody wants to see one formed. At the District level things are still pretty sane, but as you get to the council, things are changing. I'm also a unit leader with American Heritage Girls, AHG. The troop is growing like crazy, and there are no shortage of parents who volunteer. There's talk of starting a Trail Life Troop. I told the people thinking about organizing it that I'd help for a year, which probably means 2 or 3 if I'm having fun. My daughter earned her Stars and Stripes award from AHG, and my son is an Eagle Scout. I'm proud of both of them, and all the boys I've seen make it to Eagle. My daughter was the first to earn the Stars and Stripes award in her troop, and two of her friends are right behind her. I'm mentoring one of them. It sucks that the left destroys everything. The only things they create are chaos and hatred. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:39:59 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stryfe: You're currently allowed to carry? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stryfe: Originally Posted By birdbarian: Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA national shooting sports director or National Rifle Association firearms instructor. Guess I'm gonna get fired from my volunteer position. That's OK, told the troop I'm done in December. You're currently allowed to carry? No, but that doesn't stop me. We are responsible for the boys when they're with us. There are a few of us who carry. Concealed means concealed. I no longer have a kid in the program, so they can "fire" me from my volunteer position. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:36:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bullseye100: Same here. When my credentials expire, I will not go through the process to renew them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bullseye100: Originally Posted By OKnativeson: I'm a shooting instructor Pistol and Rifle and RSO for our District. my son got his Eagle right before it went to hell. Same here. When my credentials expire, I will not go through the process to renew them. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:39:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By birdbarian: We can't get enough of the current crop of parents to sign up as leaders, which is why I'm done in December. There were a group of boys who were my son's friends that I wanted to see make Eagle Scout, and the last one did it in April. There are more good boys on that path, but 16+ years is enough for me. I'm out. At the troop level, nothing has changed for us. We don't have a girl troop, and nobody wants to see one formed. At the District level things are still pretty sane, but as you get to the council, things are changing. I'm also a unit leader with American Heritage Girls, AHG. The troop is growing like crazy, and there are no shortage of parents who volunteer. There's talk of starting a Trail Life Troop. I told the people thinking about organizing it that I'd help for a year, which probably means 2 or 3 if I'm having fun. Yeah, parents want a product which is drop-and-go, and BSA is built on volunteers so you're spot-on about the continuing implosion of BSA. Seems like AHG and Trail Life are still solidly single-sex, and my Crew is co-ed so they'd need a new "home" which was co-ed and I've not found such an option for them yet, nor one which would allow the range of shooting Venturing did 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 5:40:35 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BullpupFan: No restrictions I know of but since the program is 90% classroom it’s not enough shooting to make repeating it very appealing. ETA pistol is now ONLY a council event so units like mine can’t even do NRA First Steps on our own - despite being fully staffed to do so. Where I was going was you can get the class work real quick when everyone's done it before... I asked a bunch of questions in class yesterday. These are the training programs. Can you only do training programs or can you hold events? I ask because the instructor thought the move to the NRA course was a good idea. He said that BSA initially had First Steps as their pistol training. But at the time it was not being published by NRA. So the BSA developed their own program based on first steps, and fucked it up. NRA has put first steps back into publication. I think the training program issue is moot. The restrictions to scout or commercial ranges could be an issue for some. I don't see why you couldn't have an open shoot. You're just restricted on ranges...if it's a Scouting event. Scouting doesn't have any say in what you do at a private event. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 5:43:42 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By birdbarian: No, but that doesn't stop me. We are responsible for the boys when they're with us. There are a few of us who carry. Concealed means concealed. I no longer have a kid in the program, so they can "fire" me from my volunteer position. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By birdbarian: Originally Posted By Stryfe: Originally Posted By birdbarian: Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA national shooting sports director or National Rifle Association firearms instructor. Guess I'm gonna get fired from my volunteer position. That's OK, told the troop I'm done in December. You're currently allowed to carry? No, but that doesn't stop me. We are responsible for the boys when they're with us. There are a few of us who carry. Concealed means concealed. I no longer have a kid in the program, so they can "fire" me from my volunteer position. That's my point. You aren't quitting because any of the new changes. You just posted above you're quitting because of parents who think BSA is Baby Sitters of America. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 5:58:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sailboat: You should try and get sailing instructor certified for scouts. I was a US sailing certified coach and instructor and have coached and taught world champions. The scouting rules were such pain in the ass that we didn't bother. The organization certainly doesn't make it easy. I got my Archery Instructor done 100% through USA Archery. I was talking to a guy who missed the BSA run class and had to wait for the next to pop up. I had at least 2 classes available to me through USA Archery. I tried going the same route with NRA, but there are no classes nearby so I had to wait 6 months to catch probably the only BSA run class held this year. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:00:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FMJshooter]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kanati: The best thing scouting could have ever done was make having married parents a requirement. Karen ruins everything. Yea my local troop is all single moms trying to supplement the lack of father in their kids life. This in theory should be great for the Scouts and the kids but the moms don't want to do anything that requires them to put down their phone or god forbid requires little johnny to actually go outside. Lawyers and Karens kills everything. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:30:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: UTCenturion]
[#27]
How has this disgusting cancel culture infected rhe roght now too. Almost everyone posting has no idea what you are talking about. What hurt scouts is the california liberals bleeding it dry over the gay rights issues. And the scouts never gave in, lost huge sums if money when california made it legal to bring sex assault claims against people who were DEAD and cant defend themselves. and now they are rebuilding and the right is gonna hit them with cancel culture too. ffs
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MD, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:50:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Years ago I took my older son to a BSA meeting one time, it was such a cluster we never went back. Now my younger son is in a Trail Life troop, he is selling Hybridlight flashlights for their fundraiser to win a Henry 22.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:58:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heavy260: White suburban soccer moms ruin everything Sadly, they are the only ones left actually volunteering and leading scouting activity anymore. The dudes have pretty much disappeared. Want to know what killed Boy Scouts of America? It's the fact that the dad's stopped showing up, is why. (yes, every dad posting here goes - but look around; who's there with the kids at the rest of the troop? Where's dad?) |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:01:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheWhiteHorse]
[#30]
Easier to molest kids if they don’t know how to shoot…
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:10:52 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stryfe: Where I was going was you can get the class work real quick when everyone's done it before... I asked a bunch of questions in class yesterday. These are the training programs. Can you only do training programs or can you hold events? I ask because the instructor thought the move to the NRA course was a good idea. He said that BSA initially had First Steps as their pistol training. But at the time it was not being published by NRA. So the BSA developed their own program based on first steps, and fucked it up. NRA has put first steps back into publication. I think the training program issue is moot. The restrictions to scout or commercial ranges could be an issue for some. I don't see why you couldn't have an open shoot. You're just restricted on ranges...if it's a Scouting event. Scouting doesn't have any say in what you do at a private event. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stryfe: Originally Posted By BullpupFan: No restrictions I know of but since the program is 90% classroom it’s not enough shooting to make repeating it very appealing. ETA pistol is now ONLY a council event so units like mine can’t even do NRA First Steps on our own - despite being fully staffed to do so. Where I was going was you can get the class work real quick when everyone's done it before... I asked a bunch of questions in class yesterday. These are the training programs. Can you only do training programs or can you hold events? I ask because the instructor thought the move to the NRA course was a good idea. He said that BSA initially had First Steps as their pistol training. But at the time it was not being published by NRA. So the BSA developed their own program based on first steps, and fucked it up. NRA has put first steps back into publication. I think the training program issue is moot. The restrictions to scout or commercial ranges could be an issue for some. I don't see why you couldn't have an open shoot. You're just restricted on ranges...if it's a Scouting event. Scouting doesn't have any say in what you do at a private event. NRA requires MINIMUM time spent on those lessons - 2hr IIRC, you can spend more - e.g. 1hr minimum on the lesson which takes place on the range and includes live firing, but you've got to do the 90min before that and 30min afterwards or you're not actually offering the official NRA course and now you're in trouble. We'll have to see the official shooting sports manual, but the ONLY place post-9/1/24 pistol shooting can take place per the website now is at council sponsored 1-day events and the only pistol program is NRA First Steps Pistol Orientation, so I doubt there will be any sort of open shoot for pistol post 9/1. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:22:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: One of my Eagle Scouts got his Eagle badge tattooed over his heart. I'm wondering if he's regretting that now. I hope he’s not. I didn’t achieve Eagle Scout, but it’s still an accomplishment and something to be proud of, even in today’s world. Fuck all the commie pieces of shit. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:26:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dbrowne1: Holy rationalization. The program formerly known as Boy Scouts had been so nerfed and feminized, in so many ways, it’s not even recognizable anymore. It’s the transitioned tranny of male programs. This firearms stuff is just one of many symptoms. It all started when scouting moved away from biblical tenets to secular based leadership. Tolerating the gayness was the downfall. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:29:09 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BullpupFan: Stupidest part is how much of a draw shooting sports was - BB guns then .22LR bolt actions then centerfire rifles and pistols. Lot of kids who stayed in Scouting due to moving up the shooting ranks... I was brought up in a "guns bad and scary" family. Scouts showed me that that was a lie, and target shooting was fun |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 2:19:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WrightP: Same. I really want to burn the building down Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WrightP: Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII: I'm an eagle scout and don't even recognize the program anymore. Liberals have fucked it up completely Same. I really want to burn the building down That's what they want. Total destruction of the Boy Scouts. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 2:24:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ROCK6: I grew up in a church where they had a similar BSA structure (Royal Rangers). While it looks like it's more of just a religious boy's club these days, we had some great men in our church who took us hiking, camping, learned tracking and plant identification, learned a crap ton of bushcraft skills, working with knives and axes. Not a lot of shooting, but we did archery and occasionally .22LR shooting. Sure, there were Bible lessons, but they were all tied into outdoor ethics, being a good steward, and the lessons of how to be a good, young man. Once these programs grow nationally, they lose much of what makes them so special at the small group level. I tried to get my son in Boy Scouts (actually it was Cub Scouts). It was hosted at a local Morman church. I volunteered as I thought they'd have some outdoors stuff...nope, arts and crafts, almost all women running things (who also brought their little girls). My son lost interest after just a few get-togethers. Hell, that was in the early 2000's. I've always been a big advocate of kids learning about life in the outdoors. Boys should have those opportunities where it's just boys with respectable (vetted?) men who have some Godly foundation to help shape these young boys into responsible young men. They don't have to be religiously driven, just the key concepts around the Golden Rule and how to be a good citizen. The tools used, the outdoors environment, hiking, fire-making, camping, shooting, "bushcraft" skills, fire-side cooking, first aid, even survival basics, are so extremely important to keep hands busy, minds working, and learning responsibility...and if not paying attention, learn about consequences. After Boy Scouts, I joined the Royal Rangers at our church. It was 100% Boy Scout stuff but with bible/Christ influences. We did hikes, camping, woodcraft, survival stuff, etc. I look back at that time with fondness. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 2:41:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dbrowne1]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: It all started when scouting moved away from biblical tenets to secular based leadership. Tolerating the gayness was the downfall. It started when they began trying to nerf the program to appeal to broader demographics. There was a change in the 1980s where they removed the camping and swimming merit badges as a requirement to advance, because they were supposedly too much of an obstacle to certain urban demographics. That thankfully got reversed, but then the steeper, faster decline starting in the 2000s when Big BSA started taking and becoming dependent on big corporate donors. Who then pushed BSA for the kinds of policies and statements that we have seen since, and pushed them to hire consultants and female HR lawyers to define their culture. Religion or lack thereof wasn’t the problem. It was choosing money and MBAs over running a program to train boys into men. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 2:52:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BullpupFan: No restrictions I know of but since the program is 90% classroom it’s not enough shooting to make repeating it very appealing. ETA pistol is now ONLY a council event so units like mine can’t even do NRA First Steps on our own - despite being fully staffed to do so. When my son was still involved in Cub Scouts, I offered to set up an activity and even a campout at my gun club, which has a fishing pond, camping area, etc. Let them shoot suppressed .22s and air guns. I just sort of assumed at the time that the rules were not as restrictive and ridiculous as they turned out to be. In a program originally intended to turn soft urbanite boys into capable men, you’d think something like this would be not only allowed, but welcomed. Nope. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:18:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sailboat: You should try and get sailing instructor certified for scouts. I was a US sailing certified coach and instructor and have coached and taught world champions. The scouting rules were such pain in the ass that we didn't bother. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sailboat: Originally Posted By Bullseye100: Originally Posted By OKnativeson: I'm a shooting instructor Pistol and Rifle and RSO for our District. my son got his Eagle right before it went to hell. Same here. When my credentials expire, I will not go through the process to renew them. For open water or lakes? I'm pretty sure when I was in, all that was required was someone having read the merit badge book and a megaphone to laugh at us morons as we ran into each other in the camp's ~5 acre lake.  Kharn |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:27:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Hunting is no longer part of the Venturing program. Fucking cucks. I think the organization effectively dies within a decade or two. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:49:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: Fucking cucks. I think the organization effectively dies within a decade or two. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: Hunting is no longer part of the Venturing program. Fucking cucks. I think the organization effectively dies within a decade or two. I was just talking to my daughter - we give it <10yrs
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:51:45 PM EDT
[#42]
Whole troop or crew just needs to show up at an Appleseed or Reveres Riders event at the same time. That's been a thing for years because scouts couldn't shoot 10/22s even under the old program.
Or the NRA certified instructor pays for an instructor insurance policy, the chartering org spends a few bucks to create "Chartering Org Adventure Club LLC" as an umbrella layer and everyone signs waivers. It's not a scout event, it's just a social gathering with the chartering org. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 4:05:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kanati]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Sadly, they are the only ones left actually volunteering and leading scouting activity anymore. The dudes have pretty much disappeared. Want to know what killed Boy Scouts of America? It's the fact that the dad's stopped showing up, is why. (yes, every dad posting here goes - but look around; who's there with the kids at the rest of the troop? Where's dad?) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By heavy260: White suburban soccer moms ruin everything Sadly, they are the only ones left actually volunteering and leading scouting activity anymore. The dudes have pretty much disappeared. Want to know what killed Boy Scouts of America? It's the fact that the dad's stopped showing up, is why. (yes, every dad posting here goes - but look around; who's there with the kids at the rest of the troop? Where's dad?) It started out as a boys and dads thing, with almost universal participation. Then, during and after the wars, it became more socially acceptable to have single parent or father absent households. First one or two boys were solo, then a few, and now only a handful actually come with a participating father. Then, the few fathers left have to spread their time and energy across larger and larger crowds of undisciplined shithead kids being raised by Karen, or worse her parents, often at the detriment of his own children. I remember even back in the 90's, my father and some of the other more involved fathers pushing us into a venture patrol so we could get away and actually do fun and cool things without being weighed down by a van load of wet blankets and their litigious mother hens who were afraid little Timmy might have a real life experience. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 4:05:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HitsCount: Whole troop or crew just needs to show up at an Appleseed or Reveres Riders event at the same time. That's been a thing for years because scouts couldn't shoot 10/22s even under the old program. Or the NRA certified instructor pays for an instructor insurance policy, the chartering org spends a few bucks to create "Chartering Org Adventure Club LLC" as an umbrella layer and everyone signs waivers. It's not a scout event, it's just a social gathering with the chartering org. My training years ago claimed that BSA had been sued and lost where units used existing communications avenues and "just happened" to show up at a non-BSA approved event. Parents supposedly sued and won because they "thought" it was a legit Scouting event since everyone from the unit was going.... Could all be B.S. but we were told in no uncertain terms that wasn't kosher... |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 4:09:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BullpupFan: My training years ago claimed that BSA had been sued and lost where units used existing communications avenues and "just happened" to show up at a non-BSA approved event. Parents supposedly sued and won because they "thought" it was a legit Scouting event since everyone from the unit was going.... Could all be B.S. but we were told in no uncertain terms that wasn't kosher... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BullpupFan: Originally Posted By HitsCount: Whole troop or crew just needs to show up at an Appleseed or Reveres Riders event at the same time. That's been a thing for years because scouts couldn't shoot 10/22s even under the old program. Or the NRA certified instructor pays for an instructor insurance policy, the chartering org spends a few bucks to create "Chartering Org Adventure Club LLC" as an umbrella layer and everyone signs waivers. It's not a scout event, it's just a social gathering with the chartering org. My training years ago claimed that BSA had been sued and lost where units used existing communications avenues and "just happened" to show up at a non-BSA approved event. Parents supposedly sued and won because they "thought" it was a legit Scouting event since everyone from the unit was going.... Could all be B.S. but we were told in no uncertain terms that wasn't kosher... "The first thing we do, lets kill all the lawyers." |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 4:26:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HitsCount]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BullpupFan: My training years ago claimed that BSA had been sued and lost where units used existing communications avenues and "just happened" to show up at a non-BSA approved event. Parents supposedly sued and won because they "thought" it was a legit Scouting event since everyone from the unit was going.... Could all be B.S. but we were told in no uncertain terms that wasn't kosher... Fair. I wouldn't advertise a social event like that with scoutbook. And everyone should be very clear that it is not a BSA event, it is not sanctioned in any way by scouts, etc. If it makes everyone feel better to add a page stating that to the stack of waivers go for it. But as an AS and RR instructor I have taught a lot of scout groups over the years. And as a scout leader I'd have no concerns about doing it. |
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