Quoted: Bi-cyclists wear those faggy shorts and hog up whole lanes of traffic meant for VEHICLES. Bastards...I cant stand them.  They are ALL  like that.

Damn!  You beat me to it!  

Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone still believe in freedom of speech? Posting derogatory comments of a racial, religious, or sexual nature. That's right out of the COC. Does it limit "freedom of speech"? Of course it does. But the owners (and most of us) believe that some speech is vile enough that they don't want it on this site.   Freedom of speech is not the issue.

Interesting that you should quote those parts of the COC Old_Painless.  

After all, you've told people of certain religions whether or not they can be "Christians".  It's certainly offensive for a person to be told that he can't believe in Christ because he doesn't belong to you're list of approved religions.  Yet the Mods haven't chastized you for it.

Painless, I agree that some of the police bashing gets carried away here.  Personally, I've known some sterling examples of police doing their duty.  Even one who gave me a speeding ticket was justified.  I've known others who seemed to be looking for an excuse to show off their perceived authority.  For heaven's sakes, I work with one who doesn't give a sh-- about the 2nd Amendment as long as she gets her normal capacity magazines as a police officer.  The rest of us can go to hell as far as she's concerned.  Yet she comes to me to find out what features she can legally get for her own private AR15.

My point is that cop bashing is a natural reaction to perceived abuses of authority.

If you get to give me a hard time, insisting that I'm not Christian, then I should be able to cop bash within reason.

Quoted: Then, Old_Painless, you think that the militarization of LEOs must be a good thing for the Republic? When the New Age Pharisees and the Sadducees agree that you are the enemy of the Brave New American State, please don't cry out 'Lord, Lord' when the Temple Guards come out to seize you! For those who could have listened and would have responded to your cries have long since vanished....and at the very hands of those same New Centurions! I hope that you recognize the allusions. Or the illusions. Whichever. Eric The(RememberingTheVeryAncientPastAsIfItWereYesterday)Hun

I understand the allusions, but I'm curious who you see as the new Pharisees and Sadducees and what their goal is?

Why would they come for OP in the first place?

IBTL?





Seriously, as far as upgrading the CoC to outlaw cop-bashing, I think that "there are already sufficient remedies at law" here to deal with this type of thing.

I think a lot of the problem that causes heat/friction between LEO "bashers" and LEO "apologists" has something to do with the logical/reasoning fallacy of similarity.

Examples of "corrupt cops" usually meet with much venom from honest LEOs, who probably don't see it all that often (while it may happen, I doubt honest LEOs hang out much with ones they know to be dishonest).  Further, it can (reasonably) be taken as an attempt to impugn their good names and reputations.

Examples of citizens (yes, even bad guys) getting a little overdose of force (even if legal) usually envenomates some of us honest citizens because we think (not without merit, unfortunately) that we could be the next recipient of said tactics.

Whomever casts the first stone usually does so with a "blanket comment."  Then, the aggrieved party responds.  The fight is on.

CIV: "All LEOs do such and such." LEO: "No we don't."

or

LEO: "All civvies should be tazed." (Kidding, John.) CIV: "No we shouldn't be."

The easier example is when one of us civvies says something like:
"Cops today have no respect for the Constitution."
An LEO reads that as "ALL cops (including you, Pig) are corrupt."
They may take it personal, may get mad, maybe both.  I can't blame 'em.

A little bit of understanding from both sides will go a long way:

We citizens need to understand that the LEOs, by and large, aren't the ones perpetuating things such as the "militarization of the police."  Sure, some of 'em push for it for safety reasons, to get their hands on cool weapons, etc (I don't agree w/ it 100%, but can't blame 'em, either).  Sure, most of them don't complain about it when they get advanced tactical training, special weapons, etc (not every LEO gets these, not by a long shot).  Would I turn down a Five-seveN or some advanced training if they were offered to me?  You bet your ass I would....... not.

On the other hand, LEOs need to understand that, by and large, citizens don't (necessarily) hate them.  They are the ones the average citizen sees, though, as the instrument of all we see as wrong with a lot of stuff.  LEO reply posts of "Don't shoot the messenger.... we shoot back" are perfectly in order.  It would reinforce the fact that most of you don't advocate for these things on a daily basis (the FOP, though, is a discussion for another day).

I think it would cut down on a lot by simply asking (not mandating) posters to avoid blanket statements, where possible.

--------------------------------
Highlighting/boldface for those who are keeping score.  Again, these are just my thoughts, by no means Gospel.

If we make a rule like that, can we have the LEs on the board be the ones to
enforce it for some really good fun? <--- ETA lest I be misinterpreted


GM

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Then, Old_Painless, you think that the militarization of LEOs must be a good thing for the Republic? When the New Age Pharisees and the Sadducees agree that you are the enemy of the Brave New American State, please don't cry out 'Lord, Lord' when the Temple Guards come out to seize you! For those who could have listened and would have responded to your cries have long since vanished....and at the very hands of those same New Centurions! I hope that you recognize the allusions. Or the illusions. Whichever. Eric The(RememberingTheVeryAncientPastAsIfItWereYesterday)Hun I understand the allusions, but I'm curious who you see as the new Pharisees and Sadducees and what their goal is? Why would they come for OP in the first place? Priests of Good Order and of The Brave New World. They would come for anyone who insisted that they were NOT Priests of Good Order and that the New World was not Brave, but otherwise. They could come to fetch Old_Painless for his Christianity, or his patriotism, or both, most likely. They are harsh masters, indeed, seeking to reap where they hath not sowed! Eric The(Cryptic,AsAlways)Hun

hmm weird.  I consider myself a patriot and I never feel the need to worry that I will be singled out because of it.  

The Pharisees and Saducess were supporters of the established religion of the time.   Wouldn't that be Christianity now?    

Quoted: i'll ban the very next guy that bashes a bicyclist, fellow road racer, tourist, mountain biker...or anyone that just plain old wants a heroic viking funeral...without bagpipes. and i get to ban those that bash engineers, also! we serve mankind! and 'i' get to determine exactly what 'bashing' is. and i also get to determine what 'is' is. and i also get to wear the cool viking helmet with the horns. and i get to make up other nifty rules as i see fit!

I hate to break it to you, but the horned viking helmet is largely an invention of Hollywood.

I think you need to ban yourself for being insensitive to my heritage!  



... but I agree that the bicycle-bashers and their lycra-spandex homophobia have to be banned ASAP!!  

I have a better idea - let's ban all bashing! That's right, bashing anything should get you banned. Let's make AR15.com a home of constant banning peace, fear harmony, and totalitarianism love.

Quoted: Quoted: <snip> They would come for anyone who insisted that they were NOT Priests of Good Order and that the New World was not Brave, but otherwise. They could come to fetch Old_Painless for his Christianity, or his patriotism, or both, most likely. They are harsh masters, indeed, seeking to reap where they hath not sowed! Eric The(Cryptic,AsAlways)Hun hmm weird.  I consider myself a patriot and I never feel the need to worry that I will be singled out because of it.   The Pharisees and Saducess were supporters of the established religion of the time.   Wouldn't that be Christianity now?

I don't think ETH is really talking about religion here, per se - at least not as most people commonly "know" it to be.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Then, Old_Painless, you think that the militarization of LEOs must be a good thing for the Republic? When the New Age Pharisees and the Sadducees agree that you are the enemy of the Brave New American State, please don't cry out 'Lord, Lord' when the Temple Guards come out to seize you! For those who could have listened and would have responded to your cries have long since vanished....and at the very hands of those same New Centurions! I hope that you recognize the allusions. Or the illusions. Whichever. Eric The(RememberingTheVeryAncientPastAsIfItWereYesterday)Hun I understand the allusions, but I'm curious who you see as the new Pharisees and Sadducees and what their goal is? Why would they come for OP in the first place? Priests of Good Order and of The Brave New World. They would come for anyone who insisted that they were NOT Priests of Good Order and that the New World was not Brave, but otherwise. They could come to fetch Old_Painless for his Christianity, or his patriotism, or both, most likely. They are harsh masters, indeed, seeking to reap where they hath not sowed! Eric The(Cryptic,AsAlways)Hun hmm weird.  I consider myself a patriot and I never feel the need to worry that I will be singled out because of it.   The Pharisees and Saducess were supporters of the established religion of the time.   Wouldn't that be Christianity now?

Interesting question.  To my knowledge (for what it's worth), Pharisees and Sadducees were much more like politicians and lawyers than clerics.  They didn't administer in the temple, but rather administered the laws of the land (according to their own interpretation).  The priests administered in the temple.  The pharisees and sadducees were more like opposing political parties.  They seperated themselves according to their different interpretation of things like resurrection (pharisees believed in it, but sadducees didn't).

Quoted: <snip> I think you need to ban yourself for being insensitive to my heritage!   <snip>

Yes, please elaborate to the preverbal finger in the dyke and wooden clogs.


Sorry, I couldn't resist.

The only problem I have is with policemen calling themselves "officers" and us "civilians" when, in fact, they are not "officers", but just as much a civilian as the rest of us.


If you want your 2nd amendmant rights, just join a LE agency.  Then you're somehow magically trustworthy.

I have no problem with policemen being rendered honor. I would gladly wait in traffic out of respect for the dead policeman.  For the job they do, they deserve alot of respect.


I just get angry when I'm condescendingly called just a "civilian" by another civilian who thinks his job gives him more rights than me.

After the kind comments of EdAvilaSr and a pleasant discussion with my friend Beekeeper, I hereby withdraw my recommendation.

I appreciate the fine site that the Avilas provide and will follow the stated Code of Conduct as written.

Thanks to all for your comments.

Quoted: There's a large minority of people here who hate authority in any uniform. They don't mind the military because they're a thousand miles away but they hate the police with their heart and soul. I believe there's a large sub-set of them who are the dopers as the paranoia and hate for the police is pretty strong among the dopes I knew. Some just hate all forms of authority because they can't comply with any law not in the Constitution - whether it be seat belts or taxes.

Well said. I do not know any of the LE haters on this site.But the ones I have had for neighbors or had to work with were all complete fuckin loser pieces of shit. Most were just too stupid to function in society so they were always having run ins with the law.Not trying to offend anyone here, some of you guys I agree with on a lot of things and I'm sure are good guys.But there are a few here that I would bet Can't even own guns.

I don't want to see a portected class of ANY kind in GD. I think that the rules about personal attacks and trolling cover it, and beyond that we should have free speech.

The Hell you say OP!


Damn cops already have their own forum and now you want special rules for them?

Screw that!


Let them be treated like everyone else.  I am tired of people thinking cops are special or that their job is special.  It's just a damn job.  Get over it, cops are not special in an way shape or form.


Sgtar15

Quoted: Quoted: Hoily shit... I agree with EricTheHun on something. Thanks, Ben. If that doesn't convince Eric of the error of his ways, I don't know what will.

People who bash our troops should be taken out and unceremoniously shot.

How Ed and GB will code that into the board will be something to watch!

I would also like to request some sort of rule that would lock the account of any individual that made fun of or bashes Fat people. Fat bitchespeople need love too.

Quoted: I like the cop-bashers. It reveals their insecurities and explains a lot of their posts.

A moderator (a long time back) once said something to the effect:  "Cop bashers are the same ones that cuss when we enforce the COC and raise cane when we lock a thread.  They then get their accounts locked for a while.

Seems that they don't like following the rules in life or on a forum and hate anyone that makes them obey the rules."

Wise observation.  And true.

Society cannot succeed without "rules" for the population to abide by.  Police officers enforce the rules.  Some people hate them for that.

I respect them for that and thank God for good, honest police officers.

Quoted: Quoted: Well while you're at it, why not just add the rule that you are not allowed to start a thread asking another member a question. Thats considered "calling out" a member and even though nothing is in the COC, its a no no. Or at least to some mods........maybe......well really not sure....when in doubt, just lock it !! no it is called manners. In the GD and rest of the board we don't CALL OUT to attack others members. If you feel you have a NEED for this go see Big ED in the pit. mike

I did none of the things you listed.
I simply asked a legitimate question of another member.
Thats all, no fight picking, no attacking....nothing.

Does bashing include statements supported by facts?

Quoted: [<---what the hell does this smilie stand for?

I think it means, "I own this site and what I say goes."

Quoted: There will not be any generalized bashing.Code or no code. You can "bash" individuals (without personal attacks,threats,name calling,etc.),but there will not be any bashing of entire groups.[<---what the hell does this smilie stand for?

So, with your above statement, am I to presume you shall remove all the anti-firearms people from the net???? After all, they bash the firearms community.

Ed Sr. for 'Net moderator' !!!!!!

Yeah, yeah, just fukking wits ya...

You mean to tell me the fighting and bickering is over?

Damn. It was just getting interesting!

I just came in to pick OP up and dust him off,put a little butterfly bandage over his left eye!

You put up a good fight OP just got bashed a little,good fight!!


Bob

And just for the record it's Edwardo Jr that swings the big axe(Juan VP) and Ed SR, sargent of arms(big arms)!


Bob

Quoted: After the kind comments of EdAvilaSr and a pleasant discussion with my friend Beekeeper, I hereby withdraw my recommendation. I appreciate the fine site that the Avilas provide and will follow the stated Code of Conduct as written. Thanks to all for your comments.

I disagreed with your suggestion, but I think we all should take note of how gracefully you withdrew it.

That's how it's done in a civilized society, gentlemen.

Quoted: Quoted: I think it means, "I own this site and what I say goes." No sir.I am not like that! WE place rules that we think will make the site enjoyable and functional. Too lose,and the brawls do not allow for discussions.Too strict,and nobody has any fun! i ask everyone to "meet me in the middle"

Sorry. Mr, Ed.  I went to bed before you responded.

I just wanted to let you know that I put a "smiley" after my comment because I intended it as a joke, but apparently it was not a very good one.

I would never accuse you or any other staff member of "lording it over" the members.  I can honestly say that I've never seen anyone treated unfairly that I can remember.

Didn't want to leave you with the wrong impression.  I appreciate your takng the time to address my concern.  Thanks.

Quoted: Quoted: After the kind comments of EdAvilaSr and a pleasant discussion with my friend Beekeeper, I hereby withdraw my recommendation. I appreciate the fine site that the Avilas provide and will follow the stated Code of Conduct as written. Thanks to all for your comments. I disagreed with your suggestion, but I think we all should take note of how gracefully you withdrew it. That's how it's done in a civilized society, gentlemen.

+1

(followed by a round of non-sarcastic golf claps)

Even though I didn't necessarily agree with your premise*, you are all class, O_P.



* This said with the express understanding that O_P's suggestion was not to ban *all* bashing, which I think made it even less ridiculous than perhaps some made it out to be.