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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:32:43 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, it seems we've reached a new low around here. Arfcommers now think that they have the perogative to critique how families bury their dead.

It's not your call guys.

Imagine if every person that died literally tied up traffic for hours. How many people die per day in a major city?

It's nice to say that the family got the funeral how they wanted, but it wouldn't quite be a pragmatic approach if everyone did it (which it seems everyone should be able to be, because we do not have different classes of citizens, do we?).

I suggest some college level sociology courses to accurately answer your question. There is insufficient bandwidth available on arfcom to give your question a true and accurate answer.

It is customary to give those who died in the service of their fellow citizens certain respects, courtesies and honors. Being allowed to tie up traffic and have their last ride home unimpeded is one of them.

Say someone cured cancer. Would their life then be "worthy" in your eyes to have a big funeral that ties up traffic?

Don't try to pull the "disrespect" thing, it's not. It's simply acknowledgement that A) people need to get places, regardless of death; B) an officer is (should be) afforded no more rights than another citizens, because they are citizens; C) that if anyone can have a funeral like that, it creates an unrealistic impedement of traffic.

Effectively what you're saying is that officers deserve to be allowed to impede traffic while the rest of us citizens aren't good enough for it!

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:32:50 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, it seems we've reached a new low around here. Arfcommers now think that they have the perogative to critique how families bury their dead.

It's not your call guys.

It's actually NOT how families bury their dead, now, is it?

Do the families pay for all the overtime, pay, insurance costs, wear and tear on equipment, etc., that having half the State's resources tied up in a funeral service must cost taxpayers?

EVEN if the family is writing the check to pay for everything, I would STILL have a problem with a 'military-style' funeral for non-military citizens!

LEOs are NOT military, and their jobs are no more hazardous than others!

If you believe anything beyond that, I'm sorry, but I can't help you!

We have reached a point where IF the fallen LEO is not given a military style funeral worthy of a Caesar, we have somehow disgraced that officer!

If 5 Counties send representatives for one, then 10 Counties must send reps for the next one!

Eric The(KeepItSimpleAndDignified)Hun

You're really beyond pathetic!
FWIW, I have in my file if I were to die in the LOD it's not to be a police funeral, but a private Catholic one. I base this on personal feelings that I'm not gonna share here, but I'll tell you one fucking thing-theres cops out here every day putting it on the line, taking the risks that you'd never take. Ever risk your life for a perfect stranger? I watched as a young officer lay dying in the back of an ambulance in West Dallas after being shot interupting a hold up. At that officers funeral there were agencies from out of state that came to pay their repsects, 'cause ya see a lot of cops have this silly little feeling that if one of us gets cut, we all bleed.
What a sad loser you must be in real life, to cricize the formal send off of one who gave all.

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:33:33 AM EDT

[#3]

Simple answer is this hun. When common men hear the sound of gunfire, riot in the streets, looting, or other dangers that come with modern society, their normal and quite reasonable reaction is to go the other way. Those who's calling is public safety of course find themselves compelled to go towards that danger and walk those dark alleys. Going the other way is never an option. That in my opinion is indeed a great difference. I have been there, I have done that, i have got the scars, stitch marks and felt the wind breaking as the bullet flew past my ear. Much like those brave soldiers who have been where they have been where danger was on all sides, I say you can't know what you have not experienced. Most citizens have no idea what dangers they have missed noticing simply because someone dressed in blue noticed it first and made it that way. To that I say the last patrol deserves special honors. I don't care what it costs you, I don't care what it costs me. I am happy my tax dollars went to good use. I would rather it was a small gathering for a Pensioner with maybe lone piper, but I will not dishonor the fallen. I have lost far to many close friends who died trying to improve the lot of others.

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:34:43 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
remember that police dog that was buried with bagpipes playing and and honor guard and all that?

did his family choose that type of funeral?

i hope i get to die a heroic death. i really want a para-military style viking funeral...with lots of beer...and i want a helmet with horns...and a 21-sword salute....and i want the boat shoved down the cuyahoga river where it can burn naturally.

but...i don't want bagpipes. i hate bagpipes. maybe you guys can chip in and get ted to play "cat scratch fever" for me?

I will clear it with the coast gaurd, but I'd gladly cast you off my beach in a burning wooden row boat headed to Canada.

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:35:33 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
I really think it just isn't up to us.

Yes, indeed, there is a Police Union that would fall over quite dead IF anyone chose anything other than a funeral fit for a Viking warrior!

However, I want to know exactly what characteristics or qualities would make it military?

Everyone here seemed to understand what was meant by that phrase before, but let's look!

If you are talking about a long procession, many funerals have that.

Not very many funerals have quite that many 'guests', at least from the ones that I've seen.

If you are talking a gun salute, well police officers (at least in this country) use guns in the line of duty.

Well, duh! Then we should allow 21 gun salutes for gun shop owners, FFLs, gunsmiths, professional hunting guides, private investigators, and a whole host of others!

If you are talking about the flag, well I feel that police officers oath is just as strong (or weak) as anyone who might join the military.

The flag is NOT an issue, since I think any private citizen should have the right to have a flag placed on his or her casket!

But I took an Oath to Defend the Constitution etc., when I became a member of the Bar in Texas and Louisiana. Does that mandate a flag for me, as well?

I'm not sure what you are taking offense to.

Then the phrase 'military-style' funeral shouldn't bother you a lick. Don't worry about it!

I think it is just a way of paying respect to someone who serves the community (no matter how much or how little they actually did).

In a Republic everyone serves the country, especially those poor beleaguered taxpayers who are paying for all the venialities of others!

I don't see it as separating us and them in this respect.

Yeah, right.

However, there is a certain amount of difference between leo and civvies. They theortically have duties above what the normal civilian does and in that they need to have certain extra rights (can speed when necessary, etc. )

Hell, Son, I can speed in an Emergency situation just like anyone else can!

'Certain extra rights' is precisely WHAT SHOULD NOT EXIST!

Of course I don't think they have any more 2nd amendment rights than the rest of us, but I know that in general, they do a more dangerous job than me and usually don't get much respect for it.

Well, they think they have more rights than the rest of us, and that is an idea that troubles me greatly!

just my opinion.

Mine, too.

Eric The(CitizenIsTheHighestTitleInARepublic)Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:37:31 AM EDT

[#6]

When common men hear the sound of gunfire, riot in the streets, looting, or other dangers that come with modern society, their normal and quite reasonable reaction is to go the other way.

the koreans in l.a. dared tread where no cops went.

and hey! i fully expect you to come to my viking funeral...AND bring beer! and if anyone tries to plas bagpipes...arrest them!

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:37:53 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, it seems we've reached a new low around here. Arfcommers now think that they have the perogative to critique how families bury their dead.

It's not your call guys.

Imagine if every person that died literally tied up traffic for hours. How many people die per day in a major city?

It's nice to say that the family got the funeral how they wanted, but it wouldn't quite be a pragmatic approach if everyone did it (which it seems everyone should be able to be, because we do not have different classes of citizens, do we?).

I suggest some college level sociology courses to accurately answer your question. There is insufficient bandwidth available on arfcom to give your question a true and accurate answer.

It is customary to give those who died in the service of their fellow citizens certain respects, courtesies and honors. Being allowed to tie up traffic and have their last ride home unimpeded is one of them.

Say someone cured cancer. Would their life then be "worthy" in your eyes to have a big funeral that ties up traffic?

Don't try to pull the "disrespect" thing, it's not. It's simply acknowledgement that A) people need to get places, regardless of death; B) an officer is (should be) afforded no more rights than another citizens, because they are citizens; C) that if anyone can have a funeral like that, it creates an unrealistic impedement of traffic.

Effectively what you're saying is that officers deserve to be allowed to impede traffic while the rest of us citizens aren't good enough for it!

In the state of Ohio it is illegal to disrupt or cross ANY funeral procession. So if the person had alot of friends family or interested parties attending and the procession was say 400 cars, well, everyone else will wait for those cars to pass. That is the law.

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:39:11 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Simple answer is this hun. When common men hear the sound of gunfire, riot in the streets, looting, or other dangers that come with modern society, their normal and quite reasonable reaction is to go the other way. Those who's calling is public safety of course find themselves compelled to go towards that danger and walk those dark alleys. Going the other way is never an option. That in my opinion is indeed a great difference. I have been there, I have done that, i have got the scars, stitch marks and felt the wind breaking as the bullet flew past my ear. Much like those brave soldiers who have been where they have been where danger was on all sides, I say you can't know what you have not experienced. Most citizens have no idea what dangers they have missed noticing simply because someone dressed in blue noticed it first and made it that way. To that I say the last patrol deserves special honors. I don't care what it costs you, I don't care what it costs me. I am happy my tax dollars went to good use. I would rather it was a small gathering for a Pensioner with maybe lone piper, but I will not dishonor the fallen. I have lost far to many close friends who died trying to improve the lot of others.

Shotar I've experienced the same, and I'm simply aghast that some of these key board commandos would even take the time to find fault with a formal funeral for a fallen officer.
Some of these elitists on this board, that give us no credit for our accomplishments or experiences, would even deny us a respectful burial.

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:39:46 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Simple answer is this hun. When common men hear the sound of gunfire, riot in the streets, looting, or other dangers that come with modern society, their normal and quite reasonable reaction is to go the other way. Those who's calling is public safety of course find themselves compelled to go towards that danger and walk those dark alleys. Going the other way is never an option. That in my opinion is indeed a great difference. I have been there, I have done that, i have got the scars, stitch marks and felt the wind breaking as the bullet flew past my ear. Much like those brave soldiers who have been where they have been where danger was on all sides, I say you can't know what you have not experienced. Most citizens have no idea what dangers they have missed noticing simply because someone dressed in blue noticed it first and made it that way. To that I say the last patrol deserves special honors. I don't care what it costs you, I don't care what it costs me. I am happy my tax dollars went to good use. I would rather it was a small gathering for a Pensioner with maybe lone piper, but I will not dishonor the fallen. I have lost far to many close friends who died trying to improve the lot of others.

Oh would that all that were true, Shotar, but it's not!

Sorry, but there are myths about the Old South that I buy into, and there are apparently myths about the LEO Profession that you buy into.

Once again, there is ample evidence that law enforcement is NOT the most hazardous duty in this country, yet we are told over and over that it is.

By folks who know better.

Eric The(FatteningDepartmentBudgetsIsNotAnExcuse)Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:39:55 AM EDT

[#10]

I will clear it with the coast gaurd, but I'd gladly cast you off my beach in a burning wooden row boat headed to Canada.

lmao!!!

dude...can i borrow your twin-350 powerboat?

i'll get to valhalla faster!

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:41:25 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
When common men hear the sound of gunfire, riot in the streets, looting, or other dangers that come with modern society, their normal and quite reasonable reaction is to go the other way.

the koreans in l.a. dared tread where no cops went.

and hey! i fully expect you to come to my viking funeral...AND bring beer! and if anyone tries to plas bagpipes...arrest them!

I'm talking about Americans, not Californians. I think the LA situation was discraceful.

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:44:58 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
When common men hear the sound of gunfire, riot in the streets, looting, or other dangers that come with modern society, their normal and quite reasonable reaction is to go the other way.

the koreans in l.a. dared tread where no cops went.

and hey! i fully expect you to come to my viking funeral...AND bring beer! and if anyone tries to plas bagpipes...arrest them!

I'm talking about Americans, not Californians. I think the LA situation was discraceful.

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:47:54 AM EDT

[#13]

Post from ryann -

Shotar I've experienced the same, and I'm simply aghast that some of these key board commandos would even take the time to find fault with a formal funeral for a fallen officer.
Some of these elitists on this board, that give us no credit for our accomplishments or experiences, would even deny us a respectful burial.

Sorry, but you sound as if you just awakened for the day.

Maybe you should wipe the sleep from your eyes and re-read what you have so incredibly misread.

No one here has said anything other than that 'military-style-funerals for LEOs, some of whom did not die in the 'LOD' as y'all put it, but under totally benign circumstances.

Yet their position in the grans scheme of things is that LEOs simply MUST use military-style rites to honor their fallen dead, as if they died on foreign shores, sent by our nation.

When the special becomes the commonplace, then NOTHING is special!

What would LEOs do when the supremely heroic police officer dies under such circumstances that everyone acknowledges to be particularly moving?

You can't just give such atrue hero a 21 gun salute. Every LEO gets that!

Not just a lengthy parade. Every LEO gets that!

Not just 'Taps', not just full-dress uniforms, not just swords and rapiers! Every LEO gets that!

So what is left to really honor those that deserve such honors?

Nada!

There is nothing left....

Eric The(ByTheWay,MyLifeIsWonderful!ThanksForAsking!)Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:49:43 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
When common men hear the sound of gunfire, riot in the streets, looting, or other dangers that come with modern society, their normal and quite reasonable reaction is to go the other way.

the koreans in l.a. dared tread where no cops went.

and hey! i fully expect you to come to my viking funeral...AND bring beer! and if anyone tries to plas bagpipes...arrest them!

I'm talking about Americans, not Californians. I think the LA situation was discraceful.

Wow!

And just think 'California' was a part of shotar's 'Union'!

I find ordinary citizens just fine for purposes of self-defense.

Eric The(RKBAIsAReligiousBeliefForMe)Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:50:49 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Simple answer is this hun. When common men hear the sound of gunfire, riot in the streets, looting, or other dangers that come with modern society, their normal and quite reasonable reaction is to go the other way. Those who's calling is public safety of course find themselves compelled to go towards that danger and walk those dark alleys. Going the other way is never an option. That in my opinion is indeed a great difference. I have been there, I have done that, i have got the scars, stitch marks and felt the wind breaking as the bullet flew past my ear. Much like those brave soldiers who have been where they have been where danger was on all sides, I say you can't know what you have not experienced. Most citizens have no idea what dangers they have missed noticing simply because someone dressed in blue noticed it first and made it that way. To that I say the last patrol deserves special honors. I don't care what it costs you, I don't care what it costs me. I am happy my tax dollars went to good use. I would rather it was a small gathering for a Pensioner with maybe lone piper, but I will not dishonor the fallen. I have lost far to many close friends who died trying to improve the lot of others.

Oh would that all that were true, Shotar, but it's not!

Sorry, but there are myths about the Old South that I buy into, and there are apparently myths about the LEO Profession that you buy into.

Once again, there is ample evidence that law enforcement is NOT the most hazardous duty in this country, yet we are told over and over that it is.

By folks who know better.

Eric The(FatteningDepartmentBudgetsIsNotAnExcuse)Hun

Statistics can show that LE is not necessarily the most hazardous duty in the country, but you also have to qualify the data. Being LEO in a large urban area is more dangerous than being a rural county deputy sheriff that spends most of his time in the jail.
Theres more construction workers and farmers getting hurt everyday for sure, but thers also a hell of a lot MORE construction workers and farmers in this country than there are cops. Also, most often when a construction worker or farmer gets hurt its due to an ACCIDENT, more often than not due to negligence or inattention.
When a cop (or fireman or soldier) gets hurt, he is often running INTO a situation that most people run from.
Statistics also show that LE work, while maybe by the numbers not the most physically dangerous, rates very high up there in stress related dangers-alcoholism, divorce, heart attack, the list goes on.

All you know is what you read in the paper. Theres foot chases, shootings and fights going on everyday in the streets, incidents that never even make the news; but you don't wanna hear any of this, you're Eric the Hun, King of Ar15.Com and you know it all.

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:51:07 AM EDT

[#16]

ok...remember the case western reserve shootings? that way the cops handled that was pretty disgraceful, also...but, i digress.

shotar, if ever you meet a heroic end, i shall make sure the s10 is in your funeral cortage!!

personally, i don't care if the cops get a big para-military sendoff with bagpipes and a 21-gun salute or any of that ceremonial shit. no skin off my nose. they'll rape my paycheck for one thing or another, anyways. i've long ago given up on trying to control what the bastards use it to pay for.

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:55:03 AM EDT

[#17]

damnit, hun! i expect you to be at my heroic viking funeral, too!!!

and...i expect you to bring that blue shit you drink...i hear it's flammable enough to set a proper viking funeral pyre alight.

ah hell! i want EVERYONE to come to my heroic viking funeral! yeah, the traffic jam might be a bitch...but, think of the fun you all could have running out to snode's farm for a 'bulletfest wake' after you shoved my bier out onto lake erie!

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:55:34 AM EDT

[#18]

Yes hun, there are occupations which are statistically more dangerous but in general they do not involve public service. Then again, we have in this end made great strides in safety and training which has led to your statistics. Go back 10, 20, 30 years. Less than a decade ago I attended I believe 7 line of duty funerals in this county in one years time. I personally knew 6 of the 7 and was friends with many who worked with the 7th. Two of them worked for me. Perhaps life in podunk or rural America is a little different that inner city policing and less happens less often. I will keep my council and honor my fallen as I see fit. Yeah, they are better, they did die defending others and that does deserve more. I will gladly give you a formal funeral when you do what Derrik Lanier did. You won't know that name, but he dived between an armed gunman and a bartender in I think it was 1995 and took the bullet. He was dead when he hit the floor his gun half out of its holster. He was 24 years old and an only child. Policemen do that sort of thing all the time in this country. One here, one there so it does not really accumulate until you hear the year end totals. I see no problem with honoring them and the comfort given to Derricks mother as she cried on my arm was that she didn't know he had so many friends and that hundreds had come to honor her son for what he had done. I think the procession was only 200 cars or so, but it was an exceptionally cold day I know many more sent their regrets. Did You?

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:57:43 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
When common men hear the sound of gunfire, riot in the streets, looting, or other dangers that come with modern society, their normal and quite reasonable reaction is to go the other way.

the koreans in l.a. dared tread where no cops went.

and hey! i fully expect you to come to my viking funeral...AND bring beer! and if anyone tries to plas bagpipes...arrest them!

I'm talking about Americans, not Californians. I think the LA situation was discraceful.

You just called every Californian un-American because the LAPD backed down in '92?

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:58:20 AM EDT

[#20]

www.indystar.com/articles/4/172568-5764-009.html

please note the map on the bottom right...my issue was not with taking this fallen officer from the church to the cemitary. Every person is due that respect...my issue was taking this procession into the heart on Indy, out of the way, just to block up traffic. That was my complaint.

What about the parents that needed to pick children up at school? I suppose they shouldn't be upset that their children had to stand outside of a school, because mom and dad are tied up in this traffic mess.

...BTW not to throw another issue into this thread, its glad to see that the LEO community is behind our RKBA...

http://www.indystar.com/articles/9/172874-7499-092.html

"Claiming support from 49 Hoosier police departments - including Indianapolis - a trio of gun-violence experts today urged federal lawmakers to renew and strengthen the federal assault weapons ban that is set to expire on Sept. 13."

Posted: 8/24/2004 9:58:29 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
No one said it should be the same as a military funeral.

Well why on earth not? They are performing the same functions, to hear it from others.

While it is similar there are differences and I'll thank you to keep your arguments to that which is civil and decent. None of which you have displayed here with a complete lack of consderation for the dead, the widow, or those who served with him.

That is simply not true, and you know it.

Tell me where I am been less than kind, or inconsiderate, to anyone?

Eric The(OtherThanRyann,ButHe'sA'SpecialCase')Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:01:04 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
When common men hear the sound of gunfire, riot in the streets, looting, or other dangers that come with modern society, their normal and quite reasonable reaction is to go the other way.

the koreans in l.a. dared tread where no cops went.

and hey! i fully expect you to come to my viking funeral...AND bring beer! and if anyone tries to plas bagpipes...arrest them!

I'm talking about Americans, not Californians. I think the LA situation was discraceful.

You just called every Californian un-American because the LAPD backed down in '92?

No, I just simply don't consider California part of this country. It certainly seems to operate on a different set of rules than everyone else????????

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:01:54 AM EDT

[#23]

Actually, its much more of a spectacle than even military funerals are. I've been to three since 9/11, two killed in theater by enemy fire and one in theater non-battle, and niether had the kind of huge procession or traffic tie-ups that the LOD funerals for police have around here.

There were thousands lined on the route on the roadside to show thier respect for the soldiers however. Not so for the cops (there were some, but not near as many)..... maybe the profession feels obligated to show its own support when it doesn't get it from outside as a feel good measure. I dunno, I am not a phsycologist, but it makes me wonder.

This did get me thinking however, and I never noticed before but when you combine the 2 hour procession with everything else, there is actually more of a major production surrounding a LEO LOD funeral than that of a soldier who dies in battle. A true military funeral is simple, the flag covered casket, the folding of the flag and presentation to next of kin, 21 gun salute, and taps. No 400 vehicle procession from every military unit within a days drive or any of the rest.

Society is odd at times.

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:02:29 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
www.indystar.com/articles/4/172568-5764-009.html

please note the map on the bottom right...my issue was not with taking this fallen officer from the church to the cemitary. Every person is due that respect...my issue was taking this procession into the heart on Indy, out of the way, just to block up traffic. That was my complaint.

What about the parents that needed to pick children up at school? I suppose they shouldn't be upset that their children had to stand outside of a school, because mom and dad are tied up in this traffic mess.

Doesn't it also say the procession was driven past central headquarters and south district? Where he was stationed BTW. Don't the people who he protected have the right to stand the streets and say goodbye?
BTW. I don't buy the crap about no way around. There is an interstate in downtown, I'm sure that wasn't blocked off. On & Off ramps all over the city. Chose one and use it.

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:09:43 AM EDT

[#25]

Post from ryann:

Statistics can show that LE is not necessarily the most hazardous duty in the country, but you also have to qualify the data. Being LEO in a large urban area is more dangerous than being a rural county deputy sheriff that spends most of his time in the jail.

Uh-oh a crack in that SOLID BLUE LINE!

So, if some Deputy Sheriff Fife dies in a single car accident after hours, he shouldn't be given a military-style funeral?

Theres more construction workers and farmers getting hurt everyday for sure, but thers also a hell of a lot MORE construction workers and farmers in this country than there are cops.[.quote]
That's why we use 'statistics', ryann!

The most statistically dangerous job in the nation is ---- the President!
All you know is what you read in the paper. Theres foot chases, shootings and fights going on everyday in the streets, incidents that never even make the news; but you don't wanna hear any of this, you're Eric the Hun, King of Ar15.Com and you know it all.

Well, thanks for your vote of confidence, but I gave up any crown years ago!

BTW, how is that lawsuit by White LEOs who were passed over in favor of Black LEOs in the City of Dallas going?

If there is a 'Brotherhood of Blue', is it sub-divided into 'light' Blue and 'dark' Blue?

Jes' checking!

Eric The(BoldAndRecklessKing)Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:15:14 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Actually, its much more of a spectacle than even military funerals are.

Yes, I was afraid of that!

As I say, when the 'special' becomes commonplace, what is left that is 'special'?

Society is odd at times.

Yes, it is indeed!

And some parts of society are odder than others!

Eric The(EvenTempered)Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:22:15 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Post from ryann:
Statistics can show that LE is not necessarily the most hazardous duty in the country, but you also have to qualify the data. Being LEO in a large urban area is more dangerous than being a rural county deputy sheriff that spends most of his time in the jail.

Uh-oh a crack in that SOLID BLUE LINE!

So, if some Deputy Sheriff Fife dies in a single car accident after hours, he shouldn't be given a military-style funeral?
Theres more construction workers and farmers getting hurt everyday for sure, but thers also a hell of a lot MORE construction workers and farmers in this country than there are cops.[.quote]
That's why we use 'statistics', ryann!

The most statistically dangerous job in the nation is ---- the President!
All you know is what you read in the paper. Theres foot chases, shootings and fights going on everyday in the streets, incidents that never even make the news; but you don't wanna hear any of this, you're Eric the Hun, King of Ar15.Com and you know it all.

Well, thanks for your vote of confidence, but I gave up any crown years ago!

BTW, how is that lawsuit by White LEOs who were passed over in favor of Black LEOs in the City of Dallas going?

If there is a 'Brotherhood of Blue', is it sub-divided into 'light' Blue and 'dark' Blue?

Jes' checking!

Eric The(BoldAndRecklessKing)Hun

Well I don't know about Deputy Fife, but a good friend and veteran officer of my agency was recently killed in a head on collision on Hwy 183. Guess what? NO POLICE FUNERAL, as it was off duty and he wasn't killed performing his police dutys.
Don't draw an equivilency between an officer dying, and an officer dying PERFORMING HIS DUTY FOR THE PUBLIC.
I just think its really, really sad the tone this thread has taken. Those of you that love to slam LEO everytime theres a cop/dog thread or questionable use of force won't even grant us the consideration of respectfully burying our dead.
Shame on you.

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:22:36 AM EDT

[#28]

you need to stop bickering and read this...AGAIN.

Actually, its much more of a spectacle than even military funerals are. I've been to three since 9/11, two killed in theater by enemy fire and one in theater non-battle, and niether had the kind of huge procession or traffic tie-ups that the LOD funerals for police have around here.

There were thousands lined on the route on the roadside to show thier respect for the soldiers however. Not so for the cops (there were some, but not near as many)..... maybe the profession feels obligated to show its own support when it doesn't get it from outside as a feel good measure. I dunno, I am not a phsycologist, but it makes me wonder.

This did get me thinking however, and I never noticed before but when you combine the 2 hour procession with everything else, there is actually more of a major production surrounding a LEO LOD funeral than that of a soldier who dies in battle. A true military funeral is simple, the flag covered casket, the folding of the flag and presentation to next of kin, 21 gun salute, and taps. No 400 vehicle procession from every military unit within a days drive or any of the rest.

Society is odd at times.

i have no idea why this is true, either.

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:23:52 AM EDT

[#29]

Its too bad the rest of us won't get such glory at our demise......it reminds me of a story by John Stossel, in which he asked who's done more to help out society:
Mother Theresa (Officers) or Mike Milton (Junk Bond Guy Civillian).

I do respect what officers do in our country, they deal with the shit of society, but their lives are no more precious, than that of anyone else.

Officers who've given their lives to carry out their duties did do so by choice, and bad circumstances led to their deaths. That, I'm sorry for. Just as I am of mother of 3, who gets gunned down at a bus stop, by some POS who needed money, and shot her for it.

If anything, that mother is just as priveleged and honored for NOT being a POS criminal, and working hard to better the lives of her children, who too will have died like a peace officer.

The only difference, the officer will make the headline news, 700 car procession, funeral costs taken care of by the state, and any surviviing kids will be entitled to a free college education.

The dead mother of 3, nothing......

I know, I know.......that's life! But my whole point, is that no one's life is above that of another.....each and every life is precious.

I agree with Sloth.....everyone has their own way of grieving for their losses, but there is such a thing as too much grieving, at the public's expense, whether or not it was a mother of 3, or a police officer.

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:32:20 AM EDT

[#30]

You know, I love this site. I usually enjoy the good humor and knowledge that is shared.

I consider many on this site (and some that posted here) to be my friends.

But when I read a thread like this, I am so disappointed, I wonder why I even participate here.

This is shameful.

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:36:03 AM EDT

[#31]

I think one of the differences is that in the military people transfer in and out of units all the time. To have the same group of coworkers and friends for many many years is probably unusual. The Policing community is pretty small, maybe 700k in the whole country. In a local area, many know each other thus many will ask to attend the funeral. It is never mandatory and is always voluntary. I have never seen a request to attend a police funeral turned down except for lack of space in the vehicles alloted. I have also never seen someone paid overtime to attend and those attending on duty are particularly chosen do to some special close relationship to the officer. The chief of course being salaried can make his own hours and would be expected to attend. In short, cop funerals are larger because simply put they are more special and there are fewer to go around. They also make alot more friends and more people feel the need to attend. I'm not particularly a funeral junkie, but, I will certainly attend, in uniform, a LOD death if it is nearby. Simply out of respect. I have also attended a few natural causes funerals. Those were much less elaborate. Perhaps a single car or two car escort. Close friends attending and maybe a single piper. Also its not 21 guns, its 9. Three volleys of three. Natural death would likely get the honor gaurd but not guns.

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:37:41 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
You know, I love this site. I usually enjoy the good humor and knowledge that is shared.

I consider many on this site (and some that posted here) to be my friends.

But when I read a thread like this, I am so disappointed, I wonder why I even participate here.

This is shameful.

Precisely what has been said by anyone here, including me, that you find so reprehensible?

We all need to know, for sometimes, just sometimes, even the well-sighted can be blind.

You KNOW how dead set against the 'militarization' of the police that I am, and that, my dear friend, is is NOT an anti-LEO position, but, actually, a pro-LEO position!

And these 'military-style' funerals simply serve to foster in some folks minds that there is a 'vast difference' between the Protectors and the Protected!

Do LEOs really want that?

I mean, really ?

Well, sorry, they can't be permitted to think of themselves as 'special' citizens if for no other reason than for the sake of Our Republic!

What boggles my mind is the lack of historical perspective that some, such as those who see nothing wrong with the 'pomp and circumstance' associated with some deaths over others, exhibit in this thread!

Eric The(YouKnowMe...)Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:48:14 AM EDT

[#33]

Frankly, when one of our brothers dies in the line of duty, we can have any kind of damned funeral we want to have. The funeral is more for the survivors than anyone else, and I have, unfortunately, been to several law enforcement funerals. They are fairly long and painful affairs for everyone involved. I hope to never go to another (except my own, which is inevitable, in the end, though I hope that it is a LONG ways off). The bottom line is that it is not your funeral, so it doesn't really matter what you think about it. So much for libertarian tolerance of others harmless actions.

Many of the rituals and ceremonial items in the LE funeral are unique to civilian law enforcement, while some customs are borrowed from the military. To further confuse matters, LE has long been a second career for veterans of the armed forces, so many LE funerals are also "military" ones for the veteran involved.

Eric, if you want to have a "military-style" funeral merely stipulate it in your will and get some close friends to agree to hold one for you. Or, if the thought rankles you that much, stipulate that they don't have one. Regardless of what you want, we will have any kind of legal funeral for our fallen comrades that we want. If you don't like it, too bad. It is not your funeral. I don't get upset at other's funeral rituals (although the stench from a Zoroastrian funeral might get pretty old after a couple of days, but those don't seem to happen that often).

I can't believe that some actually are getting riled up about this. How pathetic.

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:48:22 AM EDT

[#34]

if i read the burea of labor statistics correctly, there are MORE cops than there are farmers.

for farming AND fish AND forestry, there were 461, 630 jobs listed at an median pay of $7.32/hour.

for police and sherrif's patrol officers (not counting investagatory and mangerial personel) there were 609,060 jobs listed as of the last reporting period.

To have the same group of coworkers and friends for many many years is probably unusual.

shotar, i have over 24 years in here...can i please have a heroic viking funeral?

I have also never seen someone paid overtime to attend...

i have never known anyone that was even paid straight time to attend a funeral...guess it's because we 'civilians' do not draw from the state's coffers.

In short, cop funerals are larger because simply put they are more special and there are fewer to go around.

"more special??? i can't wait to read the responses to this!

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:50:29 AM EDT

[#35]

My agency has been around since 1821. We have conducted our funerals in the same manner for as long as the history books recall. Yes cars replaced horses and foot parades but the same in general respect.

Shot( the traditionalist ) AR

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:52:25 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Yesterday a local LEO was laid to rest here in Indy. He was the officer that was shot with the SKS. I have a lot of respect ofr our LEO community. I was curious why LEO's are basically given a military type funeral. Flag on the coffin, taps, riderless horse, etc. For a civilian funeral it seems like a lot of military symbolism...why?

On a side note, I'd like to give the person whom decided to have the 700 car funeral procession drive through Indy at rush hour, a piece of my mind. I'm sure most of these fellas had the day off, but those of us that may work more than one job were pretty much screwed when they basically shut down the downtown area.

I'm glad your concern about rush hour traffic is more important than the respect for a slain officer.

Fucking amazing

Posted: 8/24/2004 10:57:52 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
if i read the burea of labor statistics correctly, there are MORE cops than there are farmers.

for farming AND fish AND forestry, there were 461, 630 jobs listed at an median pay of $7.32/hour.

for police and sherrif's patrol officers (not counting investagatory and mangerial personel) there were 609,060 jobs listed as of the last reporting period.

To have the same group of coworkers and friends for many many years is probably unusual.

shotar, i have over 24 years in here...can i please have a heroic viking funeral?

I have also never seen someone paid overtime to attend...

i have never known anyone that was even paid straight time to attend a funeral...guess it's because we 'civilians' do not draw from the state's coffers.

In short, cop funerals are larger because simply put they are more special and there are fewer to go around.

"more special??? i can't wait to read the responses to this!

I don't know what you do for a living, but if you have a job that wouldnt allow you to go to a co-workers funeral that was killed while performing his job on company time, you need to find a new emmployer.
I'll take your stats at your word, but are there more cops than farmers, construction workers and factory workers COMBINED? I don't think so.

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:01:47 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Frankly, when one of our brothers dies in the line of duty, we can have any kind of damned funeral we want to have. The funeral is more for the survivors than anyone else, and I have, unfortunately, been to several law enforcement funerals. They are fairly long and painful affairs for everyone involved. I hope to never go to another (except my own, which is inevitable, in the end, though I hope that it is a LONG ways off). The bottom line is that it is not your funeral, so it doesn't really matter what you think about it. So much for libertarian tolerance of others harmless actions.

Now, natez, forgive me for introducing a discordant note in your well written anthem.

It matters IF the taxpayer is asked to pay for this 'any kind of damned service that you want' funeral.

Forgive me for inserting that small monetary matter in this thread.

[Many of the rituals and ceremonial items in the LE funeral are unique to civilian law enforcement, while some customs are borrowed from the military.

Yes, that is precisely what this thread is about, isn't it?

To further confuse matters, LE has long been a second career for veterans of the armed forces, so many LE funerals are also "military" ones for the veteran involved.

No one confuses the two.

I have been to both.

Eric, if you want to have a "military-style" funeral merely stipulate it in your will and get some close friends to agree to hold one for you.

If I truly desired to have such a funeral, I doubt my Estate or my friends could pay for it!

Or, if the thought rankles you that much, stipulate that they don't have one. Regardless of what you want, we will have any kind of legal funeral for our fallen comrades that we want. If you don't like it, too bad. It is not your funeral.

You may have whatever funeral that you, your friends and the fallen comrade's family can afford.

Just like the rest of us citizens.

I don't get upset at other's funeral rituals (although the stench from a Zoroastrian funeral might get pretty old after a couple of days, but those don't seem to happen that often).

There is a political quotient in this discussion, you know.

And that is objection to the 'militarization' of law enforcement.

Our Founding Fathers were scared spitless about a 'standing army' that could be used to lord over the citizenry by an evil government!

I fear that what they feared is fast coming to fruition.

I can't believe that some actually are getting riled up about this. How pathetic.

Well, then, you may not have given these questions sufficient thought.

Otherwise, you would understand our fears and thoughts about this matter!

Eric The(OfficiousIntermeddler)Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:06:31 AM EDT

[#39]

Well after finally reading the 4 pages of cop bashing here I sit here speechless.

It is truly amazing the lengths people on this site will go to to bash a cop.

Bashing a slain officer's funeral is the lowest of low. I guess the fact he was a 8 year active duty veteran of the USMC means nothing, 4 years of duty to the city of Indianapolis means nothing, and the fact he was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions on August 18 means nothing.

Yeah, he was no one special. He should've been given a farmer's burial.

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:07:32 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Frankly, when one of our brothers dies in the line of duty, we can have any kind of damned funeral we want to have. The funeral is more for the survivors than anyone else, and I have, unfortunately, been to several law enforcement funerals. They are fairly long and painful affairs for everyone involved. I hope to never go to another (except my own, which is inevitable, in the end, though I hope that it is a LONG ways off). The bottom line is that it is not your funeral, so it doesn't really matter what you think about it. So much for libertarian tolerance of others harmless actions.

Now, natez, forgive me for introducing a discordant note in your well written anthem.

It matters IF the taxpayer is asked to pay for this 'any kind of damned service that you want' funeral.

Forgive me for inserting that small monetary matter in this thread.
[Many of the rituals and ceremonial items in the LE funeral are unique to civilian law enforcement, while some customs are borrowed from the military.

Yes, that is precisely what this thread is about, isn't it?
To further confuse matters, LE has long been a second career for veterans of the armed forces, so many LE funerals are also "military" ones for the veteran involved.

No one confuses the two.

I have been to both.
Eric, if you want to have a "military-style" funeral merely stipulate it in your will and get some close friends to agree to hold one for you.

If I truly desired to have such a funeral, I doubt my Estate or my friends could pay for it!
Or, if the thought rankles you that much, stipulate that they don't have one. Regardless of what you want, we will have any kind of legal funeral for our fallen comrades that we want. If you don't like it, too bad. It is not your funeral.

You may have whatever funeral that you, your friends and the fallen comrade's family can afford.

Just like the rest of us citizens.
I don't get upset at other's funeral rituals (although the stench from a Zoroastrian funeral might get pretty old after a couple of days, but those don't seem to happen that often).

There is a political quotient in this discussion, you know.

And that is objection to the 'militarization' of law enforcement.

Our Founding Fathers were scared spitless about a 'standing army' that could be used to lord over the citizenry by an evil government!

I fear that what they feared is fast coming to fruition.
I can't believe that some actually are getting riled up about this. How pathetic.

Well, then, you may not have given these questions sufficient thought.

Otherwise, you would understand our fears and thoughts about this matter!

Eric The(OfficiousIntermeddler)Hun

"Otherwise you would understand our fears and thoughts about this matter"! ETH
You have "fears" over this matter? There now, calm down, there were police funerals long before the burgeoning 'militarization' of law enforcement that terrifys you.

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:10:47 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Well after finally reading the 4 pages of cop bashing here I sit here speechless.

It is truly amazing the lengths people on this site will go to to bash a cop.

Bashing a slain officer's funeral is the lowest of low. I guess the fact he was a 8 year active duty veteran of the USMC means nothing, 4 years of duty to the city of Indianapolis means nothing, and the fact he was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions on August 18 means nothing.

Yeah, he was no one special. He should've been given a farmer's burial.

Where is all this 'bashing' that I keep hearing about?

You folks need to get hold of a dictionary that will explain that words have meanings!

Please remember that it's not a good idea to use 'hard' words when 'soft' ones will do!

Eric The(NoBashingThatIKnowOf...None)Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:17:17 AM EDT

[#42]

I don't know what you do for a living, but if you have a job that wouldnt allow you to go to a co-workers funeral that was killed while performing his job on company time, you need to find a new emmployer.

no problem getting time off to attend.

big problem getting paid to go...in a company vehicle. nor would my company bill the state for the traffic cops. they would pay for them out of pocket.

but hey...i just want a plain old, simple heroic viking funeral.

my estate might cover most of that, but please...bring your own bottle and bagpipes.

He should've been given a farmer's burial.

damnit, seth! i snorted coke over that! i think that would make a great sig line for someone!

i can see it now...12 hours of traffic snarled as a slow parade of tractors and heifers parade past in reverence.

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:17:30 AM EDT

[#43]

Post from ryann -

"Otherwise you would understand our fears and thoughts about this matter"! - ETH
You have "fears" over this matter? There now, calm down, there were police funerals long before the burgeoning 'militarization' of law enforcement that terrifys you.

Trust me, I am terrified that folks somewhat like former Police Chief Terrell Bolton will send 'ueber LEOs' out for some 'search and destroy' missions in Dallas some day!

And I live in Wylie!

But I understand the ryann position - it ain't happened here yet, and so long as the doughnuts shops are open - no one needs to worry!

BTW, you never addressed that 'light Blue' versus 'dark Blue' question that I posed to you?

How is the Affirmative Action suit against the City of Dallas going?

Not exactly chips and dip and racial harmony around the DPA nowadays, is it?

When the dust settles, there will be a dazed or unconscious mugging victim lying helpless on the ground - the City of Dallas Taxpayer!

Eric The(SaveThePublicFisc,First)Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:20:03 AM EDT

[#44]

Quite honestly hun, you have been bashing from the start. You have been overtly antagonistic to the manner in which Seth and his fellow co workers chose to honor their fallen comrade. While you don't like it, the police services in this country are in fact an armed service. Not military, but certainly not civillian in the pure sense. They are a defacto armed force and some traditions certainly may overlap. I guess somewhere after your utopia was formed it was decided that there might be domestic enemies that required an armed service somewhere a notch below and apart from the military to deal with. Thus we have the police, who's job it is to keep the peace, investigate domestic crime and maintain order. Better than having soldiers do it was of course the thought. This officer in indy gave his all for his Nation, Community and State. Instead of honoring his service you chose to take umberage with the funeral traditions of his city and agency. I call that bashing and I call them as I see them.

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:22:36 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Well after finally reading the 4 pages of cop bashing here I sit here speechless.

It is truly amazing the lengths people on this site will go to to bash a cop.

Bashing a slain officer's funeral is the lowest of low. I guess the fact he was a 8 year active duty veteran of the USMC means nothing, 4 years of duty to the city of Indianapolis means nothing, and the fact he was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions on August 18 means nothing.

Yeah, he was no one special. He should've been given a farmer's burial.

Where is all this 'bashing' that I keep hearing about?

You folks need to get hold of a dictionary that will explain that words have meanings!

Please remember that it's not a good idea to use 'hard' words when 'soft' ones will do!

Eric The(NoBashingThatIKnowOf...None)Hun

Speaking of a dictionary.....

ci·vil·ian Audio pronunciation of "civilian" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-vlyn)
n.

1. A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military or police.
2. A specialist in Roman or civil law.

We've been giving military funeral since before you and I were born, and they will continue, whether you like it or not.

Often, cops die protecting the "sheep", despite what most here like to say, a lot of folks depend upon public services like the police and honor their sacrifce.

AZ(a taste of your own medicine)K9

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:33:00 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Every day that a LEO goes to work, there is a chance that it will be their last... The difference is that police ~~intentionally~~ VOLUNTARILY go in harms way.

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:36:15 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Post from ryann -
"Otherwise you would understand our fears and thoughts about this matter"! - ETH
You have "fears" over this matter? There now, calm down, there were police funerals long before the burgeoning 'militarization' of law enforcement that terrifys you.

Trust me, I am terrified that folks somewhat like former Police Chief Terrell Bolton will send 'ueber LEOs' out for some 'search and destroy' missions in Dallas some day!

And I live in Wylie!

But I understand the ryann position - it ain't happened here yet, and so long as the doughnuts shops are open - no one needs to worry!

BTW, you never addressed that 'light Blue' versus 'dark Blue' question that I posed to you?

How is the Affirmative Action suit against the City of Dallas going?

Not exactly chips and dip and racial harmony around the DPA nowadays, is it?

When the dust settles, there will be a dazed or unconscious mugging victim lying helpless on the ground - the City of Dallas Taxpayer!

Eric The(SaveThePublicFisc,First)Hun

The "light blue" versus "dark blue" controversy, as you put it, is an internal issue that Jim Schutze can fill you in on. I'm not involved in it, so I have no particular insight, but I'm not quite sure what your Taxpayer-mugging victim analogy is trying to say.
You surely don't promote racial preference in the work place do you? As a lawyer yourself, surely you recognize the right of redress in the courts don't you?

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:39:16 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Post from ryann -
"Otherwise you would understand our fears and thoughts about this matter"! - ETH
You have "fears" over this matter? There now, calm down, there were police funerals long before the burgeoning 'militarization' of law enforcement that terrifys you.

Trust me, I am terrified that folks somewhat like former Police Chief Terrell Bolton will send 'ueber LEOs' out for some 'search and destroy' missions in Dallas some day!

And I live in Wylie!

But I understand the ryann position - it ain't happened here yet, and so long as the doughnuts shops are open - no one needs to worry!

BTW, you never addressed that 'light Blue' versus 'dark Blue' question that I posed to you?

How is the Affirmative Action suit against the City of Dallas going?

Not exactly chips and dip and racial harmony around the DPA nowadays, is it?

When the dust settles, there will be a dazed or unconscious mugging victim lying helpless on the ground - the City of Dallas Taxpayer!

Eric The(SaveThePublicFisc,First)Hun

Since you threw the race card I guess you need to change your title to Eric the (Lowlife johnny Cochran) Hun

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:46:56 AM EDT

[#49]

I was not trying to bash LEO's when I wrote this thread...I was simply comments on an event. I had questions and I was upset at the planning and rational for this event.

As I sat in traffic, at first I was obviously irritated...but the more I thought about it, the more I questioned why a civilian funneral is handeled like this. This was far beyond what a solider gets when he is killed in action. This was almost a kin to a presidental funneral (that point is raised in the first article I linked). This man died protecting the public, but would we see such a funneral for an everyday Joe that died trying to pull someone from a burning car? No we would not. It that article it also said that most of the attendents of the funneral never even knew the slain officer, yet they needed to have a 700 car procession.

Never once have I said he should not have been given a funneral procession, but why did they have to do it at a time of day and in a location that would effectively shut down Indy? As for the interstates, I was trying to...if you were inside the hairpin of the procession, access to the interstates was roadblocked off.

O_P is probably one of the people I most respect on this site. It was not my intention to offend nor insult anyone. I'm sure I'll be mud for starting this thread, but there were some things that I really just did not understand. This is the last time I will weigh in on this seriouly ugly thread.

Posted: 8/24/2004 11:52:10 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quite honestly hun, you have been bashing from the start.

Nonsense!

I simply object to any insertion of military forms, rites, functions, or anything else into what is basically a civilian job or profession!

They used to be called 'peace officers.'

You have been overtly antagonistic to the manner in which Seth and his fellow co workers chose to honor their fallen comrade.

Nope. Not at all.

Just leave all the military hoopla at the post, field, base, whatever.

While you don't like it, the police services in this country are in fact an armed service.

I don't like it.

I think you understand my position, and you can mischaracterize it all you wish, but it's one that's shared by many, many others.

As you well know.

Not military, but certainly not civillian in the pure sense.

Neither fowl nor fish!

The more's the pity, then, I should say!

They are a defacto armed force and some traditions certainly may overlap.

It's called conscious imitation.

Over and out!

I guess somewhere after your utopia was formed it was decided that there might be domestic enemies that required an armed service somewhere a notch below and apart from the military to deal with.

Yeah, that is just what our Founding Fathers tried so desperately to guard against!

And they were just lacking in the imagination necessary to think that 'peace officers' might one day volunteer to be men of war!

Thus we have the police, who's job it is to keep the peace, investigate domestic crime and maintain order.

Order was the usual condition of this nation, until we decided that simple otherwise lawful things needed to be outlawed.

And when the common became contraband, the people continued as they did before, and became instant criminals, thereby needing more 'peace officers' to restore the peace!

Better than having soldiers do it was of course the thought.

And when there is no longer any factual distinction between LEO and soldier, what then?

What then?

This officer in indy gave his all for his Nation, Community and State.

Yes, he did.

Instead of honoring his service you chose to take umberage with the funeral traditions of his city and agency.

So, in YOUR WORLD, I have to toss out my genuinely held and time-honored political views entirely and embrace a full-blown military funeral, with the pomp and circumstance of an ancient Roman emperor, simply in order to honor this fallen man?

Thanks, but I hope that even the fallen officer would not require such an un-American thing!

I call that bashing and I call them as I see them.

See? And there are those who wish to ban the 'bashing' of LEOs, and I can assure you that their definitions of 'bashing' will differ from yours and mine.

That is stupid.

So incredibly stupid that it must have caused your hands to tremble when you typed that line!

Eric The(Debate,OrNotDebate,ButDon'tCutThePASystemAndThinkYou'vePrevailed)Hun

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