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We are talking about any scenario that can likely happen while in the home. I see your attempt at a defection. A struggle downstairs involving another family member with an intruder is something that can realistically happen.

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Umm, we train for headshots with buckshot. Quite doable at in home distances. Try it sometime at 15' and measure the hole.

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That's a poor spread.  You basically get no assistance with your aim from that.

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Ever run drills in a shoot no shoot house? I can’t take anyone serious who would prefer headshots with buckshot on close proximity encounters requiring surgical precision. It’s the reason why I took my ball home last night. The level of disingenuousness displayed here by the shotgun crowd to win an argument or to justify their crappy decisions that go against what top tier CQB specialists actually use for good reason is telling.

I’m going to work now.

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Everything you said is valid. We need more posters like you.

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That's exactly it.  No first hand experience.

Same with the "brutal recoil" etc comments.  If I can take a troop of Boy Scouts (the oldest being 14) and find that I burn 250 rounds of buckshot when they have no problem at all  making COM hits after 20 minutes of instruction,  then GD just may be wrong.

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Ever run drills in a shoot no shoot house? I can’t take anyone serious who would prefer headshots with buckshot on close proximity encounters requiring surgical precision. It’s the reason why I took my ball home last night. The level of disingenuousness displayed here by the shotgun crowd to win an argument or to justify their crappy decisions that go against what top tier CQB specialists actually use for good reason is telling.

I’m going to work now.

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I prefer high mounted optics indoors because of the situational awareness the head position gives you.

Height over bore doesn’t matter if you know it exists.

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It's quite a job cleaning the grill after the lunch rush, isn't it?

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@Gunnie357 thanks, that's all good info and makes sense.

I set up my Rattler for HD because I'm a former 3gunner. I wanted something I was familiar with (AR rifle) as I shot a billion rounds through the platform in training and matches. I thought something that's use would occupy as little of my mind during a bad event made the most sense. I wanted something that could do work inside the house (big house, I have a ~25 yard shot possibility front door to back) but still reach out as far as I can see in my wooded neighborhood.  I get the idea of "get both" but was thinking any second of indecision on what to grab during an event would slow me down.

My neighbor became an active shooter a few months ago and killed 2 cops in my front yard. So got to put the theories to the test. My mind was all fucked up and listening and calling 911 but I was able to be pretty instantly comfortable with the rifle in my hands. I didn't need it thank goodness, but was nice to know it was something that could do work.

Upon reflection, I mostly posted up between my door and my kids and trained the rattler at the window next to the direction they would be coming from. I could have used almost anything. Part of me is now thinking the 12 gauge semi would be a good option, as if things transitioned outside and/or more than 50 yards away they aren't really my problem anymore.

I haven't shot much shotgun in a while but an SLP/A300 manual of arms is in my brain there somewhere. Hell I could quad load at one point

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It's been more than two or three.

And it was you who said "the best" use something else for CQB...and yet here I have some of the best who are using a shotgun to protect their home.



Not if you understand how to mitigate it. Which is one of the things those guys were in my class to learn.



I don't think you understand capacity very well. Pistols and your typical AR do not generally force someone to stop with a single application. It generally takes multiple applications at close range to accomplish the task of physically incapacitating the person who is trying to kill you. The shotgun when loaded intelligently and wielded with a little bit of skill accomplishes that goal with a single trigger press with more reliability than pistols or typical carbines.

That is, in fact, one of the primary reasons those guys were in my class. They've shot a lot of people with ARs. They've also seen shotguns work at close range. They made their choice.



Actually with a proper pattern, you most certainly can do that. And in some of my classes we actually set up targetry that requires that kind of shot because entanglement with occupants of the home is more common in home defense situations than most think. This is one of the reasons why I continue to yell into the void in the internet about the folly of depending on pattern spread as a means of hoping you hit shit, because in the real world all that spread you are hoping will hit the dude with a couple of pellets just makes it more difficult to be accountable for your foreground and background when you are forced to shoot inside your own home.



As I said, I simulate entangled shooting with a shotgun regularly in class. And if I had to take a shot with entanglement involved for real, I'd much sooner have my shotgun in hand than my carbine because my shotgun doesn't have offset to worry about.



I would. In a heartbeat. At the sort of distances where a real-life entangled shot actually happens, it's at pretty close range...and with proper ammunition selection you can accomplish that with a shotgun just the same as with a pistol. In fact, here's a police officer doing exactly that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omTcmMa1hxc



"extended shootouts" rarely occur in home defense situations.

Generally once someone cuts loose with a 12 gauge whoever is left standing seeks their entertainment elsewhere.



If I am defending my home, it won't be a last stand. At least not for me.