[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Rice Rockets (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/4/2004 8:41:05 AM EDT
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Has anyone ever gotten into this fad? Now I'm all about muscle cars, NHRA Top Fuel, etc. But it seems like these Honda Civics can be made into some pretty impressive performance machines, for less money than muscle cars/corvettes/mustangs, etc. Keep in mind, I'm talking PERFORMANCE machines (street racers, drags, etc), NOT bling-bling mobiles. Where can I get more info? |
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You'll get a bunch of people telling you that a $20,000 dollar accord will not match a $55,000 C5 corvette. well no shit. hmm 1.6 four cylinder versus, 350 cubic fuel injected engine, oh and $35,000 dollars IMHO they can be fun, and as long as you are reasonable about what to expect out of it than its good to go, I really wan't to drop a prelude engine into my GF's Civic, with new exhaust, intake sway bars and springs, bring it up to a zippy little good handling car for her, all for the cost of parts and tinkering with it as time permisses. (cause she doesn't need a 427 cobra) |
this is true check out www.turbovan.com/ |
Actually, I caught a show on (one of the TLC/Disc/HIST/etc) channels that was covering this, and it mentioned that with some added upgrades (which would total to be less than a 'vette) the civic could out perform it. I think it had like an 800+hp engine. |
A little off topic but in the same vain, I saw a special about these new dragsters they built using four cylinder engines, and with all these crazy race add ons and specialties (like a milled aluminum block etc...) they got it to run in the same times as a top fuel dragster. but something like 1/4 the fuel it took the v-8 things that make you go hmmmmm |
| I guess im sick or somthing, i keep wanting to build a ricer. i used to always have steros. used to compete. this is the next step. im afraid the neon lights are cool. i would love to build one up. the stero would eb cool the car could be cool. But at 31 people think im crazy. there is some nice rides out there. allot of money in them. you should check out tuner transframtion on speed the do some crazy stuff to cars. nothing beats amercian power but a ricer for a every day driver cant be beat rememebr the insurance will be cheaper than a vet also. so i f i didnt have the gun habbit i would do this. still might even though Duke Nukem and them think im crazy for it. the type of women that like this are usually the type i fall for. Ronald |
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www.importtuner.com/ www.hondatuningmagazine.com/ Should get you started good! BigDozer66 |
It could be done. It is all about HP to weight ratio. BigDozer66 |
And the F&F car was a supra, which is an twin turbo 3.0 liter inline 6, and there are plenty of supras that can keep up with the strongest of musclecars. And if it was a 4 cylinder it could be done too, for a lot more money though. There are plenty of 4 cylinder blocks that have been pushed to around 1000 hp. No put a 900ish hp 4 banger in a car that weighs half what the charger does, and you can see the power ot weight difference. Not that F&F wasn't fake though, the supra in the movie wasn't even really a turboed model. For that matter, the charger wasnt real either.. |
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You'll get a bunch of people telling you that a $20,000 dollar accord will not match a $55,000 C5 corvette. Base price on the 2005 C6 Corvette is $43K (MSRP) and it comes standard with 400HP and 400ft/lbs. It's actually $1K cheaper than a stock 2004 C5. Where you get the $55K figure for a C5, I don't know. Maybe a convertable. I paid about $44K for my 2002 C5 new, and that was with the top end 1SC package - about $4K off of MSRP. Alas I traded it for this (2004 Dodge RAM SRT-10/500HP/525ft-lbs/508 watt Infinity sound system/22" wheels with Perelli Scorpions):  |
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My car: stock '99 Miata Me: 225 pound boring white guy Car: 30 miles to the gallon at 70 with a/c and my fat ass. When the a/c is off and I'm down to 190, she is a screaming little fun machine. Cost: I won it in a sales contest free and clear. The only thing I had to pay for was the fed income tax. Result: Every so other I think I need something larger to haul my Issy FALO around in. But the feeling passes every time I start her up and zoom off. Cons: My gray hair shows up too easily on the black upholstery. |
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Those are crotch rockets! |
See turbododge.com for more info on making a cheap car fly. |
You will not be able to make a Civic that (A) lasts, and (B) goes faster than a 97-02 F-Body for less money than buying the used, faster car.... Now, before you say '800hp $20k car' or whatever... A 285HP F-body used goes for ~$7,000-8,000 right now, unmodified. The newer used ones get up to around $18-20k, and have 305-325hp, stock. You will, by far, get more power with THAT as a base car than you will with a Civic, and in alot safer manner in terms of keeping the engine alive.... You can make an 800hp Civic, but how long will it last? Better to start with an engine that has room to grow, rather than one that's been teched & tuned to the max just to put out 180hp.... |
Check out the times over at turbododge.com, those guys are flying with nothing but $1000 cars, $500, and a couple JY mods. |
I really just pulled it out of my ass, just quoting what a good quality hi-po car would go for, $44k? damn you got a good deal. |
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I have no doubt that a Civic can be made to run faster than a Corvette for less money. Sort of. I am willing to bet, however, that such an example only includes the cost of parts added to the Civic...and that a person is doing it himself. If you PAY for the labor for someone else to do it? I really doubt you will even come close. Secondly, I am willing to bet that the modifications done to the Civic will make it not exactly comforable to drive, nor will it be as reliable by any stretch. |
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An 800HP Civic is a time bomb waiting to happen unless you put a hell of a lot of money into it and really know what you're doing. Not to mention that 800HP is all top end. HP isn't everything, torque is what matters in drag racing and you won't get nearly the same amount of torque out of a little 1.8L 800HP Civic engine as you will a 350 V8. Not to mention you have the problem of front wheel drive. If you want a race car you're better off with AWD or RWD. Nothing sucks like reving a tiny engine up on the line just to barely get a marginal amount of torque to get a good start off the line, only to have your tires spinning because all the weight of the car is shifted to the back when you accelerate. And then there's understeer. I'll take RWD with oversteer or AWD any day of the week over FWD if I'm going to race. And if you think it's cheaper to tune a Civic engine for power go pick up some of David Vizard's books on tuning the SBC 350. He's put together engines for under 2 grand that crank out massive amounts of power. It's not hard to do if you know where to look for parts and you know how to properly tune an engine. I don't have anything against true import tuners (not the ricer Fast & Furious wannabies) that know what they're doing. They've built some awsome cars, but saying that some little import engine is easier, cheaper and more capable of going faster than a domestic V8 is just not true. |
Theoretically at 5252. Edit: Basically, my point is that if you want to take full advantage of that 800HP (all else being equal, weight of the car, gearing, aerodynamics, etc.) that a car with 800HP and not much low end torque will be slower than a car with 800HP w/ low end torque in a drag race situation. |
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Two words--CUBIC DOLLARS!! F-1 has already shown monster horse power per liter with astronomical boost levels,its really a question of building a bullet-proof lower end for any real world reliability and longevity. (And welding the cylinder heads to the block  )The last I heard the 4cyl Top Fuel dragbikes were at about 1.7-1.8L and easily pumping 1100+ H.P. Ive been outa the game for awhile so Im outa touch with the market. Anythings possible...............how fat is your wallet? Ohh....BTW.....Yes HP and torque do intersect @ 5250 rpm......(why?I dunno) its a good way to look at someones dyno sheet and tell if its in synch |
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making an import car a "rice rocket" has nothing to do with performance. Putting in a larger engine, or upgrading parts to boost performance is not rice. What is rice includes: spoiler over non-drive wheels. larger bling wheels for no apparent reason. large rear exhaust "fart can" for noise with no performance gain super friggen loud blow-off valves (if they actually have a turbo) light kits - you know what I'm talking about. stickers from companies that don't have parts i nyour car, and don't sponsor you stickers that say "Powered by Honda" or chinese characters. any fake "Type-R" or "V-SPEC" or "VTEC" logos (because they make you go faster) large, booming sound systems - because that extra weight helps you go faster downhill. That said, no I have never gotten into a "rice rocket phase" however I do own a Japanese car that is almost completely stock and can hold it's own very well. |
Why? Because HP is a function of torque...... Which is the point that was missed......if the engine is putting out 800hp then let's say a random number like 500hp is occuring at ~5250rpm.......which means 500lbs-ft of torque is occuring at ~5250rpm. The torque curve can't just go from nothing to 500 in a few RPM...... Granted, it's not the torque curve of a V8 or V10, but I wouldn't sneeze at 500lbs-ft of torque at 5250rpm....... |
Can we get these numbers with LB/HP? The '04 STI runs at 10.99lb/HP |
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YUP........Thats understood.........(hell Id love 500@ 5250...........IN A DUCATI !!  )No I ment I couldnt figue out(remember) was WHY 5250? and WHY ALWAYS @ 5250(not 6215 or say 4875rpm??) whats so magical about 5250................(I think I read it years ago ....something weird to do with some law of physics) |
BIG DITTO !! 
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Yes, I believe that the actual equasion is HP = TQ * RPM/5252 Which means that at 5252RPM the RPM/5252 cancels out and tq=HP at 5252 RPM.
I certainly wouldn't sneeze at 500HP at 5252 RPM either. I'm not familiar with the HP or TQ curve of this so called 800HP civic, but I'd be willing to say that any V8 putting out 800HP will be producing quite a bit more torque at around 2000RPM than the 800HP civic, which will give it an advantage in a drag race situation(again, everything else being equal). |
Exactly. I'm assuming we're not considering nitrous for the Civic's 800 HP. In total, I would include the following to make a fair comparison: - Price out the parts AND the labor, as stated above - Market value of final product (800 HP Civic versus stock C5, you will likely want to sell it at some point) - Other aspects of performance such as turning and braking - Fuel economy (ALL 800 HP cars get super-shitty fuel economy AND they use premium) - Styling - Comfort - Durability Also, can I buy a used C5? About $27.5k will get me a low miles '01 coupe 6-speed via the private market (non-dealer sales). To make it fair, you can use an '01 Civic as your project car. Can you make an '01 Civic beat 13.0 in the 1/4 for $27.5k total investment (including labor) NOT using nitrous? Now satisfy the other six criteria I listed above. If you're after the cheapest way to drag race, consider modding an older Fox-Body Mustang ('87-'93) or LT1 F-Body ('93-'97). Better yet, consider modding a 1000cc Japanese sportbike. |
