User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 12:16:11 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I would consider an order of this kind to be an illegal order. Not to mention immoral. I will not, can not, follow an order of this type. Oath? Hmmmm. The Ammendment guarintees the right to keep and bear arms. So, any order that violates that Ammendment would be an attack on the Constitution. Which, is what I have sworn to protect, against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. A Constitutional law expert would have to tell me which takes precidence, the Constitution, or the "officers appointed over me". thats what iv been saying all along,and i will not think a second time about killing anyone who try's to take away our constitution i dont care if they have us army or un on there bdu's they are the enemie.and i have been sworn to protect, against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 12:36:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Sniper_762x51,
I guess it's just best that we agree to disagree. I don't see how you can compare a military that was drafted to an all volunteer force. Many of those troops in Viet-Nam didn't want to be in the military let alone in Viet-Nam. You stated "we no longer have the will to do what ever is necessary to win." I take that as a personal attack on my integrity. I also take that as a slap on the face to every man and women in the service today. We all volunteered to give our lives if necessary for this country. My grandfather was a WWII vet. He was a prisoner of war and was awarded the bronze star twice. I would feel great dishonor to him and all American vets if I didn't do what it took to win and come home. As for these high tech weapons you're talking about I disagree with that as well. I was in the Air Force and would love to take credit for winning the Gulf war. However that's just not true. In the end it was the Army, behind their M16's that drove the 4th largest army in the world out of Kuwait. You sound like one of those guys that sits and bitches about everything the our government does yet does nothing to change it. Not only to we have the right to bare arms we also have the right to VOTE! That's were all this started and that's how it can all get changed! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 2:22:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Gentleman
I would subject you actually go out and read some history. You will find it replete with insistences of guerrilla operations failing. And to the questions of how does the US military fight guerrilla? Well, I can only speak for the Marines. We have been doing it most of out history. Since 1775 the Marine Corps has fought in over 200 conflicts. Only about half of them would be what some of you would refer to as conventional operations. In this century, without cracking a book, I can think of three times the Marines hunted down and eliminated guerilla forces in their own nations. Morros In the Philippines, The Kackos rebels in Haiti and the Sandina lead rebellion in Nicaragua. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 2:38:42 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: That is a very difficult discision. And anyone who says it isn't is a liar. To throw away a career, lifestyle, and perhaps my family's well being. I don't think I could consciously carry out an order like that. I don't think I will ever be asked to, either. But, if so, it will be a very hard descision, even though I know the right choice. (Of course then, the soldiers of the 3rd reich aren't very high on anyones love list) And UN forces on MY country's soil, only if we were doing co-op training exersizes. James James, I respect you for answering honestly, however this was just the sort of answer I feared, and the reason that I started this thread. The fact that you, a member of the 'assault rifle' community, would even consider this order, makes me fear that folks that are less interested in gun rights would not hesitate as much on this issue. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 2:48:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Guys, this is getting off the subject and turning into a "my squad can kick the s**t outta your militia" (and the other way around) thread.
That fact that folks are claiming they would be able to easily crush any US rebel 'uprising' is slightly disturbing. I'll be honest, if folks knocked on my door for my guns, I'd tell them my whole collection fell in the lake on my last fishing trip, but I don't think I'd have the balls to fight or risk my family's lives by fighting for my guns. So my point is, I don't want folks telling me it would be pointless to fight IF the US military participated in a gun grab, I'd rather hear folks say, "it won't happen because I would not participate in confiscation." |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 7:29:43 AM EDT
[#6]
Sniper says:
>>darm, you have no idea about what you are saying.<< OH? I notice that in that whole long rambling post, you could not come up with a single example to contradict what I said. If I have no idea what I am saying, it should be pretty easy to contradict me. So, instead of making silly statements, how about some facts?? Come on, give us just one little example. Oh, you can't?? Looks like I do know what I am saying, and you're the one that has no idea. LOL!! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 7:35:24 AM EDT
[#7]
nipples
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 7:45:37 AM EDT
[#8]
I would grab guns and turn them on the oppressors!
The military is a pretty conservative organization. The work ethic, personal responsibility and accountablity are valued here. The core values of honor, courage and commitment are drilled into us. I have the honor to stand up for what I know is right, the courage to stand up against those who are wrong and the commitment to follow my honor though to the end. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 7:50:04 AM EDT
[#9]
Sniper_762x51,
I am not sure what fantasy world you live in, but you will not be fighting against US troops on US soil. It aint gonna happen. If such an operation was ordered those who were willing do it would never get started, those of us who were not would see to that. It is much easier to stop something fom the inside. In the event of such an unlikely order the military would be rendered inneffective from within pretty dammed quickly. As far as not knowing how guerillas fight, the best guerilla fighetrs and trainers are at Ft. Bragg and everywhere else in the country, and there are alot more of them than you think. And if you think engaging individually as a sniper or small rifle team will keep you safe from high-tech weapons... get real. They may not call in some 155 fire on your ass, but the direct fire from that M1A2 120MM or the 25MM on the Bradley is gonna be directed at you without causeing as much damage in the surrounding area. Could be a Javelin, or maybe just a few MK19's mounted on HMMWV's. IIRC the USMC just fielded a new counter sniper weapon that consists of a MK19 controlled by a computer with acoustic sensors. All a sniper has to do is fire 1 shot and he has 40MM HE raining down on him before he can even start to move. Oh, and engage me from anywhere in the countryside and a damm sure would call in a fire mission on 1 man if I needed to. So get that fantasy about killing us out of your head..most of us are on your side. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 7:56:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: So get that fantasy about killing us out of your head..most of us are on your side. That's reassuring--kinda. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 8:17:34 AM EDT
[#11]
well, i certainly hope that my faith in human nature will be justified when the time comes. i do have faith that ALL americans will do the RIGHT thing. look at the soviet union, the only reason, i repeat, THE ONLY REASON the USSR collapsed is because 100 or so, super brave, SOVIET soldiers refused to fire on their own people in and around the Kremlin. (yes, a trend was forming that would have ended the regime eventually,but anyway) they had A LOT more to lose than some rights! they faced 20 years hard labor for even THINKING about violating orders. they didn't have time to think, collude or plan - the order was given: FIRE the reply was given: go "----" yourselves!!!
i would NEVER compare our fine men and women to soviet russians, but my point is, people are people... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 8:23:31 AM EDT
[#12]
[b]The simple fact is that most guerrilla movements lose.[/b]
Ha! this is not true. what I would do is if I live in a certain area train yourself to learn how to escape into a safe haven getout has quickly look the situation over since I live in the country I have an old basement out in the middle of nowhere where I could easily escaped too well(I've have actually done this before and it works well) remember to buy guns that you do not have a form 4473's in your name let the asshole's confiscate the one's they do know(get them of your back) look into sniping I've read several post that your life would be ended they cannot kill for what they cannot see. id rather use a REM 700 300WIN mag over a AR, but use a AR for closer encounter's. the SOCOMM is "TRAINING FOR THIS". the government take's the militia has a terriost organization. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 8:39:19 AM EDT
[#13]
I am reusing some text from an earlier message:
The Irish Republican Army has kept the British bogged down in Northern Ireland since 1969 (thirty two years). They are estimated to never have numbered more than a core of [b]700[/b] terrorists, with their chief sympathizers, the Northern Ireland Catholics, numbering about 40% of the population, and their opponents, the Northern Ireland Protestants, bitterly hating them. They are an unpleasant example, but they show that it does not take much to bog down the government and make it search for non-military means out of a guerilla war. In a guerilla war, if the government is not winning, it is losing. More examples of irregular armed resistance to professional military forces that resulted in a final political victory: The French in Indochina/Vietnam, 1954. The French in Algeria, in the '60s. The US in Vietnam in the '70s. The Ian Smith government in Rhodesia in the '70s. The Soviets in Afghanistan, in the '80s. Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: Sniper_762x51, As far as not knowing how guerillas fight, the best guerilla fighetrs and trainers are at Ft. Bragg and everywhere else in the country, and there are a lot more of them than you think. Garand Shooter, good point, and there is a reason why the military takes guerilla fighters so seriously, no? The high tech weaponry you mention is fascinating stuff (really), but I can bet that there will always be ways to outwit it, and make it almost irrelevant. What the mind of man can make, the mind of man can also break. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 8:58:31 AM EDT
[#14]
Garand Shooter, good point, and there is a reason why the military takes guerilla fighters so seriously, no? Yep, they are a very good force multiplier. You can drop on 12 man A-team dehind the lines, let them organise a battalion sized element of resistance and harrass the hell outta the enemy in his rear area. 12 men can tie up hundreds of the enemy as they try to secure the rear area. But you will never find them used as the only option if we are serious about winning. The high tech weaponry you mention is fascinating stuff (really), but I can bet that there will always be ways to outwit it, and make it almost irrelevant. What the mind of man can make, the mind of man can also break. Some of it, yes. But I don't think you are gonna outwit the direct fire weapons I mentioned. The MK19 alone is one helluva sniper-exterminator. The M1 and Bradley can detect you with thier thermal imagers and engage very effectivly. Most people have no idea how thermal really works or how to hide from it, and those who know the theory have most likely never had access to the equipment to actually see if they can hide from it. Eventually you may figure it out..but do you have the time and bodies to waste untill you do? What I was pointing out was the foolishness of the idea that if you are in a small group the resources won't be used to get you. They will. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 8:59:14 AM EDT
[#15]
[b]So get that fantasy about killing us out of your head..most of us are on your side.[/b]
[left]I am aware about a computer tracking bullet path back to a sniper. I have family in the military I was in the military; most of you are on are side but you have to follow order's. I seriously do not think that they will use a military force on us. I do think they will try a national gun ban though this would be like Britain and Australia. i watched the discovery channel Seal's are training for this.[/b] |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:04:00 AM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: Some of it, yes. But I don't think you are gonna outwit the direct fire weapons I mentioned. The MK19 alone is one helluva sniper-exterminator. The M1 and Bradley can detect you with thier thermal imagers and engage very effectivly. Most people have no idea how thermal really works or how to hide from it, and those who know the theory have most likely never had access to the equipment to actually see if they can hide from it. Eventually you may figure it out..but do you have the time and bodies to waste untill you do? How 'bout a simple solar blanket to contain body heat? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:10:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: Some of it, yes. But I don't think you are gonna outwit the direct fire weapons I mentioned. The MK19 alone is one helluva sniper-exterminator. The M1 and Bradley can detect you with thier thermal imagers and engage very effectivly. Most people have no idea how thermal really works or how to hide from it, and those who know the theory have most likely never had access to the equipment to actually see if they can hide from it. Eventually you may figure it out..but do you have the time and bodies to waste untill you do? How 'bout a simple solar blanket to contain body heat? Nope, doesn't work. I figured it would too till I tried it. You do block some heat, but the important thing is that the thermal signature of the space blanket is still very different for that of the surroundings. you have to hide behind something that has the same thermal signature as the background, and untill you learn by trial and error you won't know how. Even a really well done ghille just looks like a distict blob under thermal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:13:44 AM EDT
[#18]
how about a hole in the ground expose very little of yourself take a shot the(like the trap door spider) close a dirt top?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:17:15 AM EDT
[#19]
...AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!
No matter how hard you want it. Look guys, let's be honest. It was a big disappointment that Y2K didn't result in SHTF. SHTF would have been fun. We could have lived out all of our Rambo fantasies the didn't work out for us in the service(s). We all could have felt so superior to those who were unprepared or unarmed.... ...but alas, it didn't happen. Well along comes this nonsense story about door-to-door UN gun confiscation... Hooray! More fun dreaming about fighting our evil blue helmeted oppressors. IN THE MEANTIME, REAL (NOT IMAGINARY) MEDIA BASED AND LEGISLATIVE EFFORTS ARE UNDERWAY, ATTEPTING TO TAKE AWAY OUR COLLECTIVE 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS. Wake up! Take off that silly Tac-Vest, wipe the camo paint off of your face. Take a deep breath and repeat this phrase: "The UN is not really coming to take my guns away." This is the first step. Now stop wasting your life dreaming about Red Dawn. Do something productive. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:18:10 AM EDT
[#20]
Enough suspense--what's the key?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:20:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Dirt covering overhead cover has a different signature than the surrounding dirt (becuase of the differing temp, moisture content, etc), and you better have prepared it well in advance because recently disturbed groud is very distictive, for at least a couple months... and each time you dig it shows up again.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:21:46 AM EDT
[#22]
[b]This is the first step. Now stop wasting your life dreaming about Red Dawn. Do something productive.[/b]
My therapist said i needed a hobby so this is it! i hate Golf. [:)] |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:21:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Enough suspense--what's the key? Practice, and a detailed list of the approximate thermal signatures of both natural and man made objects..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:26:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Your confident you can kick our ass's.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:29:52 AM EDT
[#25]
Hey, I've got lots of stuff too.
I love the topic. It's fun. The military's officer corps is 99% pro-gun Republican. Were circumstances and disaster to be just right, and the UN DID enter or was invited into the US, there would be civil war. HOWEVER, (take a deep breath) It wouldn't be the Militias (if there is such a thing) or even guerillas doing the fighting. It would be the various portions of the US armed forces. And that's why it would never happen in the first place. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:30:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Your confident you can kick our ass's. Not confident in anything...always training harder. But just pointing out holes in theories. For a reason. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:31:26 AM EDT
[#27]
If you ever get the chance to check out a thermal imager, you should definitely do it. It will be both obvious and dismaying to see how difficult it would be to hide from one. Crap, they can still see your footprints ten minutes after you walked by. The technology is simply incredible. I would be very frightened about having to deal with an enemy employing such difficult to defeat technology against me. I understand they have now miniaturized the technology enough to produce units capable of being mounted on rifles as optical sights.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:34:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Yes. I wish you black helicopter tin foil militia members just give it up. Leave the fighting to the trained professionals of the military and police. They will know what side stands with freedom.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:44:40 AM EDT
[#29]
I understand they have now miniaturized the technology enough to produce units capable of being mounted on rifles as optical sights. My Reserve unit will be fielding them in the next few months. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:49:05 AM EDT
[#30]
Then why did we get our ass's kicked in somalia!
all this high tech did not help use there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:54:09 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Then why did we get our ass's kicked in somalia! all this high tech did not help use there. Everyone knows that it is because 5.56, specifically ss109 is a completely ineffective round. You can shoot 90 lb somalis 15 times center mass and they will keep coming. Now if the military all had 1911's it would be a different story. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:56:31 AM EDT
[#32]
[b]Yes. I wish you black helicopter tin foil militia members just give it up. Leave the fighting to the trained professionals of the military and police. They will know what side stands with freedom.[/b]
1. Black helicopters: never seen one! 2. Tin foil militia member's: never seen one or been one. 3. Leave the training to the professionals: ive was 11 Bravo, we tripped over ourself's like in somalia yep i feel real safe. the only reason we WON desert storm is because other countries help us. 4. has for police where iam going to school at there training cadets. cocky young punks passing out speeding tickets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:58:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Then why did we get our ass's kicked in somalia! all this high tech did not help use there. We did not get our ass kicked, the media just portrayed it that way. We accomplished the goal that were started for in that misssion that day (capturing the enemy leaders), we took 18 casulties to the enemies estimated 300-600 depending on whose figures you use. It is only seen as a loss because the American public and media have become intolerant of us taking even slight casulties since Desert Storm. They are both in for a rude awakining when we fight our next war against a worthy opponent. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 9:59:50 AM EDT
[#34]
[b]Everyone knows that it is because 5.56, specifically ss109 is a completely ineffective round. You can shoot 90 lb somalis 15 times center mass and they will keep coming. Now if the military all had 1911's it would be a different story.[/b]
Ive read statistics too this is because of using 11" barrels. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 10:07:31 AM EDT
[#35]
[b]It is only seen as a loss because the American public and media have become intolerant of us taking even slight casualties since Desert Storm. They are both in for a rude awakening when we fight our next war against a worthy opponent.[/b]
I do agree here. we do get over excited about a loss of one soldier death does happen. we place way too much memorials and give out medal's for doing practically nothing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 10:13:26 AM EDT
[#36]
Let me start by saying I served in the Army. Unfortunately for us freedom or death types, there are far too many who would follow whatever orders they are given. Those who use the argument that troops would never disarm civilians or fire on them, Ruby Ridge and Waco refute that. It matters not whether they are "soldiers" or alphabet bureau types. Look at how miniscule the resistance has been to becoming a UN "peacekeeping force". That's unconstitutional and outside of one highly publicized case of a soldier refusing to wear wear the UN uniform and carry out those duties, where has the opposition to that been?
Not sure I could put a percentage on it, or if anyone esle could for that matter--of how many would refuse to do so. Some would, some wouldn't. All you and I can do as freedom or death types (if you are) is keep your faith in Creator (if you have any) and prepare for the eventuality of defending your life, liberty and guns. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 12:31:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Nice article on (avoiding) thermal imaging:
Infra Red Detection and the Sniper [url]www.snipercountry.com/IRSniper.html[/url] |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 12:44:28 PM EDT
[#38]
ckapsl
Your doing a selective reading of history. There are two things you aren't mentioning in ever case you cited. First they either win politically (i.e. guerrillas lost ever battle taking horrendous causalities {guess you can die your country}, and only won politically which would not work in the US since the media is against our side) and or formed into regular armies, ever hear of place called Diem Bien Phu, wasn't much Guerrilla action going on there or those tanks that the NVA, not VC since they where destroyed after Tet, drove into Saigon seemed pretty much like regulars to me. And second, all those forces where supported by outside nations. Without an outside nation, which ones will help the SHTF guerrilla the Canadians? The Mexicans?, the guerillas are hunted down and killed off. The control of the media is key. If you don't control the media, the freedom fighter you want to be will be portrayed as a terrorist and or a criminal. When you are eliminated no one would think anything about it. So unless you win the media war your war is lost. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 12:50:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: The control of the media is key. If you don't control the media, the freedom fighter you want to be will be portrayed as a terrorist and or a criminal. When you are eliminated no one would think anything about it. So unless you win the media war your war is lost. Amen!!! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 12:58:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: i watched the discovery channel Seal's are training for this.[/b] HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHA! no, wait... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What a friggin' load of BS! You *can't* really believe that!!?? I assure you, the 2,500 active duty SEALs have *way* better things to do than make you paranoid like that. The 3 military personnel at Waco were *support* personnel. Not everyone in the D is a shooter. SOCOM was completely opposed to even sending technical support people. Geez. -SARguy btw: TFR in Somalia was a success, NOT a failure. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 1:04:44 PM EDT
[#41]
As much as i hate to say this i think the Army at least would move against the public if given the order. When i was in the army the young kids coming in had no concept of what a legal or illegal order is. All they knew was if someone tells me to do it, i do it. I do think large numbers of career soldiers would leave.. ie.. ranking combat officers and NCO's. But junior grade officers and lower enlisted would not have a clue that they were doing anything wrong.
mike |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 1:31:43 PM EDT
[#42]
The arrogance display by military men on this topic is amazing. While I applaud their service for our country, I don't think they understand our resolve, nor history. Remember, every country that has gone up against a rebellion, has always thought it would be short, and the victory would be sweet and easy. Think of the British in the American Revolution, the North in the Southern Revolution, Americans in Vietnam, the Germans in the Warsaw, Russians if Afganistan and Chechnya, I could go on and on.
I don't think that a military vs. the people would win. Even with the media against us, we still could pull off a victory. Mind you, it will not be pretty, it will not short, it will not be bloodless. We will be fighting for liberty, and "we will not fight alone. Their is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave."(Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775.) We will be fighting a attrition war. We would fight until the press and the people could not take any more fighting. Remember, in the Revolution, we got the French on our side. Not because they wanted to help us, but because the wanted to hurt the british. I am sure we could find men and countries who would finance us and provide us with arms because of their hate for the US government. Not that I look forward to such an engagement. I pray it would never come. But one must be prepared. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 1:49:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Arrogance? All I have seen is a pointing out of facts. I understand the resolve, I come form the unique perspectuve of seeing things from both sides. An armed libertarian prepared to take up arms to defend his freedom and a soldier. I am just pointing out that it will not be as easy to take up arms against a professional army as some here seem to think it will be.
Face it... this battle you speak of will not happen. I have explained this already. If you still think it will, then do something about that. Take your buddies in the National Gaurd and Reserves out shooting. Drop some JPFO, GOA, and NRA literature off at the local NG armory. Take some time to talk with those you see in uniform.. not in a confrontational manner that you do here, but in a friendly fashion. I cannot think of any servicemembers I have ever met that were anti-gun, just those that were pro-gun and those that don't care one way or the other. Bring them over to our side. Take some of this time you spend preparing for a fight and head the fight off. I do it every week, what have you done this month? But when somebody turns on the computer and sees threats to go out and kill servicemembers family members, it doesn't do our side much good. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 1:54:59 PM EDT
[#44]
libertyof76
What amazes me is that many of the "SHTF" look at the history and bend it to something that suits them. They cite case after case of things that didn't happen. One of the original assertions was that guerillas normally defeat regular forces. That is simple not true. In the American revolution, it was the regular forces, with the assistance of the French that won, not the minuteman. They where a catalyst that allowed it to happen, but they lost just about every battle. Last time I looked the South lost, Warsaw ghetto was taken from the Jews, Grozny was taken from the Chechnans, The VC were destroyed at TET and the NVA took Saigon in a conventional action. To lose a battle means that you end up dead. If you want to go home in a body bag, you option. I found that most bravado is false, most that say they are willing to die for a cause, aren't in the end. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 2:11:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Well, I guess there's no use in pretending anymore...
STLRN, Myself, and a few of the others have been training with UN forces in Passaic, New Jersey for operation "Gun Grab". The bulk of these UN soldiers are Sudanese, Pakistani, French and Nigerian. Our Recon teams have been cleverly marking the back of high way signs with reflective tape, so that the UN personnel carriers know where to take all of the prisoners. The Canadians are in on it too. Actually the whole idea was their's anyway. We're going to cease all overseas operations, bring all the troops home, then redeploy them in support of the Pakistani and Nigerian divisions. You see, American gun owners have become the biggest threat to the security of the UN, and because we still haven't paid our UN dues, we have no choice, but to do their bidding. After all, there's nothing more awesomely frightening then bored, self-absorbed, paranoid gun owners. Please give up quietly. We don't want to have to unleash the Bangladeshi armour. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 2:36:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:libertyof76 What amazes me is that many of the "SHTF" look at the history and bend it to something that suits them. They cite case after case of things that didn't happen. One of the original assertions was that guerillas normally defeat regular forces. That is simple not true. In the American revolution, it was the regular forces, with the assistance of the French that won, not the minuteman. They where a catalyst that allowed it to happen, but they lost just about every battle. Last time I looked the South lost, Warsaw ghetto was taken from the Jews, Grozny was taken from the Chechnans, The VC were destroyed at TET and the NVA took Saigon in a conventional action. To lose a battle means that you end up dead. If you want to go home in a body bag, you option. I found that most bravado is false, most that say they are willing to die for a cause, aren't in the end. I never said that guerillas could defeat regulars. Remember, they goal is not to defeat regulars with guerillas, but to fight as a hit and run operation. It is a war of attrition. My point in bringing up those examples is that the aggressor always thought that the victory would be quick and easy. It wasn't. Yes the South lost, but that was not really a guerilla fight, but an army vs army.(and they didn't have any major countries backing them). The Jews in the Warsaw were going to die anyway, but they put up a fight. Russian is still fighting in Chechnya, and we pulled out of Vietnam. yes they did have a major country backing them, but who is to say we won't. As for questioning my resolve, you don't know me, so I don't think you can accurately question it(your wrong btw). And if I do die, at least I die fighting for liberty instead of a slave. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 2:41:24 PM EDT
[#47]
As an Army officer to answer the question:
No, I am sworn to protect the constitution and would not lift my finger against American citizens. People need to realize, though, that UN troopers from any nation are just that: Grunts. They are not the ones making the communist anti-gun and anti-freedom policies. So like I said before, the real enemy is the POLITICIANS, not the troops (though I agree, if foreign soldiers cross our borders with the blue beret I would SHOOT them, not HATE them). As a soldier used to standing at attention due to my maverick attitude, I repeat, I will not willingly take part in any scheme or operation to deprive Americans of any of their freedom. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 2:49:03 PM EDT
[#48]
>>More examples of irregular armed resistance to professional military forces that resulted in a final political victory:
The French in Indochina/Vietnam, 1954. The French in Algeria, in the '60s. The US in Vietnam in the '70s. The Ian Smith government in Rhodesia in the '70s. The Soviets in Afghanistan, in the '80s.<< Again, each of those instances relied on large amounts of support from major countries not directly involved. What foreign country is going to support the "I wanna keep my guns militia" in the U.S.?? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 2:52:22 PM EDT
[#49]
It is sounding more and more like the military personel here wants to kill militia just out of spite.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2001 3:02:35 PM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: It is sounding more and more like the military personel here wants to kill militia just out of spite. Actually, it's not spite. It's training. Remember back in the days of the Cold War, when we use to train against those green plastic dummies with the red stars, named "Ivan"? Then came the gulf, and with it our new enemy, "Muhammed" or just "rag head". Then it was the infamous "Somali Tacticals" we were up against. Well now the entire focus of the US military is on "Glen the Militiaman". All of the doctrine is being rewritten (that's really why we need the Osprey). |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
