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Posted: 9/26/2022 10:57:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you deny that delivering military operational plans and capabilities briefs to our enemies damages our National Security? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hope he gets taken out by a DJI mavic with a home made charge that gets dropped into his shorts while his taking a shit and the video is posted on youtube. i dont get all the hate for him. with all the whistles he was blowing. tell me the specific harm he has caused the US. no dont give me any shit about "methods" or whatever give me some specific info. Do you deny that delivering military operational plans and capabilities briefs to our enemies damages our National Security? Do you deny the intelligence community was and is violating the constitution? |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 10:59:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure he did. I don't think he is a good guy. I won't blame him singularly though, the government bears as much or more responsibility for this whole mess by spying on us in the first place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snowden did a good thing. Maybe he did it for the wrong reason, I don't know his motivation. The bigger part of the blame should lie with the government for abusing the American people and setting up something that needed to be exposed. Why more rage for Snowden then what the government was doing ? As far as going to Russia he didn't have much choice but to flee somewhere. I don't blame him for going to Russia but if he gave them information in exchange for being allowed to stay he is a piece of crap. Of course he gave Russia valuable information. Information that is being used to hurt US security. And, they will use Snowden to continue to undermine the US - namely the conservative movement which the Kremlin hates. I'm sure he did. I don't think he is a good guy. I won't blame him singularly though, the government bears as much or more responsibility for this whole mess by spying on us in the first place. Would YOU ever steal secrets and deliver them to Russia? There are no circumstances where I would. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:00:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the spirit of arfcom, get both. He broke major laws and whatnot doing what he did, but he brought to light a bunch of very shady government activities that the govt shouldnt have been doing in the first place. Unfortunately all that happened was the govt got some egg on its face, and he's looking at basically a death sentence in some dark hole of a federal prison. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So is Snowden still a good guy now or is he evil. I have seen many people argue over this dude being a hero or traitor. This should be good In the spirit of arfcom, get both. He broke major laws and whatnot doing what he did, but he brought to light a bunch of very shady government activities that the govt shouldnt have been doing in the first place. Unfortunately all that happened was the govt got some egg on its face, and he's looking at basically a death sentence in some dark hole of a federal prison. He compromised US security. Who knows how many lives have been lost already. If there is ever a major war with Russia and its allies millions of lives could be lost just due to information he gave them. Yes, he deserves a death sentence. NSA spying on US citizens without cause is and should be a crime. If the NSA was spying on any US citizen working with Russia or China (or the like) whose purpose was to destabilize the United States on behalf of a foriegn power, those US citizens are traitors and have no rights. It should never be legal to be a Marxist or communist in the US. Treason is not a right protected by the 1st Amendment. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:01:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you deny the intelligence community was and is violating the constitution? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hope he gets taken out by a DJI mavic with a home made charge that gets dropped into his shorts while his taking a shit and the video is posted on youtube. i dont get all the hate for him. with all the whistles he was blowing. tell me the specific harm he has caused the US. no dont give me any shit about "methods" or whatever give me some specific info. Do you deny that delivering military operational plans and capabilities briefs to our enemies damages our National Security? Do you deny the intelligence community was and is violating the constitution? Sure. What else is new? Is that a reason to steal secrets and deliver them to China and Russia and then defect to Russia? |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:01:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The guy who stole secrets, delivered them to China, and then defected to Russia is neither a spy nor a traitor? No shit? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:
He's going to have a nice life with his family. There won't be any tranny pedo librarians over there trying to groom his kids. He gave the Russians more actionable intelligence than the entire SVR. Oooh Russia found out about if Obama was going to spit or swallow Mike after he got back from playing golf on Martha's Vineyard? Hope the traitorous little prick ends up eating something explosive and fraggy in UKR. He'll die of old age surrounded by his grand children while deep staters here will wonder why their kids turned them in to the ATF after they didn't register their muzzle loaders. That’s quite a mancrush you have on the guy. Bet you’re a fan of the Rosenburgs, Alger Hiss, the Clintons, and Benedict Arnold too. Cope and seethe.  You liking spies and traitors doesn’t affect me at all, but it says a lot about you. The only spy here is the NSA and its brother agencies. And the only traitors here are those numb nuts who enable them. The guy who stole secrets, delivered them to China, and then defected to Russia is neither a spy nor a traitor? No shit? He’s both. Now what about the domestic spying. That’s an oath violation. Way way worse than spying. Who authorized the spying? |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:03:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure he did. I don't think he is a good guy. I won't blame him singularly though, the government bears as much or more responsibility for this whole mess by spying on us in the first place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snowden did a good thing. Maybe he did it for the wrong reason, I don't know his motivation. The bigger part of the blame should lie with the government for abusing the American people and setting up something that needed to be exposed. Why more rage for Snowden then what the government was doing ? As far as going to Russia he didn't have much choice but to flee somewhere. I don't blame him for going to Russia but if he gave them information in exchange for being allowed to stay he is a piece of crap. Of course he gave Russia valuable information. Information that is being used to hurt US security. And, they will use Snowden to continue to undermine the US - namely the conservative movement which the Kremlin hates. I'm sure he did. I don't think he is a good guy. I won't blame him singularly though, the government bears as much or more responsibility for this whole mess by spying on us in the first place. That may be. Regardless, Snowden undermined US security as a spy which puts 300 million plus people at risk. He deserves the death penalty for it. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:05:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He’s both. Now what about the domestic spying. That’s an oath violation. Way way worse than spying. Who authorized the spying? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:
He's going to have a nice life with his family. There won't be any tranny pedo librarians over there trying to groom his kids. He gave the Russians more actionable intelligence than the entire SVR. Oooh Russia found out about if Obama was going to spit or swallow Mike after he got back from playing golf on Martha's Vineyard? Hope the traitorous little prick ends up eating something explosive and fraggy in UKR. He'll die of old age surrounded by his grand children while deep staters here will wonder why their kids turned them in to the ATF after they didn't register their muzzle loaders. That’s quite a mancrush you have on the guy. Bet you’re a fan of the Rosenburgs, Alger Hiss, the Clintons, and Benedict Arnold too. Cope and seethe. You liking spies and traitors doesn’t affect me at all, but it says a lot about you. The only spy here is the NSA and its brother agencies. And the only traitors here are those numb nuts who enable them. The guy who stole secrets, delivered them to China, and then defected to Russia is neither a spy nor a traitor? No shit? He’s both. Now what about the domestic spying. That’s an oath violation. Way way worse than spying. Who authorized the spying? Who authorized the spying? I assume the FSB superiors of his Russian handler. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:06:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did he “report it”? Do the right thing. I wouldn’t COWER in Internet-fear that imaginary assassins are coming for me. It would never occur to me that stealing military plans and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia would somehow be a solution to the problem. That’s a coward’s solution. It’s not a solution. It’s just Treason Delivering military plans to China? Let’s see some proof of your dramatic claims. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:06:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did he “report it”? Do the right thing. I wouldn’t COWER in Internet-fear that imaginary assassins are coming for me. It would never occur to me that stealing military plans and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia would somehow be a solution to the problem. That’s a coward’s solution. It’s not a solution. It’s just Treason you keep using these words like "defecting to Russia" He didn't deliver anything to China, and he didn't defect to russia. he was trying to avoid capture by the Obama admin. The same admin that has been screwing over the country since 2008, and they pulled his passport stranding him there. you are just pimping their narrative. No matter what else you think about him, at least tell the truth. Cause what you are doing is not that. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:07:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Delivering military plans to China? Let’s see some proof of your dramatic claims. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did he “report it”? Do the right thing. I wouldn’t COWER in Internet-fear that imaginary assassins are coming for me. It would never occur to me that stealing military plans and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia would somehow be a solution to the problem. That’s a coward’s solution. It’s not a solution. It’s just Treason Delivering military plans to China? Let’s see some proof of your dramatic claims. lol |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:09:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you keep using these words like "defecting to Russia" He didn't deliver anything to China, and he didn't defect to russia. he was trying to avoid capture by the Obama admin. The same admin that has been screwing over the country since 2008, and they pulled his passport stranding him there. you are just pimping their narrative. No matter what else you think about him, at least tell the truth. Cause what you are doing is not that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did he “report it”? Do the right thing. I wouldn’t COWER in Internet-fear that imaginary assassins are coming for me. It would never occur to me that stealing military plans and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia would somehow be a solution to the problem. That’s a coward’s solution. It’s not a solution. It’s just Treason you keep using these words like "defecting to Russia" He didn't deliver anything to China, and he didn't defect to russia. he was trying to avoid capture by the Obama admin. The same admin that has been screwing over the country since 2008, and they pulled his passport stranding him there. you are just pimping their narrative. No matter what else you think about him, at least tell the truth. Cause what you are doing is not that. Let me ask you a question. What is your opinion of Putin? |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:10:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You missed that, huh? That explains it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually, we do. Unfortunately, stealing secrets and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia is not a part of that process. Gosh, we must have watched two different movies. Maybe I was taking a piss when he gave the "secrets" to china then "defected" to Russia. You missed that, huh? That explains it. I think most people did, including me. The media played up "THE GOVT IS SPYING ON YOU" angle, and anything else just got ignored and discarded. I remember seeing some power point slides that were TS/NOFORN marked, but thats it. Would you care to elaborate on the china/russia thing if you can? |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:11:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you keep using these words like "defecting to Russia" He didn't deliver anything to China, and he didn't defect to russia. he was trying to avoid capture by the Obama admin. The same admin that has been screwing over the country since 2008, and they pulled his passport stranding him there. you are just pimping their narrative. No matter what else you think about him, at least tell the truth. Cause what you are doing is not that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did he “report it”? Do the right thing. I wouldn’t COWER in Internet-fear that imaginary assassins are coming for me. It would never occur to me that stealing military plans and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia would somehow be a solution to the problem. That’s a coward’s solution. It’s not a solution. It’s just Treason you keep using these words like "defecting to Russia" He didn't deliver anything to China, and he didn't defect to russia. he was trying to avoid capture by the Obama admin. The same admin that has been screwing over the country since 2008, and they pulled his passport stranding him there. you are just pimping their narrative. No matter what else you think about him, at least tell the truth. Cause what you are doing is not that. He stole secrets, delivered them to China, and then defected to Russia. Yes. He WAS trying to a “avoid capture by the Obama admin” for stealing secrets and delivering them to China. He defected to Russia to avoid capture. Now he’s Russian |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:14:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think most people did, including me. The media played up "THE GOVT IS SPYING ON YOU" angle, and anything else just got ignored and discarded. I remember seeing some power point slides that were TS/NOFORN marked, but thats it. Would you care to elaborate on the china/russia thing if you can? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually, we do. Unfortunately, stealing secrets and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia is not a part of that process. Gosh, we must have watched two different movies. Maybe I was taking a piss when he gave the "secrets" to china then "defected" to Russia. You missed that, huh? That explains it. I think most people did, including me. The media played up "THE GOVT IS SPYING ON YOU" angle, and anything else just got ignored and discarded. I remember seeing some power point slides that were TS/NOFORN marked, but thats it. Would you care to elaborate on the china/russia thing if you can? Sure. He stole secrets and delivered them to China. Then he defected to Russia. Now he’s a Russian citizen. Seems fairly straightforward. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:18:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He stole secrets, delivered them to China, and then defected to Russia. Yes. He WAS trying to a “avoid capture by the Obama admin” for stealing secrets and delivering them to China. He defected to Russia to avoid capture. Now he’s Russian Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did he “report it”? Do the right thing. I wouldn’t COWER in Internet-fear that imaginary assassins are coming for me. It would never occur to me that stealing military plans and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia would somehow be a solution to the problem. That’s a coward’s solution. It’s not a solution. It’s just Treason you keep using these words like "defecting to Russia" He didn't deliver anything to China, and he didn't defect to russia. he was trying to avoid capture by the Obama admin. The same admin that has been screwing over the country since 2008, and they pulled his passport stranding him there. you are just pimping their narrative. No matter what else you think about him, at least tell the truth. Cause what you are doing is not that. He stole secrets, delivered them to China, and then defected to Russia. Yes. He WAS trying to a “avoid capture by the Obama admin” for stealing secrets and delivering them to China. He defected to Russia to avoid capture. Now he’s Russian I'll give you this, you got the government boot licking and the thread sliding down PAT. hope the shareblue checks are worth it. I don't give a shit, this is all a lie anyway. You don't know the truth any more than I do, but I watched that happen real time. He didnt' defect, he went into hiding to avoid a life in prison due to a corrupt admin. I'd do the same. So would you. I do know that team obama has done a LOT more damage to this country than Russia ever could. And you're playing right along with them. The NSA and the intel community is clearly corrupt. Yes, you're carrying water for them. I don't know if you're active payroll or just like the thumb the government has on Americans. But i do know the people you are aligning with are absolute shitbags. So there's that |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:19:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you keep using these words like "defecting to Russia" He didn't deliver anything to China, and he didn't defect to russia. he was trying to avoid capture by the Obama admin. The same admin that has been screwing over the country since 2008, and they pulled his passport stranding him there. you are just pimping their narrative. No matter what else you think about him, at least tell the truth. Cause what you are doing is not that. From what I gathered from the news is that Snowden delivered details to communist China and closet communist Russia about how the US intelligence divisions gather intelligence - that information is highly classified. That information undermines our ability to gather intelligence FOR OUR NATIONAL SECURITY. That is just some of the damage he did. He did not turn over Michelle Obama's recipie for apple pie. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:22:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well , he does need bodies for the war This was my first thought. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:23:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll give you this, you got the government boot licking and the thread sliding down PAT. hope the shareblue checks are worth it. I don't give a shit, this is all a lie anyway. You don't know the truth any more than I do, but I watched that happen real time. He didnt' defect, he went into hiding to avoid a life in prison due to a corrupt admin. I'd do the same. So would you. I do know that team obama has done a LOT more damage to this country than Russia ever could. And you're playing right along with them. The NSA and the intel community is clearly corrupt. Yes, you're carrying water for them. I don't know if you're active payroll or just like the thumb the government has on Americans. But i do know the people you are aligning with are absolute shitbags. So there's that Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did he “report it”? Do the right thing. I wouldn’t COWER in Internet-fear that imaginary assassins are coming for me. It would never occur to me that stealing military plans and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia would somehow be a solution to the problem. That’s a coward’s solution. It’s not a solution. It’s just Treason you keep using these words like "defecting to Russia" He didn't deliver anything to China, and he didn't defect to russia. he was trying to avoid capture by the Obama admin. The same admin that has been screwing over the country since 2008, and they pulled his passport stranding him there. you are just pimping their narrative. No matter what else you think about him, at least tell the truth. Cause what you are doing is not that. He stole secrets, delivered them to China, and then defected to Russia. Yes. He WAS trying to a “avoid capture by the Obama admin” for stealing secrets and delivering them to China. He defected to Russia to avoid capture. Now he’s Russian I'll give you this, you got the government boot licking and the thread sliding down PAT. hope the shareblue checks are worth it. I don't give a shit, this is all a lie anyway. You don't know the truth any more than I do, but I watched that happen real time. He didnt' defect, he went into hiding to avoid a life in prison due to a corrupt admin. I'd do the same. So would you. I do know that team obama has done a LOT more damage to this country than Russia ever could. And you're playing right along with them. The NSA and the intel community is clearly corrupt. Yes, you're carrying water for them. I don't know if you're active payroll or just like the thumb the government has on Americans. But i do know the people you are aligning with are absolute shitbags. So there's that Your response is unfortunate and is a reflection of your character. That character is further illuminated by your instinct to align yourself with traitors who steal secrets and deliver them to China and then defect to Russia. I don’t know if you’re on the payroll of Russia or just a useful idiot. But I do know the people you are aligning with are absolute shitbags. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:24:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would YOU ever steal secrets and deliver them to Russia? There are no circumstances where I would. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snowden did a good thing. Maybe he did it for the wrong reason, I don't know his motivation. The bigger part of the blame should lie with the government for abusing the American people and setting up something that needed to be exposed. Why more rage for Snowden then what the government was doing ? As far as going to Russia he didn't have much choice but to flee somewhere. I don't blame him for going to Russia but if he gave them information in exchange for being allowed to stay he is a piece of crap. Of course he gave Russia valuable information. Information that is being used to hurt US security. And, they will use Snowden to continue to undermine the US - namely the conservative movement which the Kremlin hates. I'm sure he did. I don't think he is a good guy. I won't blame him singularly though, the government bears as much or more responsibility for this whole mess by spying on us in the first place. Would YOU ever steal secrets and deliver them to Russia? There are no circumstances where I would. No I would not. In any circumstance. Hence why I said I don't think he is a good guy. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:26:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure. He stole secrets and delivered them to China. Then he defected to Russia. Now he’s a Russian citizen. Seems fairly straightforward. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually, we do. Unfortunately, stealing secrets and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia is not a part of that process. Gosh, we must have watched two different movies. Maybe I was taking a piss when he gave the "secrets" to china then "defected" to Russia. You missed that, huh? That explains it. I think most people did, including me. The media played up "THE GOVT IS SPYING ON YOU" angle, and anything else just got ignored and discarded. I remember seeing some power point slides that were TS/NOFORN marked, but thats it. Would you care to elaborate on the china/russia thing if you can? Sure. He stole secrets and delivered them to China. Then he defected to Russia. Now he’s a Russian citizen. Seems fairly straightforward. And I'm sure a ton of that stuff is still classified, hence why we havent heard anything about it. I think the rest of the class is asking for details instead of bullet points though. I had no idea he was talking to the Chinese. Like everyone else, I thought his passport was revoked while he was in Russia while in transit. Are you at liberty to discuss details or no? Not trying to be a dick, just seems like you know more. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:26:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No I would not. In any circumstance. Hence why I said I don't think he is a good guy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snowden did a good thing. Maybe he did it for the wrong reason, I don't know his motivation. The bigger part of the blame should lie with the government for abusing the American people and setting up something that needed to be exposed. Why more rage for Snowden then what the government was doing ? As far as going to Russia he didn't have much choice but to flee somewhere. I don't blame him for going to Russia but if he gave them information in exchange for being allowed to stay he is a piece of crap. Of course he gave Russia valuable information. Information that is being used to hurt US security. And, they will use Snowden to continue to undermine the US - namely the conservative movement which the Kremlin hates. I'm sure he did. I don't think he is a good guy. I won't blame him singularly though, the government bears as much or more responsibility for this whole mess by spying on us in the first place. Would YOU ever steal secrets and deliver them to Russia? There are no circumstances where I would. No I would not. In any circumstance. Hence why I said I don't think he is a good guy. I know that. But there are those here in this thread who would. That’s who they are. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:27:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would YOU ever steal secrets and deliver them to Russia? There are no circumstances where I would. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snowden did a good thing. Maybe he did it for the wrong reason, I don't know his motivation. The bigger part of the blame should lie with the government for abusing the American people and setting up something that needed to be exposed. Why more rage for Snowden then what the government was doing ? As far as going to Russia he didn't have much choice but to flee somewhere. I don't blame him for going to Russia but if he gave them information in exchange for being allowed to stay he is a piece of crap. Of course he gave Russia valuable information. Information that is being used to hurt US security. And, they will use Snowden to continue to undermine the US - namely the conservative movement which the Kremlin hates. I'm sure he did. I don't think he is a good guy. I won't blame him singularly though, the government bears as much or more responsibility for this whole mess by spying on us in the first place. Would YOU ever steal secrets and deliver them to Russia? There are no circumstances where I would. Do you mean that his mere act of releasing documents to the press, was "delivering them to Russia"? Because I've definitely seen people literally argue that the mere act of Snowden releasing the details of the NSA's Constitutional Violations to the public, entails "giving secrets to our enemies". |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:29:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And I'm sure a ton of that stuff is still classified, hence why we havent heard anything about it. I think the rest of the class is asking for details instead of bullet points though. I had no idea he was talking to the Chinese. Like everyone else, I thought his passport was revoked while he was in Russia while in transit. Are you at liberty to discuss details or no? Not trying to be a dick, just seems like you know more. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually, we do. Unfortunately, stealing secrets and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia is not a part of that process. Gosh, we must have watched two different movies. Maybe I was taking a piss when he gave the "secrets" to china then "defected" to Russia. You missed that, huh? That explains it. I think most people did, including me. The media played up "THE GOVT IS SPYING ON YOU" angle, and anything else just got ignored and discarded. I remember seeing some power point slides that were TS/NOFORN marked, but thats it. Would you care to elaborate on the china/russia thing if you can? Sure. He stole secrets and delivered them to China. Then he defected to Russia. Now he’s a Russian citizen. Seems fairly straightforward. And I'm sure a ton of that stuff is still classified, hence why we havent heard anything about it. I think the rest of the class is asking for details instead of bullet points though. I had no idea he was talking to the Chinese. Like everyone else, I thought his passport was revoked while he was in Russia while in transit. Are you at liberty to discuss details or no? Not trying to be a dick, just seems like you know more. In the past eight years, nothing has changed. Snowden’s actions were clear then and clear now. His Russian citizenship only proves this. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:29:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you say "Steal secrets and deliver them to Russia" Do you mean that his mere act of releasing documents to the press, was "delivering them to Russia"? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snowden did a good thing. Maybe he did it for the wrong reason, I don't know his motivation. The bigger part of the blame should lie with the government for abusing the American people and setting up something that needed to be exposed. Why more rage for Snowden then what the government was doing ? As far as going to Russia he didn't have much choice but to flee somewhere. I don't blame him for going to Russia but if he gave them information in exchange for being allowed to stay he is a piece of crap. Of course he gave Russia valuable information. Information that is being used to hurt US security. And, they will use Snowden to continue to undermine the US - namely the conservative movement which the Kremlin hates. I'm sure he did. I don't think he is a good guy. I won't blame him singularly though, the government bears as much or more responsibility for this whole mess by spying on us in the first place. Would YOU ever steal secrets and deliver them to Russia? There are no circumstances where I would. Do you mean that his mere act of releasing documents to the press, was "delivering them to Russia"? If you think that Putin let him stay in Russia for years and that Snowden never gave them anything you are being naive. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:29:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you say "Steal secrets and deliver them to Russia" Do you mean that his mere act of releasing documents to the press, was "delivering them to Russia"? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snowden did a good thing. Maybe he did it for the wrong reason, I don't know his motivation. The bigger part of the blame should lie with the government for abusing the American people and setting up something that needed to be exposed. Why more rage for Snowden then what the government was doing ? As far as going to Russia he didn't have much choice but to flee somewhere. I don't blame him for going to Russia but if he gave them information in exchange for being allowed to stay he is a piece of crap. Of course he gave Russia valuable information. Information that is being used to hurt US security. And, they will use Snowden to continue to undermine the US - namely the conservative movement which the Kremlin hates. I'm sure he did. I don't think he is a good guy. I won't blame him singularly though, the government bears as much or more responsibility for this whole mess by spying on us in the first place. Would YOU ever steal secrets and deliver them to Russia? There are no circumstances where I would. Do you mean that his mere act of releasing documents to the press, was "delivering them to Russia"? No. He traveled with hard drives. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:33:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you think that Putin let him stay in Russia for years and that Snowden never gave them anything you are being naive. What does it *REALLY* cost Russia to keep him there anyway? Using your *OWN WORLDVIEW*, its entirely possible that Russia tolerates him in Russia for no other reason than it makes them look good. Problem is, I don't judge actions as right or wrong on the basis of whether it helps Russia or not. If Joe Biden banned all firearms tomorrow, it would be to Russia's benefit if Americans resisted. Does that mean Americans should just hand them in? If I found incontrovertible proof that Joe Biden was a pedo, and I released that info... it would embarass the *FUCK* out of the American Establishment... and by extension.... helps Russia. Would you say it would be my patriotic duty to destroy such evidence, because "Muh Russia"? |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:33:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not enough for us to stop hiring Chinese and placing them in Los Alamos apparently. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do you deny that delivering military operational plans and capabilities briefs to our enemies damages our National Security? Not enough for us to stop hiring Chinese and placing them in Los Alamos apparently. 
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:34:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the past eight years, nothing has changed. Snowden’s actions were clear then and clear now. His Russian citizenship only proves this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually, we do. Unfortunately, stealing secrets and delivering them to China and then defecting to Russia is not a part of that process. Gosh, we must have watched two different movies. Maybe I was taking a piss when he gave the "secrets" to china then "defected" to Russia. You missed that, huh? That explains it. I think most people did, including me. The media played up "THE GOVT IS SPYING ON YOU" angle, and anything else just got ignored and discarded. I remember seeing some power point slides that were TS/NOFORN marked, but thats it. Would you care to elaborate on the china/russia thing if you can? Sure. He stole secrets and delivered them to China. Then he defected to Russia. Now he’s a Russian citizen. Seems fairly straightforward. And I'm sure a ton of that stuff is still classified, hence why we havent heard anything about it. I think the rest of the class is asking for details instead of bullet points though. I had no idea he was talking to the Chinese. Like everyone else, I thought his passport was revoked while he was in Russia while in transit. Are you at liberty to discuss details or no? Not trying to be a dick, just seems like you know more. In the past eight years, nothing has changed. Snowden’s actions were clear then and clear now. His Russian citizenship only proves this. Got it. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:34:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its *ENTIRELY* possible that Russia kept him around, because the information he was exposing about our government was damaging to the US Government... which by default helps the Russians… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you think that Putin let him stay in Russia for years and that Snowden never gave them anything you are being naive. Yes. That’s true. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:37:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. That's true. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you think that Putin let him stay in Russia for years and that Snowden never gave them anything you are being naive. Yes. That's true. Is it your opinion, that it is treason to release information that embarrasses the US Government? That it is your patriotic duty, to cover up the evil misdeeds of your own government, simply because to do otherwise would merely help the enemy? |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:39:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The shutdown email monitoring program explicitly did not look at American's email. Only overseas stuff. The program that Snowden "exposed" didn't exist and was made up. The foreign only email monitoring program was the one that was shut down. Folks also forget the Gigabytes of US intel info that Snowden stole. The folks at the facility where he worked were pissed about the stolen info, and didn't care about the "whistle blowing" because he made that program up. Source material: the government. "Of course we weren't spying on you, we'd never do that" |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:40:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damaging in the sense of credibility as the stalwart defender of Freedom. Is it your opinion, that it is treason to release information that embarrasses the US Government? That it is your patriotic duty, to cover up the evil misdeeds of your own government, simply because to do otherwise would merely help the enemy? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you think that Putin let him stay in Russia for years and that Snowden never gave them anything you are being naive. Yes. That's true. Is it your opinion, that it is treason to release information that embarrasses the US Government? That it is your patriotic duty, to cover up the evil misdeeds of your own government, simply because to do otherwise would merely help the enemy? You have a shabby understanding of the Constitutionally defined concept of “Treason.” That’s a shame. Read it more often. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:43:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have a shabby understanding of the Constitutionally defined concept of "Treason." That's a shame. Read it more often. "Giving them aid and comfort". Define what that means. If the US Government decided to confiscate all our guns, and decided to start rounding up Trump supporters for execution... and I protested it.... that "Helps" our enemy in a sense... does it not? Certainly our enemies would use any protests that occur against the US Government, any instability...as a "propaganda win". By certain interpretations of the Constitution... any and all actions that embarass or paint the US Government in a bad light, to the benefit of our enemies... is treason. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:45:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So in your opinion... if I found documents of Joe Biden doing horrendous things to his own people, And I exposed it... I'm a traitor because it might help our enemy in some way? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You have a shabby understanding of the Constitutionally defined concept of "Treason." That's a shame. Read it more often. Crappy arguments always begin with “So…” No. That’s not my opinion. That’s just ANOTHER example of your shabby understanding of the Constitutionally defined concept of "Treason." Why have you not read our Constitution? |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:50:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Crappy arguments always begin with "So " No. That's not my opinion. That's just ANOTHER example of your shabby understanding of the Constitutionally defined concept of "Treason." Why have you not read our Constitution? "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. " I dont know how ... creative... you're being with this provision. Simply saying "Our government is Tyrannical" could be construed by some nutjobs... as "Treason" because making a statement like that serves as a "propaganda win" for the Russians. Thus it constitutes "Giving Aid and Comfort". In fact, the Alien and Sedition acts used such a liberal interpretation of that provision... to justify essentially outlawing any criticism of the US Government. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:52:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. " I dont know how ... creative... you're being with this provision. Simply saying "Our government is Tyrannical" could be construed by some nutjobs... as "Treason" because making a statement like that serves as a "propaganda win" for the Russians. Thus it constitutes "Giving Aid and Comfort". In fact, the Alien and Sedition acts used such a liberal interpretation of that provision... to essentially outlaw any criticism of the US Government. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Crappy arguments always begin with "So " No. That's not my opinion. That's just ANOTHER example of your shabby understanding of the Constitutionally defined concept of "Treason." Why have you not read our Constitution? "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. " I dont know how ... creative... you're being with this provision. Simply saying "Our government is Tyrannical" could be construed by some nutjobs... as "Treason" because making a statement like that serves as a "propaganda win" for the Russians. Thus it constitutes "Giving Aid and Comfort". In fact, the Alien and Sedition acts used such a liberal interpretation of that provision... to essentially outlaw any criticism of the US Government. Are you projecting? Seems like it. Only YOU and the far Left are making this argument. Your attempt to ascribe it to me is dishonest and shabby. Par for you. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:52:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure. What else is new? Is that a reason to steal secrets and deliver them to China and Russia and then defect to Russia? No |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:54:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you projecting? Seems like it. Only YOU and the far Left make this argument. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Crappy arguments always begin with "So " No. That's not my opinion. That's just ANOTHER example of your shabby understanding of the Constitutionally defined concept of "Treason." Why have you not read our Constitution? "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. " I dont know how ... creative... you're being with this provision. Simply saying "Our government is Tyrannical" could be construed by some nutjobs... as "Treason" because making a statement like that serves as a "propaganda win" for the Russians. Thus it constitutes "Giving Aid and Comfort". In fact, the Alien and Sedition acts used such a liberal interpretation of that provision... to essentially outlaw any criticism of the US Government. Are you projecting? Seems like it. Only YOU and the far Left make this argument. If your interpretation of "Giving aid and comfort" includes "embarassing the US Government"... then I really *REALLY* don't give a FUCK who you think is a Traitor. It certainly is not my definition of being a traitor. It is the duty of all Americans to expose wrongdoing of our government, even if it "helps our enemy". We *ALWAYS* seem to have an enemy... and anytime you embarass your government or expose some wrongdoing... it "helps" our enemy. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done anyway. If we can't expose the dark evil secrets of our own government, and allow our government to have zero accountability... that power will corrupt. Eventually, we'd become indistinguishable from all the world's "Enemies of Freedom". My interpretation of "Giving aid and comfort" is incredibly narrow. Exposing wrongdoing by our government does not count. Handing over information *DIRECTLY* to Russia or China is. But if you're arguing that the mere act of letting Americans know they're being spied on, is "Treason"... no... I disagree. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:56:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you deny the intelligence community was and is violating the constitution? It's okay. It's the government. They're allowed to do whatever they want. I'm sure a lot of arfcommers are totally cool with 30 FBI agents kicking in some guy's door and hauling him off to prison for the evil act of protesting in front of an abortion clinic, after the state court already threw the case out. They're cool with the kangaroo trials going on in DC and holding people without trial in prison for years for the atrocious act of tresspassing. They're cool with all of the illegal spying on the President and disseminating complete bullshit to the press to hurt that President's administration, while covering up the mass crimes of his political opponent and now current "President". The government is good. Always good. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:58:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's okay. It's the government. They're allowed to do whatever they want. I'm sure a lot of arfcommers are totally cool with 30 FBI agents kicking in some guy's door and hauling him off to prison for the evil act of protesting in front of an abortion clinic, after the state court already threw the case out. They're cool with the kangaroo trials going on in DC and holding people without trial in prison for years for the atrocious act of tresspassing. They're cool with all of the illegal spying on the President and disseminating complete bullshit to the press to hurt that President's administration, while covering up the mass crimes of his political opponent and now current "President". The government is good. Always good. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do you deny the intelligence community was and is violating the constitution? It's okay. It's the government. They're allowed to do whatever they want. I'm sure a lot of arfcommers are totally cool with 30 FBI agents kicking in some guy's door and hauling him off to prison for the evil act of protesting in front of an abortion clinic, after the state court already threw the case out. They're cool with the kangaroo trials going on in DC and holding people without trial in prison for years for the atrocious act of tresspassing. They're cool with all of the illegal spying on the President and disseminating complete bullshit to the press to hurt that President's administration, while covering up the mass crimes of his political opponent and now current "President". The government is good. Always good. The sowing of mistrust of our government and institutions, aids and comforts Russia... so you're a traitor. 
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:59:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Im asking you, if *THATS* your interpretation of "Giving aid and comfort". If your interpretation of "Giving aid and comfort" includes "embarassing the US Government"... then I really *REALLY* don't give a FUCK who you think is a Traitor. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Crappy arguments always begin with "So " No. That's not my opinion. That's just ANOTHER example of your shabby understanding of the Constitutionally defined concept of "Treason." Why have you not read our Constitution? "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. " I dont know how ... creative... you're being with this provision. Simply saying "Our government is Tyrannical" could be construed by some nutjobs... as "Treason" because making a statement like that serves as a "propaganda win" for the Russians. Thus it constitutes "Giving Aid and Comfort". In fact, the Alien and Sedition acts used such a liberal interpretation of that provision... to essentially outlaw any criticism of the US Government. Are you projecting? Seems like it. Only YOU and the far Left make this argument. If your interpretation of "Giving aid and comfort" includes "embarassing the US Government"... then I really *REALLY* don't give a FUCK who you think is a Traitor. Why are you trying so hard? I’m embarrassed FOR you. My argument is easy in this discussion of traitors and treason. Snowden stole military plans and secrets and delivered them to China and Russia. He then defected to Russia. If you would like to make a case against THAT being “Treason,” your best bet is to claim that we are not technically at war with either of them. THAT would be a good argument. An argument that focuses on the Constitution. Your current argument sucks ass. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 12:05:21 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are you trying so hard? I'm embarrassed FOR you. My argument is easy in this discussion of traitors and treason. Snowden stole military plans and secrets and delivered them to China and Russia. He then defected to Russia. If you would like to make a case against THAT being "Treason," your best bet is to claim that we are not technically at war with either of them. THAT would be a good argument. An argument that focuses on the Constitution. Your current argument sucks ass. Are you saying that by Edward Snowden letting us know we're being spied on... counts as "handing information to the Russians". *OR* Are you saying that in addition to his Whistleblowing (Or alternatively pretending to whistleblow but making stuff up)... Edward Snowden also provided intel to the Russians, by physically handing them intel, directly? Im trying to see if you're using weasel words, and trying to argue that the mere act of Whistleblowing is what you mean by "handing information to the Russians" because, obviously any information he exposes to the public would obviously be available to the Russians. That is not the same as physically handing over intel to the Russians. I would not consider that "Treason". FWIW, Why should I believe the government? Our government lies to us on a daily fucking basis. The FBI just got caught literally engaging in bank robbery... and we should trust them? |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 12:06:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  He's a patriot!A Russian patriot.  |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 12:08:09 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Answer this: Are you saying that by Edward Snowden letting us know we're being spied on... counts as "handing information to the Russians". *OR* Are you saying that in addition to his Whistleblowing... Edward Snowden also provided intel to the Russians, by physically handing them intel, directly? Im trying to see if you're using weasel words, and trying to argue that the mere act of Whistleblowing is what you mean by "handing information to the Russians" because, obviously any information he exposes to the public would obviously be available to the Russians. That is not the same as physically handing over intel to the Russians. FWIW, Why should I believe the government? Our government lies to us on a daily fucking basis. The FBI just got caught literally engaging in bank robbery... and we should trust them? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why are you trying so hard? I'm embarrassed FOR you. My argument is easy in this discussion of traitors and treason. Snowden stole military plans and secrets and delivered them to China and Russia. He then defected to Russia. If you would like to make a case against THAT being "Treason," your best bet is to claim that we are not technically at war with either of them. THAT would be a good argument. An argument that focuses on the Constitution. Your current argument sucks ass. Are you saying that by Edward Snowden letting us know we're being spied on... counts as "handing information to the Russians". *OR* Are you saying that in addition to his Whistleblowing... Edward Snowden also provided intel to the Russians, by physically handing them intel, directly? Im trying to see if you're using weasel words, and trying to argue that the mere act of Whistleblowing is what you mean by "handing information to the Russians" because, obviously any information he exposes to the public would obviously be available to the Russians. That is not the same as physically handing over intel to the Russians. FWIW, Why should I believe the government? Our government lies to us on a daily fucking basis. The FBI just got caught literally engaging in bank robbery... and we should trust them? I said exactly what I said, and not your lame attempt to mischaracterize what I said. This should be easy, as I speak in a very deliberate and straightforward manner. If you wish to understand what I said, read my words -not yours. Your painful attempt to create a straw man is embarrassing. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 12:21:52 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I said exactly what I said, and not your lame attempt to mischaracterize what I said. This should be easy, as I speak in a very deliberate and straightforward manner. If you wish to understand what I said, read my words -not yours. Your painful attempt to create a straw man is embarrassing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why are you trying so hard? I'm embarrassed FOR you. My argument is easy in this discussion of traitors and treason. Snowden stole military plans and secrets and delivered them to China and Russia. He then defected to Russia. If you would like to make a case against THAT being "Treason," your best bet is to claim that we are not technically at war with either of them. THAT would be a good argument. An argument that focuses on the Constitution. Your current argument sucks ass. Are you saying that by Edward Snowden letting us know we're being spied on... counts as "handing information to the Russians". *OR* Are you saying that in addition to his Whistleblowing... Edward Snowden also provided intel to the Russians, by physically handing them intel, directly? Im trying to see if you're using weasel words, and trying to argue that the mere act of Whistleblowing is what you mean by "handing information to the Russians" because, obviously any information he exposes to the public would obviously be available to the Russians. That is not the same as physically handing over intel to the Russians. FWIW, Why should I believe the government? Our government lies to us on a daily fucking basis. The FBI just got caught literally engaging in bank robbery... and we should trust them? I said exactly what I said, and not your lame attempt to mischaracterize what I said. This should be easy, as I speak in a very deliberate and straightforward manner. If you wish to understand what I said, read my words -not yours. Your painful attempt to create a straw man is embarrassing. But thats a big IF. I have zero trust in anything our government tells us. As I stated before, the mere fact that Edward Snowden is being tolerated by Russia is not proof in itself of anything. Edward Snowden, being a Whistleblower, and being welcomed into Russia with open arms is a propaganda win all of its own. It is to Russia's benefit to not extradite him. Him staying in Russia, does not make him a "Traitor". Him releasing information to the public, to expose wrongdoing by our government... does not constitute "Treason". It would only be Treason, IMHO, if he provided information to the Russians intentionally and directly and with the purpose to inform the Russians... that it counts as Treason. If you provide information that hurts our government's credibility, as part of whistleblowing... and it incidentally "Helps Russia",... I don't count that as Treason. IMHO, it needs to be intentional, purposeful, and direct. That being said, any government claims that Snowden provided information directly to the Russians (And not merely incidental as part of the whistleblowing) are suspect. I dont *TRUST* the government. Why should I? They lie to us all the fucking time. The government told black people in Tuskeegee that they were getting treated for Syphilis. Our government intentionally gave its own citizens, high doses of radiation... just to watch people die from radiation poisoning. FBI goaded two terrorists from Phoenix, into attacking the Curtis Culwell Center... "Tear up Texas", and did *NOTHING* to warn the local Police for reasons unknown. Heck, recently FBI Agents got caught robbing a bank. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 12:23:49 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I said exactly what I said, and not your lame attempt to mischaracterize what I said. This should be easy, as I speak in a very deliberate and straightforward manner. If you wish to understand what I said, read my words -not yours. Your painful attempt to create a straw man is embarrassing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why are you trying so hard? I'm embarrassed FOR you. My argument is easy in this discussion of traitors and treason. Snowden stole military plans and secrets and delivered them to China and Russia. He then defected to Russia. If you would like to make a case against THAT being "Treason," your best bet is to claim that we are not technically at war with either of them. THAT would be a good argument. An argument that focuses on the Constitution. Your current argument sucks ass. Are you saying that by Edward Snowden letting us know we're being spied on... counts as "handing information to the Russians". *OR* Are you saying that in addition to his Whistleblowing... Edward Snowden also provided intel to the Russians, by physically handing them intel, directly? Im trying to see if you're using weasel words, and trying to argue that the mere act of Whistleblowing is what you mean by "handing information to the Russians" because, obviously any information he exposes to the public would obviously be available to the Russians. That is not the same as physically handing over intel to the Russians. FWIW, Why should I believe the government? Our government lies to us on a daily fucking basis. The FBI just got caught literally engaging in bank robbery... and we should trust them? I said exactly what I said, and not your lame attempt to mischaracterize what I said. This should be easy, as I speak in a very deliberate and straightforward manner. If you wish to understand what I said, read my words -not yours. Your painful attempt to create a straw man is embarrassing. It's less embarrassing than your obvious attempts to avoid directly answering his legitimate questions as he attempts to narrow down and better define what you consider to be "giving secrets to our enemies" and your actual objections to Snowden. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 12:26:11 AM EDT
[#47]
I'm OK with that, as long as they now draft that new "patriot" Russian citizen to go fight in the Ukraine. F that guy.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 12:27:34 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OK Fine. If you're saying that Edward Snowden, DIRECTLY provided classified information to Russia/China... and *IF* its True... sure, he's a Traitor. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why are you trying so hard? I'm embarrassed FOR you. My argument is easy in this discussion of traitors and treason. Snowden stole military plans and secrets and delivered them to China and Russia. He then defected to Russia. If you would like to make a case against THAT being "Treason," your best bet is to claim that we are not technically at war with either of them. THAT would be a good argument. An argument that focuses on the Constitution. Your current argument sucks ass. Are you saying that by Edward Snowden letting us know we're being spied on... counts as "handing information to the Russians". *OR* Are you saying that in addition to his Whistleblowing... Edward Snowden also provided intel to the Russians, by physically handing them intel, directly? Im trying to see if you're using weasel words, and trying to argue that the mere act of Whistleblowing is what you mean by "handing information to the Russians" because, obviously any information he exposes to the public would obviously be available to the Russians. That is not the same as physically handing over intel to the Russians. FWIW, Why should I believe the government? Our government lies to us on a daily fucking basis. The FBI just got caught literally engaging in bank robbery... and we should trust them? I said exactly what I said, and not your lame attempt to mischaracterize what I said. This should be easy, as I speak in a very deliberate and straightforward manner. If you wish to understand what I said, read my words -not yours. Your painful attempt to create a straw man is embarrassing. There it is. Glad you finally get it. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 12:28:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's less embarrassing than your obvious attempts to avoid directly answering his legitimate questions as he attempts to narrow down and better define what you consider to be "giving secrets to our enemies" and your actual objections to Snowden. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why are you trying so hard? I'm embarrassed FOR you. My argument is easy in this discussion of traitors and treason. Snowden stole military plans and secrets and delivered them to China and Russia. He then defected to Russia. If you would like to make a case against THAT being "Treason," your best bet is to claim that we are not technically at war with either of them. THAT would be a good argument. An argument that focuses on the Constitution. Your current argument sucks ass. Are you saying that by Edward Snowden letting us know we're being spied on... counts as "handing information to the Russians". *OR* Are you saying that in addition to his Whistleblowing... Edward Snowden also provided intel to the Russians, by physically handing them intel, directly? Im trying to see if you're using weasel words, and trying to argue that the mere act of Whistleblowing is what you mean by "handing information to the Russians" because, obviously any information he exposes to the public would obviously be available to the Russians. That is not the same as physically handing over intel to the Russians. FWIW, Why should I believe the government? Our government lies to us on a daily fucking basis. The FBI just got caught literally engaging in bank robbery... and we should trust them? I said exactly what I said, and not your lame attempt to mischaracterize what I said. This should be easy, as I speak in a very deliberate and straightforward manner. If you wish to understand what I said, read my words -not yours. Your painful attempt to create a straw man is embarrassing. It's less embarrassing than your obvious attempts to avoid directly answering his legitimate questions as he attempts to narrow down and better define what you consider to be "giving secrets to our enemies" and your actual objections to Snowden. Sure thing, comrade. lol |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 12:29:36 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There it is. Glad you finally get it. Which is why I was wanting clarification. FWIW, I don't trust the government. They've lied about a lot worse things than whether or not a whistleblower directly provided state secrets to the enemy . |
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