>>Whether or not you are a US soldier, if you go under the command of the UN then you are a TRAITOR.....take that any way you want....no disrespect to your friends/relatives ect....but the truth is the truth.<<
Just a slight correction--that is not the truth.  It is your opinion on what you think things should be.  The truth is that the government and the courts have decided otherwise.  You may not like it, but THAT is the truth.

>>Michael New, a young US enlisted hero, REFUSED to don the UN Insignia on his uniform and go under the command of a Finnish U.N. commander-STATING HE TOOK AN OATH TO THE U.S., WHICH COULD NOT BE OVERRUN BY THE U.N.! He was convicted in a court martial of OBEYING the OATH! He stood his ground and was court martialed even though he OBEYED his OATH!<<
LOL!!  Interesting how you choose to berate Pvt. James, but then provide the proof that he is right and you are wrong.  New (anything but a hero, BTW) took the same position you do, and was convicted.  The courts upheld that conviction.  

this is a weird thread - i really don't understand why the u.s. is so anti -u.n.  people rant and rave about the money, blah blah.  we used to be very pro-u.n. in the late 40's up to the early 60's.  since vietnam the u.n. seems to have become the punching bag for frustrated americans.  the u.n. does not pose a threat to the u.s.  joint national exercises does not mean there is a new world order on our door strp!  how ignorant can one be?  we've had bases all over the world - and there is a german tank unit in new mexico? a german airforce unit in virginia?  SO WHAT!  we've been trampeling german turnips and streaking across german air space for 50+ years!!

being anti u.n. to me only prepetuates the insular and 'ugly american' bias that our friends have of us overseas.  

keld's deployment in a 4th world crap hole to keep uneducated village idiots from slaughtering each other is bad how? oh so we should stand to the side whilst people slaughter each other?  i think there needs to be more disarmament of these 3rd and 4th world crap holes - OR give everyone a gun and a fighting chance.  

47 have ever been to europe?  have you ever travelled abroad?

in my interpretation the u.n. in european eyes is somewhat like a guy from a fictional 'washington state military' on deployment with a guy from a 'new york state military ' what's the big deal? - international co-operation is a crime?.  lest we forget desert storm had full backing from the u.n. - does that make us all blue beret wearing jackbooted thugs?

dude - colon cancer is more of a threat to you than the u.n.!!!

47 travel a little, and stop worrying about the 'blue berets'.  eat five servings of vegetables a day and drink at least 1.5 litre of fresh water, moderate exercise and stay away from heavy greases.  

steve

Steve M, darm441, and others who sympathize with the UN....

Where have you been? Do you realize that the UN is sponsering this upcomming bon-fire to burn guns!? Doesen't matter if they burn puney little relvolvers or hi-tech rifles that we enjoy (for now), [red][size=4]it's the intent that counts![/red][/size=4]

Who have the liberals gone to for their agenda? Certainly not our pro-gun leaders.  They have to circumvent that and go to the "world leaders" who naturaly want us disarmed, just like they disarm their citizens.  You people are hypocrites and fools to defend the UN.

You want your sovern right to own a gun and not be told what to do, but you support a Foreign government to do that to others. You dont think that will work against you?

You people are the same as the fool who though he could tame the tiger, so that it wouldent bite, by feeding it red meat.  

Let's put this in perspective...he sleeps with his rifle people!

Bradd

47 suggested you visit the links provided and
read up before you comment.
Educate yourself on the UN, then read what you have posted, you will have a lot of editing to do.

What? Are you gay as well as uninformed?

Aren't they sponsering a bon-fire to burn guns very soon?  I guess we can just forget about what they want to do huh?  No threat there, Doesen't matter...




I was a soldier once.  A person who is capable of the same thing that I am is a threat, yes, but what really makes me feel unsafe is that no one feels threatened by the potential power of the UN.  
I'm glad I got out of the military and wised up.

Hey Boland, you aren't related to a Ssgt Boland who was posted at Ft Stewart(1/41 FA) around 1991, are you?

Why are they starving and sick?

FACTOID: The UN has proposed that no civilian
population be allowed to have guns of any kind.
They are meeting in NY this summer on this very
subject. The UN and supportive groups and individuals give money to Amerikan anti-gun groups.

Read the provided links and then answer your
question. "Do you feel safe"?

And your point is?
Could this possibly have been a joke? A little
humor maybe. It has been stated on this website
that Freud believed people who are afraid of
guns are sexually immature. Are you afraid to
sleep with a gun. I keep one under my pillow.

Either you serve the U.S., or you serve the U.N.  You can't have it both ways.  Each individual must make his own choice as to where his/her loyalties lie.  Personally, I think the U.N. is not fit to be trusted or served.  If you choose to serve them, then you ARE against us/me.  Nuff said.

                  [sniper]


Life(and death) really is that simple when you get down to it.

Lighten up...it was a joke!  Personally, I prefer sleeping with a woman.

Bradd

I s'pose there was a Native American saying the same things when the "White Man" came.  It's ironic how history repeats itself.

Bradd

PLEASE VISIT THE LINKS PROVIDED BY 47.

The above is one massive pile of BRAINSHIT! I
do however hold out hope for you as in your pile
of BRAINSHIT there is a seed that is the solution " or give everyone a gun and a fighting chance". A Universal RKBA and while we are at it give them the whole Constitution. Imagine a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT under the US
Constution.
The above has recently been shown to be not
true.
Read up on UN Agenda 21 at one of the provided
links. Be careful you might shit yourself.
Turn on FOXNEWS and you can see "Who Really
Owns America" its on right now.

I suggest that you watch "Vanishing Freedom 2, Who owns America" on Fox News today. Pay attention to the segement on Agenda 21, the UN agreement on Sustainable Development.

The discussion of last resort options are rediculous. If Blue Helmets really do walk our streets; it's because our citizenery/(subjects) have become the walking dead. We need to spend some of that range time perhaps backing pro-gun groups, canidates or "politicians." Boy I feel dirty typing that!

What is wrong with 47 having an aggressive attitude.  Should we NOT have an aggressive attitude when it comes to our Freedoms and sovereignty as a nation.  Look where anything BUT an aggressive attitude has gotten us in the last 50 years.  

I think that there are far too many PASSIVE attitudes out there.  Those of you with a passive attitude about your freedoms can continue to vote, if you think that will do any good.  The ballot box is near useless, and the soapbox is closely following.  The cartidge box is next on the list.

I don't think the U.N will be over here confiscating our guns anyime soon, but that doesn't make them any less of a threat.  Our own government is doing well enough of a job taking away our rights as they can without downright confiscation.  They may be wrong, but they aren't stupid.  We should deal with immediate threats on own own turf first.  But in dealing with these immediate threats, we DO run the risk of attracting the attention of the U.N.  So be it.

I agree with you 47, and Imbroglio.  

SOL

Son of Liberty--

It's fine to have an aggressive attitude.  But I would rather see a resolute and determined person.  

My original point was that 47 was copping an attitude with Keld and possibly Kuiper, and these two are not the people we need to worry about.  People with the names "Feinstein" and "Schumer" and "Boxer" and "Clinton" are.  Year after year, these people are elected to office with a sizable portion of the vote.  

If you want to spend your resources castigating people who have very similar views to your own, then please do!  Once we have succeeded in alienating ourselves from mainstream America, once we have marginalized ourselves as a bunch of antisocial loonies, then Schumer et al.  will have had the last laugh.

Based on the number of illegal immigrants in NC, I'd say the invasion has been underway for quite some time.  I just went up to Virginia for the weekend and realized that I saw no Mexicans at all there.  I'm not racist, but make no mistake--this is an invasion and the authorities are doing nothing about it because it furthers their cause.

As far as 47's rantings, who here genuinely trusts the UN?  I don't.  They are an un-elected body and I think people's concerns are warranted.  Whenever we hear about world government, they never talk about the rest of the world rising to our standards.  Far from it!  It's a major power grab and America is directly in their sights.  I doubt there will ever be blue-helmeted troops to shoot at, but the propaganda campaign against private firearms ownership is in full swing.  

Kuiper, I like you and your posts, but haven't you neglected to mention the fact that both you and your guns are registered?  Plus, isn't it true that when you move (change residence) you have to inform the police?

Doesn't sound like any kind of freedom I recognize.  Just owning guns means very little when you consider that every aspect of your life is somehow regulated by the government. That's what we Americans are upset about, we don't want this unnecessary and counterproductive meddling that is taking place now.

Korea was a UN mandated war and US troops were under the command of the UN. (Maybe that is why it went so badly)
More power to 47 to be a man who can take out targets at 300 meters. Hopefully hearing of such people will cool the politicians and generals who want to delete the 2nd Ammendment.

One last post on this one....

Since I have never met a UN "Peacekeeper" face to face, I originally posted the thread thinking I would catch Keld on-line and get some kind of response from him.....yes I wrote it to fire him and other left-wingers up and see what kind of a response I would get.

I also thought that those of you that are of the opinion that the UN is your friend, might just read into the links that were provided and learn a thing or two from it.

Unfortunatley it seems that only those of us that are educated on the matter have seen the massive amount of FACTUAL info on the U.N. on these web sites. The John Birch Society and the Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership are some of the best links to such info. Some people follow like sheep, not because they want to, but because they know no better. We are all ignorant in some facet of life and it was my genuine hope that ruffling a few feathers might make some of you actually seek the facts, then post....but whatever.

Thanks to:
Imbroglio
HANGFIRE
Boom Stick
Son of Liberty
Frank Squid
Fallschirmjaeger
Trickshot
and the rest that held the perimiter on this one.

The U.N. is NOT your Friend!

www.jpfo.org  and  www.jbs.org

47

well i did visit the links (most) provided - keld's i did not have to as i have been there before (anyone like my desert storm m16 camo covers?)  the birch one - soon as it came up i have to be honest i groaned.  the jewish one i paid better attention to but saw no links to any "u.n. master plan".

so what if kuiper has to register his guns and let the cops know what is going on?  and i am sure he needs to prove he can shoot them too?  i think a firearms license (and a parenting licence - but this is for another thread) makes sense at times.  there just some people who should not own a firearm (and some who should not breed!)  is the u.n. a kuiper's door?  are blue berrets ferreting through his wheaties?  i got a buddy in holland who is 'oppressed' and has an ar15 with evil features (new) a glock 17 with hi cap mags and other stuff that is illegal in our 'free country'.

i am sure 47 is a man with strong convictions and really truley belives in them.  i have to say this paranoia is a u.s. phenomina.  people are not like this in other countries.  in some countries like japan where private ownership is very restricted - there are no blue berrets there - there are no concentration camps - no black helicopters - no contrails - and funny enough no art bell!

i think the u.n. is an organization that quite accurately reflects the world as a whole as barely getting along, beaurocratic, too many people thunping their respective 'bibles' and so on and so forth.  no evil present - only the same amount as in our own government.

to single out keld as 'bad' is flat out stupid and to point fingers at our international friends on this board (who make it very interesting and enjoyable) is moronic.

47 - lock up your gun.  go to a club med.  learn to sing in french.  dance to european techno music with beautiful foreign women.  do the sun dance, have fun, who knows you might get lucky?  life is too short.

steve

ps to falshrimj - the korean war went badly because truman was an idiot and did not let general mac. wage war - the un had nothing to do with it.  

The UN has one objective: Global, atheistic,tyrannical government.  They can go to Hell!   Right on 47!

It is later than you think..........

Imbrog - It does get tiring after years and years of preaching. I had hoped that those on ar15.com were well read, and knew what was happening. Keep up the post, maybe after a while the information will sink in.

To the young enlistee. Go to the history books, and find out the excuses and reasoning that those at the nuremburg trials used. You will find that your whine is very similiar to theirs.

To 47 don't give up, there are those of us out here that know full well what is happening, and the history behind it. Hell most people don't realize that one of the designer of the un was alger hiss, and his claim to fame was a communist spy.

The un has for a long time been planning to deprive all countries, and especially the US of individuals weapons. Again, those who believe that those sob's are for world peace, and care about what your rights are, must also believe that Klinton and his group of cronies were innocent of anything that was said about them.

To the foreign post, you live as subjects, in not only your country, but now the eu and the un. You have no rights, nor do you have a history that has the greatest document man has created, The United States Constitution. And if you say a word against it, then fuck off and die.

Oh I forgot to the one's who love the UN. When I took the oath, it was to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. It was not to a specific individual, international group, or some maggot from Denmark, Russia, England or any other country given authority by the acting president ( be he a closet socialists, communist or one worlder) to command and direct you.

No organization, not even the U.N., exists except in the persons of those who "serve" it.  They ARE the U.N.  There can be no defense of "innocence" when it comes to their responsibility for anything the U.N. does.  You're living in a dreamland if you believe otherwise.  

                 [%(]      

Hey, Boland!   There is no compromise with tyranny.  If you do not understand that Americans are not subjects of our governmnet, you need to read our Constitution. We are trying to hold on to the only free country in the world.  Everybody criticizes until they need someone to save their ass from tyranny. Then, they scream for Americans to come shed American blood to save them.  The NRA collected guns for Britain in WWII.  I don't think I'll donate next time. If the hot blooded patriotic lover of freedom ceases to exist here in America, a new Dark Ages will begin for the world.  Read the plan to reduce the world population to 600 million people (Veritas Newspaper, writings of Barbara Marx Hubbard) and start thinking about how the UN plans to do that...since they have now stated birth control does not work....leaving only death control.  It is later than you think...

To all of the idiots who can't understand what I am saying:

I said 47 was wrong in saying it is traitorous to serve under a foreign commander.  In today's US military I am right.  In the military of the Revolutionary War I am right.  There is barely anything in the Constitution pertaining to the military, and it pisses me off to see people having diarrhea of the mouth.  

I took an oath.  I believe dearly in that oath, and will uphold it with my life.  

And as too the Nazis, every country is guilty of killing innocents under orders.  Anyone here serve in Nam?

I have my limits, and I will never infringe on the liberty and freedoms of Americans.  

So fuck you and your assumations.

And it is Pvt. Andrews.

And many of you need to reread the oath.  There is just as much about the constitution as there is following orders of your superiors, they are ALL parts of the oath.

>>PLEASE VISIT THE LINKS PROVIDED BY 47.<<
OK, nothing new there, same stuff that most of the far right Militias-R-Us radical element has been saying for years.  Doesn't change anything just because some paranoid folks put their delusions on a website.

>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted:
The truth is that the government and the courts have decided otherwise. You may not like it, but THAT is the truth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The truth has nothing to do with what the courts decide, the judicial branch of our current BS government can not change our constitution.<<
You apparently did not read the post, which was that the statement made by 47 regarding treason was not correct, that the truth was that the courts had ruled differrently.  You may not like the rulings, but you do have to recognize that the ruling has been made.
>>If the courts decided that the right to bare arms was not an individual right would that be the truth? NO. <<
Actually it would.  That Constitution that everybody keeps talking about following and defending gives that authority to the Court.  Always amazes me how people will take part of the Consitution and swear by it but then totally ignore other parts that they don't agree with.

rifleer,

So, its Ok to carry out the orders of commanders who have no regard for US soveriegnty, or the soveriegnty of other nations? The Constitution does not specifically adress that, you are correct. However, our Standing Army (when formed) was also not intended to be used as a sword weilded by foreign potentates. Read the portions of [i]The Federalist Papers[/i] and [i]The Anti-Federalist Papers[/i] and you will get a pretty good picture of the Founders [b]intent[/b] with regards to our military. The idea was the defence of Liberty for America, not a pool of Hessian mercenaries to be sent to the highest bidder.

Also, what happens when the President and the officers appointed over you, order you to do things that are contrary to The Constitution?? They are supposed to be following that document, too. When they dont, the default authority is The Constitution, not whoever is in office that day. They may be included in the oath, but they arent the final authority in any sense.

>>I have my limits, and I will never infringe on the liberty and freedoms of Americans. <<

So, its Ok to infringe upon the Soveriegn Rights and Liberty of people from other nations? [:)] While other nations may not have our Constitution, the Rights enumerated (not granted or given) by that document are supposed to be the same for every free person, no matter where they come from (I mean that in a Philosophical sense, I realise that our law doesnt apply to them, etc)

Your primary duty is to defend the Soveriegn Liberty of the American people. Anything else is a distant second, if it is even on the list. Thats what that oath means, no ifs ands or buts. (Or has it changed since 1984? Maybe its different now?? I dont know...) How about post the Oath that [i]you[/i] took, then we will have a proper frame of reference.

Also, do a bit of research on [b]who[/b] started the League of Nations, and later the UN. Every last one of them was one shade or another of collectivist/leftist/socialist/etc. In short, they were all people who stood for things that are 180 degrees away from Individual Liberty and Sovereignty. They believed that government dispensed all "rights" (actually priviledges that could be revoked). Individuals like Alger Hiss (confirmed Soviet agent) arent people you should be keen to accept orders from. Its rather eye-opening once you begin to dig a little.

Here is just one observation to get things started. In 1913, Congress amended the Constitution to allow [i]direct election[/i] of Senators. That is incredibly UnConstitutional, as it not only shifts our nation from a Republic to something closer to a vile democracy, but it stripped away a very large portion of the sovereignty of the several states. Shocking that it was allowed to happen...but apparently our great-grandparents were nearly as complacent as most people are today....


Thoughts??

G2

Boland, thats a set of pretty neat toys. You must be a Bona Fide Machinegun Collector, right?? (Unless thats an AirSoft playset LOL) What will happen to those cool toys when you pass on?? I am given to understand that the Canadian government hasnt given out and more Collector Licenses, nor will they ever again. That and the RCMP has a real hard-on about individuals who own such items. I was friends with a fellow in Winnipeg who was a Collector...didnt sound like much fun, and he was pretty unhappy with how things had gone for y'all over the last twenty years or so.

I'll pass on both the toys (or at least the circumstance surrounding them), and the Medicare. Under our Constitution, thats not the job of government. I realise that it is in Canada, so if you like it then thats a good thing, I guess. (Thats not a flame, just an observation. Canada is a wonderful place for Canadians, I just dont want the US to become like it. Im sure most Canadians feel the same way about the US [:)] )

Thoughts??

G2

Boland you keep talking about the good the UN
does in helping children and refugees but you won't answer the question why they exist.
Why won't you answer the question?

Ah, finally someone (Grenadier2) not completely ignorant on the subject to debate with.

It is ok to carry out those orders as long as they do not contradict other parts of my oath, yes.

We weren't intended to even have a standing army.  That was the point of the  Guard and militias, to be there if there was a threat.  Some people on this board need to wake up and see America is not what the founding fathers ever dreamed it would be, and while we must uphold the constitution, some of it really is outdated.  A country of 250 million could not survive without a standing army, yet there are no provisions in the constitution for one.  

And finally, yes it is.  I took an oath to defend the [b] U.S. [/b] constitution, not some other countries, especially an enemy of the US.

I love the way the country was supposed to be, and dislike the way it is now, but I enlisted in the way it is now, fully accepting that way.  

If it ever comes to taking guns, whose side do you all think I will be on? :D

Hey PVT.

So your...what....just out of Boot Camp? Have you finished your F.O. training?

And, to answer the question I did leave the USMC becuase I was asked to participate in excercises I felt were too "Police Like" and "peacekeeping" for my tastes. Along with a few discussions with certain high individuals I felt that it was time to go. I respect those who serve, even you, but always remember WHO you are fighting for. Unconstitutional orders are just that...could YOU put down your arms and walk the other way?

rifleer,

The swiss have done just fine without a standing army, and they have been around a bit longer than we have.

I am not convinced that we do need a standing army. What for? A well trained reserve and a real militia (as the founders envisioned) should be just fine for the defense of our borders.

You do know that defending the country from enemies foreign and domestic is all that the founding dads authorized, right?

The bottom line is this: if we were not running around the world sticking our noses in everyone else's business, we would have little  need for a standing army in peace time. We have soldiers vaccinating dogs in turd world contries, for God's sake. Find that in the Constitution.

Hell, we would have a harder time mobilizing for an invasion scenario than all of the other contingencies we plan for now (going elsewhere to fight someone else). We would have to spend weeks getting everyone back, not to mention the ever shrinking number of bases. The San Francisco Bay area where I live doesn't even have any kind of military defenses. No Navy, no Army, no nearby Air Force fighting wings, no missle defense, zilch.

It seems to me that we now have the exact OPPOSITE of what the founding dads intended.

Your assignment is to tell me why what we have now is better than what the dads expressly laid out?

Ray

Okay,

I decided to give myself some time to cool after yesterday, and this thread turned out into a good discussion too.

As far as registering guns, yes all my weapon are registered and licenced. It's the only option in the Netherlands to own firearms.

But then again, how many states are there right now how ever opposed by the owners that need to register handguns. NICS background checks etc etc. And even then, your gov. has decided you cant be trusted with short barrels, flashhiders, bayonet lugs and normal capacity magazines.

Those who have visted my webpage in the past, have noticed my BM M4 clone has a short barrel + all the other evil features banned under the AW ban. It's the same for my 20", normal 13 round mags for my HK USPc and my newly bought M14.

So what is freedom, freedom is by definition the ability to move between the limitation.
There is no freedom without limitation, unlimited freedom is anarchy. And anarchy would lead to a situation most people would embrace as a SHTF type situation.

I went head to head with 47 because I felt he was unjustly singling out the individual soldiers who are ordered to carry out a policy under a UN flag. First at Keld, and later on indirectly on my own brother.

You wont see the UN marching trough US streets, and not because the armed population of the USA. But simply because the UN can directly interfere with nations internal policies. However much they would like to. It's your own government you have the most to fear from.

Chances are  you'll sooner see a squad of ATF on your doorstep than foreign soldiers wearing blue helmets.

Make no mistake about it, I think the UN is nothing but a forum for the 3rd world to get their little ways. A way to get some from the "haves" by the "have not's". Their directives on small arms is some thing I am dead set against, even though I think they mean the large amounts of small arms shipped by the west to Asia, the middle east and Africa.

So let's take the UNMEE mission as an example, both Keld and my brother are currently serving in either Erithrea or Ethiopia.

I keep in touch with both, they have seen village militias armed with anything from LeeEnfield bolt action rifles to FAL's/AK etc etc.

These militias are needed to protect the villages from bandits roaming the countryside. The only weapons confisquated(sp?) are found weapons left behind in the trenches.

And even if the individual peacekeeping forces suspect things to go sour as soon as they will turn their backs to the country. They have seen what stability does to a community.

You shouldnt trust the UN, but you shouldnt trust your own government with protecting your interests. I know I dont.

As to anyone here, who keeps insisting on their "I'll be the first kid on the block to shoot me a bluehelmet". Keep dreaming, cause it aint gonna happen.

The enemy is already in the wire, diviseness.

Kuiper

Nice equipment, but it is leased to you.  It is in your possession until the powers that be decide otherwise.  Your equipment is accounted for and cataloged by someone else, that you apparently trust.


Right. [:(]
I have every single piece of equipment you have in that box.  The freedom I enjoy is that I didn't have to regester it, and I answer to no one as to why I need/want it.  [size=4]That is freedom baby![/size=4]

As far as you being from Kanada, I can now understand your argument.  I also enjoy healthcare, but I pay for it, and I’m happy to have a choice in what I pay for.  Steve m, darm441…for a lack of a better term (because that term would be vulgar), you guys are [size=3]bona-fide weenies![/size=3]   Where have you been?!   Confiscation has already happened here in America!  It is illegal for a Kalifornia citizen to own an AR-15, other than what was grandfathered in.  If it wasn’t grandfathered, it was mandatory that the rifle was to be [size=3] turned in![/size=3]

[red][size=5]Those same people who orchestrated registration and seizure in Kalifornia, are actively turning to the UN for help in furthering their agenda! [I]The UN can not be trusted[/I][/size=5][/red]  

You Kanadians (socialists) can have the UN and your state run health care.  Boland, now that I know your from Kanada, arguing my(our) point with you is futile.  That’s like trying to tell a marine after boot camp that he [I]really is an individual[/I].

Those of you that say if you go under the command of the UN you are a traitor. If the President or a high ranking general say we will be in a multi-national force to accomplist some goals that are importantant to the US how is that being a trator. If they issue orders that are contrary to the US or the Consitution.....I remember there being something in the Oath about a duty not to follow illegal orders.

As a side note when Gen. Washington had his army at Valley Forge he put a Prussian, Col. Von Stueben, in charge of taining the army. Von Stueben produced the first Continental Army training manual. Are you saying G. Washington was a traitor for allowing a foriegn officer to be in charge of Continentals?

The links provided are no more valuable then links to the flat earth society or HCI. Extremism is never a virtue.  

Imbrog, sorry I mised the news, and don't plan on being incontinent anyway. [:)]

47's agressive attitude is wrong, it is why we get called "ugly americans". If he was determined, resolute, or principled that would be different. He started out by being just rude.

Trickshot I won't get into imigration issues. But I didn't see any here saying we should blindly trust the UN. The UN needs to be watched, in an impartial way. The US uses it's power in the UN to make sure US needs are looked after. Didn't we use our influence in the UN to build an alliance to deal ith Saddam Insane? Wasn't that a US goal that we turned into a UN goal?

Registration, I know there are deep feelings on this. Personally I don't care, I own 3 guns, everyone of them purchased through an FFL. I understand some of you opposed registration, that's cool I don't care either way. But to make it an issue for someone living in another country?? C'mon at least he is a gun owner.

And I just sold a handgun. I did it through an FFL. I would hope that it makes it less likely a BG purchases it or uses it in the future.

Korea, the country was divided by the US and Russia as part of the Yalta agreements. We never meant the division to be permanent, Uncle JS had other ideas. Would the UN have been invloved in that war if we hadn't have wanted it? Wasn't that just the "free world" fighting the "Iron curtain"? under the auspisces of a UN peacekeeping mission? Would US troops have been there if we didn't think stopping comunism was a goal the US wanted?

47, I'm glad you got out, it keeps you from military weapons, or being posted overseas as a represtative of the US military.

I also find it interesting that so many of you are opposed to having military from other countries in CONUS. I don't really want them here either. But I was stationed in the FRG for 1.5 years. and was in Honduras briefly. The US is all over the world, and we get upset when others question why we need a military presnce in their country. (double standard??)

The Swiss have no standing army. Correct except every able-bodied adult male from 18-55 is in the militia. They are issued military rifles that they keep at home, and upon retiremnet may buy them from the military. Very little trouble with firearms being involved in crimes there. Next you'll be saying that the Swiss don't have a navy why should we.

All I'm saying is there are alot of conspiracy theorist out there. Don't believe what they say just 'cuz it's on the internet or in paperback. Judge for yourself, keep an open mind. Treat others as you would like to be treated, 47.

[i]Conspiracy[/i] -- [b]1)[/b]An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act [b]2)[/b]A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design [b]3)[/b]An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or acomplish a legal purpose through illegal means. [b]Synonyms: [/b]conspiracy, plot, machination, collusion, intrigue, cabal.
Each of these nouns denotes a secret plan to achieve an evil or illegal end. Conspiracy refers to such a plan by a group intent usually on a treacherous purpose.
[center][u]Websters[/u][/center]




There is no theory here, it is a [size=3]reality.[/size=3]  Again I ask, where have you been?!
Confiscation has already happened here in America! It is illegal for a Kalifornia citizen to own an AR-15(and other rifles and pistols), other than what was grandfathered in. If it wasn’t grandfathered, it was mandatory that the rifle was to be [i]turned in[/i]!

[center][size=4]I SAY AGAIN[/size=4][/center]

[size=5][red]Those same people who orchestrated registration and seizure in Kalifornia, are actively turning to the UN for help in furthering their agenda! The UN can not be trusted![/size=5][/red]

[size=5][blue]I guess registration has it's privileges, huh?[/size=5][/blue]