Posted: 7/9/2004 7:26:14 AM EDT
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Am I the only one who is bothered by the idiots who come in a gun shop and take no care in the muzzle direction of the guns they are finger fucking??? Yesterday some guy was looking at some small caliber rifle while I was filling out the 4473 for a purchase. I watched the clerk check/clear the weapon. I watched the guy check the weapon. He then turns the rifle over so he can look in the action. The muzzle is now pointing right at me, and covering two other customers as well as general direction of the other clerks. He cycles the action a couple times and the muzzle is still covering us........no one, including me says anything. Would you? Should I have said anything? When I am finger fucking weapons I try to maintain muzzle control and pick the most "safe" direction, knowing that one direction is not necessarily "safe" in a crowded store in a town anyway. I NEVER muzzle sweep anyone, period. Anyone else feel this way about this??? I see it happen quite a bit. |
I move AWAY from them when they start doing that, freaks me right out, I've had to push barrels away that were pointed at me before My g/f pointed a .38 that we were looking at at the gunstore dude, I was PISSED! He didn't seem to care in the least, I was the one that grabbed it with my fingers behind the hammer and pushed it down to the counter. That's the only time she's ever done anyting like that and she even said "But it was unloaded" to me in the parking lot. I was speachless |
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I'd say it's probably impossible for a gun shop to prevent people from doing this. It's why they don't keep loaded mags any where near the displays, and why they always check/clear the weapon before putting it in the customer's hands. BUT YES ! you should have said something. Never make any apologies for being safety conscious and responsible about guns. How else are these people going to learn??? |
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I'm the same way. I always point it up toward the ceiling when I'm screwing with them. All the shops I go to only have one floor so I'm at least fairly sure no one is up there. I've moved away from people that do that. I've grabbed barrles and moved it for them before. I've even tried asking nicely "Would you mind pointing that in a safe direction please?" I've found that the ploite approach doesn't work. They immediately start with the "It isn't loaded, crap." Well, maybe not, but how do I know that dipshit? Grrr..... Moving away at least eliminates the potential danger to me, but doesn't teach oblivious morons anything, so I kind of feel like I'm contributing to the problem if I DON'T say anything. Grabbing the gun and moving the barrel for them always gets strange looks and a few disgruntled comments, but you know something? They don't do it to me again. Maybe I'm just anal about it, but it really does bug the shit out of me. |
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I usually step back and shoot a disapproving look in the direction of the guy that's sweeping me and the store owner. Unfortunately, the customer is usually busy with the gun and doesn't notice and the store owner doesn't say anything as he wants the guy to buy the gun. I'm usually at ease if the slide is locked back or the cylinder/action is open and the finger is off the trigger. What scares me is when these idiots drop the slide or spin and flip the cylinder closed and start doing their best SWAT commando impressions. I take that as my cue to get out of the area. |
| That's happened to me in the fun shop a couple of times, and at an arfcom shoot once. I simply say, fairly loudly, "stop pointing that at me". The one time I got the "but it's not loaded" reply, I responded "I didn't ask you if it was loaded, I told you to stop pointing it at me". Seems to work pretty well. |
Was she educated in the ways of the gun? People who haven't been trained are unaware or complacent. When my daughter was 12 she expressed an interest in shooting. Before she touched a gun she had to be able to recite the Four Rules from memory. There was one time she broke a rule and I made her write them out 50 times and it was a month before I took her shooting again (she loves to shoot). Now, a year later, there are no problems. Her muzzle discipline and situational awareness on the range are impressive (I wish I could channel that focus into homework!). She picks up on rule violations on TV shows all the time. I guess what I'm saying is, if she wasn't trained, do just get pissed at her. Teach her. Then again, if she has been trained she knew better... |
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At the last gun show here there was an individual walking around with his finger on the trigger of a revolver. There was a safety tab [zip tie] through the barrel and cylinder, but I still said "Sir, would you mind taking your finger off of the trigger". He replied "it's been made safe and it's unloaded". I replied "Sir, that may be the case, but it is unsafe and it is making people nervous. You may not be aware, but there are some people in this room that you do not want to make nervous." It was like the light went on and his finger was quickly off of the trigger. I was not in uniform, but he still got the idea. |
Sure, she had a 16 hour CCW course which included range shooting and about 10 hours of skeet shooting lessons, not to mention having been out shooting with me and others. She also works in a field that requires working with potentially dangerous equipment and substances, it was very out of character that's why I was so disappointed in her. I have to admit that was her only mistake and it was shortly after she had started shooting, but still I didn't take her again for quite awhile after that and had second thoughts about having her shoot at all.  She's been several times since then and has been very good, I think she was pretty rattled by my getting angry with her, I don't think I'd ever been upset with her like that before and I've known her for at least a decade.I had just opened the cylinder and checked it right in front of her before closing it and handing it to her, but I don't care you don't point 'em at people unless you mean to kill 'em. |
Sounds like an opportunity for some relationship building, eh Big Guy?  "Come on, Darlin', let's go shooting!" |
It's almost impossible not to in some gunshows... they're so freakin' crowded as soon as you pick it up you are covering 20+ people. I think it's just one of those things you have to accept. Kind of like people who blow through a crosswalk when you're already crossing. Some people are clueless while other calculate the odds and make their move knowing they aren't going to hurt anyone. |
We went shooting with another member of the board and his wife and she had fine old time. I didn't shoot while she shot, I stood right beside her and his wife let her shoot her Ruger .22. She had a lot of fun with that because they had steel targets that made a noise when she hit them, she doesn't like shooting targets. The next day she was dragging me to Brass Pro shop, she wants a Browning Buckmark Camper for "her." She has a .38 revolver of mine but no guns that are "hers" She's after me to get her a Sig 239 and an AR with a shorter stock that she can shoot, A2s are too long for her. She still needs a lot of work, she can't handle working the action, inserting magazines and so on without thinking about it. Until she got to shoot at steel she never seemed to have that much fun shooting pistols so I didn't push it. She really needs a few more weekends of shooting and another course before she will be up for carrying, even though she has a permit. Sometimes it works better to have some instruction come from someone else, I can tell her do this/that/this, but when it's some SWAT guy that gets paid to teach gun fighting telling her the same thing I think it sinks in more |
sorry, but that is just wrong. the rules are: Rule #1 All guns are Always Loaded. <--------that is a period at the end of the sentence. Rule #2 Never point a gun at something you are not wanting to destroy, kill, maim, etc. Rule #3 Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are lined up and you are ready to shoot. Rule #4 Be aware of your target and what is behind it. be aware of the line the bullet will take if you miss the target. this also covers items in front of the target, such as benches or baffles (at a range) be Safe, then everyone can have fun. |
Sounds like love!
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I would have said in a loud Eddie Murphy (48 Hrs.) voice "HEY XXX (Gun Counter attendant), GO AHEAD AND GIVE ME A GUN TO POINT AT THIS GUY HERE POINTING THIS GUN AT ME!" Then you could say "Oh, that's right, we aren't supposed to point them at anyone!"  Or say "Don't shoot man! You can have my wallet! (Assuming the spread eagle position on the counter!)  I would have moved to the othe side of him at the very least! BigDozer66 |
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I'm always VERY careful about where my muzzle is pointed, but if I saw someone unload a rifle, and check it - they can point it at my crotch for all I care. I would never do it myself, but if I KNOW it's unloaded, it's just a piece of metal. Of course, if it is out of my sight for even a second, I'd go back to assuming it's loaded. |
No kidding. I HATE that. And at gunshows it's too hard to control. You have some moron across the way using your head to check out a scoped rifle, and on the other side of the building (behind the beenie baby stand) you have some stupid kid at the cheezy $20 laser booth putting a laser from a handgun on your chest. Try to do this while Cletus is racking a shotgun's slide (while the bbl is pointed at your balls) for the 50th time and Tyron is gangsta gripping a chrome Lorcin towards your back. It's almost enough to make you want to turn anti... |
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Unfortunatly, I have guns pointed at me everyday I work. When working at a gunstore, you have to deal with people who know the rules and ones who don't. Had a young guy come in one day and ask if we had a holster for a Glock, and I ask him what model. He pulls his shirt up and proceeds to pull out a gun. I grab it from him before it is even all the way out of his pants, and I clear the firearm. It wasn't loaded, luckly, and it wasn't even a Glock. It was a S&W semi. Another time, I had to go out and reset the circuit breaker on line, and this little Mexican was in the position trying to shoot. He would pull the trigger, and nothing would happen. SO I tap him on the shoulder (I was to his right) and he turns around with the gun pointed up to my chest. I yanked it out of his hand, and drop the mag and rack the slide to the rear. Thank God there wasn't a round in the chamber, but after that, I decided to get a LIIIA vest for teaching!! Behind the counter, I try to tell people to point guns at the wall to either my left or right (THe wall has an open wetland behind it), but sometimes you will still get covered. |
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It is only *unloaded* guns that *accidentally* kill people. "I thought it was unloaded!!" At least that is the first statement that the shooter makes after he shoots his best friend or family member on the evening news or radio report. ALL guns are loaded and should be treated as such. |
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I've had that happen several times. The worst offender was at a shop to remain nameless. He worked there and was looking for serial numbers and such on a rifle I was buying. Three times that damned muzzel found my eye so I was looking right down the bore. I very visibly moved aside and flashed a look. I was not going to raise a stink cause I knew it was cleared but I still don't like seeing a muzzel pointing my way... ever. I haven't had another customer do it to me yet, but I would probably say something since I'm not aware of nor do I care what the condition of that firearm is. It simply should not be pointed at me. The worst offenders are at the range though. I was sitting on the bench one day talking to a friend of mine. They had just called commence fire and the guy next to us was packing up. I happen to look over and there is the barrel of a .30 caliber rifle pointed right at my chest. I stood up and said "God Damnit" before I even thought, and the dude gets this puzzeled look on his face. Before I can tell him to point that damn thing down range, the range officer gets on the horn and chews him out. I'm sure a vein could be seen on my forehead because I was pissed, and I mean pissed  . He quickly got it pointed down range only after sweeping everyone on the other side of his booth. That is the kind of stuff I just can't stand. Careless, and foolish.
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I always say "HEY!! don't point that at me" I made a bunch of friends at a local good ole boys sportsmans club when no less then three guys covered me with a muzzle in one night. When I was still in AK I coordinated many LE/Military shoots. The army guys from Ft. Wainwright were taught that if you cleared your M-16 it was ok to use it as a pointer. I used to jump and rejump and threaten thier brass about this, fuck thier frail little hurt feelings, don't want me to make you look like a asshat infront of God and everyone? Don't point a weapon at me EVER! simple rule. Shivan, say something and say it like you mean it. I would hate to hear of someone from here getting killed by a moron out there. Hunter out... |
I disagree with this... It's STILL UNACCEPTABLE in gunshows. There's a PERFECTLY GOOD CEILING! Aim at a 30 degree angle from the ground, and you're not covering ANYBODY! Gunshows REALLY SUCK. I remember taking a past girlfriend with me to a gunshow once, and some bubba picks up an Over/Under 12g Shotgun, and starts TRACKING HER HEAD as we walked closer (as if she were some kind of duck), then I hear *CLICK* (dryfire), and then MY HEAD WAS TRACKED, and another *CLICK*... It tried every ounce of my patience to keep from handing this f#cker's ass to him. He heard several choice words, and I bitched out the dealer who also had a huge pile of shotshells for sale right next to where this idiot was standing. How TF was I to know it wasn't loaded? |
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I took my son when he was in grade school to a former British fort in Canada (for a school field trip). They have a little show they put on with period uniforms and flintlocks -- shooting off a couple of blanks. I was helping some of the parents put away the uniforms the kids put on and saw the written policy for reenactors to follow regarding gun handling. In this policy was a cite of the law that basically said "sweeping someone with the muzzle of a gun, unloaded or not, is a criminal "offence""  in Canada.The worst offenders I have seen were this one family at a gravel pit who showed up. They set up a table at the line, but the kids would go back to the truck parked behind everyone and have dad reload their 22. I was packing up to leave when they got there, and left in a hurry when one girl about 12 is at the truck, behind everyone, loads her 22 semi and then chambers a round and walks with finger on the trigger back to the line.
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I was in a sports store one day and asked to look at a lever action rifle. Guy hands it to me and I pointed it up about 45 deg. Guys says can you keep it pointed at the wall behind me so you dont spook the customers? Some guy next to me says YEAH YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO KEEP IT POINTED DOWN RANGE AT ALL TIMES! I replied that would be great if WE WERE AT A RANGE! WTF? Down range at a sporting goods store? |
I guess you dont know what the inside of your barrel looks like and have never looked. |
Actually i have, you can look in most barrrels from the rear. The others i feel i have to look down the muzzle i check, check and check again to make sure they are unloaded. I'll quote someone else, because he said it so well:
It is only good gun safety that makes someone treat all guns as loaded, you have to be a real doofus to not treat a gun as loaded until you have personally checked it or to make fun of safety rules about guns. IOW, 1776, get a clue. |
If you cant clear your weapon correctly and look down the barrel to inspect or clean it without expecting to blow your head off YOU are the doofus! |
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There are more times than I can remember when I have been swept at a show, wish they would give everyone a copy of the rules as they walk in and first violation they get escorted right back out. If they want back in they can pay another $5. And repeat until they figure it out. |
I point them at people all the time, just to piss them off. Them: Hey, you mind not pointing that thing at me? It might be loaded. Me: Might my ass! I slipped a 150 gr softpoint in this baby when the clerk looked away! What the fuck you gonna do about it? Sometimes I'll grab an SKS or Mosin M-44 off the rack, unfold the bayonet and poke people in the ass with it. When they turn around, I just give give em a wild eyed, shit eatin' grin and nod my head towards the rifle to show them my finger wrapped around the trigger. Not really.
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One time at a local gunstore, when I was with two buddies of mine (they came cus one was banging the gun store girl). I asked the attendent if I could see an ar10 he had on display, I Pointed it at the wall sighted and then put it down, my one friend picked it up and did the same but at the cieling (this was the one banging the girl from the store), then when he puts it down my other friend picks it up, points it at the attendent and starts pulling the trigger going "Bang, Bang Bang" I was flabbergasted. I apologized to the guy, who was remarkably cool about it. He let me keep looking at rifles, but made me promise not to give them to my "Retarded friend over there" as he put it. |