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Posted: 12/5/2021 6:59:04 PM EDT
[#1]
I went to a Catholic wedding not to long ago. It was enjoyable. Didn't change my views on religion. Cool architecture.
 I went with a friend who attended Catholic school as a child. She was getting annoyed because I kept asking who all the people in the stained glass windows were. She didn't know. I think it was the oldest Catholic church in Detroit. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:01:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may also want to visit a Lutheran church. Many of the same trimmings and process, but with 100% less Pope. I did have the opportunity to attend a Lutheran church and was comfortable with the theology/sacraments and I was able to enjoy it. I have gone back a few times and will continue as the teaching/theology what can I say I am a solo gratia /solo fide kind of guy |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:02:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Ugh...I have nothing against Catholics per se, but I do with the man who is the current Pope. He is a phony and does nothing good for Catholics or other Christians, he is all about the Marxist open borders agenda and flooding every western country with Muslims - how does that help Catholics or other Christians to undermine Christianity in it's heartland [the west, especially Italy]??? If it wasn't for him and there was a firebrand in his place instead, then I would go to one if a relative asked me too just for the support I suppose, but not with the guy in the Vatican, no way it's never happening.
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:03:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: So not only can a priest infer whether a confessor is hot or not, he can tell who she is specifically from her sins, and use it as leverage...  indeedI can't tell if you even *want* to be honest and serious about this. You are just barely interacting with the meaning of the text I'm posting, it's like trying to discuss gun control with someone from cnn. Again, how does the priest NOT know who's confessing? Even if the priest didn't, how dumb would they have to be to not put the details together from what's confessed and figure out which of his people belong to whatever confession ? These are not rhetorical questions, you seem to be saying the priests can't know who is who. If you are, I'd really like to know why you think that. Beyond that, even if it were true that the priest couldn't know who made what confession (and I don't for a second believe they don't), the people in that church know he does, and that alone is ripe for abuse by the priests, and they *are* fallible humans. Quoted: Wow. That is some SERIOUS projection. So, do you normally accuse people of blackmail and extortion on the basis of no valid or reasonable evidence, or is this a not very often thing for you? ... you just accused me doing what I was talking about, merely and only on the basis of the fact that I'm talking about the subject. That's no better than if one of the jurors accused KR of murder because he had a gun. Quoted: In your mind, “man.” I get it. You think your church experience is superior. Makes sense as I wouldn’t expect anyone to continue to go to a church they didn’t like, however, in spite of your conceited feelings of superiority, people being people, your church family has the exact same issues as everyone else. You are not special nor enlightened Now you know what I think?!?!? You're not even interacting with what I'm posting, you're talking to the fictional stereotype in your head. What you've just posted here can't be proven from what I posted, you're just assuming it. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:04:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude, if you enjoy it, more power to you. I went to my Grandfathers funeral at a Catholic church and was pretty blown away when the priest went out of his way to remind us all we weren't welcome to partake in communion, 1. Because we werent raised or confirmed Catholic 2. My mother was divorced. Even though we attend church on a routine basis and believe in Jesus Christ.. Everyone in the church also shot very judging looks our way when we didn't partake. Oh, but the priest did make sure to mention we were free to come up and he would bless our heathen asses. Fuck him and the Catholic church. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have mixed feelings about it. I respect their wishes that I don’t partake so I won’t. Although, if I’m being honest, it’s disappointing I can’t. Communion is always available at my church so maybe I’ll just take it there. Should I have brought my JKV? Lol. I don’t even know what version Catholics prefer/require. I was screwing when they gave the numbers for the hymns anyway. Baby steps man. Dude, if you enjoy it, more power to you. I went to my Grandfathers funeral at a Catholic church and was pretty blown away when the priest went out of his way to remind us all we weren't welcome to partake in communion, 1. Because we werent raised or confirmed Catholic 2. My mother was divorced. Even though we attend church on a routine basis and believe in Jesus Christ.. Everyone in the church also shot very judging looks our way when we didn't partake. Oh, but the priest did make sure to mention we were free to come up and he would bless our heathen asses. Fuck him and the Catholic church. deleted. NM. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:11:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't tell if you even *want* to be honest and serious about this. You are just barely interacting with the meaning of the text I'm posting, it's like trying to discuss gun control with someone from cnn. Again, how does the priest NOT know who's confessing? Even if the priest didn't, how dumb would they have to be to not put the details together from what's confessed and figure out which of his people belong to whatever confession ? These are not rhetorical questions, you seem to be saying the priests can't know who is who. If you are, I'd really like to know why you think that. Beyond that, even if it were true that the priest couldn't know who made what confession (and I don't for a second believe they don't), the people in that church know he does, and that alone is ripe for abuse by the priests, and they *are* fallible humans. Well, since he can't actually see the person confessing, if would be interesting for him to be able to infer that little Bobby masturbates, especially considering that Joey, Steven, And Tommy do too; or that it specifically was Susan who slept with the milkman. Then again, surely people will be more accountable when they *super duper totally confessed* all of their sins to Jesus Christ himself directly without any sort of couseling or direction on how to mprove their spiritual life. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:15:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, since he can't actually see the person confessing, if would be interesting for him to be able to infer that little Bobby masturbates, especially considering that Joey, Steven, And Tommy do too; or that it specifically was Susan who slept with the milkman. Then again, surely people will be more accountable when they *super duper totally confessed* all of their sins to Jesus Christ himself directly without any sort of couseling or direction on how to mprove their spiritual life. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can't tell if you even *want* to be honest and serious about this. You are just barely interacting with the meaning of the text I'm posting, it's like trying to discuss gun control with someone from cnn. Again, how does the priest NOT know who's confessing? Even if the priest didn't, how dumb would they have to be to not put the details together from what's confessed and figure out which of his people belong to whatever confession ? These are not rhetorical questions, you seem to be saying the priests can't know who is who. If you are, I'd really like to know why you think that. Beyond that, even if it were true that the priest couldn't know who made what confession (and I don't for a second believe they don't), the people in that church know he does, and that alone is ripe for abuse by the priests, and they *are* fallible humans. Well, since he can't actually see the person confessing, if would be interesting for him to be able to infer that little Bobby masturbates, especially considering that Joey, Steven, And Tommy do too; or that it specifically was Susan who slept with the milkman. Then again, surely people will be more accountable when they *super duper totally confessed* all of their sins to Jesus Christ himself directly without any sort of couseling or direction on how to mprove their spiritual life. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:16:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It *is* because of the rcc beliefs that priests can't be married, that you have to have priests in the confessional, learning all the sins of everyone who goes (meaning, by definition, if he finds any humans attractive, he is handed blackmail and extortion goods on a silver platter), and it is because the priests are held to have powers they don't have because they are said to be literally in the place of Christ on earth, and they can't lose that even if they're kicked out of the priesthood. There's also the problem that there's a tradition of saying priests can't be arrested (or something very like that) which is involved here. All these things exacerbate the problems inherent in human nature since genesis 3. Until they are removed (and I cannot in any human way see that they ever will), the rcc institutions will continue to have problems with priests abusing their position. Other systems that do not elevate those in power to the same extent, will not as a system enable the same sort of abuse. We humans are screwed up and will abuse every single system, including the truth. Systems that make this easier will suffer worse from human corruption. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was raised Catholic, abused by them, have abandoned AND become non-denominational. I am sorry that you were abused by someone in the Faith. But, that is not the Faith. I would implore you to try to reconcile with the Sacraments and study the Faith. I family that have been abused in other situations. It is the individual that did this perverted act. Damn , abuse seems like a theme with that certain so called “faith” by your own admission……… No, they weren't abused by priests or clergy. My mother and my sister is different situations as children. You all are projecting. There is just as big an issue, if not greater in Protestant churches. But there isn't a unified theme with them for an entity to go after. In fact, public schools have an underage sex abuse problem. Eitherway.... it is NOT the Faith. These are sins for everyone. The priests have the Gift of Consecration and many other Blessings... but that just means they will be attacked more by Satan. It *is* because of the rcc beliefs that priests can't be married, that you have to have priests in the confessional, learning all the sins of everyone who goes (meaning, by definition, if he finds any humans attractive, he is handed blackmail and extortion goods on a silver platter), and it is because the priests are held to have powers they don't have because they are said to be literally in the place of Christ on earth, and they can't lose that even if they're kicked out of the priesthood. There's also the problem that there's a tradition of saying priests can't be arrested (or something very like that) which is involved here. All these things exacerbate the problems inherent in human nature since genesis 3. Until they are removed (and I cannot in any human way see that they ever will), the rcc institutions will continue to have problems with priests abusing their position. Other systems that do not elevate those in power to the same extent, will not as a system enable the same sort of abuse. We humans are screwed up and will abuse every single system, including the truth. Systems that make this easier will suffer worse from human corruption. Really? So, marriage will stop adultery & pedophilia? Interesting. Good thing everyone that is married never does any perverse, adulterous things. Good to know. I will send a letter to the Vatican about it. You are seriously ignorant on all these things. I realize you are trying to prove against my Faith and yours is better. But your worn out tropes are just sad. God Bless |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:16:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, since he can't actually see the person confessing, if would be interesting for him to be able to infer that little Bobby masturbates, especially considering that Joey, Steven, And Tommy do too; or that it specifically was Susan who slept with the milkman. Then again, surely people will be more accountable when they *super duper totally confessed* all of their sins to Jesus Christ himself directly without any sort of couseling or direction on how to mprove their spiritual life. I haven't been RC for a long time, but when I was most people didn't use the confessional. Face to face with no screen was common. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:18:57 PM EDT
[#10]
I have been raised Catholic since day one. Went to Catholic grade school and high school. I have to say this about being Catholic. Catholic guilt much like Jewish guilt is a real thing. It kind of keeps you a little bit more on the straight and narrow. Staying married is a big priority. When I look at my high school friends on Facebook I would say that the marriage retention rate is north of 90%.
Whether you believe in God or not, believing in a higher power and spending extra time with family for Easter and Christmas with a religious tilt is a good thing. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:21:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It *is* because of the rcc beliefs that priests can't be married, that you have to have priests in the confessional, learning all the sins of everyone who goes (meaning, by definition, if he finds any humans attractive, he is handed blackmail and extortion goods on a silver platter), and it is because the priests are held to have powers they don't have because they are said to be literally in the place of Christ on earth, and they can't lose that even if they're kicked out of the priesthood. There's also the problem that there's a tradition of saying priests can't be arrested (or something very like that) which is involved here. All these things exacerbate the problems inherent in human nature since genesis 3. Until they are removed (and I cannot in any human way see that they ever will), the rcc institutions will continue to have problems with priests abusing their position. Other systems that do not elevate those in power to the same extent, will not as a system enable the same sort of abuse. We humans are screwed up and will abuse every single system, including the truth. Systems that make this easier will suffer worse from human corruption. You do realize that marriage for priests was done away with because of nepotism within the Church? One of the legitimate criticisms Martin Luther had. There are still married Catholic priests today, the one at my parish got a dispensation from Pope John Paul II when he converted from the Anglican Church. He was already married with children at the time. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:21:29 PM EDT
[#12]
I have no problem with ritualistic cannibalism a few times a year. J/K, was raised Catholic, left the church and never looked back. If it is good for you, great. For me, I had to look elsewhere. Also, religious threads always do well in GD. Surprised this one isn't locked yet.
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:21:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't tell if you even *want* to be honest and serious about this. You are just barely interacting with the meaning of the text I'm posting, it's like trying to discuss gun control with someone from cnn. Again, how does the priest NOT know who's confessing? Even if the priest didn't, how dumb would they have to be to not put the details together from what's confessed and figure out which of his people belong to whatever confession ? These are not rhetorical questions, you seem to be saying the priests can't know who is who. If you are, I'd really like to know why you think that. Beyond that, even if it were true that the priest couldn't know who made what confession (and I don't for a second believe they don't), the people in that church know he does, and that alone is ripe for abuse by the priests, and they *are* fallible humans. So, do you normally accuse people of blackmail and extortion on the basis of no valid or reasonable evidence, or is this a not very often thing for you? ... you just accused me doing what I was talking about, merely and only on the basis of the fact that I'm talking about the subject. That's no better than if one of the jurors accused KR of murder because he had a gun. Now you know what I think?!?!? You're not even interacting with what I'm posting, you're talking to the fictional stereotype in your head. What you've just posted here can't be proven from what I posted, you're just assuming it. No, I’m interacting with a demented individual who cannot even support his own positions and who thus needs to resort to defection and ignores actual points being made |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:22:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... and they can't hear the voice? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't tell if you even *want* to be honest and serious about this. You are just barely interacting with the meaning of the text I'm posting, it's like trying to discuss gun control with someone from cnn. Again, how does the priest NOT know who's confessing? Even if the priest didn't, how dumb would they have to be to not put the details together from what's confessed and figure out which of his people belong to whatever confession ? These are not rhetorical questions, you seem to be saying the priests can't know who is who. If you are, I'd really like to know why you think that. Beyond that, even if it were true that the priest couldn't know who made what confession (and I don't for a second believe they don't), the people in that church know he does, and that alone is ripe for abuse by the priests, and they *are* fallible humans. Well, since he can't actually see the person confessing, if would be interesting for him to be able to infer that little Bobby masturbates, especially considering that Joey, Steven, And Tommy do too; or that it specifically was Susan who slept with the milkman. Then again, surely people will be more accountable when they *super duper totally confessed* all of their sins to Jesus Christ himself directly without any sort of couseling or direction on how to mprove their spiritual life. What voices are you hearing right now? Are they scary? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:28:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d consider being Catholic if it wasn’t for the numerous occasions where their catechism directly contradicts the scripture. Really? Where? Is your scripture short 7 books that Luther removed because they went against his beliefs? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:29:58 PM EDT
[#16]
If you check out a Catholic church and it appeals to you, I would suggest reading your Bible beginning to end before going back.
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:31:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? Where? Is your scripture short 7 books that Luther removed because they went against his beliefs? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’d consider being Catholic if it wasn’t for the numerous occasions where their catechism directly contradicts the scripture. Really? Where? Is your scripture short 7 books that Luther removed because they went against his beliefs? Even the best writer needs an editor |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:31:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you check out a Catholic church and it appeals to you, I would suggest reading your Bible beginning to end before going back. Which version? The one with 7 entire books removed? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:33:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Catholic Charismatic Movement, East End Ventura, '73 ish. Room was getting fuller and then the Nuns from private Catholic schools, in a herd. Scrutinized the whole "tongue thing", it was great. AND THEN the Head Dude in Charge of Catholic Stuff for the Whole "district"?? He came to inspect us
 Some heavy stuff happened.
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:35:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? So, marriage will stop adultery & pedophilia? Interesting. Good thing everyone that is married never does any perverse, adulterous things. Good to know. I will send a letter to the Vatican about it. You are seriously ignorant on all these things. I realize you are trying to prove against my Faith and yours is better. But your worn out tropes are just sad. God Bless Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was raised Catholic, abused by them, have abandoned AND become non-denominational. I am sorry that you were abused by someone in the Faith. But, that is not the Faith. I would implore you to try to reconcile with the Sacraments and study the Faith. I family that have been abused in other situations. It is the individual that did this perverted act. Damn , abuse seems like a theme with that certain so called “faith” by your own admission……… No, they weren't abused by priests or clergy. My mother and my sister is different situations as children. You all are projecting. There is just as big an issue, if not greater in Protestant churches. But there isn't a unified theme with them for an entity to go after. In fact, public schools have an underage sex abuse problem. Eitherway.... it is NOT the Faith. These are sins for everyone. The priests have the Gift of Consecration and many other Blessings... but that just means they will be attacked more by Satan. It *is* because of the rcc beliefs that priests can't be married, that you have to have priests in the confessional, learning all the sins of everyone who goes (meaning, by definition, if he finds any humans attractive, he is handed blackmail and extortion goods on a silver platter), and it is because the priests are held to have powers they don't have because they are said to be literally in the place of Christ on earth, and they can't lose that even if they're kicked out of the priesthood. There's also the problem that there's a tradition of saying priests can't be arrested (or something very like that) which is involved here. All these things exacerbate the problems inherent in human nature since genesis 3. Until they are removed (and I cannot in any human way see that they ever will), the rcc institutions will continue to have problems with priests abusing their position. Other systems that do not elevate those in power to the same extent, will not as a system enable the same sort of abuse. We humans are screwed up and will abuse every single system, including the truth. Systems that make this easier will suffer worse from human corruption. Really? So, marriage will stop adultery & pedophilia? Interesting. Good thing everyone that is married never does any perverse, adulterous things. Good to know. I will send a letter to the Vatican about it. You are seriously ignorant on all these things. I realize you are trying to prove against my Faith and yours is better. But your worn out tropes are just sad. God Bless How does the fact that people abuse everything (which I explicitly said) change anything about the fact that the flaws I pointed at are present in the rcc system? Systems that do not have the same or equal flaws will not have those flaws exploited by people, because they're not there to exploit. Rcc priests are not allowed to marry and are commanded to be celibate. They have to take confession. They know who is who. They are human beings and the temptation to use their position is just as heavy for them as it would be for any other human being with the same level of position and power. ... and worse, those who do exploit it will be more enabled to exploit it against those who genuinely believe they have to use the confessional, because they are going to be the ones that lay their souls bare. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:35:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And that’s where I’m at. IMHO we are all striving for the same goal and have the same underlying belief—that of Christ as lord and savior—so the quibbling about minutiae is just that. We are all on the same team if you think about it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I feel that one should choose the Church he is most comfortable with, and then FOLLOW THE BIBLE. Surely humans can & will sin, including those with any Church. I chose Catholicism going through a long RCIA process which was inspiring and ultimately brought a positive change in my life. I knew early on that the Catholic Church had faults and some teachings that I didn't necessarily agree with, but in the end, what I was hearing was all intended for good. I had visited other Christian Churches of various denominations realizing that they too were less then perfect. I understand that when I chose the Catholic Church, it was for a means of bringing the message of Christ and the bible to me. I felt most comfortable with the long held customs of the weekly mass and liked the people who I met there. I am NOT going to judge Catholicism or any other denomination because of the evils that rogue ministers or their members have perpetrated. And that’s where I’m at. IMHO we are all striving for the same goal and have the same underlying belief—that of Christ as lord and savior—so the quibbling about minutiae is just that. We are all on the same team if you think about it. This is why we have 20,000 Chriatian denominations. Everyone that dislikes a teaching, wants to be their own Pope . Jesus left a Magisterium so that there would prayer discussion and guidance for Scripture. This is why when Protestants read the Church Fathers (Contemporaries of the Apostles and 1-2 removed) they can not reconcile beliefs. Weren't all the heresies "still on the same team"? Ariansim nearly collapsed the Church. Now we have the synthesis of all heresies.... Modernism. The Sacraments are why all Christians need to enter the Catholic Faith. It is the narrow path. But even those in it will see eternal flames not eternal life. We are all sinners. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:37:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I’m interacting with a demented individual who cannot even support his own positions and who thus needs to resort to defection and ignores actual points being made Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can't tell if you even *want* to be honest and serious about this. You are just barely interacting with the meaning of the text I'm posting, it's like trying to discuss gun control with someone from cnn. Again, how does the priest NOT know who's confessing? Even if the priest didn't, how dumb would they have to be to not put the details together from what's confessed and figure out which of his people belong to whatever confession ? These are not rhetorical questions, you seem to be saying the priests can't know who is who. If you are, I'd really like to know why you think that. Beyond that, even if it were true that the priest couldn't know who made what confession (and I don't for a second believe they don't), the people in that church know he does, and that alone is ripe for abuse by the priests, and they *are* fallible humans. So, do you normally accuse people of blackmail and extortion on the basis of no valid or reasonable evidence, or is this a not very often thing for you? ... you just accused me doing what I was talking about, merely and only on the basis of the fact that I'm talking about the subject. That's no better than if one of the jurors accused KR of murder because he had a gun. Now you know what I think?!?!? You're not even interacting with what I'm posting, you're talking to the fictional stereotype in your head. What you've just posted here can't be proven from what I posted, you're just assuming it. No, I’m interacting with a demented individual who cannot even support his own positions and who thus needs to resort to defection and ignores actual points being made Prove it from what I posted. I want you to. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:37:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is why we have 20,000 Chriatian denominations. Everyone that dislikes a teaching, wants to be their own Pope . Jesus left a Magisterium so that there would prayer discussion and guidance for Scripture. This is why when Protestants read the Church Fathers (Contemporaries of the Apostles and 1-2 removed) they can not reconcile beliefs. Weren't all the heresies "still on the same team"? Ariansim nearly collapsed the Church. Now we have the synthesis of all heresies.... Modernism. The Sacraments are why all Christians need to enter the Catholic Faith. It is the narrow path. But even those in it will see eternal flames not eternal life. We are all sinners. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I feel that one should choose the Church he is most comfortable with, and then FOLLOW THE BIBLE. Surely humans can & will sin, including those with any Church. I chose Catholicism going through a long RCIA process which was inspiring and ultimately brought a positive change in my life. I knew early on that the Catholic Church had faults and some teachings that I didn't necessarily agree with, but in the end, what I was hearing was all intended for good. I had visited other Christian Churches of various denominations realizing that they too were less then perfect. I understand that when I chose the Catholic Church, it was for a means of bringing the message of Christ and the bible to me. I felt most comfortable with the long held customs of the weekly mass and liked the people who I met there. I am NOT going to judge Catholicism or any other denomination because of the evils that rogue ministers or their members have perpetrated. And that’s where I’m at. IMHO we are all striving for the same goal and have the same underlying belief—that of Christ as lord and savior—so the quibbling about minutiae is just that. We are all on the same team if you think about it. This is why we have 20,000 Chriatian denominations. Everyone that dislikes a teaching, wants to be their own Pope . Jesus left a Magisterium so that there would prayer discussion and guidance for Scripture. This is why when Protestants read the Church Fathers (Contemporaries of the Apostles and 1-2 removed) they can not reconcile beliefs. Weren't all the heresies "still on the same team"? Ariansim nearly collapsed the Church. Now we have the synthesis of all heresies.... Modernism. The Sacraments are why all Christians need to enter the Catholic Faith. It is the narrow path. But even those in it will see eternal flames not eternal life. We are all sinners. Dude. Certainly you can see an attempt to be conciliatory |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:39:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have been raised Catholic since day one. Went to Catholic grade school and high school. I have to say this about being Catholic. Catholic guilt much like Jewish guilt is a real thing. It kind of keeps you a little bit more on the straight and narrow. Staying married is a big priority. When I look at my high school friends on Facebook I would say that the marriage retention rate is north of 90%. Whether you believe in God or not, believing in a higher power and spending extra time with family for Easter and Christmas with a religious tilt is a good thing. What is it that Christ says about those who are "lukewarm"? Not even all the Baptised will be saved. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:40:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's a silver platter invitation to use the quote button and show how the meaning of the text that I posted requires this position. Don't just state this. Prove it from what I posted. I want you to. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't tell if you even *want* to be honest and serious about this. You are just barely interacting with the meaning of the text I'm posting, it's like trying to discuss gun control with someone from cnn. Again, how does the priest NOT know who's confessing? Even if the priest didn't, how dumb would they have to be to not put the details together from what's confessed and figure out which of his people belong to whatever confession ? These are not rhetorical questions, you seem to be saying the priests can't know who is who. If you are, I'd really like to know why you think that. Beyond that, even if it were true that the priest couldn't know who made what confession (and I don't for a second believe they don't), the people in that church know he does, and that alone is ripe for abuse by the priests, and they *are* fallible humans. So, do you normally accuse people of blackmail and extortion on the basis of no valid or reasonable evidence, or is this a not very often thing for you? ... you just accused me doing what I was talking about, merely and only on the basis of the fact that I'm talking about the subject. That's no better than if one of the jurors accused KR of murder because he had a gun. Now you know what I think?!?!? You're not even interacting with what I'm posting, you're talking to the fictional stereotype in your head. What you've just posted here can't be proven from what I posted, you're just assuming it. No, I’m interacting with a demented individual who cannot even support his own positions and who thus needs to resort to defection and ignores actual points being made Prove it from what I posted. I want you to. Lol. Dude you are deranged. You bitch at people having the temerity to tell you what you believe as you do the exact same to others. Step out of the thread, have a drink, and go to bed—or do you want to make it interesting and go to the pit. Invite everyone in this thread along and they all get to vote. Loser leaves the site. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:43:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Dude you are deranged. You bitch at people having the temerity to tell you what you believe as you do the exact same to others. Step out of the thread, have a drink, and go to bed—or do you want to make it interesting and go to the pit. Invite everyone in this thread along and they all get to vote. Loser leaves the site. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't tell if you even *want* to be honest and serious about this. You are just barely interacting with the meaning of the text I'm posting, it's like trying to discuss gun control with someone from cnn. Again, how does the priest NOT know who's confessing? Even if the priest didn't, how dumb would they have to be to not put the details together from what's confessed and figure out which of his people belong to whatever confession ? These are not rhetorical questions, you seem to be saying the priests can't know who is who. If you are, I'd really like to know why you think that. Beyond that, even if it were true that the priest couldn't know who made what confession (and I don't for a second believe they don't), the people in that church know he does, and that alone is ripe for abuse by the priests, and they *are* fallible humans. So, do you normally accuse people of blackmail and extortion on the basis of no valid or reasonable evidence, or is this a not very often thing for you? ... you just accused me doing what I was talking about, merely and only on the basis of the fact that I'm talking about the subject. That's no better than if one of the jurors accused KR of murder because he had a gun. Now you know what I think?!?!? You're not even interacting with what I'm posting, you're talking to the fictional stereotype in your head. What you've just posted here can't be proven from what I posted, you're just assuming it. No, I’m interacting with a demented individual who cannot even support his own positions and who thus needs to resort to defection and ignores actual points being made Prove it from what I posted. I want you to. Lol. Dude you are deranged. You bitch at people having the temerity to tell you what you believe as you do the exact same to others. Step out of the thread, have a drink, and go to bed—or do you want to make it interesting and go to the pit. Invite everyone in this thread along and they all get to vote. Loser leaves the site. You made the accusations without giving any reasons to believe them. You didn't do so for any good reason. You cannot begin to show how what you've accused me of is true with even the tiniest shred of honesty and forthrightness. You made the accusation here. You don't know me from adam's housecat, so the only valid way you could have done so is based off the meaning of the text I posted. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:46:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I'm not going to be a good little boy and go away when you want me to. You made the accusations without giving any reasons to believe them. You didn't do so for any good reason. You cannot begin to show how what you've accused me of is true with even the tiniest shred of honesty and forthrightness. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't tell if you even *want* to be honest and serious about this. You are just barely interacting with the meaning of the text I'm posting, it's like trying to discuss gun control with someone from cnn. Again, how does the priest NOT know who's confessing? Even if the priest didn't, how dumb would they have to be to not put the details together from what's confessed and figure out which of his people belong to whatever confession ? These are not rhetorical questions, you seem to be saying the priests can't know who is who. If you are, I'd really like to know why you think that. Beyond that, even if it were true that the priest couldn't know who made what confession (and I don't for a second believe they don't), the people in that church know he does, and that alone is ripe for abuse by the priests, and they *are* fallible humans. So, do you normally accuse people of blackmail and extortion on the basis of no valid or reasonable evidence, or is this a not very often thing for you? ... you just accused me doing what I was talking about, merely and only on the basis of the fact that I'm talking about the subject. That's no better than if one of the jurors accused KR of murder because he had a gun. Now you know what I think?!?!? You're not even interacting with what I'm posting, you're talking to the fictional stereotype in your head. What you've just posted here can't be proven from what I posted, you're just assuming it. No, I’m interacting with a demented individual who cannot even support his own positions and who thus needs to resort to defection and ignores actual points being made Prove it from what I posted. I want you to. Lol. Dude you are deranged. You bitch at people having the temerity to tell you what you believe as you do the exact same to others. Step out of the thread, have a drink, and go to bed—or do you want to make it interesting and go to the pit. Invite everyone in this thread along and they all get to vote. Loser leaves the site. You made the accusations without giving any reasons to believe them. You didn't do so for any good reason. You cannot begin to show how what you've accused me of is true with even the tiniest shred of honesty and forthrightness. WTF are you talking about? Multiple posters in this thread have pointed this out. That you defect shows that even you are not confident in your position. Okay. Forget the pit. Let’s have a vote here and now from everyone in this thread—which of the two of us has held a rational position and which one has had an irrational position? Loser leaves the thread |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:48:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously ignorant ... and yet I already explicitly posted that people will abuse every system. You're using a red herring distraction. How does the fact that people abuse everything (which I explicitly said) change anything about the fact that the flaws I pointed at are present in the rcc system? Systems that do not have the same or equal flaws will not have those flaws exploited by people, because they're not there to exploit. Rcc priests are not allowed to marry and are commanded to be celibate. They have to take confession. They know who is who. They are human beings and the temptation to use their position is just as heavy for them as it would be for any other human being with the same level of position and power. ... and worse, those who do exploit it will be more enabled to exploit it against those who genuinely believe they have to use the confessional, because they are going to be the ones that lay their souls bare. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was raised Catholic, abused by them, have abandoned AND become non-denominational. I am sorry that you were abused by someone in the Faith. But, that is not the Faith. I would implore you to try to reconcile with the Sacraments and study the Faith. I family that have been abused in other situations. It is the individual that did this perverted act. Damn , abuse seems like a theme with that certain so called “faith” by your own admission……… No, they weren't abused by priests or clergy. My mother and my sister is different situations as children. You all are projecting. There is just as big an issue, if not greater in Protestant churches. But there isn't a unified theme with them for an entity to go after. In fact, public schools have an underage sex abuse problem. Eitherway.... it is NOT the Faith. These are sins for everyone. The priests have the Gift of Consecration and many other Blessings... but that just means they will be attacked more by Satan. It *is* because of the rcc beliefs that priests can't be married, that you have to have priests in the confessional, learning all the sins of everyone who goes (meaning, by definition, if he finds any humans attractive, he is handed blackmail and extortion goods on a silver platter), and it is because the priests are held to have powers they don't have because they are said to be literally in the place of Christ on earth, and they can't lose that even if they're kicked out of the priesthood. There's also the problem that there's a tradition of saying priests can't be arrested (or something very like that) which is involved here. All these things exacerbate the problems inherent in human nature since genesis 3. Until they are removed (and I cannot in any human way see that they ever will), the rcc institutions will continue to have problems with priests abusing their position. Other systems that do not elevate those in power to the same extent, will not as a system enable the same sort of abuse. We humans are screwed up and will abuse every single system, including the truth. Systems that make this easier will suffer worse from human corruption. Really? So, marriage will stop adultery & pedophilia? Interesting. Good thing everyone that is married never does any perverse, adulterous things. Good to know. I will send a letter to the Vatican about it. You are seriously ignorant on all these things. I realize you are trying to prove against my Faith and yours is better. But your worn out tropes are just sad. God Bless How does the fact that people abuse everything (which I explicitly said) change anything about the fact that the flaws I pointed at are present in the rcc system? Systems that do not have the same or equal flaws will not have those flaws exploited by people, because they're not there to exploit. Rcc priests are not allowed to marry and are commanded to be celibate. They have to take confession. They know who is who. They are human beings and the temptation to use their position is just as heavy for them as it would be for any other human being with the same level of position and power. ... and worse, those who do exploit it will be more enabled to exploit it against those who genuinely believe they have to use the confessional, because they are going to be the ones that lay their souls bare. How is that a red herring then? Celibacy was required for the High Priests of the Temple. During their year tenure. Just because you can not control your base urges, does not mean others can"t They are not FORCED to be priests!! They enter knowing these things. Which is why it takes years before you are allowed to take vows. Your argument is one that has been argued at nauseum for centuries and is always found flawed. A priest wears black, because he dies to this world. They sacrifice for us all. I will not deny that many priest falter more than others. They also will be judged by God much harsher than you. Because they know the full Truth. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:50:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously ignorant ... and yet I already explicitly posted that people will abuse every system. You're using a red herring distraction. How does the fact that people abuse everything (which I explicitly said) change anything about the fact that the flaws I pointed at are present in the rcc system? Systems that do not have the same or equal flaws will not have those flaws exploited by people, because they're not there to exploit. Rcc priests are not allowed to marry and are commanded to be celibate. They have to take confession. They know who is who. They are human beings and the temptation to use their position is just as heavy for them as it would be for any other human being with the same level of position and power. ... and worse, those who do exploit it will be more enabled to exploit it against those who genuinely believe they have to use the confessional, because they are going to be the ones that lay their souls bare. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was raised Catholic, abused by them, have abandoned AND become non-denominational. I am sorry that you were abused by someone in the Faith. But, that is not the Faith. I would implore you to try to reconcile with the Sacraments and study the Faith. I family that have been abused in other situations. It is the individual that did this perverted act. Damn , abuse seems like a theme with that certain so called “faith” by your own admission……… No, they weren't abused by priests or clergy. My mother and my sister is different situations as children. You all are projecting. There is just as big an issue, if not greater in Protestant churches. But there isn't a unified theme with them for an entity to go after. In fact, public schools have an underage sex abuse problem. Eitherway.... it is NOT the Faith. These are sins for everyone. The priests have the Gift of Consecration and many other Blessings... but that just means they will be attacked more by Satan. It *is* because of the rcc beliefs that priests can't be married, that you have to have priests in the confessional, learning all the sins of everyone who goes (meaning, by definition, if he finds any humans attractive, he is handed blackmail and extortion goods on a silver platter), and it is because the priests are held to have powers they don't have because they are said to be literally in the place of Christ on earth, and they can't lose that even if they're kicked out of the priesthood. There's also the problem that there's a tradition of saying priests can't be arrested (or something very like that) which is involved here. All these things exacerbate the problems inherent in human nature since genesis 3. Until they are removed (and I cannot in any human way see that they ever will), the rcc institutions will continue to have problems with priests abusing their position. Other systems that do not elevate those in power to the same extent, will not as a system enable the same sort of abuse. We humans are screwed up and will abuse every single system, including the truth. Systems that make this easier will suffer worse from human corruption. Really? So, marriage will stop adultery & pedophilia? Interesting. Good thing everyone that is married never does any perverse, adulterous things. Good to know. I will send a letter to the Vatican about it. You are seriously ignorant on all these things. I realize you are trying to prove against my Faith and yours is better. But your worn out tropes are just sad. God Bless How does the fact that people abuse everything (which I explicitly said) change anything about the fact that the flaws I pointed at are present in the rcc system? Systems that do not have the same or equal flaws will not have those flaws exploited by people, because they're not there to exploit. Rcc priests are not allowed to marry and are commanded to be celibate. They have to take confession. They know who is who. They are human beings and the temptation to use their position is just as heavy for them as it would be for any other human being with the same level of position and power. ... and worse, those who do exploit it will be more enabled to exploit it against those who genuinely believe they have to use the confessional, because they are going to be the ones that lay their souls bare. There’s that projection again. It certainly sounds like you are suggesting that ALL people with access and opportunity to influence the vulnerable, are MORE LIKELY to do so, because of “temptation”… Does this apply to psychiatrists, lawyers, coaches and counselors -or just priests? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:50:49 PM EDT
[#30]
OP, what flavor of Protestant are you?
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:51:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may also want to visit a Lutheran church. Many of the same trimmings and process, but with 100% less Pope. You need to specify Missouri Synod. The ELCA are in bed with the Episcopalians and liberal as hell. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:51:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude. Certainly you can see an attempt to be conciliatory Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I feel that one should choose the Church he is most comfortable with, and then FOLLOW THE BIBLE. Surely humans can & will sin, including those with any Church. I chose Catholicism going through a long RCIA process which was inspiring and ultimately brought a positive change in my life. I knew early on that the Catholic Church had faults and some teachings that I didn't necessarily agree with, but in the end, what I was hearing was all intended for good. I had visited other Christian Churches of various denominations realizing that they too were less then perfect. I understand that when I chose the Catholic Church, it was for a means of bringing the message of Christ and the bible to me. I felt most comfortable with the long held customs of the weekly mass and liked the people who I met there. I am NOT going to judge Catholicism or any other denomination because of the evils that rogue ministers or their members have perpetrated. And that’s where I’m at. IMHO we are all striving for the same goal and have the same underlying belief—that of Christ as lord and savior—so the quibbling about minutiae is just that. We are all on the same team if you think about it. This is why we have 20,000 Chriatian denominations. Everyone that dislikes a teaching, wants to be their own Pope . Jesus left a Magisterium so that there would prayer discussion and guidance for Scripture. This is why when Protestants read the Church Fathers (Contemporaries of the Apostles and 1-2 removed) they can not reconcile beliefs. Weren't all the heresies "still on the same team"? Ariansim nearly collapsed the Church. Now we have the synthesis of all heresies.... Modernism. The Sacraments are why all Christians need to enter the Catholic Faith. It is the narrow path. But even those in it will see eternal flames not eternal life. We are all sinners. Dude. Certainly you can see an attempt to be conciliatory I understand, truly. But, when peoples eternal souls are jeopardized, we can't mince words. I love our fellow brethren. But, we have been conciliatory at the expense of souls. Thank you for your witness, NavyDoc1. It is always needed. 
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:52:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Glad you enjoyed it, OP. I just got back from a Traditional Latin Mass. Raised Catholic and having gone to Mass every Sunday my entire life, I caution there are different flavors of Catholicism depending on the parish. In my experience, the more traditional, the more powerful it will be.
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:53:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understand, truly. But, when peoples eternal souls are jeopardized, we can't mince words. I love our fellow brethren. But, we have been conciliatory at the expense of souls. Thank you for your witness, NavyDoc1. It is always needed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I feel that one should choose the Church he is most comfortable with, and then FOLLOW THE BIBLE. Surely humans can & will sin, including those with any Church. I chose Catholicism going through a long RCIA process which was inspiring and ultimately brought a positive change in my life. I knew early on that the Catholic Church had faults and some teachings that I didn't necessarily agree with, but in the end, what I was hearing was all intended for good. I had visited other Christian Churches of various denominations realizing that they too were less then perfect. I understand that when I chose the Catholic Church, it was for a means of bringing the message of Christ and the bible to me. I felt most comfortable with the long held customs of the weekly mass and liked the people who I met there. I am NOT going to judge Catholicism or any other denomination because of the evils that rogue ministers or their members have perpetrated. And that’s where I’m at. IMHO we are all striving for the same goal and have the same underlying belief—that of Christ as lord and savior—so the quibbling about minutiae is just that. We are all on the same team if you think about it. This is why we have 20,000 Chriatian denominations. Everyone that dislikes a teaching, wants to be their own Pope . Jesus left a Magisterium so that there would prayer discussion and guidance for Scripture. This is why when Protestants read the Church Fathers (Contemporaries of the Apostles and 1-2 removed) they can not reconcile beliefs. Weren't all the heresies "still on the same team"? Ariansim nearly collapsed the Church. Now we have the synthesis of all heresies.... Modernism. The Sacraments are why all Christians need to enter the Catholic Faith. It is the narrow path. But even those in it will see eternal flames not eternal life. We are all sinners. Dude. Certainly you can see an attempt to be conciliatory I understand, truly. But, when peoples eternal souls are jeopardized, we can't mince words. I love our fellow brethren. But, we have been conciliatory at the expense of souls. Thank you for your witness, NavyDoc1. It is always needed. Christos Voskrese |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:53:44 PM EDT
[#35]
CSB
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:54:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I'm not going to be a good little boy and go away when you want me to. You made the accusations without giving any reasons to believe them. You didn't do so for any good reason. You cannot begin to show how what you've accused me of is true with even the tiniest shred of honesty and forthrightness. You made the accusation here. You don't know me from adam's housecat, so the only valid way you could have done so is based off the meaning of the text I posted. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't tell if you even *want* to be honest and serious about this. You are just barely interacting with the meaning of the text I'm posting, it's like trying to discuss gun control with someone from cnn. Again, how does the priest NOT know who's confessing? Even if the priest didn't, how dumb would they have to be to not put the details together from what's confessed and figure out which of his people belong to whatever confession ? These are not rhetorical questions, you seem to be saying the priests can't know who is who. If you are, I'd really like to know why you think that. Beyond that, even if it were true that the priest couldn't know who made what confession (and I don't for a second believe they don't), the people in that church know he does, and that alone is ripe for abuse by the priests, and they *are* fallible humans. So, do you normally accuse people of blackmail and extortion on the basis of no valid or reasonable evidence, or is this a not very often thing for you? ... you just accused me doing what I was talking about, merely and only on the basis of the fact that I'm talking about the subject. That's no better than if one of the jurors accused KR of murder because he had a gun. Now you know what I think?!?!? You're not even interacting with what I'm posting, you're talking to the fictional stereotype in your head. What you've just posted here can't be proven from what I posted, you're just assuming it. No, I’m interacting with a demented individual who cannot even support his own positions and who thus needs to resort to defection and ignores actual points being made Prove it from what I posted. I want you to. Lol. Dude you are deranged. You bitch at people having the temerity to tell you what you believe as you do the exact same to others. Step out of the thread, have a drink, and go to bed—or do you want to make it interesting and go to the pit. Invite everyone in this thread along and they all get to vote. Loser leaves the site. You made the accusations without giving any reasons to believe them. You didn't do so for any good reason. You cannot begin to show how what you've accused me of is true with even the tiniest shred of honesty and forthrightness. You made the accusation here. You don't know me from adam's housecat, so the only valid way you could have done so is based off the meaning of the text I posted. But you know every Catholic Priest. You really believe with a congregation of 100 the priest can identify every individual by voice and sin? I read this whole thread. One thing I’m gathering is that you are just an a$$hole bent on destruction. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:57:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get it. It happens in Protestant churches too but I think we get away with it due to having less structure than the Catholic Church. I did think it was interesting that everyone involved, including volunteers, had to complete annual training to do what they do. It’s sad that’s necessary but we live in a fallen world. Maybe I will. I visited Greece recently and I thought the Orthodox churches were beautiful. The chanting was certainly new to me. If you’re interested in checking out Orthodox parishes, stay far away from the Greeks. They’re only interested in being Greek. In my area, services are almost all in Greek. You want a parish of the Orthodox Church in America. It’s a daughter of the Russian Church. Got independence from Moscow in 1970. Or the Antiochian Archdiocese. Both have lots of converts and English services. I’m in an OCA parish. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 7:59:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Truth. You speak it. If you’re interested in checking out Orthodox parishes, stay far away from the Greeks. They’re only interested in being Greek. In my area, services are almost all in Greek. You want a parish of the Orthodox Church in America. It’s a daughter of the Russian Church. Got independence from Moscow in 1979. Or the Antiochian Archdiocese. Both have lots of converts and English services. I’m in an OCA parish. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I get it. It happens in Protestant churches too but I think we get away with it due to having less structure than the Catholic Church. I did think it was interesting that everyone involved, including volunteers, had to complete annual training to do what they do. It’s sad that’s necessary but we live in a fallen world. Maybe I will. I visited Greece recently and I thought the Orthodox churches were beautiful. The chanting was certainly new to me. Truth. You speak it. If you’re interested in checking out Orthodox parishes, stay far away from the Greeks. They’re only interested in being Greek. In my area, services are almost all in Greek. You want a parish of the Orthodox Church in America. It’s a daughter of the Russian Church. Got independence from Moscow in 1979. Or the Antiochian Archdiocese. Both have lots of converts and English services. I’m in an OCA parish. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:01:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? Where? Is your scripture short 7 books that Luther removed because they went against his beliefs? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:02:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am sorry that you were abused by someone in the Faith. But, that is not the Faith. I would implore you to try to reconcile with the Sacraments and study the Faith. I family that have been abused in other situations. It is the individual that did this perverted act. The issue I have (still do) is, I grew up in the heart of it: Rome, IT - I grew up by the Vatican walls, could see them by my windows. Nuns' school first - then priests. Both were and have been amazingly abusive - with two priests telling me plainly they wanted me. Thank God (yes, thanks to him) I have always liked (beautiful) women - plenty to be had in Italy, naturally - it ended up not affecting me. But I know of plenty of people that ended up miserably. What I have seen in those decades sufficed me for life. I would like to see the Catholic Church re-founded - I think they have massive issues (I don't think, I know - I saw it - I spoke to and with them for decades). My only true care lies in God and Jesus Christ - aside from religion itself. Be well, peace (and Merry Christmas!), |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:02:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russian Orthodox is best Orthodox. Also consider the Byzantine rite of Catholicism as well. Christos Voskrese The Byzantine Rite still kowtows to Rome. No thank you (raised Catholic, Orthodox since 2003) |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:03:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Christos Voskrese Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I feel that one should choose the Church he is most comfortable with, and then FOLLOW THE BIBLE. Surely humans can & will sin, including those with any Church. I chose Catholicism going through a long RCIA process which was inspiring and ultimately brought a positive change in my life. I knew early on that the Catholic Church had faults and some teachings that I didn't necessarily agree with, but in the end, what I was hearing was all intended for good. I had visited other Christian Churches of various denominations realizing that they too were less then perfect. I understand that when I chose the Catholic Church, it was for a means of bringing the message of Christ and the bible to me. I felt most comfortable with the long held customs of the weekly mass and liked the people who I met there. I am NOT going to judge Catholicism or any other denomination because of the evils that rogue ministers or their members have perpetrated. And that’s where I’m at. IMHO we are all striving for the same goal and have the same underlying belief—that of Christ as lord and savior—so the quibbling about minutiae is just that. We are all on the same team if you think about it. This is why we have 20,000 Chriatian denominations. Everyone that dislikes a teaching, wants to be their own Pope . Jesus left a Magisterium so that there would prayer discussion and guidance for Scripture. This is why when Protestants read the Church Fathers (Contemporaries of the Apostles and 1-2 removed) they can not reconcile beliefs. Weren't all the heresies "still on the same team"? Ariansim nearly collapsed the Church. Now we have the synthesis of all heresies.... Modernism. The Sacraments are why all Christians need to enter the Catholic Faith. It is the narrow path. But even those in it will see eternal flames not eternal life. We are all sinners. Dude. Certainly you can see an attempt to be conciliatory I understand, truly. But, when peoples eternal souls are jeopardized, we can't mince words. I love our fellow brethren. But, we have been conciliatory at the expense of souls. Thank you for your witness, NavyDoc1. It is always needed. Christos Voskrese Risen Indeed! |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:04:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: WTF are you talking about? Multiple posters in this thread have pointed this out. That you defect shows that even you are not confident in your position. Okay. Forget the pit. Let’s have a vote here and now from everyone in this thread—which of the two of us has held a rational position and which one has had an irrational position? Loser leaves the thread Quote HistoryQuoted: WTF are you talking about? Multiple posters in this thread have pointed this out. That you defect shows that even you are not confident in your position. Okay. Forget the pit. Let’s have a vote here and now from everyone in this thread—which of the two of us has held a rational position and which one has had an irrational position? Loser leaves the thread You posted this accusation: Quoted: No, I’m interacting with a demented individual who cannot even support his own positions and who thus needs to resort to defection and ignores actual points being made Which is false. I asked you to prove it based on what I posted and do so being forthright and honest. You have so far refused to. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:05:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Byzantine Rite still kowtows to Rome. No thank you (raised Catholic, Orthodox since 2003) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Russian Orthodox is best Orthodox. Also consider the Byzantine rite of Catholicism as well. Christos Voskrese The Byzantine Rite still kowtows to Rome. No thank you (raised Catholic, Orthodox since 2003) But still the same liturgy, ethnic traditions, and underlying theology—a few fine points excepted. Do not blanketly disregard your Ruthinian brothers and sisters. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:06:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, brother it's true. The issue I have (still do) is, I grew up in the heart of it: Rome, IT - I grew up by the Vatican walls, could see them by my windows. Nuns' school first - then priests. Both were and have been amazingly abusive - with two priests telling me plainly they wanted me. Thank God (yes, thanks to him) I have always liked (beautiful) women - plenty to be had in Italy, naturally - it ended up not affecting me. But I know of plenty of people that ended up miserably. What I have seen in those decades sufficed me for life. I would like to see the Catholic Church re-founded - I think they have massive issues (I don't think, I know - I saw it - I spoke to and with them for decades). My only true care lies in God and Jesus Christ - aside from religion itself. Be well, peace (and Merry Christmas!), Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am sorry that you were abused by someone in the Faith. But, that is not the Faith. I would implore you to try to reconcile with the Sacraments and study the Faith. I family that have been abused in other situations. It is the individual that did this perverted act. The issue I have (still do) is, I grew up in the heart of it: Rome, IT - I grew up by the Vatican walls, could see them by my windows. Nuns' school first - then priests. Both were and have been amazingly abusive - with two priests telling me plainly they wanted me. Thank God (yes, thanks to him) I have always liked (beautiful) women - plenty to be had in Italy, naturally - it ended up not affecting me. But I know of plenty of people that ended up miserably. What I have seen in those decades sufficed me for life. I would like to see the Catholic Church re-founded - I think they have massive issues (I don't think, I know - I saw it - I spoke to and with them for decades). My only true care lies in God and Jesus Christ - aside from religion itself. Be well, peace (and Merry Christmas!), I can not fault you for this. God Bless. I will pray for guidance for you. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:07:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Byzantine Rite still kowtows to Rome. No thank you (raised Catholic, Orthodox since 2003) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Russian Orthodox is best Orthodox. Also consider the Byzantine rite of Catholicism as well. Christos Voskrese The Byzantine Rite still kowtows to Rome. No thank you (raised Catholic, Orthodox since 2003) I love you Marie, but the Russian Orthodox Church Cowtows to Moscow... & the KGB. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:07:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You posted this accusation: Which is false. I asked you to prove it based on what I posted and do so being forthright and honest. You have so far refused to. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: WTF are you talking about? Multiple posters in this thread have pointed this out. That you defect shows that even you are not confident in your position. Okay. Forget the pit. Let’s have a vote here and now from everyone in this thread—which of the two of us has held a rational position and which one has had an irrational position? Loser leaves the thread You posted this accusation: Quoted: No, I’m interacting with a demented individual who cannot even support his own positions and who thus needs to resort to defection and ignores actual points being made Which is false. I asked you to prove it based on what I posted and do so being forthright and honest. You have so far refused to. And you keep defecting. Any quotes I may present you will deny—that’s rather obvious—which is why I put it up to the third party observers to make that judgement. If you were secure in your position, you would not run from it, so obviously you are not. I’m willing to throw myself on their judgement but you are not, which means your faith is weak. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:09:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went to a Catholic wedding not to long ago. It was enjoyable. Didn't change my views on religion. Cool architecture. https://i.imgur.com/JJH2wv3.jpeg I went with a friend who attended Catholic school as a child. She was getting annoyed because I kept asking who all the people in the stained glass windows were. She didn't know. I think it was the oldest Catholic church in Detroit. @basp2005? Ste Anne of Detroit? Parish established about 1701 or a few year later. Second oldest continually operating parish in the US after St Louis Cathedral in New Orleans. Had French sermons until 1945 |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:11:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s that projection again. It certainly sounds like you are suggesting that ALL people with access and opportunity to influence the vulnerable, are MORE LIKELY to do so, because of “temptation”… Does this apply to psychiatrists, lawyers, coaches and counselors -or just priests? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was raised Catholic, abused by them, have abandoned AND become non-denominational. I am sorry that you were abused by someone in the Faith. But, that is not the Faith. I would implore you to try to reconcile with the Sacraments and study the Faith. I family that have been abused in other situations. It is the individual that did this perverted act. Damn , abuse seems like a theme with that certain so called “faith” by your own admission……… No, they weren't abused by priests or clergy. My mother and my sister is different situations as children. You all are projecting. There is just as big an issue, if not greater in Protestant churches. But there isn't a unified theme with them for an entity to go after. In fact, public schools have an underage sex abuse problem. Eitherway.... it is NOT the Faith. These are sins for everyone. The priests have the Gift of Consecration and many other Blessings... but that just means they will be attacked more by Satan. It *is* because of the rcc beliefs that priests can't be married, that you have to have priests in the confessional, learning all the sins of everyone who goes (meaning, by definition, if he finds any humans attractive, he is handed blackmail and extortion goods on a silver platter), and it is because the priests are held to have powers they don't have because they are said to be literally in the place of Christ on earth, and they can't lose that even if they're kicked out of the priesthood. There's also the problem that there's a tradition of saying priests can't be arrested (or something very like that) which is involved here. All these things exacerbate the problems inherent in human nature since genesis 3. Until they are removed (and I cannot in any human way see that they ever will), the rcc institutions will continue to have problems with priests abusing their position. Other systems that do not elevate those in power to the same extent, will not as a system enable the same sort of abuse. We humans are screwed up and will abuse every single system, including the truth. Systems that make this easier will suffer worse from human corruption. Really? So, marriage will stop adultery & pedophilia? Interesting. Good thing everyone that is married never does any perverse, adulterous things. Good to know. I will send a letter to the Vatican about it. You are seriously ignorant on all these things. I realize you are trying to prove against my Faith and yours is better. But your worn out tropes are just sad. God Bless How does the fact that people abuse everything (which I explicitly said) change anything about the fact that the flaws I pointed at are present in the rcc system? Systems that do not have the same or equal flaws will not have those flaws exploited by people, because they're not there to exploit. Rcc priests are not allowed to marry and are commanded to be celibate. They have to take confession. They know who is who. They are human beings and the temptation to use their position is just as heavy for them as it would be for any other human being with the same level of position and power. ... and worse, those who do exploit it will be more enabled to exploit it against those who genuinely believe they have to use the confessional, because they are going to be the ones that lay their souls bare. There’s that projection again. It certainly sounds like you are suggesting that ALL people with access and opportunity to influence the vulnerable, are MORE LIKELY to do so, because of “temptation”… Does this apply to psychiatrists, lawyers, coaches and counselors -or just priests? Why do you behave like you can falsely accuse people of things ... things you have zero evidence for ... and not have anyone care or notice? Not rehtorical, why are you accusing me of doing these things? Do you think I don't know that "you're projecting" means "you do these things and because you do these things you accuse others of doing it?" ------------ Yes, all people with a position of equal influence in peoples live who have access and opportunity are going to encounter that temptation. Yes, bad actors will seek all those positions in order to get what they want. The more abusable the position and system, and the more widely know that the position exists and is exploitable, the more bad actors will try and get into those positions. This applies everywhere it applies and applies equally. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:11:22 PM EDT
[#50]
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