User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 12/6/2021 4:31:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvrL_Q4ykfANot the stance I was expecting, TBH. While Lehto made the usual jokes about “Ouija boards” and “probable cause on 4 legs” the reasoning wasn’t that at all. Many states have legalized pot, and pot’s one of the drugs the dogs are trained to sniff out… you can’t establish PC for a dog alerting on something that’s legal. So this could be pretty interesting on how this plays out for all states. As it is, in CO just the dog sniff alone isn’t PC any more. Interesting, never thought about that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/6/2021 4:35:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All drugs should be legal. End the nanny state. Exactly. I dont do drugs and never would. As long as what you are doing doesnt harm anyone else then go ahead. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/6/2021 5:22:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes there is harm as someones rights have been violated. "Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The dog can't tell you what type drug it hit on so the court should be able to issue a warrant as they can't describe what to seize. This would call into question all dog searches as their is no reason to believe that the drugs might have hit on a prescription.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I mean if the dog hits the officer has PC to enter a vehicle and if he finds nothing no harm no foul. Who says an officer can't train his dog to "hit" on order? Don't think for a minute this isn't happening. It is. I detest drug dealers but unethical law enforcement even more. "Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The dog can't tell you what type drug it hit on so the court should be able to issue a warrant as they can't describe what to seize. This would call into question all dog searches as their is no reason to believe that the drugs might have hit on a prescription. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/6/2021 6:52:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All drugs should be legal. End the nanny state. This. The war on drugs is a total failure |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/6/2021 10:56:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just showing up at the Galleria indicates you have questionable judgement. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/6/2021 11:11:22 PM EDT
[#6]
At this point, anything that takes away power from the police makes me happy
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/6/2021 11:13:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any dog trained in the last 2 years (possibly more) is not trained for Marijuana. This. It is assumed in the near future marijuana will be legal everywhere. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/6/2021 11:18:19 PM EDT
[#8]
As someone who has been on the receiving end of a couple of false hits, I'm all for it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/6/2021 11:29:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All drugs should be legal. End the nanny state. FPNI. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/6/2021 11:36:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As someone who has been on the receiving end of a couple of false hits, I'm all for it. But wasn't it a dive suit? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 10:32:04 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But wasn't it a dive suit? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As someone who has been on the receiving end of a couple of false hits, I'm all for it. But wasn't it a dive suit? Whaaaat?? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 10:38:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Not reading in 3 pages to say I've worked with Ouija Dags before
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 11:24:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just curious, has one of these dogs ever NOT hit on something when they walk around a car? Watching closely, I can't tell what the dog is doing that the guy is reading. Sure, SOMETIMES they scratch and jump on the car (what dog doesnt?) or sit down, but lots of times it's WTF did I just watch? A dog is a a way to get around the whole parallel construction problem or to hide informants, moles, and illegal electronic surveillance. "Our dog detected it" stops all thought and inquisition about what is actually going on. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 11:39:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have heard that for decades. The 9th Circuit has argued that the dogs are deadly force. Never taken into a case law though......and they have had recent chances. And you do realize most big organizations are self-insured? I have been sued over the K9, but not for biting. It was only for our "intimidating appearance" was in violation of the 4th. With bodycams and documenting every contact and deployment, there is an actual record of what occurs. When something is bad, they will pay quickly to settle and take care of injuries. Once there was a shift to longer settle everything, lawsuits dropped significantly. As for you walking by the car, my work dog would do that. That is his house and wants to protect it. Same way my house dog will do the same thing. Come to the door and he won't be friendly. My work dog would wait to bite you until I said it was ok. You might get covered in slobber while he was waiting though! 1-police dogs 2-methbilly pitbulls 3-purse dogs Dogs that sit in cars and stick out their tongue and wag their tail when you walk by -the rest of dogs self insured just means "we don't have insurance" not "we don't pay" More cities are self insured than in the past (or have larger self insured reserves) because premiums have risen so they can't afford insurance, but it's a big risk for anything less than a state or big city. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 11:42:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having watched "Cops" and lots of youtube videos, I am convinced there are things a dog does that is NOT "indicating a hit" that they handlers claim is "indicating" and they just bullshit their way through it. Watching closely, I can't tell what the dog is doing that the guy is reading. Sure, SOMETIMES they scratch and jump on the car (what dog doesnt?) or sit down, but lots of times it's WTF did I just watch? A dog is a a way to get around the whole parallel construction problem or to hide informants, moles, and illegal electronic surveillance. "Our dog detected it" stops all thought and inquisition about what is actually going on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just curious, has one of these dogs ever NOT hit on something when they walk around a car? Watching closely, I can't tell what the dog is doing that the guy is reading. Sure, SOMETIMES they scratch and jump on the car (what dog doesnt?) or sit down, but lots of times it's WTF did I just watch? A dog is a a way to get around the whole parallel construction problem or to hide informants, moles, and illegal electronic surveillance. "Our dog detected it" stops all thought and inquisition about what is actually going on. I will tell you with 100% certainty that when a k9 "hits" or "indicates" it is obvious. I train to have them sitz or platz. Handler or department preference. A handler saying a dogs licking, scratching, barking, etc.. is not considered a "hit" and should not a valid indication, that only shows lack of training IMHO. I have seen on shows blatant violation of constitutional rights on shows such as COPS and LivePD. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 11:54:10 AM EDT
[#16]
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/investigations/2020/12/28/police-dog-bite-compensation-easier-criminals-than-bystanders-indiana/4030448001/
Here's an article about Indianapolis' furry missiles  Interesting article-drunk driver got paid when Officer Dibo chomped him. Meanwhile Officer Scooter decided to take a break from pursuing a criminal to go bite the fuck out of a pregnant lady who walked out on her porch to see what's up. edit she got a chickenshit settlement for her injuries-her 'baby addicted to pain meds" claim makes me think "hmm/uh oh" though The criminal's have an easier time suing in Indiana because they only have to prove disproportionate force while random citizens who are attacked by police dogs have to go under the old "one bite" rule where you have to show that the dog had a known propensity for attacking random pregnant ladies-personally I think there's a way around this but whatever. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 12:03:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hear malls are hiring ccw greeters........ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/135145/9grih6u8a9v71-2193230.jpg |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 12:08:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whaaaat?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: As someone who has been on the receiving end of a couple of false hits, I'm all for it. But wasn't it a dive suit? Whaaaat?? The search function doesn't locate the old thread... it was a wetsuit that smelled like weed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 12:11:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The search function doesn't locate the old thread... it was a wetsuit that smelled like weed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As someone who has been on the receiving end of a couple of false hits, I'm all for it. But wasn't it a dive suit? Whaaaat?? The search function doesn't locate the old thread... it was a wetsuit that smelled like weed. Ohh. No wetsuit involved in either case. That'd be really odd, in the middle of the desert. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 12:15:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they hit on Hoppe and CLP? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I hear malls are hiring ccw greeters........ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/135145/9grih6u8a9v71-2193230.jpg Do they hit on Hoppe and CLP? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 12:41:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hear malls are hiring ccw greeters........ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/135145/9grih6u8a9v71-2193230.jpg I’ve seen those signs, and ignored them. I’ve also walked up to a security guard with a dog there and asked if I could pet it. He didn’t let me, but the dog apparently didn’t detect the 1911 I was carrying OWB from 4’ away. I don’t know the dog well enough to know if he was giving a conspiratorial look or not. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 12:45:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you insinuating that narcotics detecting dogs are trained to hit on legal prescriptions? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I mean if the dog hits the officer has PC to enter a vehicle and if he finds nothing no harm no foul. Who says an officer can't train his dog to "hit" on order? Don't think for a minute this isn't happening. It is. I detest drug dealers but unethical law enforcement even more. "Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The dog can't tell you what type drug it hit on so the court should be able to issue a warrant as they can't describe what to seize. This would call into question all dog searches as their is no reason to believe that the drugs might have hit on a prescription. You’re not replying to me, but I’ll bite. Can a dog tell the difference between illicit methamphetamine and Desoxyn? Can a dog tell the difference between “CBD Full Flower Hemp” sprayed with THC Delta-8 concentrate and illicit cannabis? Honest questions here - I don’t know. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 12:46:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/investigations/2020/12/28/police-dog-bite-compensation-easier-criminals-than-bystanders-indiana/4030448001/ Here's an article about Indianapolis' furry missiles Interesting article-drunk driver got paid when Officer Dibo chomped him. Meanwhile Officer Scooter decided to take a break from pursuing a criminal to go bite the fuck out of a pregnant lady who walked out on her porch to see what's up. edit she got a chickenshit settlement for her injuries-her 'baby addicted to pain meds" claim makes me think "hmm/uh oh" though The criminal's have an easier time suing in Indiana because they only have to prove disproportionate force while random citizens who are attacked by police dogs have to go under the old "one bite" rule where you have to show that the dog had a known propensity for attacking random pregnant ladies-personally I think there's a way around this but whatever. This one was really bad. Both the handler and K9 lost their "jobs"  St. Paul K9 attacks woman To the best of my knowledge, after this incident, St Paul changed their K9 program and now bring in outside trainers and do not have their own officers overseeing the program. They still source their dogs from the same kennel in Czech though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 12:48:24 PM EDT
[#24]
This is why I'm glad my dog is trained on just bed bugs.
I have about zero chance of it ending up in court or having someone detained. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 12:53:41 PM EDT
[#25]
And this is one of the reasons I will never recommend buckled collars. Cobra or otherwise.
 St. Paul Police Dog Bit Man After Collar Broke |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 1:17:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will tell you with 100% certainty that when a k9 "hits" or "indicates" it is obvious. I train to have them sitz or platz. Handler or department preference. A handler saying a dogs licking, scratching, barking, etc.. is not considered a "hit" and should not a valid indication, that only shows lack of training IMHO. I have seen on shows blatant violation of constitutional rights on shows such as COPS and LivePD. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 1:24:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure a properly trained dog and handler team can be very effective. But the single most likely place someone around here would encounter a K9 unit is a traffic stop in a town with 2-3000 people, where half of the eight man police department are part timers and the K9 handler makes $30k a year. When the town has as many K9 units as red lights, and a large percentage of the town budget is from traffic stops, they're probably not exactly the most well trained and by-the-book officers. They can and do use the dogs to search anything they want. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I will tell you with 100% certainty that when a k9 "hits" or "indicates" it is obvious. I train to have them sitz or platz. Handler or department preference. A handler saying a dogs licking, scratching, barking, etc.. is not considered a "hit" and should not a valid indication, that only shows lack of training IMHO. I have seen on shows blatant violation of constitutional rights on shows such as COPS and LivePD. Agencies of that size and sophistication literally shouldn’t exist. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 1:40:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agencies of that size and sophistication literally shouldn’t exist. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I will tell you with 100% certainty that when a k9 "hits" or "indicates" it is obvious. I train to have them sitz or platz. Handler or department preference. A handler saying a dogs licking, scratching, barking, etc.. is not considered a "hit" and should not a valid indication, that only shows lack of training IMHO. I have seen on shows blatant violation of constitutional rights on shows such as COPS and LivePD. Agencies of that size and sophistication literally shouldn’t exist. Correct. A department that size has absolutely no business even running a K9 and that should be left to the Sheriffs Dept. or State Police and called in as needed. A $75k dog has no business being in a town of 2-3000 people where the yearly cost of the dog is more than the yearly salary of the cop is. Starting salary in my state is roughly $60k for a city cop btw, and you will likely need 5-10 years on to get a K9. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 1:45:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hear malls are hiring ccw greeters........ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/135145/9grih6u8a9v71-2193230.jpg I was stopped by a gun dog at a mall. I showed them my LCT and the said have a good day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 1:48:21 PM EDT
[#30]
MJ being legal means they retire those dogs and get new ones that don't detect MJ as a hit.
/shrugs |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 2:01:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My understanding is they can smell propellant and gun shot residue. It would be interesting to play with one, and see the limits of its ability. What happens if you run a gun through an autoclave or ultrasonic cleaner multiple times, seal the ammo well, us BP ammo/mercuric primers, etc. For that matter, what happens if you put ammunition in a good vacuum chamber for a while to pull off all the vapor components, then seal it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hear malls are hiring ccw greeters........ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/135145/9grih6u8a9v71-2193230.jpg Do they hit on Hoppe and CLP? As for the other questions, I don't know. A friend now has a gun dog, but I haven't had an opportunity to test it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 2:03:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All drugs should be legal. End the nanny state. Ban narcan. Promote consequences for one's actions. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 2:04:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not replying to me, but I'll bite. Can a dog tell the difference between illicit methamphetamine and Desoxyn? Can a dog tell the difference between "CBD Full Flower Hemp" sprayed with THC Delta-8 concentrate and illicit cannabis? Honest questions here - I don't know. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I mean if the dog hits the officer has PC to enter a vehicle and if he finds nothing no harm no foul. Who says an officer can't train his dog to "hit" on order? Don't think for a minute this isn't happening. It is. I detest drug dealers but unethical law enforcement even more. "Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The dog can't tell you what type drug it hit on so the court should be able to issue a warrant as they can't describe what to seize. This would call into question all dog searches as their is no reason to believe that the drugs might have hit on a prescription. You're not replying to me, but I'll bite. Can a dog tell the difference between illicit methamphetamine and Desoxyn? Can a dog tell the difference between "CBD Full Flower Hemp" sprayed with THC Delta-8 concentrate and illicit cannabis? Honest questions here - I don't know. A dog that is trained to alert on the odor of marijuana will alert on CBD or Delta-8 producing plants because they are the same plant. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 5:13:46 PM EDT
[#34]
There was some questions on if the dogs will hit on prescriptions or not..
We have trained dogs with local drugs, as the drugs from other areas are mixed differently and will not always get a strong change of behavior. To the dog trainer who says the aggressive alert isn't an alert, its up to the original trainer and how they shaped the alerts.. If the dog was trained with an aggressive alert and then shaped it for a final response, SURE, its a legit final. There really is a bunch of MIS information out here.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 6:30:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they hit on Hoppe and CLP? Thought it was powder but I'm sure it's possible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 7:39:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thought it was powder but I'm sure it's possible. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do they hit on Hoppe and CLP? Thought it was powder but I'm sure it's possible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2021 8:00:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't hit on powder, they train with unloaded guns. They specifically don't want the dogs to hit on gunpowder as the response to a bomb dog alerting and a gun dog alerting is significantly different. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do they hit on Hoppe and CLP? Thought it was powder but I'm sure it's possible. Smokeless vs black powder. Black powder and synthetic explosives are what is used for bomb dogs. Smokeless powder is used as a proofing odor. Per the FBI and TSA training directive anyways from 5-6 years ago. May have been updated, I have not ordered the most recent one as I do not carry the bomb cert anymore. Was not worth it. TSA takes it to another level though with synthetic explosives. They will mix the ingredients (RDX and PETN) of semtex with wax, gasoline, you name it. They train with all sorts of masking odors.. They use the ingredients as opposed to the finished product to train. And they do not use intimidating looking dogs. Beagles and labs and such. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
