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Posted: 12/2/2021 12:40:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It had some of the worst gatekeeping of the firearms industry. If by gatekeeping you mean if someone came onto snipershide and asked what scope was best for their 'sniper rifle' or even used that term... Ya. That forum had a good sized community of actual mil/leo folks and didn't suffer newbies looking to feed a power fantasy. Kind of the same thing as light fighter around that time. Come in humble, looking to learn, and not talking like your some wanna-be-- it was all good. I should know, I got into precision rifles around 10 years ago and used that forum and Franks training videos as the basis of it. Never had a problem, but I saw plenty of people have them. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 8:36:18 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may be joking, but that is 100% how I entered shooting....at any distance. No friends or family, at the time, to work with so it was trial and a LOT of error. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Step 1: aquire long range target. Step 2: take a WAG at its distance. Step 3: take a WAG at bullet drop Step 4: shoot Step 5: take a WAG at how far off you are and adjust dope. Repeat steps 4 and 5 as required. Once target is hit you have unlocked the sniper badge. Congratulations!  I'm only half joking because this is how I started as well. Just kept notes on my dope and would then back calculate that into my shooting calculator to create a dope chart. Didn't even own a chrono until last year and still do my ranging using the reticle or an app. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 9:09:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Buy a kestrel and a magnetospeed.
Get Dope. True your data. Watch some videos from Phil Velayo (Modern Day Sniper) to get an idea about proper fundamentals. Dry fire alot to practice fundamentals. Go shoot at various distances. Learn wind, hardly anyone misses due to elevation screw ups anymore. Dry fire some more. Dry fire more. Shoot and learn wind. Go shoot Precision Rifle matches. You could also hit the easy button and take classes from a reputable instructor/school, then practice and dry fire. Not sure if I mentioned it before, but you should dry fire and learn wind. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 1:47:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How to shoot long range? Lots of trigger time and a lot of rounds downrange. A lot. Recycling dollars into skills |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 1:50:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Patchouli, Glad to see your out shooting. I need to get to Montana. Yes, you do.
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Posted: 12/2/2021 1:53:04 PM EDT
[#6]
I suppose you can learn to estimate range eventually.?
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Posted: 12/2/2021 1:57:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's stupid easy with good ballistics calculator if you have good inputs for the calculation. It's getting good inputs that most people don't understand and or can't get.  ETA: I would add to "good inputs" which I would boil down to location and weather, I'd add "consistent inputs" as well. From the shooter, and the weapon, to the ammo the entire system has to be as consistent as possible. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 2:01:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Patchouli
One of the finest 1K ranges in the country is in Missoula, the Deep Creek range. Get @jameydan your email so he can send you the match flyers. One of the bigger shoots is on Memorial Day week-end that has NRA Highpower on Sat, CMP EIC match Sun and 1K NRA match on Mon. Best match week-end in the State. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 2:58:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Patchouli One of the finest 1K ranges in the country is in Missoula, the Deep Creek range. Get @jameydan your email so he can send you the match flyers. One of the bigger shoots is on Memorial Day week-end that has NRA Highpower on Sat, CMP EIC match Sun and 1K NRA match on Mon. Best match week-end in the State. Oh sweet. I saw Townsend had one out to 1100 or something. Haven't made it there yet. Didn't know about the missoula one. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 3:00:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Patchouli, Glad to see your out shooting. I need to get to Montana. Yeah thanks. Did you leave the chop zone? You in the tejas now? |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 3:27:35 PM EDT
[#11]
What do you guys consider long range? Within my sport (NRA/CMP Service Rifle), anything out to 600 yards is not considered long range.
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Posted: 12/2/2021 3:40:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Thanks for sharing that. It's hard to find a youtube shooter who isn't a complete insufferable boob. He seems no-nonsense yet interesting. Subscribed.
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Posted: 12/2/2021 3:46:16 PM EDT
[#13]
I enjoy shooting long range with iron sights.
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Posted: 12/2/2021 3:53:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Elevation is Science....Wind is Voodoo.
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Posted: 12/2/2021 4:28:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Me: "ohhh, I want to shoot long range, I am going to carefully watch this video and take notes"
Also me: "Wait, what is that, he has gear videos!?!?!" I think the greatest takeaway from his videos is the paint being completely worn off his rifle in a few places. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 5:07:59 PM EDT
[#16]
I went ahead and hit that subscribe button...
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Posted: 12/2/2021 7:19:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Elevation is Science....Wind is Voodoo. VLD is Life |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 7:22:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What do you guys consider long range? Within my sport (NRA/CMP Service Rifle), anything out to 600 yards is not considered long range. Past 1450 is getting into ELR territory, and short actions start struggling. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 8:19:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went ahead and hit that subscribe button... Yeah, this thread might cost me money
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Posted: 12/2/2021 8:25:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/231690/6315C3E5-4048-4036-A950-45FFF334DD43_jpe-2188766.JPG I have this 10min up the road from me. Really haven’t used it as much as I would like to. ETA damn sideways pics That looks almost worth the year round cold temps. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 8:39:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Also this.  |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 8:53:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What do you guys consider long range? Within my sport (NRA/CMP Service Rifle), anything out to 600 yards is not considered long range. 600 is still “mid range” in HP. 1K is when you hit “long range”. Of course, the term is used looser in other disciplines. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 9:09:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Pretty funny that this thread is deep into page 2 and only 3 people have even mentioned the single most important aspect of long-range shooting:
Wind reading |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 9:15:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty funny that this thread is deep into page 2 and only 3 people have even mentioned the single most important aspect of long-range shooting: Wind reading |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 9:28:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How to shoot long range? Lots of trigger time and a lot of rounds downrange. A lot. That's how I taught myself . |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 9:31:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty funny that this thread is deep into page 2 and only 3 people have even mentioned the single most important aspect of long-range shooting: Wind reading One summer i setup my spotting scope to look out the window and "study" the wind. I would try to compare mirage to videos i watched and look at flags and whatnot. I could see for miles across the valley. I didnt really seem to learn anything. Seems hard. Is the only way to learn, to shoot in varying conditions while noting the observations? |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:21:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One summer i setup my spotting scope to look out the window and "study" the wind. I would try to compare mirage to videos i watched and look at flags and whatnot. I could see for miles across the valley. I didnt really seem to learn anything. Seems hard. Is the only way to learn, to shoot in varying conditions while noting the observations? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Pretty funny that this thread is deep into page 2 and only 3 people have even mentioned the single most important aspect of long-range shooting: Wind reading One summer i setup my spotting scope to look out the window and "study" the wind. I would try to compare mirage to videos i watched and look at flags and whatnot. I could see for miles across the valley. I didnt really seem to learn anything. Seems hard. Is the only way to learn, to shoot in varying conditions while noting the observations? This is going to sound weird as hell, but my $0.02. Grab a chair and go sit by a decent sized pond and watch the water for a bit. The first thing you will notice is it isn't moving the water the same anywhere but it tends to be cyclic. Ripples run perpendicular to the wind. Once that part makes sense it starts to make more sense on things like grass. You get a feel for how far leeward a tree or ridge affects the wind close to the ground. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:30:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Me: "ohhh, I want to shoot long range, I am going to carefully watch this video and take notes" Also me: "Wait, what is that, he has gear videos!?!?!" I think the greatest takeaway from his videos is the paint being completely worn off his rifle in a few places. Am loving the straight pull. Assuming an eight thousand dollar blaser.... |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:44:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One summer i setup my spotting scope to look out the window and "study" the wind. I would try to compare mirage to videos i watched and look at flags and whatnot. I could see for miles across the valley. I didnt really seem to learn anything. Seems hard. Is the only way to learn, to shoot in varying conditions while noting the observations? Go find a nice wide canyon, setup on top mid canyon, shoot cross canyon early am, early afternoon and late evening and pay attention what the grass is doing...  We have spots where you could place targets miles away from the shooter if you had enough cartridge to do it...  Attached File Attached FileThis is my all time favorite place to go shoot, my trapping cabin....  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:45:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Once a month I put on a Varmint Silhouette shoot out to 750 yards. I don't allow wind flags. I tell them they don't have a flag while hunting.
They have two and half minutes to shoot five targets between 276 and 750 and have to read the wind also. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:00:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah thanks. Did you leave the chop zone? You in the tejas now? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Patchouli, Glad to see your out shooting. I need to get to Montana. Yeah thanks. Did you leave the chop zone? You in the tejas now? Yes sir, traded the Chop Zone for a couple of acres in Texas and I ain’t looking back. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:24:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Pretty much all I shoot is Highpower, so all KD. Take it with the grain of salt it deserves.
I look at the forecasted wind via NOAA to give me a general idea of what to expect. At the range, prior to shooting, I'll watch the wind for any "cycles" it might have. Also, I'll watch range flags (primarily) as well as other indicators for wind direction so as to get the wind value (full value, 3/4, half, 1/4 value). I've got a wind meter to take some MPH guesswork out as well. *Not "long range," but an example of other indicators: during a 300 yard rapid fire string in HP XTC, should the range have an impact berm, I'll try to keep note of the dust coming up from the impacts. Of course that can be done at any range/distance as well. I watch mirage for changes in wind speed and/or a full directional shift. This can often be seen as the mirage running, say, right to left quickly, slowing down, boiling, changing to a left to right direction and whatever speed up from there (this example is most likely in a fishtail wind where the wind will change from a wind out of the right to a wind out of the left. . .sometimes quickly). In Highpower, watching the wind cycle gives you a chance to develop a strategy for wind shooting. You can shoot in a particular condition and if it changes, you can pause and wait for it to come back. You can shoot, making adjustments for each particular shot in conjunction with changes you observe with the wind indicators (mirage, flag, veg, etc). You can make an individual wind call for each shot. I had to do this at one match where we had a fishtailing wind blowing hard out of the south (north facing range). My experience at that match in the spoiler tag. Click To View Spoiler So, in a nutshell, there's different techniques for wind shooting, depending on what you're doing, again more Highpower based. A wind direction chart/wind rose can come in handy. I have made custom ones based upon my load data, but commercial ones will do as well. Gratuitous pic of my son shooting his 1st 1000 yard match this year. My rifle, right handed, while he's a southpaw.   Attached File |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:31:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every match I have shot is between 300 to 1450 yards. There are a few targets at a few venues that I shoot out to 2250. You'll see one mile at Western US matches frequently. Past 1450 is getting into ELR territory, and short actions start struggling. Speaking of really long ranges... There's a newish club in my state that goes out to a mile & my son and I are wanting to really stretch our legs. 1K is the farthest I've shot & hit, So...is there anything special I need to know to get from 1K to 1760? Is it worth even trying with a 6.5 Creedmore? |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:46:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speaking of really long ranges... There's a newish club in my state that goes out to a mile & my son and I are wanting to really stretch our legs. 1K is the farthest I've shot & hit, So...is there anything special I need to know to get from 1K to 1760? Is it worth even trying with a 6.5 Creedmore? If you have a Kestrel with Applied Ballistics, be sure to true your data to make consistent impacts at that distance. If you are using one of the phone apps like 4 DOF or Strelok, you'll need to true your data as well. I would spend the time to play around with BC on your chosen ballistics engine at the 800 yard target which should get you really close way out there, and fine tune it from there. I really advise a Kestrel 5700 series (either with 4DOF or AB) once you start shooting past medium range because the little stuff starts to stack up on you. You will also need a scope that has enough elevation to get there. I made that hit at 1790 with 23 mils of elevation (19.5 dialed in my NF ATACR 7-35x56. I ran out of elevation and had to use reticle) and holding 11.3 mils of wind. The cartridge is certainly capable, but not ideal. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 12:10:29 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, the Creed is capable at a mile. I made an impact at 1790 with a 6.5 Creed using 140 ELD-M handloads at 2850fps at a match this summer in 40mph winds. If you have a Kestrel with Applied Ballistics, be sure to true your data to make consistent impacts at that distance. If you are using one of the phone apps like 4 DOF or Strelok, you'll need to true your data as well. I would spend the time to play around with BC on your chosen ballistics engine at the 800 yard target which should get you really close way out there, and fine tune it from there. I really advise a Kestrel 5700 series (either with 4DOF or AB) once you start shooting past medium range because the little stuff starts to stack up on you. You will also need a scope that has enough elevation to get there. I made that hit at 1790 with 23 mils of elevation (19.5 dialed in my NF ATACR 7-35x56. I ran out of elevation and had to use reticle) and holding 11.3 mils of wind. The cartridge is certainly capable, but not ideal. Awesome. Thank you. I've been thinking about getting a kestrel for a bit now, but I have absolutely no idea how they work. Is there an online tutorial on the 5700, or any series, anywhere? |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 12:18:43 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Awesome. Thank you. I've been thinking about getting a kestrel for a bit now, but I have absolutely no idea how they work. Is there an online tutorial on the 5700, or any series, anywhere? Kestrel also does webinars quite a bit through the year, where you can ask questions during a livestream. Another resource is those of us that have used them for a while. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 4:18:48 AM EDT
[#37]
I’ve been missing the west a lot lately. This photo put a lump in my throat! Quoted: Yeah, Kestrel has tutorials on their page. Ryan Hey posts tutorials occasionally, and there's a ton over at the 'Hide. Kestrel also does webinars quite a bit through the year, where you can ask questions during a livestream. Another resource is those of us that have used them for a while. Kestrel has good on line classes. https://kestrelballistics.com/classes Their schoolhouse has a lot of information too. https://kestrelballistics.com/schoolhouse Don’t screw around, just get the 5700 Elite. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 5:07:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If by gatekeeping you mean if someone came onto snipershide and asked what scope was best for their 'sniper rifle' or even used that term... Ya. That forum had a good sized community of actual mil/leo folks and didn't suffer newbies looking to feed a power fantasy. Kind of the same thing as light fighter around that time. Come in humble, looking to learn, and not talking like your some wanna-be-- it was all good. I should know, I got into precision rifles around 10 years ago and used that forum and Franks training videos as the basis of it. Never had a problem, but I saw plenty of people have them. Same here. Learned a ton over there and still do. They don't suffer arrogant fools lightly. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 5:15:00 AM EDT
[#39]
Cool thread and video..
I really want to get in to long range, but funds are an issue (saving for a mortgage down payment). So I've been practicing the fundamentals out to 650 ish with 5.56. 55 grain can only get so far before it struggles though I've got my dope and windage down, can quickly read and estimate distance with the basic mil reticle in my 1-6, and I'm consistent at 500 yards. I need to get some heavier loads to work with and push that 5.56 as far as I can, and get consistent at 650 yards. But cheap ammo is cheap and let's me shoot more. I do have my old Savage model 11 in .308 I can work with. Been thinking of picking up an SWFA SS 10 power to start pushing it beyond the limited 3-9 that's been on it for years. That old Bushnell is muddier to look through than newer scopes, but the simple cross hair has been great for taking deer. If I enjoy that enough, I may consider rebarreling it to something heavier. Maybe even convert it to a 6.5 CM if it seems worth while. Probably the easiest way for me to get in to longer ranges |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 8:10:45 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, Kestrel has tutorials on their page. Ryan Hey posts tutorials occasionally, and there's a ton over at the 'Hide. Kestrel also does webinars quite a bit through the year, where you can ask questions during a livestream. Another resource is those of us that have used them for a while. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Awesome. Thank you. I've been thinking about getting a kestrel for a bit now, but I have absolutely no idea how they work. Is there an online tutorial on the 5700, or any series, anywhere? Kestrel also does webinars quite a bit through the year, where you can ask questions during a livestream. Another resource is those of us that have used them for a while. Thank you again. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 9:26:44 AM EDT
[#41]
I just bought a Kreiger straight taper 6mm barrel off the EE that I'm going to have spun up for my Terminus Zeus QC action. What do I want to chamber it in, 6mm Creedmoor or 6mm GT? I don't have a reloading set up so factory ammo is the main consideration. Hornady is doing a pre-order for their 109 gr. 6GT and 6CM is readily available from my local CO-OP to every gun shop and Sportsman's Warehouse.
Might also consider 6ARC but that seems like a waste of a good bolt barrel... |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 9:41:14 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just bought a Kreiger straight taper 6mm barrel off the EE that I'm going to have spun up for my Terminus Zeus QC action. What do I want to chamber it in, 6mm Creedmoor or 6mm GT? I don't have a reloading set up so factory ammo is the main consideration. Hornady is doing a pre-order for their 109 gr. 6GT and 6CM is readily available from my local CO-OP to every gun shop and Sportsman's Warehouse. Might also consider 6ARC but that seems like a waste of a good bolt barrel... |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 10:05:58 AM EDT
[#43]
Pppsssshhhh *finger snaps and neck jive*
Anyone can shoot long range easy peasy. I can even do it without a scope or sights.. Now hitting you're intended target on the other hand, that's another story! Ah yes I love being technically correct which is the best kind of correct. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 10:08:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're shooting PRS style matches I'd go with the GT or a 6BR variant. The 6 Creed will do fine, but it's burning more powder when speed isn't necessarily an asset. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I just bought a Kreiger straight taper 6mm barrel off the EE that I'm going to have spun up for my Terminus Zeus QC action. What do I want to chamber it in, 6mm Creedmoor or 6mm GT? I don't have a reloading set up so factory ammo is the main consideration. Hornady is doing a pre-order for their 109 gr. 6GT and 6CM is readily available from my local CO-OP to every gun shop and Sportsman's Warehouse. Might also consider 6ARC but that seems like a waste of a good bolt barrel... I've not done PRS in the past, but I'm heavily considering it now that I know how close K&M's facility is to me. If I can ever find powder, I'll get some cases to load my own 6GT. I have every other component but I haven't seen Varget or anything in 18 months or more. Until then, I think I'm leaning toward 6CM. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 10:16:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've not done PRS in the past, but I'm heavily considering it now that I know how close K&M's facility is to me. If I can ever find powder, I'll get some cases to load my own 6GT. I have every other component but I haven't seen Varget or anything in 18 months or more. Until then, I think I'm leaning toward 6CM. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 10:24:21 AM EDT
[#46]
@patchouli
What size target are you banging in the 6.5G vid? 10" or smaller I'm going to be impressed. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 10:28:02 AM EDT
[#47]
I don't click on videos posted here, but where I shoot wind is the tricky part. Shooting in a very irregular valley. A calm day gets great groups, but rarely get a calm day. So shoot an learn, repeat indefinitely.
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Posted: 12/3/2021 12:14:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @patchouli What size target are you banging in the 6.5G vid? 10" or smaller I'm going to be impressed. It was torso size. 18 x20 or soemthing. But it was cool. I could see the bullet trace and splash in each shot. Decided to keep speeding up to see if i could keep riding the recoil and maintain my sight pic. Which i did. Not sure why the last one went off to the left (saw the trail). Heavy ar 14 lbs. Bipod and rear bag. Jp tank brake. 12 x fixed swfa ss |
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Posted: 12/4/2021 6:45:51 PM EDT
[#49]
I got my 6.5CM Bartlein barrel for the Zeus QC action yesterday. Now to get to the range and get it broken in and zeroed. Just need the Area 419 Hellfire Match brake and the boomy part will be complete.
I have a Foundation stock on order but probably won’t see it until February. 
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Posted: 12/6/2021 9:55:10 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is going to sound weird as hell, but my $0.02. Grab a chair and go sit by a decent sized pond and watch the water for a bit. The first thing you will notice is it isn't moving the water the same anywhere but it tends to be cyclic. Ripples run perpendicular to the wind. Once that part makes sense it starts to make more sense on things like grass. You get a feel for how far leeward a tree or ridge affects the wind close to the ground. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pretty funny that this thread is deep into page 2 and only 3 people have even mentioned the single most important aspect of long-range shooting: Wind reading One summer i setup my spotting scope to look out the window and "study" the wind. I would try to compare mirage to videos i watched and look at flags and whatnot. I could see for miles across the valley. I didnt really seem to learn anything. Seems hard. Is the only way to learn, to shoot in varying conditions while noting the observations? This is going to sound weird as hell, but my $0.02. Grab a chair and go sit by a decent sized pond and watch the water for a bit. The first thing you will notice is it isn't moving the water the same anywhere but it tends to be cyclic. Ripples run perpendicular to the wind. Once that part makes sense it starts to make more sense on things like grass. You get a feel for how far leeward a tree or ridge affects the wind close to the ground. I don't think this is weird at all, it's a good tip. You can get a feel for wind direction *and* speed that way. |
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