Are Muslims learning? > General Discussion

Posted: 6/14/2004 1:28:41 PM EDT

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122608,00.html

Saudi Clerics Condemn Attacks Against Westerners
Monday, June 14, 2004

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — Six Saudi clerics once affiliated with Islamic militants — including two praised by Al Qaeda (search) leader Usama bin Laden in videotapes — have condemned recent attacks against Westerners in the kingdom, describing the perpetrators as "a deviant group."

The clerics, all of whom have served prison time for opposing the Saudi government, called the attacks "a heinous crime" in their statement issued Sunday. The official Saudi Press Agency reported on the statement — an unprecedented airing of known dissidents' remarks.

Saudi Arabia has witnessed several attacks in recent weeks against Westerners, the latest of which was the abduction of an American and threats to subject him to the same degrading punishment the U.S. military used on Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison (search).

On Monday, the daily Okaz, known for its close ties to the Interior Ministry, quoted unidentified sources as saying that Paul M. Johnson was drugged before his abduction Saturday. Johnson worked on the radar systems of Apache helicopters for the U.S. defense contractor Lockheed Martin (search).

Okaz quoted its sources as saying a syringe containing traces of an unspecified fluid was found next to Johnson's car.

On Saturday, American Kenneth Scroggs was shot as he parked in the garage at his home. On June 8, American Robert Jacobs also was killed in his parking garage. An Irish television cameraman was killed two days earlier and his British colleague was seriously wounded.

The attackers have not been caught.

U.S. Embassy officials were in contact with Saudi authorities to follow up on the investigations and were working with families of the American victims, a representative said.

"Conflicting reports seem to reflect the heightened state of tension and alert here," the representative said, referring to reports — later dismissed as false — that a Westerner's body was found.

At least two of the six clerics who signed the condemnation — Safar bin Abdul Rahman al-Hawali, and Salman al-Awdah — were believed to have been close to bin Laden in the past. Bin Laden was seen praising them in his videotapes a few years ago, thanking them for their support and for "enlightening" the Muslim youth.

They did not explain their reasons for joining the government in speaking out against terror attacks, even adopting the monarchy's description of attackers as "deviants."

"We condemn the criminal acts committed by the deviant group in a number of Saudi areas in which many innocent people were killed," their statement said.

"The nation's theologians are in consensus that it is a sin to kill a life without a right, be it Muslim or non-Muslim," it said, adding that such acts would divide Muslims "at a time ... when other nations are uniting against them."

It also warned against calling other Muslims "infidels." In statements posted on Islamic Web sites, suspected Al Qaeda members have accused the Saudi government of being un-Islamic and allying itself with "infidels" — a reference to the United States and other Western countries.

Several of the clerics were unavailable for comment Monday.

The U.S. Embassy has warned the attacks appeared to follow extensive surveillance of the victims, and an online statement purportedly by Al Qaeda said Saturday's killing came after monitoring the victim.

"Often, this pre-attack surveillance can be detected," the U.S. Embassy said in a message detailing safety precautions for citizens.

In its statement about Johnson's abduction, the group said it would release a videotape with his confession and its demands.

Such a tape had not surfaced by Monday, but promises of it sparked calls on militant Islamic Web sites for suggestions on what those demands should include. Contributors to one forum also urged the kidnappers to debrief Johnson on Apache technology and other Lockheed Martin secrets.

The statement claiming Saturday's shooting and kidnapping was signed by Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the same group that claimed responsibility for the May 29-30 shooting spree and hostage-taking in the eastern Saudi oil hub of Khobar that killed 22 people, mostly foreigners.

Saudi Arabia relies heavily on foreign workers in its energy and service sectors. The U.S. Embassy has advised Americans to leave the kingdom, and the British Embassy on Sunday said it was authorizing the voluntary departure of nonessential staff and their families.

Does this mean that muslims are beginning to learn that they must distance themselves from the Al Quaeda types if they don't want to be associated with them? That'd be a nice change!

Posted: 6/14/2004 1:30:32 PM EDT

[#1]

dunno if they 'are' learning...but, some of them soon 'will' be learning...thanks to uncle sam.

Posted: 6/14/2004 1:34:45 PM EDT

[#2]

Wish I could link to the video of the RPG guy that is in the other thread.

He's been educated.

Posted: 6/14/2004 1:37:27 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Wish I could link to the video of the RPG guy that is in the other thread.

He's been educated.

And it wasn't the tracers. His education came a few short moments afterwards.

Posted: 6/14/2004 1:38:50 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Wish I could link to the video of the RPG guy that is in the other thread.

He's been educated.

You mean this fucktard? He learned really well, and hopefully our boys will be spreading this lesson around a bit.

perso.wanadoo.es/iraqshot/iraqi%20shot%20650%20frames.avi

perso.wanadoo.es/iraqshot/iraqi%20shot%20slomo%20zoom.avi

Posted: 6/14/2004 1:57:04 PM EDT

[#5]

Surah 9:5 Kill the infidels wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every manner of trickery and deceit. (Including making them think that you come in peace.)

Surah 5:51 "O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Surah 8:60 "Against them (infidels) make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Surah 9:29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Are Muslims Learning? Yes, they're learning to blow-smoke in our ear and make us feel good as they lead us to the slaughter. Anyone who says that Islam is a peaceful religion is either a liar or an idiot.

Posted: 6/14/2004 2:02:01 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Wish I could link to the video of the RPG guy that is in the other thread.

He's been educated.

You mean this fucktard? He learned really well, and hopefully our boys will be spreading this lesson around a bit.

perso.wanadoo.es/iraqshot/iraqi%20shot%20650%20frames.avi

perso.wanadoo.es/iraqshot/iraqi%20shot%20slomo%20zoom.avi

Nice grouping there, soldier!

Posted: 6/14/2004 2:04:52 PM EDT

[#7]

Let's hope...

Even so, it's about F'ING TIME!

Posted: 6/14/2004 2:09:03 PM EDT

[#8]

A little fucking late. Just last week there was a plea to al-Qaeda to "come to its senses" prompted by all the terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia. See everything al-Qaeda did before was fine and understandable. When they start operating in the Kingdom, well that's a whole nother ball of wax.

Posted: 6/14/2004 2:21:49 PM EDT

[#9]

They just need a little therapy, .45 therapy

Posted: 6/14/2004 2:34:31 PM EDT

[#10]

Sounds like good PR to me. It'd be nice if it were true, don't get me wrong.

I just ain't to where I can trust any of those fuckers yet.

Posted: 6/14/2004 2:41:20 PM EDT

[#11]

I find myself unimpressed or expecting anything positive. I must be cynical?

Posted: 6/14/2004 2:45:05 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I find myself unimpressed or expecting anything positive. I must be cynical?

If you are we're riding in the same boat...

Posted: 6/14/2004 2:54:39 PM EDT

[#13]

FWIW, I'm not expecting anything to come out of this -- the muslim bashers will continue to say we should nuke 'em all, the muslims will all say they're being misrepresented, and the apologists will contine to say that the muslims are just doing what they feel needs to be done and that us evil Americans are to blame.

I think Raven has it exactly right

See everything al-Qaeda did before was fine and understandable. When they start operating in the Kingdom, well that's a whole nother ball of wax.

I say was should nuke the saudis and iran, let our friends in kuwait enjoy a larger country, and GET ME SOME CHEAP GASOLINE!

Posted: 6/14/2004 2:59:25 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
FWIW, I'm not expecting anything to come out of this -- the muslim bashers will continue to say we should nuke 'em all, the muslims will all say they're being misrepresented, and the apologists will contine to say that the muslims are just doing what they feel needs to be done and that us evil Americans are to blame.

I'd say you have all of that right.

And I'm in for the cheap gasoline!

Posted: 6/14/2004 3:04:25 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Surah 9:5 Kill the infidels wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every manner of trickery and deceit. (Including making them think that you come in peace.)

Surah 5:51 "O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Surah 8:60 "Against them (infidels) make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Surah 9:29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Are Muslims Learning? Yes, they're learning to blow-smoke in our ear and make us feel good as they lead us to the slaughter. Anyone who says that Islam is a peaceful religion is either a liar or an idiot.

The first step is understanding your adversary, and most people are still rationalizing their denial rather than acknowledge the truths you've posted here.

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