Posted: 5/31/2004 4:47:28 AM EDT
Just got this in an email:
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www.snopes.com/military/flagfold.htm Traditional How to fold the flag flag etiquette prescribes that before an American flag is stored or presented, its handlers should twice fold it in half lengthwise; then (from the end opposite the blue field) make a triangular fold, continuing to fold it in triangles until the other end is reached. This makes a triangular "pillow" of the flag with only the blue starred field showing on the outside, and it takes thirteen folds to produce: two lengthwise folds and eleven triangular ones. The American flag isn't folded in this manner because the thirteen folds correspond to the original thirteen states, or because the folding produces a shape resembling a cocked hat, or because each of the folds has a special symbolic meaning. The flag is folded this way simply because it provides a dignified ceremonial touch that distinguishes folding a flag from folding an ordinary object such as a bedsheet, and because it results a visually pleasing, easy-to-handle shape. That this process requires thirteen folds is coincidental, not the product of design. An even more elaborate flag folding ceremony has since been devised for special occasions such as Memorial Day and Veterans Day, one which incorporates the association of particular symbolic meanings with each fold of the flag. These associations are "real" in the sense that they mean something to the people who participate in the ceremony, but they are not the reason why a flag is folded in the traditional thirteen-step manner. As was the case with the candy cane, an invented (religious) symbolism has become so widespread that it is now often mistakenly assumed to have been an integral part of the origins of the item it is associated with. |
Thanks. |
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Flight 587, I don't have a clue. Flight 800? I don't think one missle would take down a 747. Especially if it were a heat seeker. It would have to be one, well placed radar missle too. Arent most anti-aircraft missles proximity type detonations? wrong thread damn you!!!!! 
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The story I had heard about the 21 gun salute is that the seven gun salute was used to bury the dead at sea. Personally I think the 21 gun salute is not American only. But since land fortresses have 3X the amount of powder, 21 gun salutes were used on land. The story seems dubious now. I would guess any of our Navy guys here could tell if they use a 21 gun or a 7 gun salute on board. |
Wrong thread? 
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21 gun salutes are reserved for heads of state and the dead. At burials at sea we'll have seven sailors or marines armed with rifles who fire a three round volley each. Upon entering a port or meeting a foriegn ship at seas the batteries of canons were emptied as a sign of trust. I've heard told the flag resembles the old three point hats of long ago. |
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Practice Of Firing The 21 Gun Salute: The 21 Gun Salute originated in the old custom of halting the fighting to remove the dead from the battlefield. Once each army had cleared it's dead, it would fire three volleys to indicate that the dead had been cared for and they were ready to go back to the fight. The origin and meaning of firing three volleys of musketry at the grave side do not appear to have been established beyond question. Fortescue (vol I, p 90) states that "the musketeers fired three volleys over it (the corpse) in the name of the Trinity" - this in reference to the sixteenth century. Referring again to the burial in London of Sir Philip Sidney, the account states that "Rounds of small shot were thrice fired by all men present and from the great ordnance on the walls two volleys were discharged as the corpse was taken from the shore", in Holland to the ship; and at the London burial "a double volley of shot from the churchyard informed the world outside that Sir Philip Sidney had been buried." However, three volleys seem to have been the usual custom from the seventeenth century onwards, and might possible have had their origin in the pre-Christian-era practice when the pagan warriors cremated their dead comrades. At these ceremonials they rode on horseback round the burning pyre three times. Originally the volleys were fired inside the church, but the smoke and noise soon caused that practice to cease. The use of gun salutes for military occasions is traced to early warriors who demonstrated their peaceful intentions by placing their weapons in a position that rendered them ineffective. Apparently this custom was universal, with the specific act varying with time and place, depending on the weapons being used. A North African tribe, for example, trailed the points of their spears on the ground to indicate that they did not mean to be hostile. The tradition of rendering a salute by cannon originated in the 14th century as firearms and cannons came into use. Since these early devices contained only one projectile, discharging them once rendered them ineffective. Originally warships fired seven-gun salutes--the number seven probably selected because of its astrological and Biblical significance. Seven planets had been identified and the phases of the moon changed every seven days. The Bible states that God rested on the seventh day after Creation, that every seventh year was sabbatical and that the seven times seventh year ushered in the Jubilee year. Land batteries, having a greater supply of gunpowder, were able to fire three guns for every shot fired afloat, hence the salute by shore batteries was 21 guns. The multiple of three probably was chosen because of the mystical significance of the number three in many ancient civilizations. Early gunpowder, composed mainly of sodium nitrate, spoiled easily at sea, but could be kept cooler and drier in land magazines. When potassium nitrate improved the quality of gunpowder, ships at sea adopted the salute of 21 guns. The 21-gun salute became the highest honor a nation rendered. Varying customs among the maritime powers led to confusion in saluting and return of salutes. Great Britain, the world's preeminent seapower in the 18th and 19th centuries, compelled weaker nations to salute first, and for a time monarchies received more guns than did republics. Eventually, by agreement, the international salute was established at 21 guns, although the United States did not agree on this procedure until August 1875. The gun salute system of the United States has changed considerably over the years. In 1810, the "national salute" was defined by the War Department as equal to the number of states in the Union--at that time 17. This salute was fired by all U.S. military installations at 1:00 p.m. (later at noon) on Independence Day. The President also received a salute equal to the number of states whenever he visited a military installation. In 1842, the Presidential salute was formally established at 21 guns. In 1890, regulations designated the "national salute" as 21 guns and redesignated the traditional Independence Day salute, the "Salute to the Union," equal to the number of states. Fifty guns are also fired on all military installations equipped to do so at the close of the day of the funeral of a President, ex-President, or President-elect. Today the national salute of 21 guns is fired in honor of a national flag, the sovereign or chief of state of a foreign nation, a member of a reigning royal family, and the President, ex-President and President-elect of the United States. It is also fired at noon of the day of the funeral of a President, ex-President, or President-elect. Gun salutes are also rendered to other military and civilian leaders of this and other nations. The number of guns is based on their protocol rank. These salutes are always in odd numbers. Sequence of Events for an Army Honors Funeral At Arlington National Cemetery * The caisson or hearse arrives at grave site, everyone presents arms. * Casket team secures the casket, NCOIC, OIC and chaplain salute. * Chaplain leads the way to grave site, followed by casket team. * Casket team sets down the casket and secures the flag. * The NCOIC ensures the flag is stretched out and level, and centered over the casket. * NCOIC backs away and the chaplain, military or civilian, will perform the service. * At conclusion of interment service and before benediction, a gun salute is fired for those eligible ( i.e. general officers). * Chaplain concludes his service and backs away, NCOIC steps up to the casket. * The NCOIC presents arms to initiate the rifle volley. * Rifle volley complete, bugler plays "Taps." * Casket-team leader starts to fold the flag. * Flag fold complete, and the flag is passed to the NCOIC, OIC. * Casket team leaves grave site. * NCOIC, OIC either presents the flag to the next of kin, or if there is a military chaplain on site he will present the flag to the chaplain, and then the chaplain will present to the next of kin. * Arlington Lady presents card of condolences to the next of kin. * The only person remaining at the grave is one soldier, the vigil. His mission is to watch over the body until it is interred into the ground. |
Yeah I think so. |
Never seen that, but it was awfully cool of those guys to do that. |
They did it for my Uncle (26 yr, USN Master Chief, WWII Vet). They inserted the spent casings inside the final fold of the flag and presented the flag to my Aunt. Also, my Father still has the casings from when my Grandfather died over 50yrs ago (WWI Navy Vet), so it has been part of the Navy Honor Ceremony for at least that long. |
Thanks! That explains the 30.06 casings in my Grandfathers flag that I have. Dad and Grandpa (WWI) were in the Corp, and at Dads service there were Marines and LEO. |
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As an aside, when folding a flag that has been covering a casket, (burial colors), it requires an extra fold as it is of a different size ratio. You begin by folding lengthwise twice, as usual, but then make a rectangular fold of 6", then make a triangular fold by turning up the right corner, so the point will be on the left side. Yes, I've had the honor of performing this task. It is one I would be glad to never have to repeat. 
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