[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Renew the draft?? (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 5/18/2004 4:32:48 PM EDT
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Do you support renewing the draft now? Yes? No? Why? I'm curios as to what the arfcom opinion is on this. Hoppy  8420
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I do not support renewing the draft. As hard as our forces are streched right now, and as much as we could use the people, I think it would be counter-productive. Right now we have a highly motivated volunteer Army, and I think that we will lose that with a reinstated draft. I think that a few highly motivated soldiers are a much better thing than a larger group that are counting the days and pissed off at the world. I think the armed forces would suffer a large morale drop, as well as the homeland. It's a hard job right now, but I am of the opinion that we are capable of doing it without causing a big disruption in society like reinstatement of the draft. |
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NO. Even though many people could seriously use some kicking into shape, a forced-service army isn't as effective one-for-one as a voulenteer army. Exception being in any nationalistic society in a country that's in a tight spot (IE: most countries in WW2, Israel (now), etc..), although though in this case it's generally more of an excuse for the average joe to drop his current responsibilities and go kick some ass. Now, if this happened right after 9-11, when people would accept this, it would be somewhat effective. |
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IMO, The main reason many here support the draft is in their belief that everyone who is forced into compulsory military service will come out JUST LIKE THEM, i.e. unconditional supporter of the gop and religious christian conservative. Then there are those want the draft as a means of punishment for kids who dress, talk or act outside of "acceptible parameters" of being an unconditional supporter of the gop and religious christian conservative. All of the talk about "it will do them good" only applies to kids who WANT to be changed and have no other alternatives. Oh yes and this is NOT israel, no matter how much people want to compare them to the U.S. That is my take on it. |
? Better they come out a GOP Christian Conservative, or just conservative, than a left wing liberal wimp. And who said anything about being an unconditional supporter of anything? On the contrary, most conservatives put a lot more common sense and logic into views and opinions than any liberal ( read: emotional reactivist) that I've ever met. It also looks like most here don't support a new draft. However, if parents dont instill a sense of service and patriotism in children it may be necessary in the future. As far as this not being Israel, maybe not, but they are doing the best they can with what they have, as are we. |
Number one The economy, a lot of young people would not be in the man power pool pay would go up, jobs would becomne available number two it would make men out of a lot of mammas boys, who when they were discharge would be able to lead this country in a good direction. number three everyone would contribute to the safty of our nation, no slack for the slackards. it is a long list and I am tired. Someone else chip in. |
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No. It's ridiculous. No one with any clue wants it. The military doesn't want it...they know that an all-volunteer military allows them much better trained and motivated men and women. The people don't want it...they like having an all-volunteer military. The government doesn't want it---it makes using military force almost impossible. Only the Democrats and their useful idiots are speaking out in favor of it...because they are using the issue as a club. |
I agree with you in that we don't need it but current enlistments are not where some would like to see them. They aren't up enough for what America has going on right now. Besides Afghanistan & Iraq we are involved in 12 other "peace keeping missions" around the world. Funny how these bills were sponsored by democrats Rangel (NY) and Hollings (SC) 
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Maybe YOU aren't "deserving of existence", you simpering turd. -- Draft - Unnecessary. Not needed. Forces aren't 'stretched'. Enlistments are at 30-yr highs. RE-enlistments (even within units who've already been deployed to the Iraqi theatre) are ALSO at decades-high rates. If you don't believe those things, I invite you to do a little research, you'll find they are all true. If you weren't aware of those factoids, I invite you to re-consider your choice in news / information sources. The propagandists on the left have been playing on the paranoia of their Useful Idiots, shaking the 'Draft' ju-ju beads every chance an AP / Reuters news story gives them a plausible chance to. That noise is echoed by turds like Charlie Rangel and other (D)s for partisan political purposes in an election year. That combined with the regular parade of children that wet themselves on their 18th birthdays when they have to fill out the Selective Service form, AND the knee-jerk response of the FedGov-Phobics is what gives this Dracula of topics its undying strength. |
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8420
The reason the military makes men out of mammas boys is because they are voluntarily enlisting. If someone who doesn't want to serve, is forced into service, mamma's boy or not, he is going to be counter-productive, and he is not going to come out the same way a volunteer soldier will. In all likelihood, he will be left-wing, hate and blame the government for putting him through the shit of basic training, and getting shot at. Military training is not some magic box that cranks out hooah, hardcore, patriotic soldiers no matter what you feed it. Want some evidence? John Kerry. |
Well, obviously those two boneheads democrats, Rangel (NY) and Hollings (SC), don't think they are or they wouldn't have sponsored these idiotic bills.  I'm with you man, I think it's stupid but people need to be aware that these assclowns are pushing for a full fledge draft of 18-25 year olds. The real reason they are doing it is to scare the sheep into thinking Bush has pushed us too far and because of that they will get drafted and sent off to war. They are hoping to turn this into votes for Kerry, that's all. |
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Oh come on guys, there are a million reasons why or why not without resorting to draftees screw up the military. That makes about as good an argument as our soldiers now only are in the military cause they can't find a job elsewhere or just want the education benifits. Both arguments are bullshit. Some of the best soldiers I served with were drafted many with degrees and some of the finest doctors were drafted. Most of our WWII veterans were drafted. Some of the biggest dipshits I ever knew were lifers but also some of the finest men I ever knew were. Likewise much of our present day military are there because they like the life and want to serve not just get a college fund or can't find a job in the real world. The ARFCOM all encompassing swipe of of the magic generalization wand strikes again. Tj |
That must be why they have civilians on ships and in other places By people if you mean draft age men ------ well yes duh. That must be why there are bills to introduce it |
Your talking a peace time army that is serving right now. During war enlistments are down. |
You are an ass. A socialist one at that.
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Aw zippy don't be to hard on the kid. |
Nice personal attacks. Why don't we try sticking to logic here, ok? Draft is, in many cases, involuntary servitude. Well - we made slavery illegal. Sorry, but I don't see forcing people to do a certain (dangerous) task within the just authority of the government. Would I be a draft-dodger? No. But would I support a draft, EVER? No. |
I must say I am shocked at your attitute. Surprised to say the least. |
No, that would be a decision by politicians, not by the military. If the politicians would fund the extra personnell, the military could (and has, in the 80s) recruit them without need for a draft.
And women. And their parents, and their friends. EVERYONE. With a brain.
Yes, the liberals using it as a political hammer is INDEED why there are bills to introduce it. |
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I don't know where you heard that civilians on ships equate to low enlistment / re-enlistment rates in the Navy. How about deaaling in facts. Issue Date: May 24, 2004 http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=0-NAVYPAPER-2903677.php Personnel chief looks ahead to leaner Navy By Troy Moon Gannett News Service The Navy is moving to a force that will be smaller but better-trained and better-equipped than today’s fleet, said Chief of Naval Personnel Vice Adm. Gerald Hoewing. “Our Navy will have less people in the future,” Hoewing said May 7 during the Naval Aviation Symposium at the National Museum of Naval Aviation in Pensacola, Fla. “One of our challenges is to make sure we have the force shaped to what the real jobs are out there in the fleet.” Hoewing said the Navy is looking to eliminate some low-content jobs and to outsource some military jobs to contractors and other civilians. These personnel cuts, he said, will allow the Navy to better pursue new technology and training for the Navy of tomorrow. “We want to make sure we have our military people doing military-essential work,” Hoewing said. “We are [currently] doing some military-to-civilian conversions in the medical field. At the same time, through other initiatives, and through better business practices, we’re eliminating work.” Vice Adm. Michael Malone, commander, Naval Air Force, U.S. Pacific Fleet, said the restructuring is part of “the business of naval aviation.” Leaner force President Bush’s fiscal 2005 defense budget, submitted Feb. 2, included end-strength reductions that will help create the smallest U.S. Navy since the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. End strength fell from 376,000 in fiscal 2002 to 373,800 in fiscal 2004. The total will fall to 365,900 in fiscal 2005 and, by fiscal 2008, will hit 357,200 — the fewest enlisted sailors and officers since 1941.Higher levels of retention among enlisted sailors and officers in the Navy have reduced the need to recruit sailors for the future. “Our re-enlistment rates are the highest we’ve seen,” Hoewing said, noting that retention rates have risen to 62 percent, up from 38 percent just 10 years ago. “People are competing to get in the U.S. Navy and competing to stay in the U.S. Navy, because we believe we are becoming an employer of choice.” Those who stay will receive more training, Hoewing said, especially officers who would benefit from higher training to augment current skills. “Our naval aviation career path … is an extremely full career,” Hoewing said. “Between sea duty and shore duty and staff jobs, wedging in the opportunity for education has been difficult in the past. We’re going to make that a higher priority so that our officers have the requisite skills and education to continue and be better business managers and leaders at the senior level.”
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Get over yourself. I'm talking about you, Cyanide.
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This is a non-issue. Questions: As it stands, one must be a High School graduate, to enter military service. Would a draft LOWER this standard? Or would merely dropping out of HS be the way to avoid service? If so, how exactly does this aid our servicemen? Only a Liberal idiot would suggest that a totally voluntary military is "unfair".... ...and that the way to be "fair", is to have forced conscription. Talk about Orwellian. Voluntary service is UNJUST. Forced CONSCRIPTION is JUST. They actually believe this. Stupid hippies. |
Do you even fucking read or do you just blindly post this bullshit? NOT ONE person before you posted agreed that there should be a draft, not one. Where the fuck to you get "most" from? Anyone who disagrees with you is an "unconditional supporter of the GOP", blah, blah, blah. You prove every time you post that you never have an original thought, just what John Kerry tells you. You always whine about "ad hominem" attacks, but you are the one who is most guilty of it. You spout the same old worn out drivel in every thread, whether it is even on topic or not. You attack many with your sweeping FALSE generalizations and then whine when someone smacks you. What a fucking baby you are. And this is not about Israel either. Damn, you even have to get in a swipe at them. You are truly pathetic. |
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This is probably the only time I have ever agreed with Cyanide,as we are useing National Guard to fight this war,it was tried in Korea and I quess untill it is stopped we will keep on doing it now! Great don't draft 18 year olds,just quit sending mothers and daughters to fight the mens wars for us! Sniper when you turn 18 you should have a National debt to serve towards your country,just as I had,and every other man did! Six years in my case 3 years active and 3 years inactive reserve! What makes you think you should have any less debt to pay for your country? You sound as if you think you have no debt to pay for this freedom that you live under! Should my 23 year old daughter go back time and again as a reserve because you have no taste for this honour? Will you be content to ride the wave of freedom that is won and lost by many a mans sons and daughters? That is what it sounds like! Bob 
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Sure, force someone into involuntary servitude (aka slavery) in order to pay for freedom? Do you realize just how messed up that is? Sure, we have many people that gave their lives to thank for our continued freedom. However, "freedom isn't free" is just a saying. Doesn't make it true. As an American, you have the right to be free. From a Christian point of view, you have the God given right of freedom as a human being. No debt need be paid. That's the whole point of freedom. |
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How old are you twelve? How do you think this country has handled this before? No wonder we are a country of wussies if that is the way you think of the draft! If thats the way you and your generation want to think of it Okay! Then you should get lesser quarters of everything ,justice(since you don't care to try and earn it) peace(cause god knows you don't want to be enslaved to fight for it) and really you talk bad about the French but the resistance fighters have more balls than you ever had! God I don't believe you really have posted what you have said! You have slammed every man and woman that has ever died to make this country free! That you would think that asking your generation to stand up to the plate and take this country into battle to save this country and presserve this freedom is enslavement!!! You have spit in my face,and all my brouthers faces and I think you find when all us old warriours are gone it will be just punks like you who will keep this nation strong ! Good thing us old folks with sound roots will still be around to keep this country strong! You punks will knuckle down real quick like! Bob 
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Preach on. You speak truths. |
I hope your still seeing halos at night.............. 
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I probably have no right to say this, as there wasn't even a draft registration mechanism for me to register when I was 18 (1975). I've never served in the military, but have the utmost respect for those who have, and in my own way I've tried to compensate for my non military service by being a cop for the last 25 years, although I don't think a career in law enforcement rises to the level of sacrifice that military enlistment does. With the aformentioned preface, I believe that a draft would be GOOD for this country. I've seen the gangbangers and the slackers hanging out on the street, dealing dope, knocking up their "babies mommas" multiple times, and basically being a drag on society. I've always thought that some of these young men, taken out of their environment unvoluntarily and scrubbed up and given responsibility, could rise to the occasion and better themselves and their country. Same with the soft little biffs & chips out there that have never had their hands dirty-who knows what their potential is. I realize that the military ain't a social program and isn't responsible for babysitting generation X. I recognize that the military would get a lot of deadbeats with a draft. I also know that this countrys wars have never been won with professional standing armies-history shows that in the US, the standing army holds the line until the citizen soldier comes off his railroad job, or his truck driving job, or whatever he's doing, and assists the standing army. My dad was 32 when he was DRAFTED in WW2, and acquited himself well. Would he have volunteered at his age? I doubt it, but we'll never know. I think, although I'm Mr Cynic to those that know me personally, that the cross section of the American populace has the temerity to do the right think, if prodded and pushed. If this country instituted a draft and mobilized, we'd be the most formidible force in the modern world, and maybe by doing so our enemies around the globe might just blink and get their minds right. But then again, I could be wrong. |
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Actually Ryann, mandatory service in lieu of jail time for non-violent crime was the norm during my service. Some of the guys were resentful and not worth a shit while others it changed their lives and were some of the best guys you could want to watch your six. This option either or Military or Jail, IMHO should not have been dropped even if the draft was. Tj BTW, the comment freedom is free, for Gods sake kid open a history book sometime. |
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"Actually Ryann, mandatory service in lieu of jail time for non-violent crime was the norm during my service".......Thomas Jefferson I agree that this program should never have been taken away. I'm no liberal at all, but you take a guy that say writes a bad check, or DWI, or likes to bar fight, he's ain't necessarily public enemy #1, and he could do well in another environment. Some of these gang bangers that I've seen would probably make excellant SF soldiers or SEALS. |
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Bush would never want to reinstate the draft. It's too easy for him to continue deficit spending and hire out mercenary troops. When they do this, it also conveniently skirts the Geneva Convention rules. Why start a draft when we can pay private troops to go torture Iraqis? Doesn't make any sense. |
 This has to be one of the top 10 stupidest things ever posted on this site! Of course, we expect nothing less from a DU troll. You sheep kill me!
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