Posted: 5/16/2004 4:06:47 PM EDT
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I am ready to leave the funshow today and I get a wild burr up my ass. I agree 110% that all guns should be quick tied. Read all guns. As I am leaving I see two local officers walking through with, you guessed it, loaded holstered guns. I expect my .gov to not trust me with guns. I am a threat to them having free run over me and my country. I do not expect my State RKBA Association that I finance to have the same mental opinion that they are any more free or responsible or whatever than I am. I expect all men to be treated the same, period. Am I wrong to think they are no better than I am. That ALL guns in a funshow should be ziptied? If they do not want to disarm, maybe they should come back after they are off work. We have show security. Imagine me thinking I am free and equal to a .gov.  How dare I.... What say you? |
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Same as a shoot/range/grocery store. CC Sidearm rules vary, but yes, all guns out in open/handled/could be handled should be flagged. GunStock was all sidearms cold. BulletFest was sidearm ok, just don't be touchin it. (IIRC) If no CC is allowed, I don't think anybody else should have special privileges, unless they are there due to a call (i.e. theft, etc.) |
You forgot self protection, they could be attacked by the attack lap dog that belongs to one of the vendors........you know the type-the little old lady who watches over the table while her husband is over buying kettlecorn & a coke. She never knows what's what & can't haggle on prices. |
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I'll play devils advocate here and say how does security know that the cops are only at the fairgrounds to go into the show? I'll also add that I just read the WAC rules of the road and I don't see an exception to rule #3 for law enforcement. It just goes to once again prove that: "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" |
Insurance, insurance, insurance. I'm guessing that this is why they do this. Something happens with an officer inside and, sadly, it's probably more acceptable for the insurer than having some show attendee do something stupid. We're all punished unfortunately for what a few incompetent idiots do.
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I can see you know your way around gunshows! |
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If they're on duty, they can't be asked to disarm or render their firearms cold. Scenario: Lot's of "gun nuts" hate cops. (We've seen that here)...What if these guys, in uniform, were to disarm and some idiot decided to start some shit with them and it got ugly? The uniform is kind of a billboard. And, because they are wearing it, they could be called "on duty" in a seconds notice if something happens...Now, if they were off duty in civvy's, I can understand. |
How about if they are on duty go patrol the city they get paid to protect. Gunshows are more often than not overloaded with law obiding citizens, those with membership here OR CCW all have prints onfile and background checks. They will not find many bad guys here, any that are our severely outnumbered. If they want to come to a funshow, be off duty and obey the rules. WAC does have rules, gun=tied. Period. |
Ok..Devils advocate here..What if the gunshow was/is in their patrol area and it was their lunch break, they wanted to see the cool stuff because THEY like guns too....Like MANY cops here. Just a thought... |
1) pay admisson or show membership badge. 2) realize that the gunshow is private property, its does not endow special .gov powers like the law of the land, they are not above the rules placed on the rest of the mere mortals and be prepared to be disarmed. Rules are rules, we the RKBA group already do not like the .gov placing them above us in the laws. Now we have placed them above us. |
Ummmm your wrong. If the show is on private property (including public property leased by the show owner) the police have no right to go onto the property at all barring permission from the promoter or probably cause. Cops in hospitals for treatment surrender their firearms ALL THE TIME at the request of staff. They can comply or leave just like everyone else. |
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And I see we have the unclear with the concept guys chiming in with CCW commentary. Since when do uniformed LEO equate with CCW??? In any case the show belongs to the guy that runs it. It's his party and if you don't like the way he runs it, you can go home and cry to your wife, to a bar and cry to the guys or come here and cry. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference, except here you got a better chance of having more people cry along with you and the guys that disagree, snort at the concept and move on. Let take a another look at the unequal application or applicability of gun laws whine from a slightly different but similar set of circumstances. "My City/State has limited CCW, but allows property or business owners to carry on property but they are allowed to forbid it to me. I expect I expect all men to be treated the same, period. Am I wrong to think they are no better than I am. That |
UMMMMM your wrong, cops can go anywhere anyone else can go. And I would not surrender my firearm to go into a hospital for treatment unless I was going to be unconcious and then I would only give it to my wife or another cop. |
yup I think if you were right the guy at the door would have done something about it. Most police forces have regs that state if the cop is in uniform he must be ready to enforce the law. Now how can he do that with a zip tied pistol. My CCW is not zip tied either. |
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How dare you assume you are equal, CavVet!!! You are just a "civilian". Good Lord, I HATE it when that INCORRECT term is used to diferentiate leo from non-leo. What branch? Rating/MOS? Rate/Rank? Oh... officer Jones isn't in the military? Then he's a CIVILIAN!!! = a non-military member of society |
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if it were up to me, all men would be armed at all times, but since it is most likely up to an insurance company whether or not that show is held, and they stipulate the rules, if cops are an exception, great, then that is just that many more people in the local that are armed. Therefore less likely that some idjet will try to do harm to some other idjet..... is it right that you are not allowed to go armed in that venue, NO. is it fair that police officers are afforded greater latitude than you, NO. am I happy that they can skirt the rules, and stay armed, HELL YES. a sword in its scabbard, oftentimes keeps another there...... the more swords the better. quote by Ben Franklin.... Pilk |
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CavVet, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the WAC cut a deal with the local P.D. that allowed off-duty officers to be paid by the WAC and wear their unforms? I have been going to the shows for upwards of 20 years and I can never remember NOT seeing them there. The unfortunate fact is that the number of ND's occurring over the years forced the tie issue. I believe that the fairgrounds have stated that if there is one more ND the show will be cancelled, permanently. They had a difficult time getting insurance as recently as this year. I can remember when no guns were tied. Twice over the years I have picked up a pistol and racked the slide only to have a live round eject onto the owner's table. In both cases the mags had been removed, but the idiot owner had failed to clear the weapon. I can only imagine what could have happened if someone with little firearms experience had picked up the pistols. Both owners acted like it was no big deal and were just the types that need supervision. I understand what you are saying in that the image is one of different classes - the trusted LEO and the untrusted non-LEO, and that in itself is a bad thing. However, given my own experiences at the shows over the years I gotta give the WAC leadership the benefit of the doubt on this one. |
We use mirriam websters. In the current usage civillian does not include active Police, fire, EMS. Now, that is not a shot at the military, but it would seem that current military usage includes cops in those who ain't civillians. Then again, its all symantics. Terminologies change over time as I have seen older dictionaries with your definition, but we are talking current usage of words. In short, don't be so picky, you know what they meant. Oh, as to the current thing, it would depend on their departmental regulations and state laws. Here, on or off duty, if I'm in my county I am expected to be prepared to enforce the law. YMMV. |
So why do those in the military refer to turning things over to 'the civilian authorities' on TV, other than the fact that it's TV? |
So, you think that if you rent the fairgrounds for a church picnic, the public at large, the cops, and the firemen have the right to belly up to the buffet? Rental of the property is a cession of the right to control entry. While the ownership interests remain with the entity which owns the land, the right to exclude persons rests with the entity which has rented the premises. |
When was the last time you ever heard of an idjet trying to harm someone at a gun show? Wouldn't be a smart idea. Whenever you have that many people at a gunshow, with people pulling out their weapons to either show someone their gun, or to try it a holster, the risks of a NG go way up. I say no loaded weapons at a gun show. |