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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:06:49 PM EDT
[#1]
There was a article I read a while ago that showed the metrics of a taxi company that was using model s as a taxi vehicle.
They had been using crown vics before and the model s proved it was more reliable at less cost. Electric has extremely minimal maintenance requirements compared to ICE vehicles. I hope I can switch my entire fleet to them. Electric transit vans here I come! |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:07:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Link? Not bricked, but Tesla blacklists cars from supercharging if they don't approve of repairs.  Everything You MUST Know Before Buying A Salvage Or Rebuilt Tesla Featuring Rich Rebuilds. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:07:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Teslas are for the poors.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:07:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They won't necessarily brick your car but they will do many other unethical things to fuck with you Decrease your vehicle range, turn off features, many other things. Their service division is very unethical And in some ways anti-consumer, buying parts from them is quite difficult to in some cases due to ridiculous reasoning. I just don't know how their customers put up with it Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes. They largely will. You don't think people only buy factory battery packs for - for example - replacement in an early generation Prius? Those are very expensive. Or you can buy a made-in-the-USA aftermarket unit for a couple thousand bucks and it includes sending the old pack to them by freight. That couple thousand bucks gives you a battery good for another 8+ years. Why would purely electric vehicles be any different in terms of aftermarket support? Are you serious? That's beyond outrageous. Apple and Tesla - and more - all need to have their dicks slapped by "right to repair". It shouldn't have to be said that people ought to hold rights to repair and change their belongings as they want but here we are.  They won't necessarily brick your car but they will do many other unethical things to fuck with you Decrease your vehicle range, turn off features, many other things. Their service division is very unethical And in some ways anti-consumer, buying parts from them is quite difficult to in some cases due to ridiculous reasoning. I just don't know how their customers put up with it Come on, you know how 
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:09:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Like others have said in this thread:
$16K for a very infrequent maintenance operation when compared to lifetime costs of an ICE vehicle or a similarly sized job (engine/tranny replacement) seems reasonable. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:09:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The tech isn't where it needs to be just yet.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pocV0wKzEwIt's getting there though. Wrap it in a steel casing with fins and it can be used as an incendiary bomb, too! 
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:10:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Average electric vehicle: 1500 parts. Average ICE vehicle: 10,000 parts. Conversation over. Electric vehicles will dominate commuting in the next few decades. And that's the key aspect where I'm concerned. Not the enviroweenie stuff, not the 'no blood for oil' stuff. When adequately maintained most electric cars I have heard of are very low maintenance. Although my neighbors Tesla has squealing brakes. I thought regenerative braking meant that the brake pads on those things don't really need replacing?  It all comes back to battery technology though and that seems to be advancing by leaps and bounds. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:10:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Average electric vehicle: 1500 parts. Average ICE vehicle: 10,000 parts. Conversation over. Electric vehicles will dominate commuting in the next few decades. false No way electric vehicles take over with the myriad of disadvantages it has. *battery life sucks *cost more than ICE vehicles *not enough locations to charge *not enough POWER produced to charge vehicles *reality is that electric vehicles have a lower lifespan than ICE vehicles do. *many many many parking lots and garages, especially urban DO NOT have an ability to charge *imagine the hundreds of cars at airport parking lots all fighting for the 20-30 charging ports LOFL |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:10:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course it does. It's just like replacing the battery pack from a hybrid car, only the battery pack is 4x larger. 4x the cost, nothing surprising here. Batteries suck. They're good for pocket electronics and emergency change overs, but they are not to be trusted as your sole source of power. Unfortunately I do not think it is something you will ever be able to buy warranty coverage for because IT WILL FAIL! With an extended warranty, you are betting against the provider that a part will fail and you win the payoff. They are betting it will not and that they will keep the money. But the battery will fail and it is a losers bet on their part. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:11:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good question Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What about the electric motors Good question What can wear in an electric motor? The bearings, and ...? |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:11:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrap it in a steel casing with fins and it can be used as an incendiary bomb, too! Graphene and the other 'phenes' are mono molecular surfaces. Gee now, where did I first hear of the concept of a mono molecular surface?  Attached FileSharp! |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:11:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was a article I read a while ago that showed the metrics of a taxi company that was using model s as a taxi vehicle. They had been using crown vics before and the model s proved it was more reliable at less cost. Electric has extremely minimal maintenance requirements compared to ICE vehicles. I hope I can switch my entire fleet to them. Electric transit vans here I come! Crown Vics have only been paid off for 20 years, though. Literally ANCIENT technology at this point. What incentives did they get for upgrading, I wonder? |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:11:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Coming from a guy whose current job is literally examining future technologies for internal combustion engines and whose father was a mechanic and grew up working on cars...
And shit, I still drive a Hummer... Electric cars are the future. And really are the right choice. (We just need to expand our rare earth metal mining and stop getting the shit from China). |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:12:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: My car will burn $10,000 in gas over it’s entire life. 16k is a lot to spend on an energy tank that you have to fill every 200 miles. Porsche Taycan battery is 56000.00 |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:12:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: false No way electric vehicles take over with the myriad of disadvantages it has. *battery life sucks *cost more than ICE vehicles *not enough locations to charge *not enough POWER produced to charge vehicles *reality is that electric vehicles have a lower lifespan than ICE vehicles do. *many many many parking lots and garages, especially urban DO NOT have an ability to charge *imagine the hundreds of cars at airport parking lots all fighting for the 20-30 charging ports LOFL Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Average electric vehicle: 1500 parts. Average ICE vehicle: 10,000 parts. Conversation over. Electric vehicles will dominate commuting in the next few decades. false No way electric vehicles take over with the myriad of disadvantages it has. *battery life sucks *cost more than ICE vehicles *not enough locations to charge *not enough POWER produced to charge vehicles *reality is that electric vehicles have a lower lifespan than ICE vehicles do. *many many many parking lots and garages, especially urban DO NOT have an ability to charge *imagine the hundreds of cars at airport parking lots all fighting for the 20-30 charging ports LOFL lol |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:12:32 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:12:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like others have said in this thread: $16K for a very infrequent maintenance operation when compared to lifetime costs of an ICE vehicle or a similarly sized job (engine/tranny replacement) seems reasonable. Indeed. But that's not quite what Tesla has been offering, to date. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:13:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Ouch, but not a big ouch, many engine jobs are near that for some platforms it's not too bad considering there is Mercedes amg's engines out there that are 50k a crate https://www.thedrive.com/tech/38915/it-costs-nearly-16000-to-replace-a-tesla-model-3-battery-pack (Now I have no idea if this is true........just what I have read.) |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:13:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Porsche Taycan battery is 56000.00 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My car will burn $10,000 in gas over it’s entire life. 16k is a lot to spend on an energy tank that you have to fill every 200 miles. Porsche Taycan battery is 56000.00 
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:14:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What can wear in an electric motor? The bearings, and ...? Bearings can yes They are giant brushless electric motors so plenty of other electrical things inside them go bad after a long time |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:15:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Indeed. But that's not quite what Tesla has been offering, to date. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Like others have said in this thread: $16K for a very infrequent maintenance operation when compared to lifetime costs of an ICE vehicle or a similarly sized job (engine/tranny replacement) seems reasonable. Indeed. But that's not quite what Tesla has been offering, to date. It's a new field. The batteries will continue to get lighter and last longer and price per capacity will go way down over the next few years. Just like on phones. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:15:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: false No way electric vehicles take over with the myriad of disadvantages it has. *battery life sucks *cost more than ICE vehicles *not enough locations to charge *not enough POWER produced to charge vehicles *reality is that electric vehicles have a lower lifespan than ICE vehicles do. *many many many parking lots and garages, especially urban DO NOT have an ability to charge *imagine the hundreds of cars at airport parking lots all fighting for the 20-30 charging ports LOFL I made the same arguments against replacing my horses :( |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:15:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: false No way electric vehicles take over with the myriad of disadvantages it has. *battery life sucks *cost more than ICE vehicles *not enough locations to charge *not enough POWER produced to charge vehicles *reality is that electric vehicles have a lower lifespan than ICE vehicles do. *many many many parking lots and garages, especially urban DO NOT have an ability to charge *imagine the hundreds of cars at airport parking lots all fighting for the 20-30 charging ports LOFL Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Average electric vehicle: 1500 parts. Average ICE vehicle: 10,000 parts. Conversation over. Electric vehicles will dominate commuting in the next few decades. false No way electric vehicles take over with the myriad of disadvantages it has. *battery life sucks *cost more than ICE vehicles *not enough locations to charge *not enough POWER produced to charge vehicles *reality is that electric vehicles have a lower lifespan than ICE vehicles do. *many many many parking lots and garages, especially urban DO NOT have an ability to charge *imagine the hundreds of cars at airport parking lots all fighting for the 20-30 charging ports LOFL You'll notice I said commuting. That's where you start your day at home, drive somewhere, and drive back home before the end of the day. If you don't have electricity where you park your car at night, that can be installed for a few hundred dollars, maybe a bit more. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:15:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I made the same arguments against replacing my horses :( Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: false No way electric vehicles take over with the myriad of disadvantages it has. *battery life sucks *cost more than ICE vehicles *not enough locations to charge *not enough POWER produced to charge vehicles *reality is that electric vehicles have a lower lifespan than ICE vehicles do. *many many many parking lots and garages, especially urban DO NOT have an ability to charge *imagine the hundreds of cars at airport parking lots all fighting for the 20-30 charging ports LOFL I made the same arguments against replacing my horses :( 
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:17:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My wife's Prius is 10 years old with close to 90,000 miles and the battery health is fine. Replacement ICE's aren't cheap either and aren't getting any cheaper, however batteries will only become cheaper. Talk to me at 280,000 miles at 23 years like I have on my Cherokee. ;) Also until they can go 300 miles before refill and refill in less than 20 min they are not an effective replacement. They are fancy and gadgety though! 
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:17:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryThink for a moment. 120 years ago the streets of New York City were literally choked with horse manure. 120 years may seem like a lot of time on human scales. But where this planet is concerned? |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:19:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: false No way electric vehicles take over with the myriad of disadvantages it has. *battery life sucks *cost more than ICE vehicles *not enough locations to charge *not enough POWER produced to charge vehicles *reality is that electric vehicles have a lower lifespan than ICE vehicles do. *many many many parking lots and garages, especially urban DO NOT have an ability to charge *imagine the hundreds of cars at airport parking lots all fighting for the 20-30 charging ports LOFL Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Average electric vehicle: 1500 parts. Average ICE vehicle: 10,000 parts. Conversation over. Electric vehicles will dominate commuting in the next few decades. false No way electric vehicles take over with the myriad of disadvantages it has. *battery life sucks *cost more than ICE vehicles *not enough locations to charge *not enough POWER produced to charge vehicles *reality is that electric vehicles have a lower lifespan than ICE vehicles do. *many many many parking lots and garages, especially urban DO NOT have an ability to charge *imagine the hundreds of cars at airport parking lots all fighting for the 20-30 charging ports LOFL If we went back to 1910 there would be many people saying the same thing about gas cars. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:20:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bearings can yes They are giant brushless electric motors so plenty of other electrical things inside them go bad after a long time Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What can wear in an electric motor? The bearings, and ...? Bearings can yes They are giant brushless electric motors so plenty of other electrical things inside them go bad after a long time Much like cars...the circuit boards are what will shit the bed first given basic maintenance, most likely. Possibly before leaving the dealer lot, lol. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:22:03 PM EDT
[#29]
It isn't just batteries.
On You Tube there is an ongoing saga about replacing a tail light on a Model 3. $6000 and counting. You couldn't give me a Tesla at gunpoint |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:22:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a new field. The batteries will continue to get lighter and last longer and price per capacity will go way down over the next few years. Just like on phones. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Like others have said in this thread: $16K for a very infrequent maintenance operation when compared to lifetime costs of an ICE vehicle or a similarly sized job (engine/tranny replacement) seems reasonable. Indeed. But that's not quite what Tesla has been offering, to date. It's a new field. The batteries will continue to get lighter and last longer and price per capacity will go way down over the next few years. Just like on phones. The areas Tesla has been having its quality issues are not new fields, though. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:22:23 PM EDT
[#31]
I always wonder about these electric cars in cold climate. Batteries suck in cold weather, how much battery life is used up running the heater when it is -40 and your off to the rodeo.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:24:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The areas Tesla has been having its quality issues are not new fields, though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Like others have said in this thread: $16K for a very infrequent maintenance operation when compared to lifetime costs of an ICE vehicle or a similarly sized job (engine/tranny replacement) seems reasonable. Indeed. But that's not quite what Tesla has been offering, to date. It's a new field. The batteries will continue to get lighter and last longer and price per capacity will go way down over the next few years. Just like on phones. The areas Tesla has been having its quality issues are not new fields, though. That's a Tesla issue. Not a concept of technology issue. I'm not promoting Tesla as a company, but rather electric cars as a concept. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:27:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always wonder about these electric cars in cold climate. Batteries suck in cold weather, how much battery life is used up running the heater when it is -40 and your off to the rodeo. I would imagine. I don't know though. That when you keep it plugged in overnight that it has an effect like installing an engine block warmer on a truck in North Dakota. Also reminds me of a famous story about Ettore Bugatti. Someone told him that the car they had bought from him had trouble starting on cold mornings. Bugatti's reply was something like. "If you can afford one of my cars then you can afford a heated garage."
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:28:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much does a new motor cost on other cars that go 0-60 in 2.8 seconds? @fatcat4620 We’re talking about replacing the gas tank. Not the motors. Tesla used motors are currently 4-6k each on eBay. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:28:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My wife's Prius is 10 years old with close to 90,000 miles and the battery health is fine. Replacement ICE's aren't cheap either and aren't getting any cheaper, however batteries will only become cheaper. Most replacement engines are cheap in comparison to that. If you spent any time as a mechanic or a hobbyist mechanic you can do an ls swap with a little time and effort. For 16k you could probably have a really neat oddball rx-8/ls swap with a turbo or supercharger if you so desired. The S2000 procharged build that ran across youtube was surely less than that and looked like a ton of fun. The nice thing about using engines like the ls or the ford 5.0 is that parts are relatively cheap and the cars that traditionally carried them are plentiful. Battery powered cars are still very unique and clickish by comparison and won't be overtaking the ICE anytime soon. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:29:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: there are shops that can break down your tesla battery. find the bad cell and replace it. and it will not cost `16 grand. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:30:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we went back to 1910 there would be many people saying the same thing about gas cars. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Average electric vehicle: 1500 parts. Average ICE vehicle: 10,000 parts. Conversation over. Electric vehicles will dominate commuting in the next few decades. false No way electric vehicles take over with the myriad of disadvantages it has. *battery life sucks *cost more than ICE vehicles *not enough locations to charge *not enough POWER produced to charge vehicles *reality is that electric vehicles have a lower lifespan than ICE vehicles do. *many many many parking lots and garages, especially urban DO NOT have an ability to charge *imagine the hundreds of cars at airport parking lots all fighting for the 20-30 charging ports LOFL If we went back to 1910 there would be many people saying the same thing about gas cars. Not hardly. People recognized immediately the waste, care, maintenance, max speed, duty cycle, durability, and service life were ALL superior, out of the gate. Cost was higher than the average horse & carriage but not ridiculously so (even pre-Model T) compared to horses & carriages of similar quality. Less expensive when considering livery needs. If Tesla had first rolled out a 5000 mile battery in a 50,000$ car that could do 0-60 in three seconds, and could recharge in seconds, and didn't require expensive facilities to charge, that'd be a closer comparison. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:31:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like others have said in this thread: $16K for a very infrequent maintenance operation when compared to lifetime costs of an ICE vehicle or a similarly sized job (engine/tranny replacement) seems reasonable. @beitodesstrafe you’re comparing the gas tank (Battery) replacement to the motor replacement. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:32:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Average electric vehicle: 1500 parts. Average ICE vehicle: 10,000 parts. Conversation over. Electric vehicles will dominate commuting in the next few decades. Another thing, how much of that added complexity is due to government interference from things like air quality and safety standards? If the government hasn't gotten their fingers into EV's yet you can be sure they will, it's only a matter of time. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:33:06 PM EDT
[#40]
They are fun to drive but other than that it's really difficult to make a good business case....
If I would have to commute 60+ miles a day with free charging at work things would look different. Electricity is so freaking expensive where I live that I would barely save 10 bucks per fill-up and I'm NOT comparing against a fuel efficient car. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:33:17 PM EDT
[#41]
I just read the Tesla battery warranty. It's 8 years/100k-150k miles (depending on model), w/70% capacity retention
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:33:18 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @fatcat4620 We’re talking about replacing the gas tank. Not the motors. Tesla used motors are currently 4-6k each on eBay. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How much does a new motor cost on other cars that go 0-60 in 2.8 seconds? @fatcat4620 We’re talking about replacing the gas tank. Not the motors. Tesla used motors are currently 4-6k each on eBay. That's nearly as much as many short-blocks...the control system and power supply units probably run near that amount, too. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:33:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: there are shops that can break down your tesla battery. find the bad cell and replace it. and it will not cost `16 grand. What happens when another cell goes bad a month later, then a couple more, then another over the next year? |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:33:57 PM EDT
[#44]
One of the few benefits of getting older is that you really don't have to care about this on-the-horizon stuff.
I figure ICE will still be made in the next 5-10 years at least. In 30 years I definitely won't be driving, so I will just do ICE until they are done making them then drive that last year until I am dead. You young bucks can enjoy the future. 
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:34:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a Tesla issue. Not a concept of technology issue. I'm not promoting Tesla as a company, but rather electric cars as a concept. Indeed Ev isn't the issue "well it does have plenty of issues" Tesla its self in some ways is the problem |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:35:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @beitodesstrafe you’re comparing the gas tank (Battery) replacement to the motor replacement. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Like others have said in this thread: $16K for a very infrequent maintenance operation when compared to lifetime costs of an ICE vehicle or a similarly sized job (engine/tranny replacement) seems reasonable. @beitodesstrafe you’re comparing the gas tank (Battery) replacement to the motor replacement. No... not really. The battery to electric motor relationship in an electric car is not perfectly analogous to a gas tank to engine/tranny/driveline/differential/etc relationship in an ICE car. ETA: if you wanted to go down that road, I'd say "hahaha see how much work it is to replace an entire drivetrain, combustion chamber to axle, as compared to one littler electric motor!" You gotta use your logic hat a little bit with this one.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:35:13 PM EDT
[#47]
That’s a new entry level car like my Soul. Fuck that shit.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:37:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Considering the difference in parts counts between an electric motor and an IC engine isn't anywhere near 8500 (probably closer to between 1000 and 2000 depending on the number of cylinders in the IC engine) I'm going to suggest that the parts count difference on the entire car is either far less or much of that savings is something that could also be applied to IC engine vehicles. Another thing, how much of that added complexity is due to government interference from things like air quality and safety standards? If the government hasn't gotten their fingers into EV's yet you can be sure they will, it's only a matter of time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Average electric vehicle: 1500 parts. Average ICE vehicle: 10,000 parts. Conversation over. Electric vehicles will dominate commuting in the next few decades. Another thing, how much of that added complexity is due to government interference from things like air quality and safety standards? If the government hasn't gotten their fingers into EV's yet you can be sure they will, it's only a matter of time. Probably a thousand of that is foregoing dials & buttons for a giant touchscreen dash. 
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:38:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Legislation over the last 16 years killed off the possibility of going to diesel and using diesel electric hybrids. Now we are blindly nosediving in golf cart technology then pretending to be blind about the toxic waste it's going to produce.
No one is waiting for the technology to be improved, ram it down America's throat, make the money, then walk away when your ass deep in the shit. That's the new American political system. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:38:28 PM EDT
[#50]
That's gonna wreck the resale value of one with normal miles on it pretty hard. Cost of it used + 16k for a battery not too far down the road = might as well just buy one new.
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