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Posted: 1/23/2021 5:51:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Patton didn't kill himself
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Posted: 1/23/2021 6:02:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As I understand the situation, the soldiers he struck were shell shocked and he took it for cowardice from what I understand it wasn't specifically because they were shell shocked, but because they were housed with soldiers that had been physically injured in battle. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 6:15:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was a tactical genius but he might as well have been an Orc  Le mot juste!
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Posted: 1/23/2021 6:17:30 PM EDT
[#4]
There are three types of people; dicks, pussies and assholes!
Patton was Not an asshole! He was a dick! We need dick’s to fuck both pussies and assholes! There appears to be a number of pussy posters in this thread! |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 6:18:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia or Germany would have shot that soldier, so in perspective Paton was a kind and benevolent leader. Media needed a story though. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 6:19:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same Eisenhower that ordered western forces to stop at the Elbe river in order to allow the Russians to take Berlin? He was the one that was focused on winning the war? The same Eisenhower that ordered Patton to stop short of Prague to not offend the Russians, leaving the Czechs' fate in the hands of the communists? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It was conduct unbecoming an officer. It showed an astonishing lack of self control and discipline -- and this from a man who demanded unwavering discipline from the men in his command. Patton's greatness was more myth and propaganda than reality. He was undisciplined as hell, driven almost entirely by ego, and he had nowhere near the grasp of the situation as he thought he did. Eisenhower and Bradley were focused on winning the war, primarily by avoiding mistakes that could easily cost them the war or at least seriously delay victory. They were both brilliant and methodical strategists who ground the enemy down, move by careful move, leaving his no possible route toward victory. Patton didn't give a shit about any of that. He wanted headlines, and he chased those headlines to the point of absolute tactical madness. He pissed off everyone around him including his peers, subordinates, superiors, and our allies. He pushed his army well past his chain of supply, even running his vehicles out of fuel. He mistook a lack of German resistance (most of their effort was concentrated on the Eastern front) for an inability to muster resistance, was very lucky that his army was not destroyed in detail. Had it been it could have set the western allies advance back by months or even years. Hell, it could have cost us all of Europe, turning a slower by sure victory into a loss to either Germany or Russia. It was idiotic. And his comments about fighting Russia were literally insane, and showed just how clearly he underestimated the might of the Red Army or the situation in the pacific. The same Eisenhower that ordered western forces to stop at the Elbe river in order to allow the Russians to take Berlin? He was the one that was focused on winning the war? The same Eisenhower that ordered Patton to stop short of Prague to not offend the Russians, leaving the Czechs' fate in the hands of the communists? Giving Berlin and Prague to the Russians was decided by powers well above Ike. It would have made no sense to get US troops killed taking territory just to turn it over to the Russians. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 6:27:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also once the guy is done he is fucking done. If you werent an arrogant upper management cunt you would realize this. Patton was too much of a blow hard and a politician to understand that. Went to school with his granddaughter. His nephew came to Bragg as part of a college ROTC program one summer. There were a few 11B platoons that oversaw their summer training. We were on Post Support cycle and had his unit as one of the cadet squads we had. The nephew was a colossal prick. Anyone he wrote reviews on , he trashed them as sub par soldiers needing closer supervision. A few guys in my platoon wanted to strangle him. Our 1st Sgt was glad when his group had left. Top wanted to leave him stranded out in Area J a few times. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 6:28:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: I thought people were much tougher back then, yet this sparked so much outrage he almost got fired over it.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrtS2_TfbeYWant to know what was an almost unforgivable sin for Confederate (and probably Union too) officers during the civil war? Cussing at those of lesser rank. Speaking roughly was bad enough, but drop a little profanity in there and there was going to be some trouble. And these were men that spent the winter of 63/64 barefoot and on starvation rations and still smiled laughed and whistled their war back on to the same battlefield where jackson had died the previous spring. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 6:39:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would it have been ok for an enlisted man to slap him? No? Then he should have kept his fucking hands to himself. This. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 6:45:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure the ROK soldier brought to the aid station with a bullet hole between the eyes, had it done by his officer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Russia or Germany would have shot that soldier, so in perspective Paton was a kind and benevolent leader. Media needed a story though. My dad witnessed some ROK soldiers getting the shit beat out of them, and it was slightly his fault... Timeframe was late '60's, he was returning to base (officer, so had a driver, wasn't allowed to leave the base solo or unarmed), guards at one gate tried to shake them down before letting them back on base. Turned out my dad and the base commander (ROK) were both ordnance officers, and the base commander had taken a liking to him, so he after he had his driver take them to another gate, he had the driver drop him off at the commander's quarters and told him what happened. First thing the next morning, he was asked to come over to the base headquarters, where the entire security battalion was in formation, with the soldiers who'd tried to shake them down were out in front of the formation with their NCO's, who proceeded to beat the crap out of them. Full wind up punch to the gut, soldier would double over, then pop to attention, just to take another one. Dad said he didn't know if that stopped shakedown attempts, but he was positive every member of that battalion had memorized who he was and that he wasn't to be fucked with. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 6:50:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I knew a Canadian soldier who had served as UN peacekeeper on Cyprus back in the early 80s, which kept the Turks from massacring the Greeks. He said the Turkish officers would routinely beat the crap out of their men. He said one time they were watching some Turkish soldier get slapped around by his CO. The soldier lost control and hit the officer back. The officer steps back, pulls out his gun, and blows the guy's head open right there. The Iraq and Afghan vets here probably have even more graphic stories. Our unit went to northern Iraq for Op Provide Comfort after Desert Storm. We had R&R twice at Incirlik AFB. We saw Turkish non coms and officers beat and kick lower ranking soldiers quite often. Usually had them in the front leaning rest while beating them. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 7:14:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Giving Berlin and Prague to the Russians was decided by powers well above Ike. It would have made no sense to get US troops killed taking territory just to turn it over to the Russians. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It was conduct unbecoming an officer. It showed an astonishing lack of self control and discipline -- and this from a man who demanded unwavering discipline from the men in his command. Patton's greatness was more myth and propaganda than reality. He was undisciplined as hell, driven almost entirely by ego, and he had nowhere near the grasp of the situation as he thought he did. Eisenhower and Bradley were focused on winning the war, primarily by avoiding mistakes that could easily cost them the war or at least seriously delay victory. They were both brilliant and methodical strategists who ground the enemy down, move by careful move, leaving his no possible route toward victory. Patton didn't give a shit about any of that. He wanted headlines, and he chased those headlines to the point of absolute tactical madness. He pissed off everyone around him including his peers, subordinates, superiors, and our allies. He pushed his army well past his chain of supply, even running his vehicles out of fuel. He mistook a lack of German resistance (most of their effort was concentrated on the Eastern front) for an inability to muster resistance, was very lucky that his army was not destroyed in detail. Had it been it could have set the western allies advance back by months or even years. Hell, it could have cost us all of Europe, turning a slower by sure victory into a loss to either Germany or Russia. It was idiotic. And his comments about fighting Russia were literally insane, and showed just how clearly he underestimated the might of the Red Army or the situation in the pacific. The same Eisenhower that ordered western forces to stop at the Elbe river in order to allow the Russians to take Berlin? He was the one that was focused on winning the war? The same Eisenhower that ordered Patton to stop short of Prague to not offend the Russians, leaving the Czechs' fate in the hands of the communists? Giving Berlin and Prague to the Russians was decided by powers well above Ike. It would have made no sense to get US troops killed taking territory just to turn it over to the Russians. But it was worth losing Americans up until Pilsen though. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 7:19:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was deployed and in a mandatory group briefing. The mag/cc was on a rant about something in the Air Force Times. He said he could kick anyones ass that was there. I wondered what would have happened had someone took him up on it. Combative instruction is always good hip pocket instruction. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 7:24:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Dropping blouses and settling shit like that is one thing. Striking a subordinate when he cant defend himself is bullshit.
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Posted: 1/23/2021 7:27:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But it was worth losing Americans up until Pilsen though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It was conduct unbecoming an officer. It showed an astonishing lack of self control and discipline -- and this from a man who demanded unwavering discipline from the men in his command. Patton's greatness was more myth and propaganda than reality. He was undisciplined as hell, driven almost entirely by ego, and he had nowhere near the grasp of the situation as he thought he did. Eisenhower and Bradley were focused on winning the war, primarily by avoiding mistakes that could easily cost them the war or at least seriously delay victory. They were both brilliant and methodical strategists who ground the enemy down, move by careful move, leaving his no possible route toward victory. Patton didn't give a shit about any of that. He wanted headlines, and he chased those headlines to the point of absolute tactical madness. He pissed off everyone around him including his peers, subordinates, superiors, and our allies. He pushed his army well past his chain of supply, even running his vehicles out of fuel. He mistook a lack of German resistance (most of their effort was concentrated on the Eastern front) for an inability to muster resistance, was very lucky that his army was not destroyed in detail. Had it been it could have set the western allies advance back by months or even years. Hell, it could have cost us all of Europe, turning a slower by sure victory into a loss to either Germany or Russia. It was idiotic. And his comments about fighting Russia were literally insane, and showed just how clearly he underestimated the might of the Red Army or the situation in the pacific. The same Eisenhower that ordered western forces to stop at the Elbe river in order to allow the Russians to take Berlin? He was the one that was focused on winning the war? The same Eisenhower that ordered Patton to stop short of Prague to not offend the Russians, leaving the Czechs' fate in the hands of the communists? Giving Berlin and Prague to the Russians was decided by powers well above Ike. It would have made no sense to get US troops killed taking territory just to turn it over to the Russians. But it was worth losing Americans up until Pilsen though. I guess? I wasn't in Ike's HQ when the decisions were made. I just know when it was brought up later he said he wasn't going to get GIs killed taking Berlin and other places just to turn the real estate over to the Russians. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 7:29:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish we could still slap soldiers. Much faster than a counseling statement.  
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Posted: 1/23/2021 7:32:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would it have been ok for an enlisted man to slap him? No? Then he should have kept his fucking hands to himself. If he was cowering and sniveling like a bitch then sure. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 7:45:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Because it's a POS move, that's why.....
jd1 |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 7:46:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess? I wasn't in Ike's HQ when the decisions were made. I just know when it was brought up later he said he wasn't going to get GIs killed taking Berlin and other places just to turn the real estate over to the Russians. I guess I just don't buy that Ike "was focused on winning the war" if he was making political decisions keep him from finishing it more quickly. Heck, his decision to stop Patton earlier also lead to the costly Battle of Metz, rather than letting Patton continue with what would later be called maneuver warfare. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 8:04:03 PM EDT
[#20]
We had a liberal media and swamp even during WWII.
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Posted: 1/23/2021 8:33:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Patton bad, commie FDR good.
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Posted: 1/23/2021 8:47:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The soldiers that he slapped were suffering from Slapping them was the wrong way to handle the situation if he thought that they were trying to get out of duty. He's lucky that we needed him to help win the war or else he could've landed in bigger trouble than he did. I can only imagine the ass chewing that a general gets!  FIFY and yes I know they are the same thing , but everyone keeps missing the point that at the time there was a widely held belief by many that Battle Fatigue or Shell Shock was something that a soldier could be shaken out of. Not saying it was right but it was a commonly held and accepted belief even by many medical professionals of the day. I still think we should not label it PTSD , Battle Fatigue or Shell Shock as George Carlin suggested is a more accurate and visceral description of the traumas suffered in combat. The assholes we have today in the medical community use PTSD for everything from car wrecks , to combat to child abuse. It does a dis service to the experiences of soldiers in combat , and is not the same as getting rear ended in a car. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 8:51:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When a military leader resorts to physical violence against a subordinate (other than self defense or existences in combat, of course) he has already lost the leadership battle. Patton ruled by fear and discipline, but since there was a major war and lots of battles it didn't really matter as the job had to be done. Patton's strategy in Sicily got many, many Americans killed simply because he wanted to beat the British. Most troops that served under Patton hated him with a passion. A former co-workers grandfather served under Patton and if his name was even mentioned, this mild mannered farmer would go into a rage, that's how bad he was hated. A true military leader, especially a General officer, does not need to resort to any physical violence, nor does he need to be openly armed, to perform his duties. I know that is antitheta to GD but in reality that is the truth. While MacArthur is roundly despised, it was one of his maxims that he would never openly carry a sidearm while commanding. He fully believed his authority, leadership and strategic and tactical acumen is what was necessary, not an armed he-man presence. That is something Patton never understood, the guy who carried 2 pearl handled revolvers like some mythical cowboy General. You have revealed that you do not know of what you speak. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 8:55:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What combat had Patton seen, other than rampaging on unarmed US Veterans? Conducted the first motorized assault in the world - Pershing's expedition to Mexico. Led American tanks in WWI. Wounded in action. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 8:59:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Giving Berlin and Prague to the Russians was decided by powers well above Ike. It would have made no sense to get US troops killed taking territory just to turn it over to the Russians. Berlin Airlift, Berlin Wall, and the Cold War argue otherwise. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 9:02:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have revealed that you do not know of what you speak. Who gives a fuck what they were made out of. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 9:06:25 PM EDT
[#27]
This thread smells of commies, feels and defeat!
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Posted: 1/23/2021 9:08:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Hitting your men is a Russian officer thing to do, not American.
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Posted: 1/23/2021 9:13:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: >when your old high school football coach would literally punch you people really are a bunch of faggots now Sounds like a great way for a high school football coach to wind up beaten to death and laying in a ditch somewhere. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 9:17:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad witnessed some ROK soldiers getting the shit beat out of them, and it was slightly his fault... Timeframe was late '60's, he was returning to base (officer, so had a driver, wasn't allowed to leave the base solo or unarmed), guards at one gate tried to shake them down before letting them back on base. Turned out my dad and the base commander (ROK) were both ordnance officers, and the base commander had taken a liking to him, so he after he had his driver take them to another gate, he had the driver drop him off at the commander's quarters and told him what happened. First thing the next morning, he was asked to come over to the base headquarters, where the entire security battalion was in formation, with the soldiers who'd tried to shake them down were out in front of the formation with their NCO's, who proceeded to beat the crap out of them. Full wind up punch to the gut, soldier would double over, then pop to attention, just to take another one. Dad said he didn't know if that stopped shakedown attempts, but he was positive every member of that battalion had memorized who he was and that he wasn't to be fucked with. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Russia or Germany would have shot that soldier, so in perspective Paton was a kind and benevolent leader. Media needed a story though. My dad witnessed some ROK soldiers getting the shit beat out of them, and it was slightly his fault... Timeframe was late '60's, he was returning to base (officer, so had a driver, wasn't allowed to leave the base solo or unarmed), guards at one gate tried to shake them down before letting them back on base. Turned out my dad and the base commander (ROK) were both ordnance officers, and the base commander had taken a liking to him, so he after he had his driver take them to another gate, he had the driver drop him off at the commander's quarters and told him what happened. First thing the next morning, he was asked to come over to the base headquarters, where the entire security battalion was in formation, with the soldiers who'd tried to shake them down were out in front of the formation with their NCO's, who proceeded to beat the crap out of them. Full wind up punch to the gut, soldier would double over, then pop to attention, just to take another one. Dad said he didn't know if that stopped shakedown attempts, but he was positive every member of that battalion had memorized who he was and that he wasn't to be fucked with. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 10:00:21 PM EDT
[#31]
If a general Officer did this today he would be long gone and rightly so. A second chance of doing so is ridiculous. If you cant handle the job stress there are easily 100 more behind you that can and will. Your replacement is on site before you ever got to that position. The Army has been doing this shit for over 250 years and are pretty good at it. Especially now in a professional Army without a draft.
Slapping one soldier as a GO is stupid. Repeating the action is stupid as all fuck. They are 2 personnel in a war of literally millions of personnel serving. 99.9% most whom you never seen. Stupid as shit. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 10:02:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Conducted the first motorized assault in the world - Pershing's expedition to Mexico. Led American tanks in WWI. Wounded in action. You think he would have thought it was OK if an officer came and slapped him in the field hospital because he wasn't still on the line? |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 10:02:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because he was an ardent anti Communist and even then the commies were widespread throughout the media and intellectual classes. This has a lot to do with it. It was the press that jumped on it. |
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Posted: 1/23/2021 10:10:59 PM EDT
[#34]
fdr was a commie nwo fuck
that's why fuck |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:18:36 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who gives a fuck what they were made out of. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You have revealed that you do not know of what you speak. Who gives a fuck what they were made out of. Those interested in accuracy - which apparently lets you out. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:20:25 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You think he would have thought it was OK if an officer came and slapped him in the field hospital because he wasn't still on the line? I am unaware of ANYONE, much less myself, that says his actions in this case are OK. If I am mistaken, please quote me. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:25:52 AM EDT
[#37]
In the meantime, Ike was banging his driver, Kay Summersby. Enlisted, if I recall correctly. A far worse crime than slapping a soldier. Nothing was said of it.
Of course, no worries about Montgomery boinking an enlisted woman. Enlisted man? Maybe not so much. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:27:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the meantime, Ike was banging his driver, Kay Summersby. Enlisted, if I recall correctly. A far worse crime than slapping a soldier. Nothing was said of it. Of course, no worries about Montgomery boinking an enlisted woman. Enlisted man? Maybe not so much. Different spanks for different ranks. You know that. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:29:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really ask that question? Officers dont hit enlisted. What the fuck do you think this is 3rd world wipe your ass with your left hand army. They are supposed to have senior NCO's that do that for them. "CHAIN OF COMMAND" means the chain they beat you with until you follow commands. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:34:50 AM EDT
[#40]
My grandfather served under Patton, North Africa, Sicily (he invaded Anzio) and into Europe.
Grandpa hated Patton more than the Germans. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:37:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really ask that question? Officers dont hit enlisted. What the fuck do you think this is 3rd world wipe your ass with your left hand army. He knows why. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:38:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was lucky he was so damn good. Otherwise he would have lost his commission for sure. He was a ring knocker(west point grad, they are a frat with quite a bit of string pulling power). On top of being an Olympian who was such a good pistol shot they had to change the rules of the game due to him(He shot a group that was bulls eye, 10 shots but they could only distinguish 9 holes (.45 wad cutters do that) so he only got credited with 9 hits instead of 10, put him from medaling to back of the pack; rules changed later to say something to the effect of " if 9 of the shots are in a touching group and in the 10 ring it can be assumed the shooter is good enough to put a 10th through the gap".) Example of ring power; buddy was an MP in Alaska , got called to on base ski hill for" assault of a minor". Minor(14 year old kid), was snow boarding passed a guy skiing, guy skiing yelled, " slow down", snowboarder, yelled " F__K YOU". skier chases down snowboarder, they meet at bottom of the hill, skier tackles snowboarder in the lift line, mounts him(ski's had come off) and punches him in face 3 times. bystanders( many of them) in the lift line restrain the adult. cops arrive. guess who has a west point ring. Buddy took the reports and wrote it all up. End result was a 14 year old kid was banned from the ski area. Buddy lost all faith in being an MP and bailed after that. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:50:41 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If a general Officer did this today he would be long gone and rightly so. A second chance of doing so is ridiculous. If you cant handle the job stress there are easily 100 more behind you that can and will. Your replacement is on site before you ever got to that position. The Army has been doing this shit for over 250 years and are pretty good at it. Especially now in a professional Army without a draft. Slapping one soldier as a GO is stupid. Repeating the action is stupid as all fuck. They are 2 personnel in a war of literally millions of personnel serving. 99.9% most whom you never seen. Stupid as shit. Patton was not easily replaced. He wasn’t pushing paper in the Pentagon. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 10:55:35 AM EDT
[#44]
Patton has become more myth, than anything else. The 1970 movie played a big part in that.
I consider Patton to be the European theater's McArthur. Driven by ego and chasing glory. Personally, much of Patton's performance is played up. For having a reputation of a aggressive and smart commander, he had no problem wasting many, many men's lives in a months long meat grinder, in attritional warfare at Metz. Had no problem throwing away his men on personal missions when it suited him. (Task Force Baum anyone?) The fact he was sidelined with Operation Overlord should say a lot. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 11:04:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was a ring knocker(west point grad, they are a frat with quite a bit of string pulling power). On top of being an Olympian who was such a good pistol shot they had to change the rules of the game due to him(He shot a group that was bulls eye, 10 shots but they could only distinguish 9 holes (.45 wad cutters do that) so he only got credited with 9 hits instead of 10, put him from medaling to back of the pack; rules changed later to say something to the effect of " if 9 of the shots are in a touching group and in the 10 ring it can be assumed the shooter is good enough to put a 10th through the gap".) Example of ring power; buddy was an MP in Alaska , got called to on base ski hill for" assault of a minor". Minor(14 year old kid), was snow boarding passed a guy skiing, guy skiing yelled, " slow down", snowboarder, yelled " F__K YOU". skier chases down snowboarder, they meet at bottom of the hill, skier tackles snowboarder in the lift line, mounts him(ski's had come off) and punches him in face 3 times. bystanders( many of them) in the lift line restrain the adult. cops arrive. guess who has a west point ring. Buddy took the reports and wrote it all up. End result was a 14 year old kid was banned from the ski area. Buddy lost all faith in being an MP and bailed after that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He was lucky he was so damn good. Otherwise he would have lost his commission for sure. He was a ring knocker(west point grad, they are a frat with quite a bit of string pulling power). On top of being an Olympian who was such a good pistol shot they had to change the rules of the game due to him(He shot a group that was bulls eye, 10 shots but they could only distinguish 9 holes (.45 wad cutters do that) so he only got credited with 9 hits instead of 10, put him from medaling to back of the pack; rules changed later to say something to the effect of " if 9 of the shots are in a touching group and in the 10 ring it can be assumed the shooter is good enough to put a 10th through the gap".) Example of ring power; buddy was an MP in Alaska , got called to on base ski hill for" assault of a minor". Minor(14 year old kid), was snow boarding passed a guy skiing, guy skiing yelled, " slow down", snowboarder, yelled " F__K YOU". skier chases down snowboarder, they meet at bottom of the hill, skier tackles snowboarder in the lift line, mounts him(ski's had come off) and punches him in face 3 times. bystanders( many of them) in the lift line restrain the adult. cops arrive. guess who has a west point ring. Buddy took the reports and wrote it all up. End result was a 14 year old kid was banned from the ski area. Buddy lost all faith in being an MP and bailed after that. Patton could shoot! I think he used a .38 in the Olympics.  Patton In Sweden Pistol Shooting (1940-1949) |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 12:17:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Old blood and guts Patton. The soldiers blood and his guts was a very common thing for me to hear growing up. I always took it that Patton had little regard for casualties his men would suffer.
People die in war and it is expected, but were his tactics great or did he just have more meat for the grinder than the Germans. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 12:34:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Old blood and guts Patton. The soldiers blood and his guts was a very common thing for me to hear growing up. I always took it that Patton had little regard for casualties his men would suffer. People die in war and it is expected, but were his tactics great or did he just have more meat for the grinder than the Germans. My wife's grandfather served under Patton and had a low opinion of him. He made his reputation on the suffering of his men. The only person Patton ever cared about was Patton. I read his biography & he does come off as a self important prick. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 12:46:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Why do so many on arf think the manliest possible thing is the most thuggish way.
My gym teacher beat me (bullshit), how manly! My DI hit me (bullshit), how cool! There is something seriously wrong with some of you. Edit: for a someone you guys like to say hated commies, he sure fought like one. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 5:12:07 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was conduct unbecoming an officer. It showed an astonishing lack of self control and discipline -- and this from a man who demanded unwavering discipline from the men in his command. Patton's greatness was more myth and propaganda than reality. He was undisciplined as hell, driven almost entirely by ego, and he had nowhere near the grasp of the situation as he thought he did. Eisenhower and Bradley were focused on winning the war, primarily by avoiding mistakes that could easily cost them the war or at least seriously delay victory. They were both brilliant and methodical strategists who ground the enemy down, move by careful move, leaving his no possible route toward victory. Patton didn't give a shit about any of that. He wanted headlines, and he chased those headlines to the point of absolute tactical madness. He pissed off everyone around him including his peers, subordinates, superiors, and our allies. He pushed his army well past his chain of supply, even running his vehicles out of fuel. He mistook a lack of German resistance (most of their effort was concentrated on the Eastern front) for an inability to muster resistance, was very lucky that his army was not destroyed in detail. Had it been it could have set the western allies advance back by months or even years. Hell, it could have cost us all of Europe, turning a slower by sure victory into a loss to either Germany or Russia. It was idiotic. And his comments about fighting Russia were literally insane, and showed just how clearly he underestimated the might of the Red Army or the situation in the pacnific. |
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