Frequently we see posts referring to the stereotypical arfcom member being overweight and out of shape, from a lack of getting into shape.  I mean why should they right now as being in shape isn’t important.  They can always get into shape when shtf right?  

Another one is the member that bought 4 brand new PSA rifles with sightmark sights on them.  Never been fired, and sighted in.  The member thinks there’s enough lube in the gun and surely it’ll work when shtf right?  

Then there’s the folks who want comms, and instant gratification.  They don’t grasp what’s really involved, and think it’s just like the toy radios. Have they ever had to make an emergency call on the radio?  Bet not. Could they quickly change settings on their radios due some issue forcing it?  Nope.  What frequency are they going to turn to?  
License let’s you go thru the motions legally and practice. The boogeyman already has your number. Don’t want to learn that’s fine. When all hell breaks lose, many of us will be preoccupied with our own stuff. We won’t have time to hold your hands and teach you then.  Hopefully your family will understand.

That's not new at all. Its always been that way.

Get this....its illegal to talk in "code" to obscure the meaning of messages too.

I've had my ticket over 30 years,

We practice this just for fun.  Fastest I found a transmitter was 7 minutes from several miles away.

Why should they want to with such helpful people representing the group. Instead of planting a seed of intrigue and fostering a environment of knowledge seeking, the number of ivory tower snobs is insane. You talk shop, make snide remarks, and end on a "oh well, your family will understand when you're dead" quip. That mentality will really make someone give two craps about entering the field much less taking the time to get a license. Congrats on having a mentality that will kill the hobby.

Is it so hard to change your approach to new comers so that they are interested in expanding their knowledge? Thank God the 2a people aren't this way. "hey I'm thinking about buying a gun. Can you help me?" they would get "you better damn well know that 4473 front and back." in reply from some of you I swear (not necessarily you in particular).

Give a person a desire to learn more instead of harping on licensing and they will find their way to a license themselves.

Finding transmitting devices or the gestapo part? Because one is pretty cool and one is not at all.

That's why I bought four radios.

A license is just a  permit, if one wants to learn they will learn.

FIFY

Now that you're here, let's fill you in on what happened December 6th...

Getting a license is a good pursuit. Stay on the right side of the law. Don't use the radio inappropriately and maybe we won't lose the privilege in the future. Yeah most of what you'll find on the air is polite older folks chatting but they are good folk. The test is easy. My 12 year old son passed his tech license last October. We are homeschooling since after Christmas and I'll be teaching Ham Radio to an 8 and (2) 10 year olds tomorrow. If they can do it certainly anyone on this forum can.

I'd avoiding talking politics on the radio though.

The Ham radio community is helpful. Clubs often have loaner equipment and people to help get you started. I've helped set up a few antennas with the local Elmers (term for people who are more seasoned and willing to assist newcomers). My club gave my son a Beofeng when he passed his exam and I am using a loaner HF rig currently.

Apply it to firearms.

Is it better to buy a gun, practice, and become proficient? Yes.

Can you buy a gun, stick it in a drawer never fired, and have it save your life down the road? Yes.

At least the person with the gun has the option versus being stuck with blunt objects or their Steven Seagal impersonation.

Echo Charlie band.....

Good analogy. Your LEGAL AR configurations are like operating a radio with a license and getting training. Your SHTF scenario is where you use the radio skills you now know but maybe your use of frequencies, encryption, etc aren't "legal" but necessary.

I kept my dad's license plate. K1RCH

rip dad

Uh... do I need to flush all my video gear before the HAMfudds turn me in?

Not for long. The clip on mine broke after a few days. I haven't even installed them on my new ones. I got a cute unicorn mini-backpack for my daughter's radio, I have a more adult looking one for mine (civilian clothes), and I made a tactical pouch out of duct tape and cable ties for the one that goes on my plate carrier.

If you have an unregistered ((unliscenced) HAM radio and you have power for it and an antenna to hook it to, than you have “constructive intent” and are thus eligible for persecution.... isn’t that how these things work?

When do we get do delete our posts and abandon this sinking ship?

ARFCOM is FUBAR.

The FCC also has carte blanche to stop by your home for a visit to make sure your setup is within regulatory guidelines.  I say that about Amateur Radio, but I also just realized it's the same for my GMRS license.  Anything you have to get a license or permission for from the government gives them the permission to conduct a visit of your domicile.

ROCK6

I despise that word in connection with anything related to the government. DESPISE.

I bet you think driving is a privilege too. I find that people who are easily brainwashed think so as well AND they make sure to repeat it to anyone who presents them with the opportunity.

The same people will tell you with a straight face that owning and operating a firearm is a right because some dead dude wrote it on a piece of parchment. Owning and operating a car or a radio, which are the modern, accepted and common forms of transportation and communication, is a privilege because it wasn't written on a piece of parchment

Explain the difference.

Anyone who thinks that driving a car or using a radio is a privilege views themselves as a subject of this government with no real rights at all. There's no getting around that fact.

And, by the way, privilege implies that it can be taken away at any time without cause. So, if the government told you they were revoking your radio and car licenses even though you did nothing wrong, you'd have to be ok with that since it's a privilege, right?

My boss would shake my hand. I'm thankful to work for a man who shares my ideologies. Some liberal tears aren't going to cost me my livelihood.

Some of the replies here.  Wow.

It always amazes me when someone obtains gear X "for when the shtf", and expects that they will be able to use it effectively for the first time under stress and with no training / experience.

Fred buys the most awesomest medical kit available.  Lots of amazingly cool toys like decompression needles, intubation equipment, suture kit, etc.  No training, no experience or regular practice with perishable skills.  

Same thing applies with radios.  No, it's not surgery, but it requires knowledge and practice to be effective on the radio in an emergency.

There is a reason that, for instance, emergency service groups in the amateur community conduct drills and hold weekly nets.  Because when everything goes to hell, you will revert to doing what you have done over and over.  

But sure, buying an important tool for emergency use and then never using until an emergency arises is also a viable plan, I guess.....

There are competitions based on finding transmitters in the field, called 'foxhunting'.  Nothing Gestapo about it, just an interesting technical exercise combined with some physical exercise.

They have the same authority if you are using any radio, such as a WiFi router.

Here is the thing though, and lets be honest, they absolutely will be able to use it.

Anyone mentally competent could pick up four boafengs, type in the same number on the front so they all match and then talk to each other over several miles. Seems like that could be a useful thing and it only takes a minute to figure it out.

Will they know all of the intricacies of the radio from that? No, they should watch a 10 minute video and then they will. But basic use is a no brainer.

Yeah, sometimes, it is boring chit chat. Sometimes, it's technical discussions that train radio operators. And those old men talking about their gout have probably forgotten more about radio than you and I will ever know. One of the guys I used to talk to, long since a silent key, used to manufacture his own radio tubes using mayonnaise jars and a vacuum pump. He was a commissioned naval officer in the 1920s. He was also a licensed professional engineer.

Most hams today are appliance operators. They don't understand that in the old days of radio, the guys who were sending code using the HAM fist, were building their own radios from parts collected from various sources. There weren't any shops you could go to to buy a lot of what they were doing, and they had to make it all from scratch.

How well trained of an operator are you? Do you know how to interface with net control? Can you pass emergency traffic? Do you have any idea what an arl message is? Do you know emcomm procedures, or what nims and ics are? Do you know what zone you are in, or what grid square? If you don't understand any of this, how are you going to establish a 9 line if the time ever comes? How about SAR? Grid searches. Marking structures after search, or even what hazmat markings are?

There's a lot more to being a trained radio operator than turning on your baofeng and tuning in a frequency. If that's all you want to do, then fine, don't sit the exam, or take the time to learn. But so you understand, comms is probably the single most important facet of anything you will do out there. It's the thing thing you use before, during, and after any engagement.

First your cover, then comms, then medical, and then, maybe, weapon. Comms is the most important thing you can do, especially if you are intending to bring any additional ass to the party. You should be able to do it without thinking about it, and repetition is the only thing that teaches that. Just like with everything else, until you can do it in your sleep. So, sometimes, you make small talk when nothing else is going in. While operating a station, you are doing a lot more than just talking about your gout.

You choose. Unlicensed and untrained. I wouldn't recommend that approach for anything else, so why should I do it for radio? Do you have firearms training? Medical? Do you know tactics? Yeah, all that, but not radio. Really?

You choose.

If you're worried about repeaters being taken over by the government, buy a HF radio instead. UHF/VHF doesn't interest me much anyway. I have a couple UHF/VHF radios but I rarely use them. HF is a lot more interesting to me. I love being about to talk anywhere in the world with just a radio and antenna. The drawback is they are expensive. I've been using an old tube powered radio my grandfather used but hopefully I'll get a modern radio this year.

I was just going to buy a dual transceiver but now I am leaning towards the Icom IC-7100 for the HF capability. But the other drawback, just to point it out to other new comers as I have just learned myself, is it requires a pretty big and goofy antenna and that antenna varies based on what you want to listen to.

I just used a long speaker wire and made what they call an end-fed antenna. There are cheap kits online. I think my total cost was less than $20

Really? How far are you reaching out with your setup? I was looking at either building or likely buying a off-center fed dipole.

But first I would be setting up a VHF/UHF antenna for local stuff.

Keying up for a fraction of a second is all that is needed. Location is pinned down within a few yards when using multiple direction finding stations spread out over a wide area, ideally at roughly 90 degree angles to where the target is located. Of course moving makes it a bit harder, the idiot(s) "kerchunking" and interfering with a local repeater is careful to move a lot.

I have issues with transmitting now but I don't think that's due to the antenna. My radio is really old. It's 100% tube powered and learning to use it was challenging.

Read the FCC statement again, and tell me you see no implied threat of exactly that.

I dont understand the hate for ham operators.

I bought a couple handhelds a few years back and used MURS / FRS as a replacement for CB when offroading / camping with friends who didnt have CB.

Decided I might as well get my ham license. I googled my local club. Signed up for a test last Weds, attended a free study session on Thurs where the club training officer spent two hours breaking things down, passed the test on Friday.

I get that some of these guys come across snobbish on forums. But I think a lot of the complaints about their behavior is similar to showing up to a local track day with a hayabusa and no motorcycle endorsement and complaining that the regulars arent being friendly.

You can drive your car on your own land all you want...that’s your right.  But driving on tax funded roads maintained by the state etc is a privilege. There’s nothing endowed by the creator or in the constitution about your right to drive....

Holy Stockholm Syndrome

Government takes half of ever dollar you make but they kind of maintain roads so you should be grateful peasant.

the mentally competent person you mention would effectively have a walkie talky, yes it could be useful, but nowhere near as effective as actually getting a license, practicing and learning what works best in your area.

Correct a walkie talkie that could be programmed to the same frequency as other people you may be working with from other areas or groups and with more power for better range. That is all most of these guys want and some of the folks on here are acting like using a handheld is impossible without intense training.

Does using a handheld effectively require intense training? No, but some research, practice and maybe local advice yes.

Without using a repeater you are severely limiting your effectiveness.
I got my ham so that I can connect to several repeaters in my area, dial in my equipment and practice before shtf.

It is the difference between the lights going out and turning on my radio to preset channels to reach out to previous made contacts vs hoping I can figure it out.

Also make contacts with people who can share news, weather, traffic, and closure information in the future without disclosing anything about myself other than my interest in radio and my address which shows up on google already.

Arfcom transmitting on their BFs

That's good. With the way things are going, hang onto that job.

For everybody else...it may be a concern.

Because plenty of ham operators would be willing to tear you a new one for using your handheld on FRS and MURS. They're not the right type acceptance, so you were engaged in illegal activity.

And also...A LOT of motorcycle riders don't get a motorcycle license. Especially for track toys.

I have certainly seen the "get the license" cult on here and other boards. A lot of ham operators seem to be nerdy boomer loosers who are nothing more than a medium size fish in a tiny pond.

However my anecdotal in person experience has been drastically different. The local ham club held my hand through the whole process and stopped just short of taking the test for me.

Ok, for the analogy perhaps a kid on a hayabusa showing up to a group ride without a license.

I am not trying to get to tied up in the analogy but a huge percentage of motorcycle fatalities are unlicensed.



Dont get it twisted, I dont want to give uncle sam a single penny. We are over taxed and over ruled.

Radio frequencies have to be regulated and controlled so there is not interference. Radio is the premise of cellular phone service, garage door openers and other remote control devices, AM and FM radio, WiFi internet, etc. the frequencies that we are permitted to use are literally worth billions of dollars and could be allocated to other services if under utilized or abused.

It’s a naive argument to claim that a system of anarchy with no governance is the answer. Some level of organization is essential. This is not an infringement upon your rights. And it is not brainwashing.

That's because a huge number of riders are unlicensed. Put it this way. In the MSF class I took when I started riding, there were about 10 people in it. Half of those people already owned bikes and had rode them on the street and track for years (some, multiple decades) and they were just now deciding to get the license (the class is the easier, and funner, way to get the license in WI). The half were newbies like myself.

I get what you're trying to say with your analogy, but it's really not a great analogy. Nobody in that world equates riding skill with a license. It's as silly as saying someone would be incapable of effective self defense with a pistol because they don't have a CCW license. In fact, if we want to relate this motorcycle thing back to the ham and licensing argument again, most riders (and you can see that in every motorcycle thread on this forum) will tell newbies to take the MSF course, but mention nothing about the license.

And yet 99% of the people using FRS or MURS do just fine. Even most of the people on CB do just fine, although there definitely are issues there.

It doesn't have to be radio anarchy just because some bands are unlicensed.

Licensing (in general) has several purposes.  It is used to generate revenue, to limit access of a limited resource, to insure a minimum level of technical knowledge, to require continuing education...  With ham radio - the 2nd and the 3rd are the biggest factors.
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I don't think there is an easy to find list of times that the FCC has knocked on the doors of amateur operators.  But given the history of build your own - it is easy enough to see how equipment could have been outside the license parameters (transmitting out of band, transmitting with massive harmonics or distortion)...  I am not saying I ever inhaled - but I used to know of several people who could talk through every tv in town that was under the 1500 watt signal they were shooting off a directional antenna.  The main way to prevent complaints was they waited for the broadcast signals to go off the air before they hit TX.