Listen, it goes like this......


Once you are old enough( it varies) You will realize just how clueless you were at 21.. let alone 18.

As to the "Old enough to serve.." crowd. I was NEVER denied a drink while in uniform. Then again I had the balls to wear one when it wasn't cool to be a serviceman.

DISCLAIMER:
This is my opinion, and worth EXACTLY what you paid for it.

I don't think that driver's licenses and alcohol age requirements are in the correct order. In almost every other country, the drinking age is 2-5 years below the age for a driver's license, and that makes more sense to me to have people know about what alcohol does to you before you are allowed to drive, so you know what you are capabel of. Anything else, you should have to show that are able to do whatever it is.

Drinking:
18 - Many High School seniors could legally drink, and many couldn't, so there were problems  to solve this, a few states raised the age to 19.  Then, the Gov't held highway funding away from all the states if they didn't change it to 21.

Guns:
Many kids are much more irrepsonsible with handguns than rifles, mostly because of the "macho appeal".  They want a handgun to look "nifty" or have a neat toy.  This is (sadly) before they are fully competent in safety and shooting.  

20 years ago, somebody who was 18 was at about the same maturity level as somebody that is 22 today (or older, I am being generous on that one).  The gov't is raising the age limits to keep up with the wimping-down/pussification of America.  

The kids of today (there are a few exceptions, but rare) are out of touch with reality and lost in video games, MTV, and learning how to put their hat on crooked "just right", and exactly how far down their ass they should wear their pants.   If they get hurt, them (or their parents), immediately want to blame somebody else.   Watchin TV continually has got reality switched around with reality.  

Sadly, the reason the voting age of 18 will never change is because if it was raised, it would cut out a huge chunk of the liberals' constituents.

Biological time on Earth and "your age" are two different things.  (I am a good example of this).

Back to the topic:  
They are saying you can't have a handgun until you are old enough to drink.  Hmmm.

Shit NO us fifty year olds get fiesty when drinking!!

Bob  [drink]

Quoted: Quoted: Bottom line is 99% of kids under 25 are to frigging dumb to pour piss outta boots with the instructions on the heel. So a compromise of 21 was made to shut the crybabies up. So are you one of those creepy old dudes who sits on your patio all day long pointing your finger at teenagers while giving them dirty looks for no other reason than you think they are up to no good solely because of their youth?

"Hey you! Damn kids get off my lawn"

Quoted: Quoted: This is all bullshit. If 18 is old enough to: A. be legally charged as an adult B. be drafted during war and fight as an adult Then you are old enough to own a gun, drink, and do anything else that an adult citizen may do.  Come on anyone arguing otherwise is being pretty disingenuous. You can be legally charged as an adult at a much younger age then 18.  And you don't have to be 18 to join the service.  (unless that changed recently). But I ubnderstand what you are trying to say, the legal ages for driving, smoking, drinking, and gun ownership should all be raised to 21. Sgtar15

Yeah that's pretty much my point.  I'm in my 30's and don't care whether drinking age is 18, 21 or 25.  I just think it's illogical to essentially have different gradations of legal adulthood.  You're either an adult or you're not.

I remember arguing this same subject...
20 years ago.....






Maybe it isn't fair but we all had to go through it. Learn to live with it and be sure to make fun of all the 20y/o when you turn 21.

I was thinking about this a little while ago and here's what I came up with:

You obviously feel you are mature enough to be allowed to own a gun and buy/drink alcohol. Now, think of someone you know or go to school with the same age as you. Someone who you think is a complete, immature idiot. Now imagine you are the government... and imagine that this guy is the model by which you are basing drinking, driving, and gun laws on. Would you keep things the way they are, change them, or make them harsher?

While there are some people who are pretty advanced for their age, they are definitely NOT the majority, and unfortunately, as you will find out, everything is based on the lowest common denominator. Like when you go to college, you'll see that all your classes might seem dumbed down to you.... well there is at least one guy in the class who will be struggling with it, and that is the guy that they base their lessons plans around. It's stupid, but it's the way it is. It's even like that in the .mil.

Quoted: I'm 19 and want to know why so many things are restricted  to 21 y/o and older?  I can't drink, buy a handgun/handgun ammo.  All NFA firearms are resrticted, for my purchuse. Alot of websites that sell ammo reguire you to be 21 or older.  I thought you are an adult at 18, with this came all rights and privilages, I could be wrong.

Well, some of the idiotic drunk "21 year olds" I meet in my line of work often lead me to the conclusion that you should have to be 30 and over to drink.

Well, the one thing I've learned by reading this this thread is that bad things won't happen if we just make  laws against  them. I've been so silly all these years.

Now if only my state would make murder illegal.....

Quoted: Quoted: Bottom line is 99% of kids under 25 are to frigging dumb to pour piss outta boots with the instructions on the heel. So a compromise of 21 was made to shut the crybabies up. So are you one of those creepy old dudes who sits on your patio all day long pointing your finger at teenagers while giving them dirty looks for no other reason than you think they are up to no good solely because of their youth?

Ya know there is a bit of truth to that statement but I don't sit on the porch and bitch at the kids.
Mostly I look at them with COMPLETE disgust. Pants 5 sizes too big, waist of the pants around their knees with the underpants hanging out, belt 5 sizes too big hanging out, wanting to look like some rapper thug.That GOD awaful bass coming from your speakers. Yup, you guys be cool. Sorry if I offended you, my bad!

Quoted: Well, the one thing I've learned by reading this this thread is that bad things won't happen if we just make  laws against  them. I've been so silly all these years. Now if only my state would make murder illegal.....

Do you really think it would get BETTER if they were allowed to drink and buy handguns at 18 or younger? Think about what you just proposed. I am sure you will come to the same sane conclusion as the current law.

Quoted: Quoted: This is all bullshit. If 18 is old enough to: A. be legally charged as an adult B. be drafted during war and fight as an adult Then you are old enough to own a gun, drink, and do anything else that an adult citizen may do.  Come on anyone arguing otherwise is being pretty disingenuous. Call it what you want!...I think that until you are 25 you are a f-ing clueless tard for the most part!...(we all had to go through it) as for your little "Be drafted during war and fight as an adult" ....Horse shit!...You still have to go throug Basic/Bootcamp to learn the team work skills and respect for the guy next to you.... I would say that the last 10 years has put some turd kids on the streets because mommy and daddy fail'd ya, and did not teach you that!...Now you get to learn about how it is O.K. if two guys stroke eachother off, and that it is not "Sex" if you only stick it in her butt....

Maybe you were clueless until you were 25, but at 21 I was married with kids and had a federal firearms license...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bottom line is 99% of kids under 25 are to frigging dumb to pour piss outta boots with the instructions on the heel. So a compromise of 21 was made to shut the crybabies up. So are you one of those creepy old dudes who sits on your patio all day long pointing your finger at teenagers while giving them dirty looks for no other reason than you think they are up to no good solely because of their youth? Ya know there is a bit of truth to that statement but I don't sit on the porch and bitch at the kids. Mostly I look at them with COMPLETE disgust. Pants 5 sizes too big, waist of the pants around their knees with the underpants hanging out, belt 5 sizes too big hanging out, wanting to look like some rapper thug.That GOD awaful bass coming from your speakers. Yup, you guys be cool. Sorry if I offended you, my bad! www.phillyhiphop.com/_features/snowstorm/whitebling.jpg

The majority of people under 25 I know are nothing like that (except for the bass coming from the speakers), but if you want to structure laws based on stereotypes of age groups then maybe we should take your drivers license away before you, your bad vision and lacking motor skills get behind the wheel of your buick and get into a car accident.

PS, be nice to youth afterall we're going to be ones watching your senile ass when your ungrateful kids shove you into a retirement home

You know, the reasoning that the drinking age should be 21 because 16-20 year old's *might* drink and drive is the same reasoning that we should ban "assault weapons" or handguns because people *might* commit crimes with them.

Quoted: Because at 20 you are still a dumbass....also at 30 for that matter. SGtar15

There it is.

Quoted: Maybe you were clueless until you were 25, but at 21 I was married with kids and had a federal firearms license...

Is that supposed to make you sound smarter or dumber than an 18 y/o?

You know this is one of those questions that is never going to go away. If you lowered the drinking age to 18, some whiny little kid is going to wonder why he can't vote at 16. "I can drive a car, why can't I vote." Then they'll want to know why they can't drink, serve in a voluntary army if they want, etc. etc. etc.

Where do you draw the line? 18? 21? 55? 4?

Truth is that maturity can not be judged by age. While some people are mature at 15 (Ok, I'm stretching it to illustrate the point) others don't mature until they are in their 80's. I've seen childish immature morons who are in their 50's. I've also met some mature well mannered people in their 20's.

However, that isn't really the point. There are always going to be exceptions to the rule, but admit it. They are exceptions, not the rule. Government can't come out and individually say this person can drink, this person can't, this person can vote, this person can't, etc. Besides taking an enormous amount of time (and my tax dollars) to do it, someone would just scream about being excluded for race, religion, etc. Fact is that you can't please EVERYBODY. No matter what the rule is, someone isn't going to like it.

Personally, I just want it all to make sense. I figure if you are old enough to vote, you should be old enough to drink. If you're old enough to join the armed forces, certainly you should be old enough to privately own a gun. Should the age for all of it be 18? 21? 40? I don't really care. Just make them all the same. At least then it would make sense.

I think you should be 18 to drive. Sixteen is too young. Of course, I got my license at 16. HOWEVER, I also had to pay for my first car AND THEN save up the dough to insure it. It took months, even years of responsibility before I could really enjoy the privileges of driving.

Most kids these days get everything handed to them. Consequently, many have no sense of personal responsibility. When you have to pay for your own car, you tend to take care of it better and you know how others feel about their own vehicles.

Quoted: Quoted: Well, the one thing I've learned by reading this this thread is that bad things won't happen if we just make  laws against  them. I've been so silly all these years. Now if only my state would make murder illegal..... Do you really think it would get BETTER if they were allowed to drink and buy handguns at 18 or younger? Think about what you just proposed. I am sure you will come to the same sane conclusion as the current law.

There isn't an ounce of sanity anywhere in our current legal system - the end. I've spent the last 20 years of my life thinking about it.

Law should only come into play when one person has in some way denied another person of their life, limb, liberty or property. If you can show me how a 19-year-old MAN having a beer in his OWN home after work (which he will be taxed for) somehow violates YOUR rights, then I bow before you. But if you can't, then shove your high-and-mighty bullshit right back up your ass where it came from.

A 15-year-old girl has a right to defend herself just like her 35-year-old mother does - if not more.

And by the way, I'm 36, don't drink, and employ 10 people.

Nothing but tyrants around here using the same brand of reasoning Liberals do to justify taking guns away.

I have nothing to add to the subject of "How old is old enough" but this part of the conversation seems pretty freaky-deeky to me....

More of a snippet but: You wanna play with some cool shit, join the military....

WTF over?

Where have I heard such rhetoric.....???

BY JOHN F'N Kerry himself.  It was on the "Firearms News" page on the front of ARFcom a while back.  Kerry was quoted as saying, "IF you want to have an assault weapon, there's a place for you, raise your right hand and take the oath..." (Or something to that extent)  I know because when I read it I hit the fucking roof.  Pure liberalized bullshit.  Unbelievable that it would be repeated, by several posters I might add, on our own site.  Guess what... A 35 yo Asthmatic can't serve in the military, you wanna bar him the ownership/enjoyment of  really cool weapons since he isn't eligible to serve?  


Sly

[deadhorse]

Quoted: You know, the reasoning that the drinking age should be 21 because 16-20 year old's *might* drink and drive is the same reasoning that we should ban "assault weapons" or handguns because people *might* commit crimes with them.

No. It is not. Children 16-20 in the greater majority pay no atention to 'consequences'. Many adults don't either, but for young children - y'all can just wait until you mature some more. Tough.

It's because you believe in dressing like a hoodlum/thug.

Sorry jack, because someone else cannot or will not raise their children correctly does not mean my kids need to be deprived of their rights. My son will have a handgun when he is ready, and that will be up to me and him, not some nameless, faceless dickweed downstate.

Before 1968 any 10-year-old boy could order any handgun he wanted out of the Sears catalog and have it delivered US mail. The problems you seem so worried about did not exsist - so what has changed? The whole "nanny/liberal" over regulated state we all live in, that's what. No one takes resonsibility because they don't have to. Remove the safety net - let people go till they hit a wall or ruin someone's day - then let them take the consequences, as well. You want responsible people then give them some responsability. Treat people, even young ones, like children and they'll act like it.

THERE IS NO AGE LIMIT ON THE BILL OF RIGHTS....get over it.

Quoted: Before 1968 any 10-year-old boy could order any handgun he wanted out of the Sears catalog and have it delivered US mail. The problems you seem so worried about did not exsist - so what has changed?

Quoted: Quoted: Because at 20 you are still a dumbass....also at 30 for that matter.SGtar15 There it is.

folks we have a winner

hookers and blow are on me

Why? Because the 18-20 year olds who came before you fucked it away for those who follow.

Remember that those who made the rules were more than likely able to drink, own guns and not vote when they were 18.

Feel free to show me where I'm wrong captin Photoshop?

Perhaps your not familar with the '1968 Gun Control Act?'

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Because at 20 you are still a dumbass....also at 30 for that matter.SGtar15 There it is. folks we have a winner hookers and blow are on me

I think it's a bit more complex than that.........

From 16 to 30 you think you know it all

From 30 to 40 you begin to realize maybe you don't know it all

Over 40 your realize you never knew shit!

Tj

There is a simple solution to your problem.  Get all the mature 18 year olds to organize and elect representatives that will lower the drinking age and minimum age to purchase hangun/handgun ammo back to 18.  It's the American way.  hinking.gif

FWIW -  I thought the 21 restrictions sucked when I was 18-20, but I grew up in a family of hunters and shooters so I had access to firearms at an early age and lived where a couple of extra bucks could get you all the beer  you wanted.

i'd say most people in the 16-21 range are not responsible enough to own firearms, but that is a result of the years of restrictions and regulations that have been placed on everything.

i'd be willing to bet most 8 year old's 150 years ago were FAR more responsible with firearms then almost all of us are now. everyone had them, there were no restrictions on them, and people were around them from the time they were born.

age restrictions just keep folks ignorant about things until they reach said age. if you raise the minimum age to 40 for drinking and owning firearms, the only thing that is going to change is the age at which people will have their first experiences, mistakes, and fuck-ups with booze and firearms. then the 60 year olds will be saying that these 40 year old kids are barely mature enough to do the things they do.

you can't be responsible about things you have no experience with, and in today's society, most "kids" have little or no experience with firearms (booze is easier to get at 16 then guns, so i won't make any alcohol comments here).

whatever, like i said before, age restrictions just leave you ignorant to whatever the restriction is on until you reach that age. that's bad.