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Posted: 5/21/2001 11:03:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2001 11:02:11 AM EDT by burn]
here is another stupid question.. but i have an AR that i purchased ..my department suplies no firearms not evan are side arms . but they frown on us carring AR's its not PC they say we are not SWAT but i have quallified with it.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:06:45 AM EDT
Simple answer YES! Hunter out...
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:11:04 AM EDT
burn, check your spelling and syntax bud.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:14:48 AM EDT
get a red pen why dont you this is AR15.com not english 101 my points are made yes my grammer suks
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:17:58 AM EDT
Burn, You're department is gambling on the theory of, "it won't happen here." The LAPD learned the hard way when they had to borrow AR 15's from a local pawn shop when the two goons did the hollywood bank robbery. I wonder if the administration you work for has ever given any thought to having to engage an active school shooter at 75 yards with a 12 gauge. Might be pretty risky trying to surgically remove the perp with a beaded 18" slug bore and foolish to try with 00 buck. L.E. is responsible for every round sent down range. It's not like the military, where some "collateral damage" is to be expected. If their perception is that an AR 15 is not "PC" then NEVER test for sergeant at that agency! Augie
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:20:42 AM EDT
And another thing... You say you're not swat. Ask the administration how long it takes SWAT to mobilize, on a good day. My guess is even a full time team will take 30 minutes minimum. That means the street officer has to deal with active shooter type threats. Hard to do your job without the right tools. Augie
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:21:58 AM EDT
Carry whatever the hell you want. When I was in Minneapolis, I saw a cop with an MP-5 where a shottie usually would be. A family friend who was a LEO in Colorado for 13 years always told us that he carried a m-16 the whole time against department policy, and no one said a damn thing.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:25:13 AM EDT
Of course LE should be allowed to have AR's. I go to the University of Washington, and our police department was considering purchasing AR's for the patrol cars. Naturally their was an ourcry and they weren't purchased. So they have their handguns and their shotguns, but no rifles. The proposal was to load the shotguns with beanbags so there would be a less-than-lethal means of taking down bad guys, and have the rifle as a more accurte alternative than either the pistol or shotgun, but that obvously makes too much sense for some people. This is an intersting link I found recently in regards to that Hollywood robbery: [url]http://www.snowcrest.net/marnells/officer.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:26:34 AM EDT
i do keep my AR in my unit and our SWAT team takes like 3 HRS to get together much less mobolized plus half of those guys dont even know how to adjust their kevlars... im transfering soon
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:30:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By burn: here is another stupid question.. but i have an AR that i purchased ..my department suplies no firearms not evan are side arms . but they frown on us carring AR's its not PC they say we are not SWAT but i have quallified with it.
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Does your dept. allow you to carry your a/r? personally, i could care less about p/c when it comes to defending yourself.....a couple local depts. do not allow 45 cal sidearms for pc reasons....40 max.....what a bunch of b/s.....guess people get jittery at cocked and locked carry!...funny, because other depts. allow it and i have seen c&l on duty officers in a restaurant....differances in adm. policy..........[smoke]
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:38:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By black&green: guess people get jittery at cocked and locked carry!...funny, because other depts. allow it and i have seen c&l on duty officers in a restaurant....differances in adm. policy..........[smoke]
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I assume you are speaking of the 1911 style .45? Cocked with the thumb safety on is the safe way to carry that weapon that was how it was designed... that is my acid test for morons, if they say that config is unsafe they 1. Are just plain idiots. 2. Need to be educated. BTW I don't carry one, I carry the invisble, ceramic glock revolver. Hunter out...
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:54:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MindHunter:
Originally Posted By black&green: guess people get jittery at cocked and locked carry!...funny, because other depts. allow it and i have seen c&l on duty officers in a restaurant....differances in adm. policy..........[smoke]
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I assume you are speaking of the 1911 style .45? Cocked with the thumb safety on is the safe way to carry that weapon that was how it was designed... that is my acid test for morons, if they say that config is unsafe they 1. Are just plain idiots. 2. Need to be educated. BTW I don't carry one, I carry the invisble, ceramic glock revolver. Hunter out...
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yes hunter your assumption is correct......at any rate.....the depts. that disallow 45 is in any form of vehicle....my nephew worked for one where he could`nt carry his colt, but bought a berreta96 to comply with dept. policy......political?......i guess!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 12:34:56 PM EDT
As long as I legally own and carry an AR, I have no problem with LE carrying them. Handguns suck! (Since I live in CA and have to hide my mine, I say give 'em oinkers 10/22s and nothing else!)[uzi]
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 2:26:07 PM EDT
Burn, As former LEO and current firearms instuctor, All I can say is that if you have an AR, carry the damn thing no matter what department policy says. Your life is infinitely more valuable than following some ridiculous policy. One of the departments I worked for had shotguns(yippee!!), unfortunately they were kept in the armory so you would have to drive back to the station if you ever needed one! What idiocy!! In my experience, most Departments/Academies/SOs/ teach outdated (and occasionally dangerous) tactics and most LE Administrators dont know, and/or dont care, about the proper application of tactics or the characteristics of a fight. Therefore most policies they dictate in regards to the use of deadly force are not necessarily in line with keeping you alive until retirement. Its is a fact that 70-80% of individuals that get shot with a pistol round survive. And if youre in a fight, the object is to win, not adhere to department policy. Period. Beanbags for shotguns????? I bet Platt and Maddox would have had a field day with that! If I had to fight with a firearm, I would want to make sure it was the biggest thing I could bring to the party. As for rifles in pistols calibers, IMHO if youre gonna carry a rifle, carry a rifle. If you are serious about carrying an AR, I would suggest that you contact Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch(830-640-3138 or www.thunderranchinc.com) and sign up for the Urban Rifle class. I would also highly recommend any of the courses, but for most LEO the best place to start would be with a Defensive Handgun course(I learned more there in a week than the Academy and 5 years of inservice training combined). The facilities and instruction are outstanding. As for carrying a AR vs. just a pistol... As Clint would say: "The reason I would use a pistol would be to fight my way back to the rifle I never should have put down in the first place." Good Luck, Goose p.s. Please excuse any grammatical/spelling errors, I'm nursin a mother of a hangover...
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 2:55:08 PM EDT
I think if I were a cop I would be packing an AR in the car. Always be prepared!
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 3:37:01 PM EDT
If I need a cop, I'll be damn glad when he shows up with an AR. If I rob a bank/kidnap a child/shoot up a school, etc., I'd rather the cops don't come with ARs.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 7:32:01 PM EDT
If the LE is paying out of his own pocket, I say fine, as long as I can buy exactly what he has. No special versions for LE. If it is my tax dollars, I say let 'em use Mini-14s.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 7:45:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2001 7:46:20 PM EDT by The Sniper]
Originally Posted By burn: ....my department supplies no firearms not even our side arms... (spelling adjusted)
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Huh? Your dept. doesn't provide your duty weapon but has a SWAT team!?!? I would transfer as far from there as possible as soon as possible - they are liable to get you dead. You may spend an entire career in such a dept. and never even have to draw your weapon except to qualify..... they do have you qualify don't they? Do they buy your ammo? Then on the other hand the day may come when you fall victim to the apathy that kills more LEOs than anything else by either you or your superiors and you end up dead. End of career and everything else. If they don't forbid you to carry the AR - then by all means lock and load!! And oh by the way... stuff your mags with hollow point ammo - not ball. Ball has way too much penetration and too little expansion. Cover yourself cause it sure seems like your dept. may not. Be a good boy scout - BE PREPARED!! [sniper] [b]The Sniper
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 7:54:57 PM EDT
no sidearm! wow i thought my state was bad.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 8:29:00 PM EDT
Goose hit the nail right square on the head.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:23:00 PM EDT
Sure cops need AR's. You never know what's going to happen in the line of duty.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:35:18 PM EDT
Damn, I wish we were allowed to carry ar's for duty use. My dept doesn't provide sidearm either. Hell when I first started I even had to buy my own extra mag holder for my sam browne. We are allowed to carry shotguns but can only carry OO buck or #4 shot...NO SLUGS.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:58:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2001 10:58:07 PM EDT by Sixgun357]
Originally Posted By Augie: Burn, You're department is gambling on the theory of, "it won't happen here." The LAPD learned the hard way when they had to borrow AR 15's from a local pawn shop when the two goons did the hollywood bank robbery. Augie
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Yeah that one really frosted my cookies. How was that waiting period suppose to go. Those people can dish it out but they cant take it. It is funny how the waiting period goes out the window when your being shot at. Just becuase they were Law enfourcement people they did have to wait. If that was me or you during a riot and we were being shot at sorry. No can do, waiting period. Six Opinions expressed here are not the responsibilty of the poster.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:04:39 PM EDT
I am sorry to answer the question I believe police officers should carry, Shotguns and a carbine of some sorts, perferably one the shoots a rifle round. either a Mini 14 or an AR-15. I have seen police departments even carrying M1 carbines. Six
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:54:21 AM EDT
it would be nice if cops didn't have to carry any firearms at all. if our cj system worked, the existing guns laws enforced and no criminals had access to guns - cops would not need guns. i think being unarmed would make police officers more approachable and more apt to help the public vs. the 'we are above the law' metality that some of the guys get. if you watch the 'climax' scenes of british police dramas (minds out of the gutter lads!) the plodie has to use his mind to stop the criminal, vs a hail of lead. of course this would only really work in mayberry with sherrif andy - but it's a nice thought anyway... steve
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 12:34:25 PM EDT
Carry it. Protect yourself and enjoy the comfort that possesing gives you. Remeber that feeling if that left leaning dept. of yours asks you to confiscate weapons from good citizens.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 9:51:14 PM EDT
>>get a red pen why dont you this is AR15.com not english 101 my points are made yes my grammer suks<< The point that is made is that you cannot communicate properly. That is fairly important, as a large part of the LEO job involves accurate and correct communication. The most devastating cross-examination I ever saw in court was a lawyer that took an officer through his report word by word, asking him to explain what he meant every time there was a spelling or grammar error.
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