I think this is just a sign that people in general have lost faith in our institutions.  Trust is gone.

We bought freeze dried #10 cans of various vegetables, fruits, chicken, beef, and so on.  We bought very little MRE type FD'd foods unless the sale was good enough to grab it for storage.  In addition we bought canned veggies, meats and so on.  Spices, flour, cans of instant mashed potatoes (just add water) plus freezer full of stuff.  The Honda 2800I commercial generator was a good buy at $1100 at Home Depot last year.  That's enough genny to boost freezers, fridges and I think the bedroom minisplit system.  

Rechargeable batteries were a hole I had but filled last week.  

I wonder if I'm going to be the old guy that dies with all this stuff in the store room...

There's always a set of people driven to extend a full cupboard into redundant fallout bunkers. They never went away, it was like this in the Y2K panic and the 1990s.

Nah, that’s crazy.

We’ll just stock up when our republic has been turned into the laughing stock of despotism and criminal overthrowS around the world.

Or when the country is igniting with violence and the peaceful side of the country is accused of being terrorists.

Or when the private bank that creates money from thin air has created nearly 35% of all dollars since the founding of the US Treasury in 1790... in a single year!

No, no reasons at all to sound the alarms and make sure that regardless of the rest of the world, my kids can eat.  That’s crazy and outlandish, what in the world would ever make me think that my farm would want to eat....

Don't forget:

We'll go from having never planted anything, to growing all of our family's food on a quarter acre lot as soon as things turn south.

To add to that I get the "we will be able to hunt for food" folks quite a bit lately. Yea, you and the other 25,000 people in this county. We will strip the woods bare within weeks.

Assuming the average city dweller on a quarter acre gets started now while supply chain exists, I think it's easier to sustain a family now than ever before.  In fact I'd bet the average suburban family would be able to do it as well or better than the typical farm family 150 years ago.  We have so many tools, seeds, chemicals and ideas that it should be possible.

It's still work, but I have a dump trailer and I can spend a half day's wages and get a decades worth of soil improvement in about an hour.  I can spend another day's wages and have a watering/irrigation system that would allow me to grow in otherwise inhospitable environments with maybe an hour a week invested, compared to canals, ditches, dams and constant silting and maintaining.

Where I live we have a very short growing season, we can't even get tomatoes to ripen outdoors here.  The pioneers were essentially only able to grow a single crop, rye.  Even wheat doesn't do well because of the lack of water, poor soil and hot summertime temps.  And yet, I'm growing lemons, limes, bananas....  A bit of modern tech is incredible.  But so is modern ineptitude.  I have a feeling a lot of people will have a very tough time.

If you thoroughly rinse your corn, green beans, etc., are you really getting that much sodium?

Soup and things would be different, but I've always felt like canned vegetables were relatively easy to minimize the sodium.

My freezer obviously won't be super long term, but frozen meat and canned vegetables seem to be good things to stock up on.

I also get sodium free canned tomatoes and sauce, and have a fair amount of low sodium soups, which honestly isn't very low sodium

Most of the sodium is in the water.  If you can veggies yourself you don’t need to add any salt.  I ate a can of green beans from 1962 that we found in my grandma’s house when we had to sell it two years ago. It was still good.

Spam fort thread?

Watch those prions though...

 Don't you think that every country it has happened in thought the same thing?   And that was at a time when people had more control over their food source (eg had gardens,  canning,  goats and chickens e.t.c).

They haven’t lost faith in the concept.

“If we can just touch the burner in this certain way, that no one has tried before, surely we won’t get burned this time.”

Attached File

I‘ve had that feeling lately as well, and I’m not even that old, lol.

It’s an odd combination of confirmation bias and misplaced confidence.

On the bright side, there will probably be a Daddy Warbucks to offer anyone help in exchange for “manual labor“ working his dirty deeds. Somehow I doubt they’ll feel their labor was adequately compensated.

And this is the best reason to just buy more of what you eat on a regular basis instead of only tons of "survival foods"

Just because they're more vulnerable, doesn't mean they can't cause you trouble.

Not to mention using inflation as a weapon...




When has food supply not featured as a problem in commie revolutions and attempted revolutions?   Hint: never.  There is nothing magical about North America that makes us immune.

One thing that can help beginners a lot is just figuring out what grows prolifically in your area. For me cherry tomatoes are the dumbest easy thing to grow. Okra, sugar snap peas during their short season, broccoli, and blackberries are all very easy to grow where I live.  And pecan trees, if you're looking for a long-term investment, will produce large amounts of pecans every year.

If you're bad at gardening, or just starting out, or don't have much time to invest you could just focus on things like this and get a good return on your time and money spent.

What's the alternative?

Everything in life is a trade-off.

I used to design water/wastewater treatment facilities.  I gave a few classes to small groups about small-scale and emergency water treatment and I always got the same questions/comments about chlorine.

"We shouldn't use chlorine, it causes cancer"  "I'd rather use (fill in with one herb or another, or an essential oil or whatever) than chlorine because it destroys DNA and causes cancer".

I remind them that life is a LOT better when you live pretty healthy to 65 instead of the entire city dying of disease as children.  Yeah, there are things associated with chlorine that are linked with cancer, but none of that is as bad as watching your children die of dysentery.

Canned food is food.  Yeah, high salt.  Plan around that and make it part of your preps.  If it's 100% of your preps, you should also plan on drinking a lot of water, which means lots of chlorine, lol.

I think he's more poking at the actual knowledge and gumption. Sure if you started now with the vast knowledge to be found on the net and with a somewhat afloat economy now is definitely the time. That being said if you wait until the time where we need emergency food especially in the general scenario being thought out here (communist insurrection) theyll be using the food supply for control. So I doubt you will be able to find the knowledge on their internet at that point.

Point is if you have an interest in this you should be studying and maybe learning now.

Yeah, I know.  And I agree 100%.  I guess I was just stating that it's easier than ever to fix that problem and become a reasonable producer of your own food- if you'll just invest the care.

Even on a suburban lot, with chickens, rabbits and a good garden I could reduce my dependence on a grocery store a LOT.  But yeah, it requires someone that WILL do it.  That's pretty rare.

A few fruit & nut trees, and a patch of raspberries will eventually yield a lot of food.

I was thinking about starting some tomato plants from seed over the winter. Do you guys know what would be a good source for seeds and a good type for a zone 6b?

I really like black krim and they work great in zone 6.

Seed savers has them in stock but they’re backed up about 30 days.

Or Rare seed


If you’re looking for a sauce tomato I’d go with a paste like San Marzano or Amish Paste. The San Marzano we had last year was amazing. Even with the leaves fried from heat & poor weather in the fall the tomatoes stayed perfect on the vine, and would last for a week on the ground if they dropped.

Unless you have a perfect year, you’re best to start them early inside, otherwise a spring rain or last frost could wipe them out or stunt them to where they barely produce fruit.

People also like Fedco for seeds if they’re on the east coast.

I think I might get a few that EOTWAWKI mentioned above, but I'm not much of a tomato guy.  Lot of other people are always growing tomatoes and have an abundance, they take up too much room in my greenhouse and they just don't have a lot of calorie density.  So they just don't motivate me to do much.  We have several in the greenhouse now but only because in September a friend gave me a ton of little tiny plants that he'd starved all summer and had to get out of the way in the fall.  I'll likely have to kill a few to clear out the space, they've done pretty well all winter.

Utah/Mountain West guys:

Smith's/Kroger has whole brisket on sale for $1.99/lb. Its choice grade, but one of the cheaper prices I've seen in a while.

Should be good across Utah and I would assume Idaho/Colorado as well, but might want to check locally first.

Sale started today and will go through this next Tuesday.

I mean if it gets to that point,  what difference is 3 months of food reserve vs. 1 year.....

A growing season.

The same folks with new, unfired pistols and the obligatory box of boolits in the underwear drawer will be the same ones staring at picked over shelves......still bitching.

Get it now while plentiful and cheap.

Good to know, we've got a Kroger.... in Provo?  I think that's the closest for me.


The first 3 months would be the toughest. I read about Chile going from socialism to capitalism, there were several markers that were closely watched by both the US gov't (back with the US gov't sponsored capitalism) and the new Chilean govt.  On of them was the price of eggs, on the outset eggs were crazy expensive and supply was terrible.  After a few months the price started to fall as the production increased.  After two years eggs were cheap.

It's those first few months where people have to find their new way to achieve and thrive.  Guys will see a lack of supply and decide to fill that lack, but it takes logistics and infrastructure.  The farmer has to develop new or larger sources of chicken feed, ways to move product to market, pricing....  

I'd argue the three month food storage is the single most important, not the least important.

Three months of chances to figure out how to feed your family in months four and beyond, instead of watching them starve after eating Fido and Fluffy.

It also gives you options when it’s simply shortages. There may be food, but not enough or not what you need.  Having some food lets you maintain a status quo instead of operating in a deficit.

And consider this, just because you live in the ‘country’ doesn’t mean the farmers will be tripping over themselves to feed you. In fact, they might not be growing vegetables and cereal grains. I’ve never eaten milo, and I’d hate to trade my daddy’s .270 for a bushel of it.

Coc#4

Coc#4, #6, #7

HEAR HEAR

Peace and Prosperity are not the rule in this world now nor in history. America has been blessed but nothing lasts forever. Try living without electricity for a few weeks in the typical modern home. Try living without a lot of gasoline easily available. Try living without affordable easy to obtain food from a grocery for a few weeks. That happens from time to time when disaster strikes an area. Now imagine it nationwide with no unaffected areas to rush in to help. You should have some basic preperation to surivive for a few weeks if need be on your own. Beyond that unless you are rich you are going to need support and help from working with others locally - family, friends, and community. Shelter (heat in the colder regions), water, food, basic medical and means to defend yourself and family. And family, friends, and community you can work with.

Thank you both! I don't have a greenhouse, but I have a big window in a room with southern exposure. Not going for sauce; I just love a good tomato. I slice them up and eat them with a little salad dressing. I grow them in containers during the summer and usually buy plants from a local nursery, but the yield hasn't been great despite what I think is decent sun, so I thought I might try starting some from seed to maybe get a head start and see what happens.

Yeah, l don't think there's a Smith's in Spanish Fork, but Provo/Vineyard/Springville should have one.

I've got a pretty good relationship with the gal who orders meat at our local store. She's got a couple set aside for me.

If you have any issues grabbing some let me know and I can probably work a little magic for you.

I was just thinking that I would look around for more info and advice about buying and storing food. Did I overlook it, or do we NOT have a prepping subforum somewhere here?

https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/

@Emoto

Personally, I am stocking bullets.

That doesn't sound like it is going to be very filling when the grocery stores are empty and your family's tummies are a grumbling. After all you can only eat the one bullet.

ETA: Shit, I should have been paying closer attention. I wasted post 1,000 on this.

Yesterday my wife turned 6lbs of chicken breast meat (bought on sale) into 8 pints of chicken cubes in a delicious broth.

A few days ago we canned split pea soup.
This is why you should cook your dried beans and peas now, and can them.
It took 4 1/2 hours to cook the soup, and when we canned them, we had to keep them at pressure for 75 minutes, because of the ham.
Same with the chicken, or any meat. 75 minutes at pressure for a pint.

We found a recipe in an  old Betty Crocker cookbook, used a pound of split peas, used two pints of chicken broth and two pints of water instead of 4 pints of water, cooked it and tried it for Supper. It was good, so the next day we doubled the recipe, added the first batch (it was solid out of the fridg), and canned three pounds of split peas and two big slices of ham ,cut into small cubes. Yielded 15 pints. Should have put two more pints of broth in and gotten 17 pints, because the soup thickened as it canned. Everything turned out well, but it's solid. If it doesn't thin as it's warmed up, then we should have added 5 pints of broth instead of 2. Live and learn. We can always thin it.

Tomorrow she's going shopping and I think chicken breast is on sale again.
I know water is.
A few other bulk items also, along with the little stuff.

That bold part up there...seriously, if you have beans and a pressure canner, consider canning a bunch of it now, while it's easy to regulate the heat and cooking time. We've canned lima bean and ham soup, red beans, pinto beans, chick peas, because it's easier to do it now than it will be if I'm trying on a wood burning stove...in June.

Thanks!

Something simple and rewarding to start with is making your own jam. That can get you an idea of how the process works, and experience with simple water bath canning. Then you can decide if you want to move into more complicated things like canning meat, pressure canning, etc.

We started canning when we were doing a lot of gardening.

My wife bought a 16 quart aluminum Presto pressure canner.
We already had a hot  water bath canner and she had been making jelly for a few years. It's medium sized, but it's as big as we can fit on our cooktop. The electric burner is only so big, there is a microwave directly above limiting height.

A 16 quart pressure canner will hold 10 pints, or 8 large mouth pints, or 8 quarts.
Aluminum is cheaper than stainless steel, but you can't cook food directly in an aluminum canner, and you CAN cook food directly in a stainless steel canner.

So we saved money and gave up the option of cooking a large roast in a fraction of the time it takes in the oven. Same with bean soup. The split peas that took 4 1/2 hours to cook would have cooked much faster, but you have to have a recipe, and a stainless steel canner. You can't just take the lid off of a pressure canner to check progress. It takes time to come up to pressure, and it takes time (15 minutes?) to drop the pressure before you can take the lid off. Taking the lid off of a canner under pressure would send boiling water, steam, and broken glass all over your kitchen.

So we were gardening and decided to can some green beans and some vegetable soup. Some carrots. We had some jars, so we bought more. Used at estate sales, new on sale, extra flats and rings. The rings get damaged frequently, so we always have plenty of spare flats.

You can stack pints on a wide mouth pint, so we have both. We have some shelves that allow us to stack a small mouth pint on top of a large mouth pint. That saves us some room. We can some things in quarts, but we use mostly pints. It's just the two of us.

If we had children at home, we would can vegetable soup in quarts. At the end of the season, when the soups have been made and the tomatoes are petering out, we can quarts of tomato juice.

The vegetable soup is easy and flexible. Pints take 20-30 minutes at pressure, and quarts are a few minutes more.
You can add a pint of canned chicken or cook some rice or barley and toss it in for variety, at mealtime.

Green beans and carrots are easy.
You just have to remember to put canning salt in every jar unless the recipe does not call for it. Canning salt has no iodine. Table salt has iodine. Don't use table salt if you need canning salt.

After you have bought a pressure canner, jars, rings, and flats are the expensive stuff. They are REALLY expensive right now. Buy in the off season (now) if you can. Always check the jar rims for chips, check the flats for dents in the rim or on top, and check the "paint" finish inside the flat. If it's scratched, it will rust eventually.

Canning takes work. It's worth it. If you have a garden you need something to do with the overflow of vegetables when it stops raining and you can get in and pick. The jars aren't sprayed with a coating inside that degrades over time, so it keeps better on the shelf and is better for you.

Any new pressure canner should come with a cookbook, and the Ball cookbook is a classic that you can find anywhere you buy jars.

That sounds delicious!

See, I'm the other way around. I think pressure canning is simpler. I don't have to worry about the pectin, or if it will thicken, or splattering water all over . . .

I imagine if you don't have a gas stove it's more difficult though. I'm so grateful my house came with the stove that it did.

This.

Im growing and raising some now.

Pressure canning is totally doable on an electric cooktop. Wife does it all the time.