User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:16:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: During that period, there were a lot of decisions made with "what gets the most equipment in service, in the shortest amount of time" as the main criteria. Yep. Cost and manpower considerations were a VERY distant second in priority in 1942, if they were considered at all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:20:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only way to truly learn that language is to go to IDC school. The flip side is you'll drink up that lifestyle through a firehose. Bad pun, given this thread... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:20:59 AM EDT
[#3]
Is the fire completely out now ?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:22:26 AM EDT
[#4]
She holds a million gallons of fuel??
Holy cow. I would guess most of that is some kind of bunker oil, so that would be about 8 pounds per gallon. 8 million pounds! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:26:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She holds a million gallons of fuel?? Holy cow. Â I would guess most of that is some kind of bunker oil, so that would be about 8 pounds per gallon. Â 8 million pounds! Closer to two. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:28:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She holds a million gallons of fuel?? Holy cow. I would guess most of that is some kind of bunker oil, so that would be about 8 pounds per gallon. 8 million pounds! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:29:07 AM EDT
[#7]
Live w/audio
 #BREAKING: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire at Naval Base San Diego |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:34:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The USS Nassau would be a decent choice....not F-35 capable but MV-22 capable.. Â been in reserve about 10 years. It would need an overhaul...but it's a hull... Peleliu has been decommed about 5 years... might be a better choice. hopefully not the same private contractors hired for the BHR. lol |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:40:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Closer to two. Mind officially blown. I wonder if anaerobic bacteria is an issue with that much fuel sitting in giant tanks for long stretches of time. I recall the Brits had a problem with av gas spoilage in the Caribbean at one point. I think it was in the 1950s. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:53:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mind officially blown. I wonder if anaerobic bacteria is an issue with that much fuel sitting in giant tanks for long stretches of time. I recall the Brits had a problem with av gas spoilage in the Caribbean at one point. I think it was in the 1950s. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:59:42 AM EDT
[#11]
How is the air this morning?
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:01:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Time to pull the two Tarawa-class hulls we have in reserve, send them for major overhaul then to the fleet.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:04:50 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has additives to prevent that kind of stuff. We had equipment that would sit on MPF ships for two years at a time, fuel quality usually wasn't an issue when activating that equipment. We usually had more problems with seals because the equipment didn't get exercised in those two years. Rotten seals and bunker oil sounds like you would need a shit load of paper towels. Like 2 billion rolls per tour.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:13:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: The Forrestal fire video, when that major explosion takes out the fire party, your heart sinks watching it. My dad pulled a LtJg out of the A-4 forward of McCain’s. The pilot was stuck upside down in his foot in his harness and my dad and another sailor cut the pilot loose. The pilot broke his hip or his leg I can’t remember on the fall. They got him into the catwalk right when the first bomb explosion went off. My dad doesn’t talk much about that day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:16:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bunch of mostly 19 year-olds knowingly walking into hell. Fair winds gentlemen. Dude at about 1:15 looks like a helluva leader. Good clear direction, and leading from the front. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:17:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Sadly no matter times people are corrected on that point the same old BS keeps coming up. There's plenty of reasons to hate McCain, his actions on the the USS Forrestal isn't one of them. ETA: They also forget this part: After the Forrestal disaster McCain volunteered for duty on the USS Oriskany (he could have gone home) and was shot down and became a POW. Interesting enough, the Oriskany had a fire of her own a year earlier than Forrestal and lost 44 crew. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:18:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryFuck. You can see the frames under the flight deck. It burned the nonskid off. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:21:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Probably should have spent some time learning how to spell "ordnance" Yea fat finger and autocorrect. Thanks grammar police. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:23:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: You guys are such fuckers.  I have not read the thread. When AFFF is offline there is supposed to be redundant roving fire watchmen, fire team on standby, and a plan to restore as much suppression capability as possible. AFFF offline should be a limited and segmented disengagement of protections; not a complete abandonment of capability. It's possible that all of that happened properly and we still ended up with this situation. The repair contracts are going to be AMAZING. Just the test, assessment, and evaluation is a redo of plank owner qualification at a minimum. Metallurgical sampling. Frequency modeling of proposed refitment solutions. I'm always amazed at shipbuilding line items. Lol I typed it quick. Probably should have proofed it. Fuck it. Carried around enough of both A triple F and ORDNANCE so I ain’t even mad. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:26:52 AM EDT
[#20]
GW had a main space fire several years ago, fuel spill into the shaft alley.
They were at sea and nearly lost her. No outside assistance coming in a situation like that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:28:05 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Fuck. You can see the frames under the flight deck. It burned the nonskid off. Yea that ripple is where the deck is compromised due to heat. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:32:38 AM EDT
[#22]
When I made this thread I didn't think the fire would have been this bad
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:33:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: When I made this thread I didn't think the fire would have been this bad Or still be burning! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:36:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or still be burning! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When I made this thread I didn't think the fire would have been this bad Or still be burning! I’m just thrilled we didn’t lose anyone. Can’t wait for the full “WTF Happened” report though. This is an impressive reminder for a lot of safety practices. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:43:47 AM EDT
[#25]
Looking at the preliminary interior damage there is no way they will rebuild her. She will be stricken. Looks like her elevators are compromised. The cableways for the elevators are in bad shape as well as pulleys. The hangar bay doors are damaged. The overhead in hangar bay looks totally gutted and you can see massive damage to the overhead and bulkheads. Every single hatch will need to be removed and checked for warp. That alone is cost prohibitive. Her combat systems on the island forward and aft are destroyed. Her directors are destroyed. Her 48E is gone. Her 49 is damaged. I can’t see her forward CIWS. Is it even there? Her NSSM is intact but the launcher drive and control is likely destroyed and her fwd RAM launcher is damaged. I can’t see the engineer spaces damage but this much salt water has probably flooded most below deck spaces including engineering. It’s simply not gonna be possible budget wise to rebuild. We also don’t have the shipyard capacity. Our maintenance availabilities are scheduled years in advance.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 11:13:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at the preliminary interior damage there is no way they will rebuild her.  She will be stricken.  Looks like her elevators are compromised.  The cableways for the elevators are in bad shape as well as pulleys. The hangar bay doors are damaged. The overhead in hangar bay looks totally gutted and you can see massive damage to the overhead and bulkheads.  Every single hatch will need to be removed and checked for warp.  That alone is cost prohibitive.  Her combat systems on the island forward and aft are destroyed.  Her directors are destroyed.  Her 48E is gone.  Her 49 is damaged.  I can’t see her forward CIWS.  Is it even there?  Her NSSM is intact but the launcher drive and control is likely destroyed and her fwd RAM launcher is damaged.  I can’t see the engineer spaces damage but this much salt water has probably flooded most below deck spaces including engineering.  It’s simply not gonna be possible budget wise to rebuild.  We also don’t have the shipyard capacity.  Our maintenance availabilities are scheduled years in advance. Based on the limited photos and information presently I have to agree with you. She's lost. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 11:18:03 AM EDT
[#27]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 11:18:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at the preliminary interior damage there is no way they will rebuild her.  She will be stricken.  Looks like her elevators are compromised.  The cableways for the elevators are in bad shape as well as pulleys. The hangar bay doors are damaged. The overhead in hangar bay looks totally gutted and you can see massive damage to the overhead and bulkheads.  Every single hatch will need to be removed and checked for warp.  That alone is cost prohibitive.  Her combat systems on the island forward and aft are destroyed.  Her directors are destroyed.  Her 48E is gone.  Her 49 is damaged.  I can’t see her forward CIWS.  Is it even there?  Her NSSM is intact but the launcher drive and control is likely destroyed and her fwd RAM launcher is damaged.  I can’t see the engineer spaces damage but this much salt water has probably flooded most below deck spaces including engineering.  It’s simply not gonna be possible budget wise to rebuild.  We also don’t have the shipyard capacity.  Our maintenance availabilities are scheduled years in advance. That’s another thing, tons of saltwater and AFFF mix have been put down. The scope of the fire makes that pretty much moot but it’s going to have to be torn down to the metal for a damage assessment. Fwd NATO director is right in front of the mast that shit is a goner. Pri Fly probably gone, FD control gone. If the fire went from lower v to the 06 lvl medical is probably gone too. Ditto CIC. So many systems are likely fully compromised. Fire main, AFFF, weapons elevators, aircraft elevators, the LAN. I like to think we can fix anything but that’s a lot of money and time and a lot of that old shit isn’t exactly sitting on shelves. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 11:20:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at the preliminary interior damage there is no way they will rebuild her.  She will be stricken.  Looks like her elevators are compromised.  The cableways for the elevators are in bad shape as well as pulleys. The hangar bay doors are damaged. The overhead in hangar bay looks totally gutted and you can see massive damage to the overhead and bulkheads.  Every single hatch will need to be removed and checked for warp.  That alone is cost prohibitive.  Her combat systems on the island forward and aft are destroyed.  Her directors are destroyed.  Her 48E is gone.  Her 49 is damaged.  I can’t see her forward CIWS.  Is it even there?  Her NSSM is intact but the launcher drive and control is likely destroyed and her fwd RAM launcher is damaged.  I can’t see the engineer spaces damage but this much salt water has probably flooded most below deck spaces including engineering.  It’s simply not gonna be possible budget wise to rebuild.  We also don’t have the shipyard capacity.  Our maintenance availabilities are scheduled years in advance. So the penalty for taking out a billion dollar plus warship is a slap on the wrist from what I have been reading? How is that even possible? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 11:25:51 AM EDT
[#30]
I'm heartsick after seeing those pics taken from the helo.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 11:31:32 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is the air this morning? A lot better than yesterday morning. I can still smell it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 11:41:19 AM EDT
[#32]
So sad to see this happen to a great ship, but also, and more importantly, super-pleased that there was no loss of life.
I'll now be curious to see how much will actually be salvageable off of her. Maybe some engineering stuff in the lower decks? I suspect virtually all electronics and combat systems are completely ruined. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 11:47:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Just flipped through the pictures I took of her in better days
Crazy to see |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 11:50:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at the preliminary interior damage there is no way they will rebuild her.  She will be stricken.  Looks like her elevators are compromised.  The cableways for the elevators are in bad shape as well as pulleys. The hangar bay doors are damaged. The overhead in hangar bay looks totally gutted and you can see massive damage to the overhead and bulkheads.  Every single hatch will need to be removed and checked for warp.  That alone is cost prohibitive.  Her combat systems on the island forward and aft are destroyed.  Her directors are destroyed.  Her 48E is gone.  Her 49 is damaged.  I can’t see her forward CIWS.  Is it even there?  Her NSSM is intact but the launcher drive and control is likely destroyed and her fwd RAM launcher is damaged.  I can’t see the engineer spaces damage but this much salt water has probably flooded most below deck spaces including engineering.  It’s simply not gonna be possible budget wise to rebuild.  We also don’t have the shipyard capacity.  Our maintenance availabilities are scheduled years in advance. Not to be contrary, but just chalk test in place for doors, hatches and scuttles- that would give you a quick read on alignment. Gasket missing? Might have a point. Mark it, note it and install a gasket later. Rust will be a major, major issue throughout the entire ship. More to your stance, I was looking at the sideport pic and thinking about the crane. The heat may have melted the grease off the chain and boiled out the oil in the greasebox. Even that overhaul will be 8 manhours. Do the LHD's still have the cargo trams in the welldeck? Another HUGE time sink. ETA: Did the LHD's get trams? I don't know so I'm asking. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 11:56:50 AM EDT
[#35]
According to Rear Admiral Philip Sobeck, the Navy believes the fire was started by drywall supplies in a storage area in the lower half of the ship.
 Blaze continues aboard USS Bonhomme Richard on San Diego Bay |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:06:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to Rear Admiral Philip Sobeck, the Navy believes the fire was started by drywall supplies in a storage area in the lower half of the ship.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STgn4cpSepIDrywall or tri-walls? Not too much use for drywall on a ship. Tri-walls on the other hand are giant cardboard boxes you put supplies in. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:20:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Drywall or tri-walls? Not too much use for drywall on a ship. Tri-walls on the other hand are giant cardboard boxes you put supplies in. Tri-walls is what I heard. Civ's won't know what those are and would "hear" dry wall. Tri-walls are Connex boxes. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:27:09 PM EDT
[#38]
#1 most likely cause - sabotage.
Cardboard does not spontaneously combust. #2 most likely - lithium ion battery had an internal short circuit and started a fire. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:29:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at the preliminary interior damage there is no way they will rebuild her.  She will be stricken.  Looks like her elevators are compromised.  The cableways for the elevators are in bad shape as well as pulleys. The hangar bay doors are damaged. The overhead in hangar bay looks totally gutted and you can see massive damage to the overhead and bulkheads.  Every single hatch will need to be removed and checked for warp.  That alone is cost prohibitive.  Her combat systems on the island forward and aft are destroyed.  Her directors are destroyed.  Her 48E is gone.  Her 49 is damaged.  I can’t see her forward CIWS.  Is it even there?  Her NSSM is intact but the launcher drive and control is likely destroyed and her fwd RAM launcher is damaged.  I can’t see the engineer spaces damage but this much salt water has probably flooded most below deck spaces including engineering.  It’s simply not gonna be possible budget wise to rebuild.  We also don’t have the shipyard capacity.  Our maintenance availabilities are scheduled years in advance. Based on your assessment, we'll have to give up the Bonhomme Richard.... How ironic.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:32:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryI was wondering where the camera for that feed was located, because you can see the tower at the top of the Hotel Del Coronado in the lower left. A few minutes ago the view zoomed out and back in. The camera is way out on Point Loma, near the Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery or Cabrillo National Monument. It's a very long lens. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:38:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was wondering where the camera for that feed was located, because you can see the tower at the top of the Hotel Del Coronado in the lower left. A few minutes ago the view zoomed out and back in. Â The camera is way out on Point Loma, near the Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery or Cabrillo National Monument. Â It's a very long lens. Quote HistoryQuoted: I was wondering where the camera for that feed was located, because you can see the tower at the top of the Hotel Del Coronado in the lower left. A few minutes ago the view zoomed out and back in. Â The camera is way out on Point Loma, near the Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery or Cabrillo National Monument. Â It's a very long lens. Is there really anywhere else they could get a shot that isn't on base? None that I can think of. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:42:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She holds a million gallons of fuel?? Holy cow.  I would guess most of that is some kind of bunker oil, so that would be about 8 pounds per gallon.  8 million pounds! That’s in one tank, half full. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:44:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad pulled a LtJg out of the A-4 forward of McCain’s.  The pilot was stuck upside down in his foot in his harness and my dad and another sailor cut the pilot loose.  The pilot broke his hip or his leg I can’t remember on the fall.  They got him into the catwalk right when the first bomb explosion went off.  My dad doesn’t talk much about that day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Forrestal fire video, when that major explosion takes out the fire party, your heart sinks watching it. My dad pulled a LtJg out of the A-4 forward of McCain’s.  The pilot was stuck upside down in his foot in his harness and my dad and another sailor cut the pilot loose.  The pilot broke his hip or his leg I can’t remember on the fall.  They got him into the catwalk right when the first bomb explosion went off.  My dad doesn’t talk much about that day. I remember reading that McCain had to climb out of his aircraft and nearly died getting out. I guess they didn’t have zero zero seats in the aircraft then. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:52:08 PM EDT
[#44]
"We don't have the shipyard capacity." Perhaps one of the most important little bits to come out in all of this. I'm going to guess that for this ship to be rebuilt, it would have to take the place of other shipyard work. So, what would we take out of the Naval and commercial pipelines for this to have yard space? Likewise, while there are likely some of the electronics assets out there, pulling them from "stores" would deplete/disrupt availability for active fleet repairs/availabiltiy, or require, upping ongoing, if any, procurement activity.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:53:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats a whole different level of "Wow!" Another incident, sort of related to this fire... the ship had 2 engine rooms, port and starboard. There were two watertight hatches leading from the main deck into each engine room. 1 set on the fantail and the other set between art house and the casing. My intention was to run all services through the hatches on the fantail. That way, if there was a fire, one hatch would be free of obstruction and provide a safe means of egress (and be extremely easy to secure quickly) and the other would have hoses, cables, wires, etc with disconnects. I conducted a walkthrough with the Nassco services rep and showed him what I wanted. Yeas, ok, can do, blah blah blah, I understand. I come back to the ship in the morning to find services through every batch available. I pitched a fit at the morning meeting over this. What should have been a simple “You need to fix this” turned into a multi-day argument on why it was necessary to do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:53:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there really anywhere else they could get a shot that isn't on base? None that I can think of. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was wondering where the camera for that feed was located, because you can see the tower at the top of the Hotel Del Coronado in the lower left. A few minutes ago the view zoomed out and back in. The camera is way out on Point Loma, near the Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery or Cabrillo National Monument. It's a very long lens. Is there really anywhere else they could get a shot that isn't on base? None that I can think of. Yesterday there was a camera that must have been near the foot of the bridge on Coronado, shooting through the bridge. It was OK. There was another one that I figure was at Silver Strand State Beach. It was far away and not a good shot. The top of the bridge would be ideal but there's no stopping allowed. The tower of the Hotel Del would probably be a good shot but I doubt that anyone is allowed up there. Other than that, the Naval Amphibious Base (obviously off limits) or a boat on the bay. A strip club in San Diego used to own a party barge called the Floating Castle out on the bay. On a clear day that would have had a good view of the wet side of the base. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:53:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Drywall or tri-walls? Not too much use for drywall on a ship. Tri-walls on the other hand are giant cardboard boxes you put supplies in. Yea probably tri-walls like what's being said. I was just quoting what the news report said. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:55:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Don't mean to sound ignorant or anything but it's pretty apparent at this point the ship is scrap. Is there anything other than simply starting from scratch in building a new one? Someone said ship construction is tightly scheduled and starting construction on anything not on that schedule is practically near impossible. Would it be easier to pull something out of mothballs and convert it or try and buy a similar vessel from one of our allies and convert it? If not that contracting with one of them to build us one? Just asking.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:58:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there really anywhere else they could get a shot that isn't on base? None that I can think of. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was wondering where the camera for that feed was located, because you can see the tower at the top of the Hotel Del Coronado in the lower left. A few minutes ago the view zoomed out and back in. Â The camera is way out on Point Loma, near the Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery or Cabrillo National Monument. Â It's a very long lens. Is there really anywhere else they could get a shot that isn't on base? None that I can think of. Maybe "rooftops" downtown? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2020 1:00:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GW had a main space fire several years ago, fuel spill into the shaft alley. They were at sea and nearly lost her.  No outside assistance coming in a situation like that. That’s overstating it a bit. It wasn’t a main space fire, wasn’t in shaft alley, and they didn’t almost lose her. It was started by smoking in an AC&R space whose exhaust went to the aux boiler exhaust and supply space (where the fire started), accentuated by improper storage of rags in a fan room and compressor oil in a nearby space. It was primarily a ventilation and cableway fire, which is why it took them 12 hours to put out. We were still dealing with the electrical effects of it several years later when I checked on board. And the CO and XO were fired. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Â
