Don't think he's going to manage it, not with his style of play.

Interesting, but does Denver have the draft capital to make an offer worthy of Rodgers?

Miami at least has the picks to make it happen.

You read youtube comments? Dear Lord man, you need a hobby.

I think you might have been one of the guys I was talking about that with about 3 years ago.  It seemed obvious to me (and some others) that Rodgers just wasn't going to win another Super Bowl with Green Bay.  I suggested trading him for a Herschel Walker-type deal.  Hell, MAYBE even better.

I said it would have been the best thing for both Rodgers and the Packers.  Assuming of course the goal was to win a Super Bowl.  Not simply be a "contender" for one.

Should work out a deal with the Bucs to take over for Brady.

While it certainly might not be as fun to some people as an evening with their rural best friend, after certain events I sometimes skim comments for a laugh.

The Double Doink was one of my favorites.

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That'd be a pretty big downgrade so they'd have to make some improvements elsewhere to try and make up the difference.

So should the pack re sign Rodgers and make him a top paid QB?

The Packers should extend Rodgers for several more years at a salary that will get him to sign.

We did have that convo.

I think both of us are of the mind set that not matter what, everyone is tradable.

My whole point that started this BS "debate" is that Rodgers is expected to put up above 30 or even 35+ just to give the team a chance when other QB's like Brady because of the defenses he has played with has had to score less points to still win games. Not "every" game obviously but he has some impressive accomplishments and wins scoring in the low 20's points wise.

Brady fans are the ones who seemingly won't give the defenses he's played with credit for the team's success. He has a ring with the fewest points in ever for a SB winner, and in that same game the defense held the opponent to the fewest points T1 for a SB.

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I know we talked about it a few years ago. I remember using the Vikings as an example of a roster that would immediately flourish with an elite QB at the helm, regardless of the fact that GB would likely never directly trade him there. Obviously that didn't stop Favre from getting there

Why wouldn't they?  Taking even more money away from other positions in order to give Rodgers (who is under contract for 3 more seasons at which point he'll be in his 40's) more money can only help them.

Between David_ESM and myself the fallacy of your argument has been explained to you at least half a dozen times.  I find it hard to believe you honestly still don't get it.  It seems more likely you are simply choosing to ignore it.  Either way I don't see any point in trying to explain it to you yet again. David might try again though.  He seems more patient than I am.  Either that or he gets a kick out of taking you to task.

It was an interesting, mostly hypothetical, discussion.  How many picks the Packers could get, how many picks Rodgers was worth, possible teams, etc.

IIRC, some Packers fan (not you) flipped his shit that people were suggesting the Packers could even consider trading A-A-Ron.

Rodgers’s value depends on how many potential buyers there are, how hard he squeezes the GB front office, and how teams view his contract situation. All three of those can swing his value a lot.

In general, I would expect Rodgers’s trade value to be lower than Watson just based on age.

It also depends on what GB thinks they have in Jordon Love. Is he real, or is GB about to get exposed if Rodgers leaves?

If Love is a legit QB, and if Rodgers squeezes the front office hard enough, I could see trading him to Denver for something like a 1st and a defensive star like Justin Simmons.

A first and a defensive star would be a steal for Rodgers. Highway robbery, worse than the Hopkins trade.

Rodgers to the Jets on his way to the Vikings would be perfect symmetry. The Jets have the capital to trade for Rodgers too.

It's be kinda funny if Rodgers started acting out in an attempt to get more money from the Packers and they responded by trading him to a team like the Jets.

He also HAD to put up 36 points vs the Chiefs to win the 2018 AFCCG
He put up 33 points, throwing for OVER 500 YARDS and still lost in the 2017 Super Bowl
He also HAD to put up 32 vs the Falcons for the greatest SB come back of all time

But let's just keep fluffing that his defense does everything.

As to your graphic, how about you come back with his EPA in CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP games? I don't care how good Aaron is in the Wild Card or Divisional round. Oh yeah, that's because once again you don't want to talk about reality, you want to pick and choose.

Guess what Rodgers EPA was in the NFCCG last year. -0.4

Oh, and does Tom's defense say ZERO!? I thought you said his defense is the whole reason why he wins!?

I have no patience. Which is why I fall for trolls and idiots. It's a curse.

LOL...

I'm a huge Packers and Rodgers fan but apparently he needs a clean pocket and a SB defense or nobody is worthy. He's no Brady at this point only needing 1 year to get there.

Can you tell his actions are rubbing me the wrong way.

That kid is going to have quite an uphill battle.  Being a first round QB is hard enough, but he is going to be the next guy in line after 30 years of Favre and Rodgers.  To top it off there are also almost certainly going to be Packers fans claiming that if they would have spent that first round pick on a lineman, cornerback, whatever that they would have won another Super Bowl with Rodgers.

At no point did I say all of his wins were lower scoring. Nice straw man. I clearly pointed out he had 16 wins in those games, and obviously 7 of them were OVER 30 points

You guys are taking people who point out that Brady has played with some great defenses as a slight on Brady. That is not the case but football is not a one man show. Theres 52 other people on the roster besides the QB and 2 other phases the QB doesn't play in

I NEVER said his defenses did everything but now you're intentionally being hyperbolic and misleading about what I actually said.

Pick and choose? That chart is over a 20 year span that includes a fuck ton of games

OBVIOUSLY Brady is a great QB in his own right as that chart shows but there's a big glaring difference in the D/ST quality Brady has played with vs. Rodgers

I find it hilarious Brady fans are just going to throw Belichick and his defenses down the drain as if they suddenly weren't part of the success in NE. Now he's on the Bucs with another top 10 defense

Also, I know Rodgers has not played his best football in games where we needed him to do so. If you think that fact is lost on Packers fans then there's nothing else I can say to you about that.

I've been saying for years he has to play his best to give them a chance to win in these games, and if he doesn't then they'll lose. Rodgers did not play his best football last Sunday so they lost.  

Haha, yeah, I get it though.  It's pretty shitty diva behavior for a QB that's been with a team for over a decade to make the mistakes he did in a playoff game and then basically throw his coach under the bus, claim no responsibility (based on what I saw), and then make comments that cause people to think he is considering leaving the team.

Why do you want to use a chart that includes all the data now when you have spent your last 20 posts only picking specific games for your argument? NOW you want to use all the data to try and show Aaron Rodgers is the best playoff quarterback in two decades? After you spent an entire day arguing it is his defenses faults and he shouldn't have to score the NFL LEAGUE AVERAGE POINTS TO WIN A PLAYOFF GAME (over the last ten years) because Tom Brady won some of his conference championships TWENTY YEARS AGO with fewer than 30 points?

There's no pleasing some people.

In the last ten years, Rodgers has scored the LEAGUE AVERAGE for a winning playoff team a grand total of 5 times in his 7-8 record. And he has never, in his entire career, scored 30 points in a conference championship game, where he averages a whopping 22 points.

But this has all been said multiple times.

FACT: Aaron Rodgers has scored under the league average (for a winning playoff team) in every single one of his conference championship appearances.

Explain it away any way you choose. It won't change reality.

It was shitty of Rodgers and LaFleur. They both took shots at each other in the post game. Rodgers questioning the FG, LaFleur talking about taking the FG because Rodgers couldn't get it done in the redzone.

They should both know better, one being a head coach, the other being around as long as he has been.

Edit: Rodgers just made his more dramatic with his future talk.

Nope.

The thing about the Hopkins trade is that David Johnson had negative net value due to his contract. If I'm a GM and you want to send a guy like that to my team, I would expect you to package a pick with him to compensate me for the otherwise wasted cap space, and I only make that trade if I'm a tank team collecting picks. The idea that a playoff team traded away one of the very best WRs in the league to get him is astonishing. I don't think most people really understand just how bad that trade was.

Back to Rodgers... He will be 38 in the upcoming season, he's under contract until he's 40, that contract is expensive, and he's already asking for more money. Odds are against him playing as well as he did in 2020 ever again. A decision by the Packers to sign him to a new contract is very risky. Another team trading for him AND signing a contract? That's some really high stakes stuff. All of that liability hurts his value.

If the Packers were to trade Rodgers for a top-10 pick and a proven star player, there's a very high chance they come out ahead on the trade when the team who gets Rodgers might only get 1-2 years of quality play out of him.

His remaining part of the contract is a bargain compared to todays' average...define expensive?

I don't see him saying that part in bold. I see him saying Brady has been able to win games that don't require those 30+ point totals because he also had a competent defense at that point. Not that he is incapable, not that the defense did it all, they worked together and won.

Again, this is "no shit" football stats. If your offense can score 30+ points your chances of winning a game are greatly increased. If your offense CAN'T score 30+ points then you also need a defense that can at least prevent your opponent from scoring 30+ points. Perfect examples of this are Mannings 2nd SB run and the Chiefs 2018 playoff run. 23-16, 20-18, 24-10 were the postseason scores for the Broncos (they only had two 30+ point games that entire season), and as you know the Chiefs lost that conference championship game 31-37 (and an even more extreme example was the regular season game vs. the Rams that they lost 51-54). Not that that the Broncos example is a great thing for GB. We all know Rodgers is a more capable passer than Manning was in that season, and that he and his offense shouldn't need that level of defense to win games, yet in every conference championship game he has played in that is exactly what GB needed to secure the victory. The flip side is the expectation shouldn't be that Rodgers and GB's offense need to play every game at 2018 Mahomes & KC level to win a game. If that is the the expectation then we've failed to hold the franchise to a reasonable level of responsibility for failing to build a complete team, other than in 2010. Hell, Mahomes and KC haven't even been playing at the 2018 level despite that roster being mostly intact (and improved on defense). KC also wisely chose to build around Mahomes to secure those victories, and they've succeeded in improving the talent around Mahomes. GB tried, failed, and then continued trying and failing in the exact same way until they finally fired McCarthy and Thompson stepped down from being GM. That's the only point we really saw GB deviate from the same failing strategy they had incorporated over the majority of the last decade. Now, we've seen an improvement but things are still somewhat questionable, time will tell though.

BTW, saying TB12 benefitted from those defenses doesn't diminish what he's accomplished at all. People can question if other QB's would have accomplished the same or more under the same circumstances, but that never happened and TB12 still accomplished those things. It's also discounting the fact that TB12 was willing to take the personal financial hit to achieve that level of success, which makes him directly responsible for fostering the environment that made those defenses possible. It's something we rarely see other players do, and therefore very unlikely other QB's would have found themselves in the same circumstances.

Let's look at it from a point spread perspective. Subtract Rodgers, and add a generic first round CB, or OL, or DL or LB to the Packers as well as Justin Simmons.

What happens to the point spread against any, or all of the Packers' opponents this year?

Agreed, but I think Rodgers' behavior was worse.  IIRC, LaFleur was asked what his thinking was in going for the FG.  I think the fact that they couldn't gain a single yard on 3 plays so he didn't exactly have high hopes they could gain 8 yards on 1 play is legitimate.  Though he probably could have worded it better.

Regardless, yeah, when you have your franchise QB and HC taking shots at each following a loss it's probably not a great sign going forward.

The Packers made their bed and then took a fat, steamy shit in it with their draft last year.

Rodgers having an MVP season was not at all predicable, but the drama growing before us absolutely was.

I absolutely think GB's draft selections had a negative impact on this season and likely cost them a trip to the Super Bowl, and the QB controversy drama was obvious to everyone the second the Love pick was announced. There are going to be what-ifs for a long, long time.

How and when the Packers move on from Rodgers might be a question that doesn't have a right answer. It's going to be a mess.

I did not realize La Fleur took shots like that in his press conference. FFS if he thinks he can do better without Rodgers that is not good in the long run.

This is a Stephen A quality take. The two have been working together more successfully than all but maybe 3 HC/QB pairs over the last 2 years. I'll take that body of work over vague comments made in the wake of a disappointing playoff loss.

That's a pretty shitty comparison considering QB is the only position that causes any serious line movement.

Lets hope they were only made in the stress of the moment right after the game. Everybody was reeling from it.

Knowing athletes it doesn't take much for something to stick in their craw.

Rodgers has several years of top production left in him. I'm happy to address his succession when the time comes. We all know how fast things can change in the NFL. 4 years ago we were wondering if the Chiefs could ever even make it out of the AFC. 6 years ago the Seahawks were a budding dynasty. 3 years ago Cleveland was coming off a stretch of winning 4 games in 3 years.

Things change, really fast.

Right, because clearly a team winning games last season completely disproves the opinion that a QB and a HC taking shots at each other is "probably not a great sign going forward."

More BS right there. His last SB ring came off a 13 point performance which is the lowest winning score in SB history

That was, get this, 2 years ago not 20

As to the rest no one here is disputing any of that. You literally said Rodgers hasn't done well enough quoting a post where I said Rodgers hasn't played well enough then act like you're making some super insightful comment

Which kinda goes to the heart of the issue, right? Top level QB play matters more than anything else.

The remaining part of his contract features high cap numbers (~20% of cap space) that aren't great for the team and a complete lack of guarantees that aren't great for the player.

Rodgers is 37 years old, he just played a MVP season, and he has $0 in guaranteed money in front of him. He's talking about a new contract, and I don't blame him for doing so. It's a very precarious position.

https://overthecap.com/player/aaron-rodgers/1085/

If I were them, I wouldn't take the trade you proposed, it's a net loss IMO. If that was the best offer I was to recieve I would let Rodgers ride out his contract while evaluating and developing Love. Before Love's 5th year extension decision was due, I'd have to make the call on if we would go forward with him or to cut bait and pick up a different QB through the draft or FA. Hopefully, if my decision were to be "cut bait" Love had demonstrated enough ability in preseason or in relief of Rodgers that he would have some trade value.

Rodgers may or may not be able to perform at the same level as 2020 going forward, but I still think he's going to give them their best shot of post season success in the near term. Freeing up cap space would definitely allow for them to bring in talent, but without a covy of draft picks (which would have to be gained through trading Rodgers) all that capital is only going to be useful for resigning existing players or for signing FA's who will usually demand a premium simply due to how FA works, but GB will also find themselves at a disadvantage in FA due to players not wanting to live in GB. As far as existing talent goes, most of the guys that will need resigning should be able to be signed with Rodgers on the team. As always, there will be tough decisions (like Aaron Jones) but I don't see "overpaying just because you have the room" to be a winning strategy either.

Again, if it becomes a problem going forward I'll be happy to discuss it. A this time it's just a pair of competitive guys saying things in the heat of the moment after a very disappointing loss.

Its hard to imagine our team without Rodgers. Hope they can work it out before he falls off the cliff. Brady is the only one that seems to be able to drink from the fountain of youth.

I don't think it "goes to the heart of the issue."  A point spread moving and to what degree isn't even close to an accurate gauge of a non-QB player's importance.

Years ago the Cowboys defense was averaging giving up something ridiculous like 12 points more per game without Sean Lee.    Sean Lee would be announced to be out and the line wouldn't move even half a point.

What are you basing that on?

Tom Brady is a sample size of one. He's the exception, not the norm. All other evidence points towards Rodgers's sun setting by the time he hits 40.

I said its "probably not a great sign going forward." So unless you're claiming a QB and a HC taking shots at each other IS a great sign going forward, I'm not sure what you're attempting to argue.

Would you trade away an MVP QB for a first round pick and a defensive starter?

I think this hits the nail on the head.

He has stated he desires to continue playing until he is 40, but with $0 guaranteed he is one injury away from losing out on millions with his likely replacement sitting there on the bench.

Simply asking GB to give him some guaranteed money as some kind of insurance during his final years would be completely reasonable.