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Posted: 5/16/2001 11:22:44 AM EDT
Working, as I do, in the security profession, I must remain ready to defend and protect those whom I serve at all times. I'm wondering how long you guys consider one man can stay on a security beat before he becomes unable to carry out his duties effectively. I currently work a 12 hour shift, and towards the end of it, I feel that my reflexes are slowed, and my resonse time to any "incident" would be subpar with this fatigue. What is you limit for hours on duty in a job like mine? Working overtime pays, but if I can't operate in my capacity effectively after long hours, I won't be worth much to anyone. This is the one complaint I have with my job, and I'd like to know if there's any support for shorter hours than I currently work. One person, who works in retail security, told me I was being a "Pu$$y" not to work 18, but this individual seemed a bit unbalanced anyhow, so I'd like some rational comment from field professionals. Thank you. HKSentinel
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 11:32:15 AM EDT
What do you do during your shift? Stand, sit, walk, ride? What sort of breaks do you get?
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 11:44:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Matt VDW: What do you do during your shift? Stand, sit, walk, ride? What sort of breaks do you get?
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It all really depends on the day, I can never be sure if I will stand/sit by a door or at a certain location for 6 hours, with a 20 minute break every three hours, or whether I will be at the perimeter in a Jeep for a couple of hours, whether I will walk corridors and stairs, stand or sit by the security monitors, patrol the roof, stand "on call" for investigating any anomalies...I never really know, though most of it is spent in moving surveilance. My supervisor is pretty good, she gives us a pretty balanced combination of areas and duties. I know I'd get tired if I had to walk for twelve hours, but they aren't that stupid, I'll spend some time on the Hummer by the fences or out buildings, or by a door with a chair for some of my hours on the same day. Breaks are 20 minutes every three hours, 45 minute lunch. Suffice to say that I end each day as tired as before. They(the supervisors) have a pretty good instinct for knowing just how much of whatever it is they want to you to do you can stand at a stretch, but even with all light duty, which I'm not going to get, I'm thinking 12 hours is too much for me to be alert. It's more than they've actually assigned, but the extra four hours provides a lot overtime money. HKSentinel
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 11:50:04 AM EDT
Do you wear Body armor? with front and rear Trauma Plates?
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:00:00 PM EDT
Be sure you hydrate continuously. A camel-back might be a good idea. It will also provide a surface to mount extra trauma plates. One on either side of it. That will save the discomfort of removing the duct tape from your bare skin. It's also known that duckt tapeing trauma plates will not allow your sweat to "wick" from your body. Keeping cool & hydrated will help your energy level at the end of your 12 hour shift. You will need that extra energy not just for overtime, but those evenings at the range expending hundreds of rounds keeping up your shooting skills. Be safe. Scott
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:00:12 PM EDT
Does your significant other work with you as part of a team? Does she carry a break down .300 Win Mag in a discreet tactical case (aka brief case)? Kharn
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:03:10 PM EDT
I can't decide.... Is this thread starting to go a little sideways? Nuckles.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:13:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Nuckles: I can't decide.... Is this thread starting to go a little sideways? Nuckles.
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That is what I'm wondering. Am I missing something here? I wear Zero-G Class IIIa bodyarmor, with a ceramic front plate, for all of those who seem so interested in body armor. Camelbacks are a good idea if I am out for a long while but I'm usually not, coolers in the vehicles seem to do the trick. I rarely walk as much as I ride when outside. Is this how you greet everyone's questions? HKSentinel
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:18:27 PM EDT
It will also provide a surface to mount extra trauma plates.
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i have to agree w/ Gun Fan, the more trauma plates the better. Lots of .308 snipers are out there.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:23:43 PM EDT
HKSENTINEL,the reason you're getting some weird answers is because some people may believe there is a mall ninja at work here.mmk
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:27:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By madman kirk: HKSENTINEL,the reason you're getting some weird answers is because some people may believe there is a mall ninja at work here.mmk
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Uh,ninjas don't hang out in malls...I thought. What? Care to expound? For a new guy here, though I am not new to the security profession, this is confusing. I'm just trying to get some input. Sheesh.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:28:10 PM EDT
Try making frequent trips to the Food Court.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:31:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HKSentinel: One person, who works in retail security, told me I was being a "Pu$$y" not to work 18, but this individual seemed a bit unbalanced anyhow, so I'd like some rational comment from field professionals. Thank you. HKSentinel
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I'm slightly unbalanced too but you are being a pussy. Either do the job or find another one that agrees with you more.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:31:45 PM EDT
You can try adding a pint of blood (blood overloading), and it's good for a few weeks. Coffee is another option.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:32:42 PM EDT
In many professions, too much work can be a bad thing. For instance, in radio broadcasting, 4 hours is recognized as being a norm, and 6 is pushing it. Having worked as a mobile and club DJ for a number of years, I agree with this estimate. The general concensus seems to be 8-10 hours per day around the country. 18 hour shifts are for unstable morons, as it is considered that you need 8 hours of sleep per night. Work 18 hours, 1/2 hour commute, you've got if you are lucky, 5 hours of sleep. How well do you operate on 5 hours of sleep? Once, about a year ago, after a long stressful 10 1/2 hour workday after 5 1/2 hours sleep, I decided to stop by the range for some stress relief. On walking out to the shooting area, I realized that perhaps I wasn't quite up for it. Some of the things that have been second nature, including safety items, were difficult. Imagine if that had been the 2nd 18 hour shift in a row, and I had to confront a lethal scenario? Additionally, you should note that in most states, you can decline overtime without any retribution from your employer. Additionally, most states also require a minimum of 8 hours between shifts. And the list goes on and on.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:33:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2001 12:34:27 PM EDT by madman_kirk]
[url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=9391[/url] or [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=5967 [/url]
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:36:33 PM EDT
Oh, ya gotta love the Mall Ninja threads! HK, if your not the Ninja, excuse where this thread is headed. It's gonna get ugly, but entertaining!
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:46:39 PM EDT
if anybody has the link to the original thread on the other board,please post it.mmk
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:53:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IrvineGunNut: In many professions, too much work can be a bad thing. For instance, in radio broadcasting, 4 hours is recognized as being a norm, and 6 is pushing it. Having worked as a mobile and club DJ for a number of years, I agree with this estimate. The general concensus seems to be 8-10 hours per day around the country. 18 hour shifts are for unstable morons, as it is considered that you need 8 hours of sleep per night. Work 18 hours, 1/2 hour commute, you've got if you are lucky, 5 hours of sleep. How well do you operate on 5 hours of sleep? Once, about a year ago, after a long stressful 10 1/2 hour workday after 5 1/2 hours sleep, I decided to stop by the range for some stress relief. On walking out to the shooting area, I realized that perhaps I wasn't quite up for it. Some of the things that have been second nature, including safety items, were difficult. Imagine if that had been the 2nd 18 hour shift in a row, and I had to confront a lethal scenario? Additionally, you should note that in most states, you can decline overtime without any retribution from your employer. Additionally, most states also require a minimum of 8 hours between shifts. And the list goes on and on.
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I only work 12 hours right now, and can stop working more than 8 anytime, but the inherent instability of our corporation makes our supervisors very anxious for competant professionals to be on call. The snipers have it easy, they work with spotters, and every half hour, they get to switch. Pretty easy, considering the safety of the roof, and the fact they they don't have to move unless we have another incident. It can be pretty exhausting, but I understand that many LEO's work these sort of hours. And no, I'm not this Mall Ninja guy, but he sounds very much like the retail security guy I spoke too, hope he's not for real. HKSentinel
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 1:12:12 PM EDT
I'll bet those snipers are really taking naps while the spotter keeps watch. Man what a setup. You need to get transfered to that Dept. Naps, good cover, not tireing, switching off every 30 min. Man thats the life.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 1:20:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HKSentinel:
Originally Posted By IrvineGunNut: In many professions, too much work can be a bad thing. For instance, in radio broadcasting, 4 hours is recognized as being a norm, and 6 is pushing it. Having worked as a mobile and club DJ for a number of years, I agree with this estimate. The general concensus seems to be 8-10 hours per day around the country. 18 hour shifts are for unstable morons, as it is considered that you need 8 hours of sleep per night. Work 18 hours, 1/2 hour commute, you've got if you are lucky, 5 hours of sleep. How well do you operate on 5 hours of sleep? Once, about a year ago, after a long stressful 10 1/2 hour workday after 5 1/2 hours sleep, I decided to stop by the range for some stress relief. On walking out to the shooting area, I realized that perhaps I wasn't quite up for it. Some of the things that have been second nature, including safety items, were difficult. Imagine if that had been the 2nd 18 hour shift in a row, and I had to confront a lethal scenario? Additionally, you should note that in most states, you can decline overtime without any retribution from your employer. Additionally, most states also require a minimum of 8 hours between shifts. And the list goes on and on.
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I only work 12 hours right now, and can stop working more than 8 anytime, but the inherent instability of our corporation makes our supervisors very anxious for competant professionals to be on call. The snipers have it easy, they work with spotters, and every half hour, they get to switch. Pretty easy, considering the safety of the roof, and the fact they they don't have to move unless we have another incident. It can be pretty exhausting, but I understand that many LEO's work these sort of hours. And no, I'm not this Mall Ninja guy, but he sounds very much like the retail security guy I spoke too, hope he's not for real. HKSentinel
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I'm going to regret asking this but, just what corporation do you work for HK? guns762
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 1:34:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762: I'm going to regret asking this but, just what corporation do you work for HK? guns762 [/quote] You won't regret it, because I can't answer it. The very most specific I can be is to say I'm involved with Haz.Mat. It's not anything I can discuss, but all the military types know about classified info, and this falls under the same ethical category of information that can't be shared. As you can tell, it requires a high amount of security, but so do a lot of very large corporations/outposts/compounds/bases, so that's no giveaway. HKSentinel
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 1:37:11 PM EDT
oooooooh. the ole' illegal gubment dumping thing!! [:)] Nuckles.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 2:58:24 PM EDT
You need a mid-shift jalepno enema.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 3:11:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IrvineGunNut: Once, about a year ago, after a long stressful 10 1/2 hour workday after 5 1/2 hours sleep, I decided to stop by the range for some stress relief. On walking out to the shooting area, I realized that perhaps I wasn't quite up for it. Some of the things that have been second nature, including safety items, were difficult. Imagine if that had been the 2nd 18 hour shift in a row, and I had to confront a lethal scenario?
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Try getting 4 hours or less of sleep a night and operating a firearm. That is what it will be like when the time comes.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 3:18:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 10:55:28 PM EDT
I work twelves also. Plus with travel it's a 15-16.5 hour night for me. As far a fatigue goes, if something pops up your training and adrenalin should kick in.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 10:58:27 PM EDT
Where are you? Are you gov't or a prime contractor to a contractor to the gov't? Your situation sound familiar.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 11:05:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MDS: Where are you? Are you gov't or a prime contractor to a contractor to the gov't? Your situation sound familiar.
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He works for the Micky D's corporation, you know there are alot of evil bastards out trying to steal the recipe for the secret sauce[-!-!-]
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 11:53:22 PM EDT
Watch out for those evil skin head snipers[sniper] with thier Barret 50cals mounted up with Leepers scopes. I would reckamend a cool down every 2 hours in the center court foutain. Or have the mall throw in a few frozen treats from DQ. Work for the govmnt? Surely the Mall Ninja isnt working for the Dept. of Energy. It could be high risk in Cali. Everybody PO'ed with the rolling blackouts and all.[:D]
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 11:56:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYshooter: He works for the Micky D's corporation, you know there are alot of evil bastards out trying to steal the recipe for the secret sauce[-!-!-]
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PSST...It's thousand island dressing. Dang I've said to much...I must now leave or face the wrath of "undercover" Mall Ninja.[:D]
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 1:11:09 PM EDT
You work with Wackenhutt?
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 12:36:24 PM EDT
When I'm on some ultra-high security gigs, me and my team 'live' on site. We usually run 4 teams of equal numbers of men, with 3 teams on, 1 team off. Shift changes are at every 4 hours, so you do the math. We work some serious shifts, and only a couple 4 hour breaks a day, that is if we don't have any 'incident' that requires a call up of the off shift, or a 'fire watch.'
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 12:49:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPECOPS: When I'm on some ultra-high security gigs, me and my team 'live' on site. We usually run 4 teams of equal numbers of men, with 3 teams on, 1 team off. Shift changes are at every 4 hours, so you do the math. We work some serious shifts, and only a couple 4 hour breaks a day, that is if we don't have any 'incident' that requires a call up of the off shift, or a 'fire watch.'
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I think I could handle this, living on site at major incident is pretty much what I do most of the time now, but changing shift every four hours would be better than 12 at a time. You apparently have a lot more back up than I do, though, I wish I could get team support. HKSentinel
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 12:50:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io:
Originally Posted By IrvineGunNut: Once, about a year ago, after a long stressful 10 1/2 hour workday after 5 1/2 hours sleep, I decided to stop by the range for some stress relief. On walking out to the shooting area, I realized that perhaps I wasn't quite up for it. Some of the things that have been second nature, including safety items, were difficult. Imagine if that had been the 2nd 18 hour shift in a row, and I had to confront a lethal scenario?
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Try getting 4 hours or less of sleep a night and operating a firearm. That is what it will be like when the time comes.
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How about 2-3 hours of sleep a night for about 2 months. Living with a M16 in your hand by day and in your cot with you at night. You even take it to the shower and crapper. Not to mention eating nothing but mre's 4 times a day. Talk about tired!!!!!!
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