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Posted: 10/16/2019 8:54:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
John has a long mustache. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/352436/282119E1-2900-4508-8FAA-D69C7B2E28D8_jpeg-1125901.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If that happens I’ll be leaving the site. A insignificant gesture? Perhaps. But a clear sign that dissent, even within the CoC is not tolerated. So what’s the fall back position? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/352436/282119E1-2900-4508-8FAA-D69C7B2E28D8_jpeg-1125901.JPG |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 8:56:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whose definition of "unconstitutional" ? Some guys on a gun forum, or the Supreme Courts ?? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 8:57:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Peaceful civil disobedience worked for Martin Luther King. The Bill of Rights says,"shall not be infringed." It's a sad state of affairs that this post topic is even a question.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:01:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s just it. Paul alluded to the ideal that the site must be shielded from legal liability. That ideal is largely incompatible with any kind of peaceful civil disobedience or the discussion thereof. If I express the same opinion in a bar, can the bar owner be sued? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:02:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... rub some soothing salve on your pussy? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:02:29 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We need an answer to this question. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:05:22 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ummm, the first one... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whose definition of "unconstitutional" ? Some guys on a gun forum, or the Supreme Courts ?? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:05:49 AM EDT
[#8]
I think we all know the official answer to this already. Should be curious to see how they word it to make it more palatable.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:06:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are those 30 round AK magazines legal in CO? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: If that happens I’ll be leaving the site. A insignificant gesture? Perhaps. But a clear sign that dissent, even within the CoC is not tolerated. So what’s the fall back position? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/352436/282119E1-2900-4508-8FAA-D69C7B2E28D8_jpeg-1125901.JPG |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:12:13 AM EDT
[#10]
Think about something..... Trump is doing good but he has also been either the cause or allowed far worse unconstitutional tyrannical overreaches of 2A rights than any of the recent democrats. What that means is if you look past the blind Trump lovers and at the majority of us who voted for him, at the core we are not pleased with him. But to admit his fault in a sense admits we are wrong and not many like dealing with that. Then with the flamboyant postulation of the liberals and the liberal owned media we need a mouth piece. We hated on the NRA, we don't want to hate Trump so what's left? We hate each other. The truth is the mods are doing their best, the members in general are doing nothing wrong but a few clashes happen and it seems like it is us against them inside this echo chamber. Ultimately it falls on leadership to course correct and I am glad that is not my responsibility, I have too much of those already. I am just here to feed my passion and to hang around like minded folks (at least virtually). One more thing... tin foil or not... This site is famous so would it not be reasonable to believe the liberals plant people here just to cause upheaval and get us to bickering and turn on each other?
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:12:50 AM EDT
[#11]
It is fairly telling that we are even having this conversation of needing to watch what we say because government people may be watching. Very 1984.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:12:55 AM EDT
[#12]
This might be one of those threads that they hope will just fade away.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:14:33 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I foresee an "answered" and locked or "waste of site resources" and locked in the future. It was the ARFCOM equivalent of calling those who don't intend to vote for you "Deplorables" because now it is a rallying cry that might make it to "Fo" or "Blade at 45" status. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:14:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Is it better to do it loud and proud, or is it better to keep your business on the down low?
I don't know. The mag ban may not be enforced in Colorado right now, but squawking about it on a public forum may bring attention to that and start a push to have stricter enforcement policy. I for one wouldn't advocate coming on here to flout the NY AWB. You could wind up with a SWAT team on your doorstep if you do. It's also important to remember that this forum is literally buzzing with law enforcement. Some are members who are on our side, some are members who aren't on our side and some actively looking for criminal activity to prosecute. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:17:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Fear has permeated this site, and that is how leftists win.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:18:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Nevermind.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:21:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it better to do it loud and proud, or is it better to keep your business on the down low? I don't know. The mag ban may not be enforced in Colorado right now, but squawking about it on a public forum may bring attention to that and start a push to have stricter enforcement policy. I for one wouldn't advocate coming on here to flout the NY AWB. You could wind up with a SWAT team on your doorstep if you do. It's also important to remember that this forum is literally buzzing with law enforcement. Some are members who are on our side, some are members who aren't on our side and some actively looking for criminal activity to prosecute.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:22:13 AM EDT
[#18]
discussion no.
actively encouraging people to break the law. yes and always has been an issue. 4. Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. There is zero issue with discussing the laws or organizing to protest or remove them. We can not allow active discussion on how to circumvent them in an illegal manner. We have never allowed that. the thread in question was locked for the correct reasons. The way it was handled was not and i am reviewing those actions. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:26:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you placing the court above The People? Individuals definitions run the gamut of extremes...…..someone with a safe filled with MG's and suppressors may not necessarily feel that having to fill out a 4473 is an unconstitutional "infringement". Some pheasant hunter, or clay shooter in Iowa may not feel that banning machine guns is an "infringement", or in any way unconstitutional. Half of the voters in this country have no problems supporting presidential candidates that would ban every semi auto weapon in this country if given the opportunity.....they don't see it as unconstitutional. Rulings made by the court I referenced have been used numerous times to preserve what rights we have left..... Pick 100 random people ....set em in a room, and let them decide if MG's should be banned and confiscated......you won't like what happens. Go in front of SCOTUS and they'll tell you why its unconstitutional. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:27:00 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whose definition of "unconstitutional" ? Some guys on a gun forum, or the Supreme Courts ?? 
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:30:33 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is an important question the site staff need to answer imo. If this site cant stand up to Denver liberals, who can they stand up to? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:32:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you need a bunch of Harvard grads in black robes to tell you what "shall not be infringed" means? Are your rights granted by .gov? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whose definition of "unconstitutional" ? Some guys on a gun forum, or the Supreme Courts ?? Are your rights granted by .gov? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:33:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tagscribed. Arfcom has been my internet "Home" for over a decade. I can't even begin to count the number of amazing folks I've met and I don't dare tally up all the money I've spent thanks to this place. But I do feel that we are fast approaching a crossroads. This is the time for staff to come out and say either they are prepared to go all the way and resist or to say "Welcome our new Brownells Overloards, any discussion about anything that could possibly offend anyone anywhere will be crushed". If you aint all in, be honest about it. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:34:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
discussion no. actively encouraging people to break the law. yes and always has been an issue. 4. Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. There is zero issue with discussing the laws or organizing to protest or remove them. We can not allow active discussion on how to circumvent them in an illegal manner. We have never allowed that. the thread in question was locked for the correct reasons. The way it was handled was not and i am reviewing those actions. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/So-when-does-Paul-get-banned-/5-2263925/&page=5#i81470229 Just because Paul was either unaware of or forgot about the federal law protecting the OP’s right to do what he was asking to do, doesn’t mean that telling the OP to do what he was asking was promoting an illegal activity. FOPA disagrees with Paul’s opinion of the matter. Paul locked the thread in part to take a stand that he was fighting from the moral high ground, when in reality, he was issuing warnings and stifling discussion based on his lack of information. FOPA is the moral high ground. Peaceful protest of unconstitutional laws is the moral high ground. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:37:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bend down and lick your masters boot. I suppose you are trying to get this locked? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: If that happens I'll be leaving the site. A insignificant gesture? Perhaps. But a clear sign that dissent, even within the CoC is not tolerated. So what's the fall back position? I suppose you are trying to get this locked? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:38:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fear has permeated this site, and that is how leftists win. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:39:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As far as what's acceptable to post here, I think one could make a distinction between someone saying "CO mag ban? Nobody pays attention to that, don't worry about it." and "Dear ATF: I have an unregistered SBR. Come at me bro." https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58021/Screen_Shot_2019-04-02_at_2_26_42_PM_jpg-1125936.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is it better to do it loud and proud, or is it better to keep your business on the down low? I don't know. The mag ban may not be enforced in Colorado right now, but squawking about it on a public forum may bring attention to that and start a push to have stricter enforcement policy. I for one wouldn't advocate coming on here to flout the NY AWB. You could wind up with a SWAT team on your doorstep if you do. It's also important to remember that this forum is literally buzzing with law enforcement. Some are members who are on our side, some are members who aren't on our side and some actively looking for criminal activity to prosecute. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58021/Screen_Shot_2019-04-02_at_2_26_42_PM_jpg-1125936.JPG What happens when some journalist or gun control advocate stumbles across our discussion and it leads to a News 7 Investigates piece about the ineffectiveness of Colorado's gun safety measures due to non-enforcement? This prompts the politicians to start pushing on the enforcement agencies, who in turn start making examples of people. Like I said, I don't know if it is better to do it openly or quietly. Quietly you have less chance of getting in trouble, openly you have a greater chance of having an impact. Just remember though, we aren't black folks sitting at a White Only lunch counter. The police cracking down on us when we flout the law isn't going to generate much public sympathy. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:39:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
discussion no. actively encouraging people to break the law. yes and always has been an issue. 4. Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. There is zero issue with discussing the laws or organizing to protest or remove them. We can not allow active discussion on how to circumvent them in an illegal manner. We have never allowed that. the thread in question was locked for the correct reasons. The way it was handled was not and i am reviewing those actions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
discussion no. actively encouraging people to break the law. yes and always has been an issue. 4. Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. There is zero issue with discussing the laws or organizing to protest or remove them. We can not allow active discussion on how to circumvent them in an illegal manner. We have never allowed that. the thread in question was locked for the correct reasons. The way it was handled was not and i am reviewing those actions. The review shouldn't take any longer than the matter of seconds it took me to type the previous few sentences. He is an employee of the site and SHOULD ABSOLUTELY be held to a higher standard than the rest of the members. I don't give a shit about how long he's been around, whose friend he is in real life, or any laundry list of great things he's done in the past. If a man builds a thousand bridges and sucks one dick, they don't call him a bridge-builder... they call him a cocksucker. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:41:08 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As far as what's acceptable to post here, I think one could make a distinction between someone saying "CO mag ban? Nobody pays attention to that, don't worry about it." and "Dear ATF: I have an unregistered SBR. Come at me bro." https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58021/Screen_Shot_2019-04-02_at_2_26_42_PM_jpg-1125936.JPG 
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:42:36 AM EDT
[#30]
I saw all of this coming when the first advertisement appeared here. You can guess where it is going.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:44:50 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We see this with MJ laws, go anywhere in Cali and you are good with an OZ, get pulled in TX with .3% THC in your CBD oil and it's prison. I am pretty sure if I promote MJ use here in ARFCOM I will get a ban, even though it's legal for med use in my state and soon for anyone. Going to be tough for them to keep track of all the gun laws me thinks. Mods will be dividing by zero soon. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:45:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Under the strictest interpretation of the CoC discussing such an act would be verboten. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:46:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just remember though, we aren't black folks sitting at a White Only lunch counter. The police cracking down on us when we flout the law isn't going to generate much public sympathy.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:46:56 AM EDT
[#34]
Rhetorically asking, how many bumpstocks are still out there? How many standard capacity, and larger magazines still around in NJ, NY, CT, MA in the possession of otherwise law biding citizens?
Will I get spanked for asking? Rhetorically asking? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:48:38 AM EDT
[#35]
It should be allowed.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:49:14 AM EDT
[#36]
The simple answer is the CoC must be changed or this site will die. Period.
We should not have a CoC that prohibits doing the right thing. Resistance and civil disobedience of unjust laws is virtuous. It is the right thing. The fact that you can name every historical American hero from Sam Adams to Martian Luther King Jr. and they’d all get banned if they were here today is proof that Arfcom is in the wrong. This is not Canada, England, or Australia. We will NOT follow rules of engagement meant to appease the enemy. I assert that this message is not a CoC violation (7) because it is made from a desire to save this site from management/ownership induced failure. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:50:36 AM EDT
[#37]
The CoC is worded such that almost anything anyone might ever want to post could be technically considered a violation if someone wanted it to be. Because of that we then get extremely confusing and erratically enforcement plus some righteous heavy handedness thrown in for good measure.
People seem to be freely allowed to talk about pirating movies and TV's a lot, including things like setting up a plex server which is going to include one felony for every piece of media you rip . Then on the other side of the coin we can't really show diagrams of certain firearm parts or talk about how they work despite this being a firearm related site. We technically cannot even post a picture of how a bump stock works now if everything were to be applied equally across the board. Personally, I don't care for this and would prefer we just allow most open dialog (even about breaking the law) and over the years the heavy handed and lopsided enforcement has driven away some great members so I have to think harder every time my renewal comes up if it is worth it. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:51:18 AM EDT
[#38]
From Martin Luther King's Letter From Birmingham Jail:
YOU express a great deal of anxiety over our willingness to break laws. This is certainly a legitimate concern. Since we so diligently urge people to obey the Supreme Court's decision of 1954 outlawing segregation in the public schools, it is rather strange and paradoxical to find us consciously breaking laws. One may well ask, "How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?" The answer is found in the fact that there are two types of laws: there are just laws, and there are unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that "An unjust law is no law at all." |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:52:55 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree that it was locked for the correct reasons. OP can travel through the state of CO with standard capacity mags LEGALLY. Please see the link below. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/So-when-does-Paul-get-banned-/5-2263925/&page=5#i81470229 Just because Paul was either unaware of or forgot about the federal law protecting the OP’s right to do what he was asking to do, doesn’t mean that telling the OP to do what he was asking was promoting an illegal activity. FOPA disagrees with Paul’s opinion of the matter. Paul locked the thread in part to take a stand that he was fighting from the moral high ground, when in reality, he was issuing warnings and stifling discussion based on his lack of information. FOPA is the moral high ground. Peaceful protest of unconstitutional laws is the moral high ground. I have repeatedly asked for mods and staff in GD to keep responses professional and friendly in response to members and issues. Yes we have had and currently still have issues with this. It is one of the things i am trying to fix. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:56:06 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How long could it possibly take to review? It was either a COC violation to call a member a shit-for-brains or it was not a COC violation. If it was a COC violation, and it was, the employee who did it should be sanctioned. He has proven that he can not be trusted to obey the same rules he is expected to enforce. The only correct remedy to that situation is to strip him of his responsibility of enforcing rules he has demonstrated an inability to follow. The review shouldn't take any longer than the matter of seconds it took me to type the previous few sentences. He is an employee of the site and SHOULD ABSOLUTELY be held to a higher standard than the rest of the members. I don't give a shit about how long he's been around, whose friend he is in real life, or any laundry list of great things he's done in the past. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:57:15 AM EDT
[#41]
The one thing that I don't understand is what Brownells has to do with this.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:57:26 AM EDT
[#42]
This thread is proof as to why these new/old rules suck
It's a gun forum, not a FB group |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:58:14 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Allow me to play Devil's Advocate... What happens when some journalist or gun control advocate stumbles across our discussion and it leads to a News 7 Investigates piece about the ineffectiveness of Colorado's gun safety measures due to non-enforcement? This prompts the politicians to start pushing on the enforcement agencies, who in turn start making examples of people. Like I said, I don't know if it is better to do it openly or quietly. Quietly you have less chance of getting in trouble, openly you have a greater chance of having an impact. Just remember though, we aren't black folks sitting at a White Only lunch counter. The police cracking down on us when we flout the law isn't going to generate much public sympathy. We are quite literally the most dangerous voting block in the most powerful nation on the planet. If you teleported the gun-owning population of the US into China, living under Chinese law... the CCP would violently cease to exist in months. You may not realize it, but that fear is the only weapon keeping us from our enumerated civil rights. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 9:59:19 AM EDT
[#44]
We're going to need to start exchanging PGP keys and posting encrypted messages.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:00:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread is proof as to why these new/old rules suck It's a |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:04:20 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
people encouraging people from outside the state to bring them into a state with an actual ban is the issue. i am not going to pretend that i or anyone else outside Co is an expert on that law. Paul did what he believed was correct on the way the discussion was going. I will back him on that decision. We are not legal experts. had the discussion remained on the legal issues and discussion of the law i would have seen no issue and i doubt he would have either. I am not happy with the way he handled it or the following trolling thread he started. I have repeatedly asked for mods and staff in GD to keep responses professional and friendly in response to members and issues. Yes we have had and currently still have issues with this. It is one of the things i am trying to fix. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I disagree that it was locked for the correct reasons. OP can travel through the state of CO with standard capacity mags LEGALLY. Please see the link below. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/So-when-does-Paul-get-banned-/5-2263925/&page=5#i81470229 Just because Paul was either unaware of or forgot about the federal law protecting the OP's right to do what he was asking to do, doesn't mean that telling the OP to do what he was asking was promoting an illegal activity. FOPA disagrees with Paul's opinion of the matter. Paul locked the thread in part to take a stand that he was fighting from the moral high ground, when in reality, he was issuing warnings and stifling discussion based on his lack of information. FOPA is the moral high ground. Peaceful protest of unconstitutional laws is the moral high ground. I have repeatedly asked for mods and staff in GD to keep responses professional and friendly in response to members and issues. Yes we have had and currently still have issues with this. It is one of the things i am trying to fix. Even attorneys admit they are only versed in certain areas and dont practice in the ones they dont know. Arf should do the same. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:06:35 AM EDT
[#47]
There are whole sites dedicated to using illegal drugs.
Why arent they all victims of the Feds "magic box"? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:07:10 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rhetorically asking, how many bumpstocks are still out there? How many standard capacity, and larger magazines still around in NJ, NY, CT, MA in the possession of otherwise law biding citizens? Will I get spanked for asking? Rhetorically asking? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:08:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are whole sites dedicated to using illegal drugs. Why arent they all victims of the Feds "magic box"? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:08:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact that you can name every historical American hero from Sam Adams to Martian Luther King Jr. and they’d all get banned if they were here today is proof that Arfcom is in the wrong. This is not Canada, England, or Australia. We will NOT follow rules of engagement meant to appease the enemy. |
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