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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:23:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you follow the teachings of Jesus, but don't believe in God? If you think most human beings don't have that sense of wrong and right instilled in them at birth.....that's a pretty shitty outlook on humanity. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:27:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you follow the teachings of Jesus, but don't believe in God? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: To be honest...I've never really even though about it. Not sure I believe in a "god", but I can't say there isn't one. This may sound bad....but I just don't care. I live my life under the rule of "treat others how you would like to be treated". When I hear preachers talk.....would could switch out the word "God" with "the giant panda", or "holy elephant".....and it would all be the same to me. I've just never understood any of it.......but I don't go around telling people there is no god, or they shouldn't go to church. I just don't care.....people can do what ever they want, believe in what ever they want. I bet you think social rules like “don’t lie, murder, steal, or commit adultery” didn’t exist before themTen Commandments either. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:28:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I follow common sense, basic morals. Do you need the teachings of Jesus to tell you that murder is wrong? To tell you that treating people like shit is wrong? To tell you that lieing and stealing is wrong? To tell you that banging your neighbors wife is wrong. Etc etc etc.....???? If you think most human beings don't have that sense of wrong and right instilled in them at birth.....that's a pretty shitty outlook on humanity. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:31:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I follow common sense, basic morals. Do you need the teachings of Jesus to tell you that murder is wrong? To tell you that treating people like shit is wrong? To tell you that lieing and stealing is wrong? To tell you that banging your neighbors wife is wrong. Etc etc etc.....???? If you think most human beings don't have that sense of wrong and right instilled in them at birth.....that's a pretty shitty outlook on humanity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: So you follow the teachings of Jesus, but don't believe in God? If you think most human beings don't have that sense of wrong and right instilled in them at birth.....that's a pretty shitty outlook on humanity. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:32:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryDidn't work Quote History |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:36:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you think most human beings don't have that sense of wrong and right instilled in them at birth.....that's a pretty shitty outlook on humanity. If you don’t believe me, look at the feral youth in our inner cities. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:38:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we want to talk in the abstract, what makes murder, theft, or adultery wrong? If I raise a child from birth and install a belief that it's acceptable to steal, does that child have a built in from birth knowledge that it was wrong? If I raise a child to be feral, and just provide it with food and shelter, but no outside societal influence, does that child know that any of the things you mentioned are wrong? If we are born with a sense of right and wrong, why is murder, theft, lieing, and adultery all so common? Even among those who have clear societal pressure to not do these things? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:40:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those things being "wrong" either comes from "The Man" or God. They certainly make it easier to run a functioning civilization.....right and wrong do come from somewhere and it's worth pondering. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If we want to talk in the abstract, what makes murder, theft, or adultery wrong? If I raise a child from birth and install a belief that it's acceptable to steal, does that child have a built in from birth knowledge that it was wrong? If I raise a child to be feral, and just provide it with food and shelter, but no outside societal influence, does that child know that any of the things you mentioned are wrong? If we are born with a sense of right and wrong, why is murder, theft, lieing, and adultery all so common? Even among those who have clear societal pressure to not do these things? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:43:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd agree with the premise that thy come from somewhere. So the question should be what and were do the values and "moral belief structure" of a modern member of western society come from? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:49:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Confident, not arrogant. Not needing help is not a bad thing. Not having a hole that needs filled is a benefit, not a hindrance. Being capable of coping with "life" without needing emotional support in the form of a "god" is not a sign of weakness. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:50:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is God fully in charge of this world? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
God is everywhere. Only a fool thinks that he is fully in charge of his world. Go learn about your creator both in and out of church. One day you will be glad you did. It seems He factors in every action and movement with purpose for an ultimate new beginning. So then, if God, is not in charge and doesn't have the full capability of control, then at least logically, He is not God, but even being possibly One who shares His supposed universal powers with possibly other gods. Of some sort. The Christian Bible clearly states that at one juncture, Jesus Christ, and Satan had a meet. The Devil told Christ after He fasted for a very long while, and physically weakened, was tempted by the Devil or Satan claiming that he would give Him this authority, concerning world control, if He were to bow down and worship him (Satan). It is recorded that Satan made a claim to Christ, that the world, or some certain aspect of the world, like the world system of politics and commerce belonged to him. Furthermore, Satan stated that he had the power on his own to give it, or part of it, to anyone that he wanted. Now, the Bible claims that Satan is a liar and the father of all lies. Yet, Jesus Christ did not at that time dispute his claim. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:56:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He at least has foreknowledge of everything according to the history of everything that will take place. It seems He factors in every action and movement with purpose for an ultimate new beginning. So then, if God, is not in charge and doesn't have the full capability of control, then at least logically, He is not God, but even being possibly One who shares His supposed universal powers with possibly other gods. Of some sort. The Christian Bible clearly states that at one juncture, Jesus Christ, and Satan had a meet. The Devil told Christ after He fasted for a very long while, and physically weakened, was tempted by the Devil or Satan. It is recorded that Satan made a claim to Christ the the world, or some certain aspect of the world, like the world system of politics and commerce belonged to him. Furthermore, Satan stated that he had the power on his own to give it, or part of it, to anyone that he wanted. Now, the Bible claims that Satan is a liar and the father of all lies. Yet, Jesus Christ did not at that time dispute his claim. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
God is everywhere. Only a fool thinks that he is fully in charge of his world. Go learn about your creator both in and out of church. One day you will be glad you did. It seems He factors in every action and movement with purpose for an ultimate new beginning. So then, if God, is not in charge and doesn't have the full capability of control, then at least logically, He is not God, but even being possibly One who shares His supposed universal powers with possibly other gods. Of some sort. The Christian Bible clearly states that at one juncture, Jesus Christ, and Satan had a meet. The Devil told Christ after He fasted for a very long while, and physically weakened, was tempted by the Devil or Satan. It is recorded that Satan made a claim to Christ the the world, or some certain aspect of the world, like the world system of politics and commerce belonged to him. Furthermore, Satan stated that he had the power on his own to give it, or part of it, to anyone that he wanted. Now, the Bible claims that Satan is a liar and the father of all lies. Yet, Jesus Christ did not at that time dispute his claim. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:57:08 PM EDT
[#13]
"...I’m a very strong willed, confident, emotionally strong person...."
You're a liar. When you stop lying to yourself, you'll stop lying to others. Only then can you get to work on acquiring those traits. Asking Jesus for help would do you good. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:58:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I know this is a sensitive topic, and I'm not trying to insult anyone....but I just want to ask the question. My wife is not super religious, but likes to go to church once a month or so. She says it makes her feel better…I’m ok with that. Every now and then she asks me to go with her…..I don’t want to, but it’s my wife…and a marriage is a compromise. I’m a very strong willed, confident, emotionally strong person. Everything good or bad that happens to me is because of my own hard work, my good choices, my bad choices, or good/bad luck….that’s it. I don’t know how people can sit for an hour and listen to some preacher get up there ramble on and on about how they need to look for a higher power to believe in when things get them down, when things don’t go right, or when they are having a rough time with life. I can listen to it for about 5 min, and my eyes glaze over and I’m thinking about riding dirt bikes, fishing, or a multitude of other things. I guess I just can’t wrap my mind around how people can be so emotionally fragile, so weak minded, so out of touch with reality that they can’t realize that everything that happens to them is of their own doing….nothing more, nothing less. What am I missing here? The Bible also says that you will reap what you sow. This is consistent with your belief of work hard=good things. The Bible is entirely consistent with being a "strong" man. The wussification of males is a recent invention of the modern church. Jesus Himself wasn't a limp-wristed sissy. He worked as a carpenter and overturned tables in the temple! What you are missing is the Word of God. Try listening to a real pastor like Pastor Lawson (on youtube), or David Lankford at http://www.blogtalkradio.com/voiceofevangelism If you aren't ready to go there yet, read some of the stuff from the Founding of our nation in the 1700s. Those were real Christian men, and they were very strong and very smart. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:58:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, that is incoherent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
God is everywhere. Only a fool thinks that he is fully in charge of his world. Go learn about your creator both in and out of church. One day you will be glad you did. It seems He factors in every action and movement with purpose for an ultimate new beginning. So then, if God, is not in charge and doesn't have the full capability of control, then at least logically, He is not God, but even being possibly One who shares His supposed universal powers with possibly other gods. Of some sort. The Christian Bible clearly states that at one juncture, Jesus Christ, and Satan had a meet. The Devil told Christ after He fasted for a very long while, and physically weakened, was tempted by the Devil or Satan. It is recorded that Satan made a claim to Christ the the world, or some certain aspect of the world, like the world system of politics and commerce belonged to him. Furthermore, Satan stated that he had the power on his own to give it, or part of it, to anyone that he wanted. Now, the Bible claims that Satan is a liar and the father of all lies. Yet, Jesus Christ did not at that time dispute his claim. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 11:02:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, that is incoherent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
God is everywhere. Only a fool thinks that he is fully in charge of his world. Go learn about your creator both in and out of church. One day you will be glad you did. It seems He factors in every action and movement with purpose for an ultimate new beginning. So then, if God, is not in charge and doesn't have the full capability of control, then at least logically, He is not God, but even being possibly One who shares His supposed universal powers with possibly other gods. Of some sort. The Christian Bible clearly states that at one juncture, Jesus Christ, and Satan had a meet. The Devil told Christ after He fasted for a very long while, and physically weakened, was tempted by the Devil or Satan. It is recorded that Satan made a claim to Christ the the world, or some certain aspect of the world, like the world system of politics and commerce belonged to him. Furthermore, Satan stated that he had the power on his own to give it, or part of it, to anyone that he wanted. Now, the Bible claims that Satan is a liar and the father of all lies. Yet, Jesus Christ did not at that time dispute his claim. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 11:07:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course it is, at least to those who do the work of satan. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 11:13:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Aren't you taking it a little too serious considering you don't believe in fairy tales?
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Posted: 3/20/2019 11:15:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aren't you taking it a little too serious considering you don't believe in fairy tales? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 11:20:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s definitely making this atheist scratch his non-believing head. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Aren't you taking it a little too serious considering you don't believe in fairy tales? |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 12:17:22 AM EDT
[#21]
Believers derive so much from their beliefs, it can become really difficult to communicate across the divide, or even to understand.
I do think it's wrong to attribute religious belief to personal failings in this way, although in my opinion theism and dogmatism generally are terrible operating systems to run a consciousness on, it doesn't necessarily indicate a hardware problem. It's just sad. The fact that they derive their sense of morality from their beliefs, rather than the other way around, has some interesting effects though. Particularly when they apply what they imagine they'd be in the absence of those beliefs to people who derive those things elsewhere, or what happens when they fail to their absence. Religion is an almost perfect recipe for conflict with everyone else. Everybody is going to end up insulted, that's why it's a taboo to even have this kind of discussion in most settings. What's really bothering me right now is whether you believe or not has a massive effect on how you're going to view religion being a pillar of civilization, that's a chasm that's really difficult to bridge. I don't agree with those who say they don't believe but still think religion is a good thing that helps people. There are massive opportunity costs, then it's clearly occupying cultural territory it cannot hold, and our current situation vs. the left starts to look incredibly bleak. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 12:21:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: (Lots of love. -40xb) |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 12:21:55 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Believers derive so much from their beliefs, it can become really difficult to communicate across the divide, or even to understand. I do think it's wrong to attribute religious belief to personal failings in this way, although in my opinion theism and dogmatism generally are terrible operating systems to run a consciousness on, it doesn't necessarily indicate a hardware problem. It's just sad. The fact that they derive their sense of morality from their beliefs, rather than the other way around, has some interesting effects though. Particularly when they apply what they imagine they'd be in the absence of those beliefs to people who derive those things elsewhere, or what happens when they fail to their absence. Religion is an almost perfect recipe for conflict with everyone else. Everybody is going to end up insulted, that's why it's a taboo to even have this kind of discussion in most settings. What's really bothering me right now is whether you believe or not has a massive effect on how you're going to view religion being a pillar of civilization, that's a chasm that's really difficult to bridge. I don't agree with those who say they don't believe but still think religion is a good thing that helps people. There are massive opportunity costs, then it's clearly occupying cultural territory it cannot hold, and our current situation vs. the left starts to look incredibly bleak. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 12:35:28 AM EDT
[#24]
One thing that I've noticed about Atheists, is that they so fervently try to cram their beliefs (or lack thereof) down everyone's through, that they forget why they hate Christians so much - cramming their beliefs down people's throats.
I've also noticed that it's mainly Christians that are the focus of their hate and derision. They will give a quiet pass to just about everyone else and I don't think I've ever heard an Atheist go apeshit on Muslims. They are either pussies that are scared of the muzzies - or they live by a double standard. Me? I'm Christian, but think everyone has a right to believe whatever they want and I'm sure as hell not going to try to convince anyone to become Christian - that's their own business. 
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Posted: 3/21/2019 12:38:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Not getting into this debate now but I’m all those things and a Christian.
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Posted: 3/21/2019 12:39:08 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m confident, self-reliant (to a point) and strong minded. I am also a pastor. If you’d like to have an honest conversation pm me. I’ll even give you my cell number and we can talk |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 12:48:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing that I've noticed about Atheists, is that they so fervently try to cram their beliefs (or lack thereof) down everyone's through, that they forget why they hate Christians so much - cramming their beliefs down people's throats. I've also noticed that it's mainly Christians that are the focus of their hate and derision. They will give a quiet pass to just about everyone else and I don't think I've ever heard an Atheist go apeshit on Muslims. They are either pussies that are scared of the muzzies - or they live by a double standard. Me? I'm Christian, but think everyone has a right to believe whatever they want and I'm sure as hell not going to try to convince anyone to become Christian - that's their own business. New atheism was a response to 9/11. Nearly everyone who's known for their atheism these days is also known for being hard on Islam. Hitchen's book was titled "God is not great" for a reason. Dawkens had his books translated into arabic and made millions of copies available for free in Islamic nations. Harris is more famous for his stances against Islam and his work with apostates than for atheism. And on and on. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 12:55:16 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
I know this is a sensitive topic, and I'm not trying to insult anyone....but I just want to ask the question. My wife is not super religious, but likes to go to church once a month or so. She says it makes her feel better…I’m ok with that. Every now and then she asks me to go with her…..I don’t want to, but it’s my wife…and a marriage is a compromise. I’m a very strong willed, confident, emotionally strong person. Everything good or bad that happens to me is because of my own hard work, my good choices, my bad choices, or good/bad luck….that’s it. I don’t know how people can sit for an hour and listen to some preacher get up there ramble on and on about how they need to look for a higher power to believe in when things get them down, when things don’t go right, or when they are having a rough time with life. I can listen to it for about 5 min, and my eyes glaze over and I’m thinking about riding dirt bikes, fishing, or a multitude of other things. I guess I just can’t wrap my mind around how people can be so emotionally fragile, so weak minded, so out of touch with reality that they can’t realize that everything that happens to them is of their own doing….nothing more, nothing less. What am I missing here? |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 12:58:23 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing that I've noticed about Atheists, is that they so fervently try to cram their beliefs (or lack thereof) down everyone's through, that they forget why they hate Christians so much - cramming their beliefs down people's throats. I've also noticed that it's mainly Christians that are the focus of their hate and derision. They will give a quiet pass to just about everyone else and I don't think I've ever heard an Atheist go apeshit on Muslims. They are either pussies that are scared of the muzzies - or they live by a double standard. Me? I'm Christian, but think everyone has a right to believe whatever they want and I'm sure as hell not going to try to convince anyone to become Christian - that's their own business. because we are the only tangibles that they have in order to be in opposition to concerning a God who earnestly loves them too. That is, if this is what they want, or do not want, and this is what they do in the sense of their evangelical practices for whatever reason. And more important, additionally, the word of God as a standard that they say they don't believe in. But as you, I have noticed that they give many other, "religions," a more or less free pass also. Just an ongoing observation that's all. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 6:41:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get what you mean, and you're right. However, quite a few of us have been treated like absolute dogshit by people who do the same kind of thing they treat others like shit over. Quick story about one reason I lost all interest in organized religion- I got my GF pregnant in HS, and I went to a private Christian school. I had two options according to the principal- say I wasn't the father (that my GF was sleeping around) or get expelled. I got expelled. So at a time I could have used some "Christianness" from my so-called Christian school, I was kicked out. Whatever, not the end of the world. Come to find out later the principal was having an affair. Yeah, everyone falls short- you're right. But that means you should probably show some understanding towards others right? Also something something plank from your own eye... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I cannot stand hypocrites either. Fyi not all churches are like that. Quick story about one reason I lost all interest in organized religion- I got my GF pregnant in HS, and I went to a private Christian school. I had two options according to the principal- say I wasn't the father (that my GF was sleeping around) or get expelled. I got expelled. So at a time I could have used some "Christianness" from my so-called Christian school, I was kicked out. Whatever, not the end of the world. Come to find out later the principal was having an affair. Yeah, everyone falls short- you're right. But that means you should probably show some understanding towards others right? Also something something plank from your own eye... |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 6:43:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd agree with the premise that thy come from somewhere. So the question should be what and were do the values and "moral belief structure" of a modern member of western society come from? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: If we want to talk in the abstract, what makes murder, theft, or adultery wrong? If I raise a child from birth and install a belief that it's acceptable to steal, does that child have a built in from birth knowledge that it was wrong? If I raise a child to be feral, and just provide it with food and shelter, but no outside societal influence, does that child know that any of the things you mentioned are wrong? If we are born with a sense of right and wrong, why is murder, theft, lieing, and adultery all so common? Even among those who have clear societal pressure to not do these things? |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 6:46:28 AM EDT
[#32]
This thread proves that non-believers are naturally offended by God’s Word. Of course they will say it’s a fairy tale, but they sure go out of their way to argue in threads about Christianity.
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Posted: 3/21/2019 7:07:15 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd agree with the premise that thy come from somewhere. So the question should be what and were do the values and "moral belief structure" of a modern member of western society come from? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: If we want to talk in the abstract, what makes murder, theft, or adultery wrong? If I raise a child from birth and install a belief that it's acceptable to steal, does that child have a built in from birth knowledge that it was wrong? If I raise a child to be feral, and just provide it with food and shelter, but no outside societal influence, does that child know that any of the things you mentioned are wrong? If we are born with a sense of right and wrong, why is murder, theft, lieing, and adultery all so common? Even among those who have clear societal pressure to not do these things? Murdering, lying, stealing, adultery, were identified thousands of years ago as corrosive to a stable functioning society. There's nothing in the Ten Commandments that was novel or unique except monolatry (the worship of one god without denying the existence of others). |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 7:19:44 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Western Civilization is a result of the 2000-year intertwining of Roman civic virtues, Greek arts, science, and logic, Jewish Mosaic laws, and Christianity. Christianity is a huge influence, but it is not the only influence. Murdering, lying, stealing, adultery, were identified thousands of years ago as corrosive to a stable functioning society. There's nothing in the Ten Commandments that was novel or unique except monolatry (the worship of one god without denying the existence of others). |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 7:24:24 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The hole in your argument is that God was there at the start, same God , same rules, you’re assuming a time line from Advent on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Western Civilization is a result of the 2000-year intertwining of Roman civic virtues, Greek arts, science, and logic, Jewish Mosaic laws, and Christianity. Christianity is a huge influence, but it is not the only influence. Murdering, lying, stealing, adultery, were identified thousands of years ago as corrosive to a stable functioning society. There's nothing in the Ten Commandments that was novel or unique except monolatry (the worship of one god without denying the existence of others). Wow, who knew? |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 8:01:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so the Code of Ur-Nammu, Hammurabi's Code, Athenian democracy, the Laws of Lycurgus in Sparta, the Romans' Twelve Tables, and all the rest were directly influenced by and drew upon the Torah's Mosaic law? Wow, who knew? |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 8:10:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
your understanding of the timeline as depicted in the Bible is lacking, whether out of ignorance or deliberate is on you |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 8:10:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I know this is a sensitive topic, and I'm not trying to insult anyone....but I just want to ask the question. My wife is not super religious, but likes to go to church once a month or so. She says it makes her feel betterI'm ok with that. Every now and then she asks me to go with her..I don't want to, but it's my wifeand a marriage is a compromise. I'm a very strong willed, confident, emotionally strong person. Everything good or bad that happens to me is because of my own hard work, my good choices, my bad choices, or good/bad luck.that's it. I don't know how people can sit for an hour and listen to some preacher get up there ramble on and on about how they need to look for a higher power to believe in when things get them down, when things don't go right, or when they are having a rough time with life. I can listen to it for about 5 min, and my eyes glaze over and I'm thinking about riding dirt bikes, fishing, or a multitude of other things. I guess I just can't wrap my mind around how people can be so emotionally fragile, so weak minded, so out of touch with reality that they can't realize that everything that happens to them is of their own doing.nothing more, nothing less. What am I missing here? Very little if anything you do in life is of your own doing. Where you are born, when you are born, who your parents are, who your friends are, what personality set you have, your natural talents, etc. are all out of your control. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 8:13:53 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
your understanding of the timeline as depicted in the Bible is lacking, whether out of ignorance or deliberate is on you Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: so the Code of Ur-Nammu, Hammurabi's Code, Athenian democracy, the Laws of Lycurgus in Sparta, the Romans' Twelve Tables, and all the rest were directly influenced by and drew upon the Torah's Mosaic law? Wow, who knew? Hammurabi's Code -- 1700BC Moses receives 10 Commandments and other Mosaic laws -- 1500BC Laws of Lycurgus -- 800-700BC Athenian democracy -- 600-500BC Roman Twelve Tables -- 449BC Jesus Christ's ministry -- 33AD what am I missing, and how did Judeo-Christian laws and teaching directly influence (1) codes that existed before Mosaic law and (2) Greek/Roman law between the Israelites' receipt of Mosaic law and the ministry of Jesus Christ? Pro-Tip: "God willed it" is a cop-out. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 8:22:43 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Code of Ur-Nammu -- 2100BC Hammurabi's Code -- 1700BC Moses receives 10 Commandments and other Mosaic laws -- 1500BC Laws of Lycurgus -- 800-700BC Athenian democracy -- 600-500BC Roman Twelve Tables -- 449BC Jesus Christ's ministry -- 33AD what am I missing, and how did Judeo-Christian laws and teaching directly influence (1) codes that existed before Mosaic law and (2) Greek/Roman law between the Israelites' receipt of Mosaic law and the ministry of Jesus Christ? Pro-Tip: "God willed it" is a cop-out. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 8:32:36 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Code of Ur-Nammu -- 2100BC Hammurabi's Code -- 1700BC Moses receives 10 Commandments and other Mosaic laws -- 1500BC Laws of Lycurgus -- 800-700BC Athenian democracy -- 600-500BC Roman Twelve Tables -- 449BC Jesus Christ's ministry -- 33AD what am I missing, and how did Judeo-Christian laws and teaching directly influence (1) codes that existed before Mosaic law and (2) Greek/Roman law between the Israelites' receipt of Mosaic law and the ministry of Jesus Christ? Pro-Tip: "God willed it" is a cop-out. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 9:01:47 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very little if anything you do in life is of your own doing. Where you are born, when you are born, who your parents are, who your friends are, what personality set you have, your natural talents, etc. are all out of your control. Which is it? This whole "higher power" thing seems to be constantly twisted, bent, and manipulated in a fashion that works for any and every situation.....depending on how the person is trying to justify the validity of their beliefs. None of this sells me on the whole "higher power" idea........there is no constant, no base point, nothing that is concrete. Too bad facts and logic don't work like that. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 9:02:25 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't Abraham come from Ur of the Chaldees and considered a part of the Ur III Dynasty? He would have know about the Code of Ur-Nammu as a contemporary. Just a question not a pot stir. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 9:05:00 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"...I’m a very strong willed, confident, emotionally strong person...." You're a liar. When you stop lying to yourself, you'll stop lying to others. Only then can you get to work on acquiring those traits. Asking Jesus for help would do you good. 
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Posted: 3/21/2019 9:24:08 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok....so now I'm confused even more. First people tell me "god controls everything in your world"....then it's "you have your own free will, God doesn't control you".....now we are back to "everything that happens to you is because of God, you are not in control". Which is it? This whole "higher power" thing seems to be constantly twisted, bent, and manipulated in a fashion that works for any and every situation.....depending on how the person is trying to justify the validity of their beliefs. None of this sells me on the whole "higher power" idea........there is no constant, no base point, nothing that is concrete. Too bad facts and logic don't work like that. God's word is twisted and perverted by people all the time. Why not check it out for yourself? |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 9:31:04 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the point is it has been the same God the whole time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Code of Ur-Nammu -- 2100BC Hammurabi's Code -- 1700BC Moses receives 10 Commandments and other Mosaic laws -- 1500BC Laws of Lycurgus -- 800-700BC Athenian democracy -- 600-500BC Roman Twelve Tables -- 449BC Jesus Christ's ministry -- 33AD what am I missing, and how did Judeo-Christian laws and teaching directly influence (1) codes that existed before Mosaic law and (2) Greek/Roman law between the Israelites' receipt of Mosaic law and the ministry of Jesus Christ? Pro-Tip: "God willed it" is a cop-out. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 9:36:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't Abraham come from Ur of the Chaldees and considered a part of the Ur III Dynasty? He would have know about the Code of Ur-Nammu as a contemporary. Just a question not a pot stir. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Code of Ur-Nammu -- 2100BC Hammurabi's Code -- 1700BC Moses receives 10 Commandments and other Mosaic laws -- 1500BC Laws of Lycurgus -- 800-700BC Athenian democracy -- 600-500BC Roman Twelve Tables -- 449BC Jesus Christ's ministry -- 33AD what am I missing, and how did Judeo-Christian laws and teaching directly influence (1) codes that existed before Mosaic law and (2) Greek/Roman law between the Israelites' receipt of Mosaic law and the ministry of Jesus Christ? Pro-Tip: "God willed it" is a cop-out. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 9:39:01 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Western Civilization is a result of the 2000-year intertwining of Roman civic virtues, Greek arts, science, and logic, Jewish Mosaic laws, and Christianity. Christianity is a huge influence, but it is not the only influence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: If we want to talk in the abstract, what makes murder, theft, or adultery wrong? If I raise a child from birth and install a belief that it's acceptable to steal, does that child have a built in from birth knowledge that it was wrong? If I raise a child to be feral, and just provide it with food and shelter, but no outside societal influence, does that child know that any of the things you mentioned are wrong? If we are born with a sense of right and wrong, why is murder, theft, lieing, and adultery all so common? Even among those who have clear societal pressure to not do these things? Beliefs are installed on us by society, and society builds it's beliefs over time from tradition, science and religion. They are not however "born with us". A Christain would call this "born into sin", others might call it the "natural state of man". So the only question now is why the OP still despertly clings to the idea that his basic core beliefs come from within. That he was "born with them". If he admits that society plays a role, does he lose his "strong minded"ness? Must he admit he's as "weakminded" as other men? Is he so "out of touch with reality" that he can't understand that society affects his daily life and actions more than he cares to admit? |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 9:44:25 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Code of Ur-Nammu -- 2100BC Hammurabi's Code -- 1700BC Moses receives 10 Commandments and other Mosaic laws -- 1500BC Laws of Lycurgus -- 800-700BC Athenian democracy -- 600-500BC Roman Twelve Tables -- 449BC Jesus Christ's ministry -- 33AD what am I missing, and how did Judeo-Christian laws and teaching directly influence (1) codes that existed before Mosaic law and (2) Greek/Roman law between the Israelites' receipt of Mosaic law and the ministry of Jesus Christ? Pro-Tip: "God willed it" is a cop-out. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 9:47:36 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd agree 100%. Beliefs are installed on us by society, and society builds it's beliefs over time from tradition, science and religion. They are not however "born with us". A Christain would call this "born into sin", others might call it the "natural state of man". So the only question now is why the OP still despertly clings to the idea that his basic core beliefs come from within. That he was "born with them". If he admits that society plays a role, does he lose his "strong minded"ness? Must he admit he's as "weakminded" as other men? I wouldn't let society be my moral compass. History has proven that to be foolish. |
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