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Posted: 3/10/2019 2:21:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And here is Capt Mbawbwa, future senior pilot of Ethiopian Airlines, inspecting his new found multi-tool. Quote HistoryQuoted:
And here is Capt Mbawbwa, future senior pilot of Ethiopian Airlines, inspecting his new found multi-tool. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 2:25:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless they've moved Ethiopia in the last few days, yes. Lots of Americans ride on Ethiopian. And, this is the 2nd MAX 8 hull since October. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 2:35:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote History |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:10:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll wait for the reports. African airlines don’t have the best safety record, and 99% of their crashes are pilot error. I’d bet some cash that this ends up being the same issue. This plane is 4 months old. This is not an issue endemic to Ethiopia air, this is a software issue in the Boeing Super Max. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:16:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The reports are in at this point and we have two threads about it. This plane is 4 months old. This is not an issue endemic to Ethiopia air, this is a software issue in the Boeing Super Max. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:19:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My view at this point is that I would not travel on a SuperMax 737 for the near term. I've worked tons of ops with the MAX and flown on it a few times. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:21:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eh. SWA is flying the shit out of the max right now, with almost zero issues except nearly being as slow as an airbus. I've worked tons of ops with the MAX and flown on it a few times. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:21:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll wait for the reports. African airlines don’t have the best safety record, and 99% of their crashes are pilot error. I’d bet some cash that this ends up being the same issue. Something is funky here, it seems Boeing deliberately withheld info about some auto safety devices in order not to confuse pilots with too much info. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:22:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Scary
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:22:46 PM EDT
[#10]
If it ain’t Boeing I ain’t....oh wait.
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:23:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The reports are in at this point and we have two threads about it. This plane is 4 months old. This is not an issue endemic to Ethiopia air, this is a software issue in the Boeing Super Max. Quote HistoryQuoted: The reports are in at this point and we have two threads about it. This plane is 4 months old. This is not an issue endemic to Ethiopia air, this is a software issue in the Boeing Super Max. It might be because of the MCAS system on the. MAX, or it might be aliens. Either is just as likely at this point. Quoted: My view at this point is that I would not travel on a SuperMax 737 for the near term. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:23:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TC |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:26:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Third world airline gonna third world? May those involved RIP.  TC |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:29:24 PM EDT
[#14]
My best guess is a software bug we may never know they find.
With all the digital crap we have nowadays, all it takes is a couple lines of code to be off and you're screwed. Sure they say "but we're redundant multiple times over," but some bad software can render all those backups useless. I manage a team of developers. 
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:30:04 PM EDT
[#15]
 117. BOEING 737-800 NG COCKPIT Magic of Flight (Trailer) |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:32:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would you say the density altitude at Addis Ababa may have contributed? |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:33:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Edited ~ medicmandan
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:35:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
those pics look more like a garbage dump instead of a crash site. With all that gas there should be burned stuff everywhere including a grass fire. If that is a pic of the crash site, looks like there was no gas, but that would be extremely unlikely so something is funky 
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:36:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Edited ~ medicmandan |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:40:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Lots of Americans ride on Ethiopian. And, this is the 2nd MAX 8 hull since October. 
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:41:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Considering all of humanity comes from Africa, I'd like to see some studies Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Edited ~ medicmandan |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:41:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keep it classy ARFCOM, Americans aren’t nearly as smart and special as we think we are, being complacent and proudly ignorant about the rest of the world is no way to go through life. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And here is Capt Mbawbwa, future senior pilot of Ethiopian Airlines, inspecting his new found multi-tool. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 3:42:17 PM EDT
[#23]
MCAS trying to fix a plane with too many mods?
https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/boeing-nearing-737-max-fleet-bulletin-on-aoa-warning-after-lion-air-crash/ |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 4:04:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Background on 737 MCAS
Not a pilot. Does the MCAS advisory make the whole system a little more complex than normal? |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 4:06:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't want to be too simplistic about it, but "unstable vertical speed after takeoff" sounds a lot like that thing with Lion Air. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 4:07:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless they've moved Ethiopia in the last few days, yes. Lots of Americans ride on Ethiopian. And, this is the 2nd MAX 8 hull since October. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Africa you say? Lots of Americans ride on Ethiopian. And, this is the 2nd MAX 8 hull since October. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 4:41:50 PM EDT
[#27]
So there's Lion Air 610, which was a 737 Max 8, Atlas Air was a 767-375ER, Ethiopian 302 was a 737 Max 8, all of those planes were lost. Then Ethiopian Airlines posted to their Twitter on March 5:
Ethiopian 502 is a 787-8 that did this: I'm not a pilot, just a guy that thinks airliners are pretty cool. It seems to me like there was more than a "minor technical problem" to make an aircraft lose 32,000 feet like that. Is there something in the software or hardware that's shared among these planes that's causing problems? |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 4:50:23 PM EDT
[#28]
First British victim of Ethiopian Airlines flight named as UN worker, 36, whose father warned her not to catch doomed flight.
Joanna Toole (pictured) has been named as one of the British victims of the air disaster in Ethiopia British victim Joanna Toole, from Exmouth, Devon, was among at least 12 passengers who were travelling to a UN environment meeting in the Kenyan capital. Paying tribute today, her father Adrian called her a 'very soft and loving person' whose work with the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation was 'not a job but a vocation'. Mr Toole said she had flown around the world but added: 'Personally I never wanted her to be on a single one of those planes. More  
Rescue team collect bodies in bags at the crash site of Ethiopia Airlines near Bishoftu, a town some 60 kilometres southeast of Addis Ababa  
Joanna Toole, pictured, was the first British victim to be named. Paying tribute her father Adrian said she was a 'very soft and loving person' whose work with the United Nations was 'not a job but a vocation'      
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Posted: 3/10/2019 4:53:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That plane dropped almost 30,000 feet...not 10,000. What happened? |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 4:57:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just like Boeings stock tomorrow , invest heavily in Airbus . |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:04:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So there's Lion Air 610, which was a 737 Max 8, Atlas Air was a 767-375ER, Ethiopian 302 was a 737 Max 8, all of those planes were lost. Then Ethiopian Airlines posted to their Twitter on March 5: Ethiopian 502 is a 787-8 that did this: I'm not a pilot, just a guy that thinks airliners are pretty cool. It seems to me like there was more than a "minor technical problem" to make an aircraft lose 32,000 feet like that. Is there something in the software or hardware that's shared among these planes that's causing problems?  Should have grounded them all.
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:05:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So there's Lion Air 610, which was a 737 Max 8, Atlas Air was a 767-375ER, Ethiopian 302 was a 737 Max 8, all of those planes were lost. Then Ethiopian Airlines posted to their Twitter on March 5: Ethiopian 502 is a 787-8 that did this: I'm not a pilot, just a guy that thinks airliners are pretty cool. It seems to me like there was more than a "minor technical problem" to make an aircraft lose 32,000 feet like that. Is there something in the software or hardware that's shared among these planes that's causing problems? |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:07:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Start with the maintenance log
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:08:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Ethiopia, eh...
The cause will probably be traced to a starving person found jammed in a tailplane crank arm or some shit. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:08:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They call this a minor technical problem? Should have grounded them all.https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/5f1842b2-0466-4900-9a70-657e0240f8af.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So there's Lion Air 610, which was a 737 Max 8, Atlas Air was a 767-375ER, Ethiopian 302 was a 737 Max 8, all of those planes were lost. Then Ethiopian Airlines posted to their Twitter on March 5: Ethiopian 502 is a 787-8 that did this: I'm not a pilot, just a guy that thinks airliners are pretty cool. It seems to me like there was more than a "minor technical problem" to make an aircraft lose 32,000 feet like that. Is there something in the software or hardware that's shared among these planes that's causing problems? Should have grounded them all.https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/5f1842b2-0466-4900-9a70-657e0240f8af.png |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:10:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They call this a minor technical problem? Should have grounded them all.https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/5f1842b2-0466-4900-9a70-657e0240f8af.png |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:15:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryWas that the same airframe?
Edit: been answered |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:19:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was that the same airframe? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was that the same airframe? Notice where it says "787".
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:19:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So there's Lion Air 610, which was a 737 Max 8, Atlas Air was a 767-375ER, Ethiopian 302 was a 737 Max 8, all of those planes were lost. Then Ethiopian Airlines posted to their Twitter on March 5: Ethiopian 502 is a 787-8 that did this: I'm not a pilot, just a guy that thinks airliners are pretty cool. It seems to me like there was more than a "minor technical problem" to make an aircraft lose 32,000 feet like that. Is there something in the software or hardware that's shared among these planes that's causing problems? The Atlas 767 is very interesting as the 767 has been in service for a long time, so that problem is less likely to be a design flaw. But considering how new the MAX 8 s are and that there have been 2 similar wrecks in such a short time it suggests a fundamental design flaw along the lines of the early 737s having the rudder hardover issues. In this case I suspect that it’s a systemic flaw exacerbated by insufficient training. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:28:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't want to be too simplistic about it, but "unstable vertical speed after takeoff" sounds a lot like that thing with Lion Air.
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:39:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Somewhere I saw a recreation of a crash. If that was the Lion Air 737 Max and it was based upon FDR data, then there is no way I would take a 737 Max. Something is seriously wrong with that plane in my opinion.
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:40:46 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3 Boeing hull losses in 6 months is very disconcerting. The Atlas 767 is very interesting as the 767 has been in service for a long time, so that problem is less likely to be a design flaw. But considering how new the MAX 8 s are and that there have been 2 similar wrecks in such a short time it suggests a fundamental design flaw along the lines of the early 737s having the rudder hardover issues. In this case I suspect that it’s a systemic flaw exacerbated by insufficient training. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:47:29 PM EDT
[#43]
I used to fly that flight, Nairobi/Addis Ababa, quite a bit back in the mid 2000's. Ethiopian air competes with Safi airways for shitty planes and poor maintenance.
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:49:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was a brand new Boeing 737-8 Max too. Delivered in november. Sounds like there was a distress call before the crash. Article I read mentioned failures in the airspeed indicator avionics and possibly several failures of the same instrument/system multiple times on previous flights. Seems there may have been an identical problem with the other plane they lost late last year. Does anybody know who makes the airspeed indicator units that Boeing uses on their 767's? |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:51:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have a good buddy flying for them and haven't had a check in yet. Damn... |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:56:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not. The explosion does not immediately destroy the aircraft and they have time to realize that the best option is to return to the airport.
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Posted: 3/10/2019 5:59:05 PM EDT
[#47]
From Pprune:
"777 crew behind ET302 at holding point report observing normal takeoff followed shortly by declaration of emergency. They heard ET302 on tower frequency transmitting “Wrong airspeed indications and difficulty controlling aircraft.” Back in my design days there was a running joke: "it doesn't work but we'll fix it in software". Nontechnical (or incompetent-technical*) management used to view software as a panacea, something that could cure hard problems in hardware. They'd introduce all sorts of filtering to remove noise and spurious inputs. Wound up masking problems until they reared their head in the field. Massively expensive to fix and damaging to the company brand (which unfortunately didn't do much as there was only one competitor that had their own issues). May apply to the airplane field, may not. Have seen it first-hand in more than one industry though. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 6:02:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Did Boeing go with FBW with the max?
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Posted: 3/10/2019 6:07:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Article I read mentioned failures in the airspeed indicator avionics and possibly several failures of the same instrument/system multiple times on previous flights. Seems there may have been an identical problem with the other plane they lost late last year. |
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Posted: 3/10/2019 6:14:53 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like Lion Air, plane should have been grounded until the faulty hardware was replaced. Instead they just keep putting them in the air. |
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