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Posted: 12/10/2003 10:19:41 PM EDT
She was doing it for fun, but I think she's getting hooked on the stuff. What can I do for her?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 10:32:23 PM EDT
Naltrexone, and therapy. There's also a detox regimine where they aenesthetize you though the withdrawal process, i've seen ads for it at [url]www.opiates.com[/url]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 10:37:32 PM EDT
Thanks, Raven, I'll have to pitch that program to her. Anyone else?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 10:42:20 PM EDT
if you think she's "getting" sddictd, she probably already is. Heroine is bad, real bad. Hard to kick and harder toi stay clean. From what I have seen the person has a lot to own up to before kicking it is even an option. Tommy Lee and the Crue did it so it is possible.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 10:44:15 PM EDT
Whatever you do, don't get Ozzie's doc. [%|] Seriously, who does she listen to? Respect? Get that person to get her to a good clinic/hospital and make sure she get's clean. CW
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 10:44:39 PM EDT
She's a strong girl. I figure if she realizes what's happening to her, she can kick it.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 10:49:43 PM EDT
Actually heroin has like the lowest relapse rate. If they manage to get clean, addicts tend to stay clean. Alcohol and cigarettes have the highest relapse rates.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 10:51:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 10:52:03 PM EDT by Valkyrie]
Originally Posted By raven: Actually heroin has like the lowest relapse rate. If they manage to get clean, addicts tend to stay clean. Alcohol and cigarettes have the highest relapse rates.
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Tell that to Scott Weiland. Couldn't resist[:D]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:06:55 PM EDT
I do not define strong women as those who try heroin just for fun.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:27:34 PM EDT
If you are really her friend, you'll do whatever it takes to intervene. Talk to her parents, talk to her friends, if you have to, call the police. Just get her to stop.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:31:37 PM EDT
I am a recovering alcoholic and addict. I never used Heroin but I have been to rehab twice and have been clean and sober for 13 years. First things first. She will have to want to quit. I hate to say this but in 98% of the cases people have to hit bottom before they will get help. If she is still in the stage that she is enjoying herself it will be almost impossible to get her to quit. Hopefully she isn't to far into it and that she can relize what is going on. Most of the time by the time it gets to be a problem the addict is not seeing the situation rationally and it's hard to get through. She might tell you she is going to quit and keep going, or hopefully you can get through to her. If she has been on it consistantly for a while you need to get her help to get off of it. Going through withdrawls is suffering of a kind that people can't begin to understand. Once heroin addicts have been on the drug long enough they are doing the drug more often to not get sick from withdrawls as they are to get high. If I were you I would seek profesional help in how to approach her and what steps to take to get her help. This might be the best or even the only chance you may ever have to get her back. I know you don't want to hear that but I have seen it many times, people change so fast and the addiction takes over so thoroughly you won't recognize them. Even if she says she is going to quit, or even if she starts to get help you need to protect your assets and continue to keep out a sharp eye for anything unusual. Relapses are almost for sure especially if somebody doesn't hit bottom and go through the real suffering. They think about the killer high and think that well I didn't really have a problem he was over reacting next thing you know it's a regular thing again. As far as protecting your assets, do your best to make large sums of money and things like cars and the house are not accessable to her. A friend of mines wife was a heroin addict and she went through all of their savings, she ran up all of the credit cards, she took out a loan, she borrowed money on the title of their cars, took out a loan on the house and took so much money out of there business it went under. In well under two years she shot up a business, a house, all savings and they were 60,000 in debt. I'm just trying to give you a heads up because I have been on drugs and seen what they have done to people of all types and I just wanted to give you a heads up. If you would like to ask me about any of it let me know and I will give you the straight dope. No pun intended.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:41:32 PM EDT
Lock up ALL the stuff you dont want to see sold for drugs. Biggame223 Out
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:41:54 PM EDT
We caught one of my friends shooting up in the bathroom................We trashed his stash,broke his needle and literally beat his ass nice and bloody........if your friends can't give you incentive to quit, Than I dunno.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:54:57 PM EDT
She'll need to rid herself of those "friends". Move her out to the boonies for a good period time.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 12:21:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AZ-K9: She'll need to rid herself of those "friends". Move her out to the boonies for a good period time.
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Better words have not been spoken, I have run lots of calls for adicts...It is really sad sometimes. I knew a gal that was just beautiful, she O.D.'d one night what a waste.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:31:53 AM EDT
Where is she getting the money for the drugs? Don't kiss her.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 2:17:23 AM EDT
Once heroin is in someone's life, two thing will have to happen: 1) rehab 2) relocation Both have to be initiated by the 'user'
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 3:40:13 AM EDT
Heroin isnt that bad. As long as she's using clean needles she can live a long life as a heroin addict. You dont see elderly speed freaks cause it kills you. But there are lots of old Heroin Junkies.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 3:50:12 AM EDT
Hi John, Whywork40 has got it right. I'm in recovery from an addiction disorder myself. Been "sober" for nearly five years. I'm afraid there's nothing you can do for your friend except to let her crash and burn. It will be hard to watch. You can pray that her "bottoming out" happens at a level that doesn't kill her. If she manages to pull out at some point be thankful for the miracle.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 4:12:10 AM EDT
Cruel to say, but true: until he or she bottoms out and wants to change (more than anything else in his or her world), there is [b]nothing[/b] you can do for junkies except to get the HELL away from them. Staying around, you will become a victim, if not financially or physically, then emotionally, for something you cannot stop. Get this woman out of your life now- junkies are little better than vampires. 95th (The Voice of Experience) Foot
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 4:43:42 AM EDT
Can't add anything about the addiction that hasn't been added, she is going to have to reach rock bottom if she lives that long before she can kick it. I had two dumbass cousins OD on the crap and expire!!! Scott Weiland had problems try Layne Staley of Alice-n-Chains, actually the list of musicians is mile long!!! He couldn't kick it and gave up, died last spring, Damn waste!!! I always find it odd that people with God given talent, piss it away!!!! Listen to the Alice-n-Chains "Dirt", it is pretty much about Heroin addiction!!! Excellent Rock Album too!!!
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 4:53:48 AM EDT
1.give her a lifetime supply of the shit all at one time. 2.blow her fuckin head off(jus kiddin) 3.find a new girlfriend. in that order.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 5:22:21 AM EDT
Keep this in mind too, drug possession is a felony. Don't put yourself in a situation where you could be charged with possession like riding in her car with drugs, needles etc. present. You're going to have to remove her from the influencing environment and that could pit you against her dealer who is trying to hook up as many people for his own profit which could endanger your life. Like everyone else has said, she will want to help herself before you can help her.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 5:27:27 AM EDT
[size=5]Once a dope fiend, always a dope fiend![/size=5]
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 5:30:43 AM EDT
Kick her ass so badly that she's in the hospital for a month.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 5:37:01 AM EDT
If she has been using needles I would get her tested for AIDS, ASAP!!! Until the person wants to quit, there is not much you can do for them.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 5:58:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 5:59:34 AM EDT
A guy I knew was hooked when he was serving in the Armed Forces. His buddies finally tied his ass to a bed and made him go cold turkey. They also covered for him so that no one would find out. He bitched at them and even hated them for awhile but today he's thankful that they were there and did that for him. Have to go with the others on one thing, she has got to want to change. I've dealt with a few addicts before and two of them only stopped after their suicide attempts failed. One was doing coke and the other liked acid and heroin. She's lucky to have you as a friend, she'll need you in the months to come.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:33:51 AM EDT
John..try this...how much is a dose? say 50 bucks....put that in your pocket and go get her...take her to eat somewhere nice...spend it all and then some.....then walk out with her. Ask her which was better. Being F%$cked up or having the ability to be able to eat and have a good time. Remind her that this may be the last time forever that she is able to have a good meal. Second approach...tell her you want to do her...dirty, doggy, whore style. If she is just going to kill herself you want a piece before she kills herself. (This worked on a suicide attempt) Third...kick her ass....get her arrested, get her to the bottom as fast as you can. And tell her what you are doing. If the only way out is down, then dammit, we will go down.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:31:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CS223: Keep this in mind too, drug possession is a felony.
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They are from California. We dont lock people up for drugs anymore.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:48:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: Heroin isnt that bad. As long as she's using clean needles she can live a long life as a heroin addict. You dont see elderly speed freaks cause it kills you. But there are lots of old Heroin Junkies.
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wow.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:51:01 PM EDT
... I just recently disassociated myself completely with a longtime friend that has no will left to quit heroin. He started using recreationally several years ago. When he'd clean up, he was his witty, intelligent and humorous self. When fucked up he was a babbling zombie idiot, impossible to enjoy his company. He'll swear to quit then a few months later he'll be back in heroin hell. ... Finally a few weeks ago, after nearly 20 years of friendship, I told him not to call me anymore. I know it hurt his feelings badly, but there's nothing I can do. I've tried to get him help with his mother a couple times in the past; it was only a temporary thing for him. ... I've written him off for good. No sense dragging myself through his ups and downs any longer. I'm afraid the next call I get is from his mother, notifying me of his death. ... Damned sad.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:53:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498: She's a strong girl. I figure if she realizes what's happening to her, she can kick it.
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Good luck. I knew a few growing up, never EVER underestimate the effects of withdrawal.My neighbor was housing a foreign-exchange student. After they found out he shot, they removed his supply. He shot himself 3 days later. Heroine and crack have the most painful, agonizing, even torturous withdrawals. Not exactly the same as going cold turkey on cigarrettes. She may be strong, but I have no doubt she will need professional help.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 2:14:55 PM EDT
As a recovering alcholic, I say to let her hit her bottom and hopefully she will realize what she is doing to herself and want to change. You can't help people who don't want to help themselves. Drug addiction is a terrible diease, but there is life after addiciton, you just have to hit bottom, then everything is uphill from there. Take her to a rehab center and let her talk to her fellow heroin junkies, they may help open her eyes.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:03:35 PM EDT
She ain't a strong girl, if she was she wouldn't be screwing around with heroine. Why anyone in their right mind would touch any of that crap is utterly beyond me. If she's not thoroughly hooked you may be able to break her away from it, but if you can't she's going to spiral out of control and she won't break loose until she hits bottom so hard it knocks her fillings loose. That's the route that most heroine users end up taking because the stuff is that bad. Sorry to be so pessimistic here about someone you care about, but thems the facts of life. Were I you, I would seriously reconsider the crowd you are hanging out in.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:07:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: Heroin isnt that bad. As long as she's using clean needles she can live a long life as a heroin addict. You dont see elderly speed freaks cause it kills you. But there are lots of old Heroin Junkies.
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You are absolutely effing demented. Surrendering your life to a chemical is idiotic in the extreme.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:14:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Da_Bunny: If you are really her friend, you'll do whatever it takes to intervene. Talk to her parents, talk to her friends, if you have to, call the police. Just get her to stop.
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Friends DO NOT LET THIER FRIENDS SHOOT HEROIN.Good advice.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:49:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: John..try this...how much is a dose? say 50 bucks....put that in your pocket and go get her...take her to eat somewhere nice...spend it all and then some.....then walk out with her. Ask her which was better. Being F%$cked up or having the ability to be able to eat and have a good time.
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Well the sad truth is that a good conversation over dinner costs a whole lot more than a hit of H. So financially you won't be able to have them relate. Its better to just be honest and say its controlling them. One friend got hospitalized with stab wounds two different times before he learned.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:57:42 PM EDT
There is no "experimentation" or "having fun" with heroin, and she's not "becoming" a junkie. If you do it more than once, you ARE a junkie and you do it to keep from feeling horrible when you start to come down. Go straight to involuntary treatment under confinement. Get here committed for treatment. Here in Florida, it's called being "Baker Acted" and the police can do it. There is no adequate lesser course of action. Nothing you can do is going to help her short of what I've already said. You do heroin ONCE, you're usually a junkie. TWICE, you ALWAYS are. There's nothing good about that crap. Nothing at all. It destroys minds and kills people. That's all. CJ
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 7:09:35 PM EDT
Agree with all those who say she's going to need help to kick it. Find an "open" Narcotics Anonymous meeting and go to it yourself. Talk to some of the oldtimers after the meeting and listen to their suggestions. They've BTDT, and should be more than willing to help you and your friend. Good luck.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 9:32:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 9:35:52 PM EDT by stirlingmod15]
My advice- sans criticism- is as follows. If it's a personal habit seperate from her social life, it's slightly simpler. If she's falling in with the lifestyle, then she needs to get out to have any chance of rehabilitation, assisted or not. Despite what the previous comments seem to indicate (look sideways at the stuff and you're a junkie for life), the variables defining addiction are primarily physiology, dose, purity, method, and frequency. Without more details, it's simply impossible to theorize as to what level of addiction she has reached. That can only be done by someone with letters after their name. Weaning off the higher opiates was once most commonly achieved by administering progressively smaller doses of a lower opiate, or synthetic opoid stimulants such as Methadone. Recently, agents to block all opioid receptors were developed, such as Naltrexone. These do not change the biological desire, they simply block all opiate-type chemicals from interfacing with the brain. Because of this, they must be a part of a larger program of distraction and therapy, sometimes also involving alternate sedative agents to subdue withdrawal symptoms. For some, willpower coupled with an alternate sedative agent, be it prescribed or otherwise, suffices to get over the initial intense sickness and desire period of withdrawal. For some, group therapy is a great help. Whatever happens, if you can get her to attempt to stop, don't leave her alone. And there's my advice.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 9:48:07 PM EDT
Thanks for all the advice. Her father and I have a plan to kidnap her and take her out to their house in Palm Springs. Her grandparents live out there also and I hope the gathering of the people who love her will have an effect. We haven't told the grandparents and her fater hopes this could be used for leverage.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 2:04:29 AM EDT
Icedmanat95, being weak or strong has nothing to do with it. First of all people just don't one day start shooting heroin. It usually starts with pot or drinking and then they try this or that and progress up to the needle. When I started I used pot a little then a little more then I drank a little then a little more then tried coke, just a little then a little more and was having a great time doing it. But a little more after a few years becomes allot more, your job changes your friends change and by the time it gets to be a problem or starts to beat you up and you think this sucks its too late. Your hooked, it is a very slow process that starts out as fun and eventually leads to shit. Many people concidered strong and smart or rich and have it all get sucked into drugs.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:47:41 AM EDT
John, I think the best you can do is offer support, and then pray that they hit rock bottom without dying first. But, be aware that anything that isn't bolted to the floor is fair game to a junkie. My family had to learn this lesson the hard way. I have a nephew who was intelligent, an actor, charming, etc, etc. Now he's a shell of that man. He's been in and out of jails for the last 5 years. He's been shot once that I know of. Basically his life has gone to complete shit because of heroine. I wish you luck. Papakeith
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:01:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 5:03:27 AM EDT by StariVojnik]
An intervention is needed. [img]http://www.the-sopranos.com/album/s4/26.jpg[/img]
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