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Posted: 12/8/2003 8:16:03 PM EDT
I was reading on Drudge that we are giving a nineteen gun salute to this leader. We are telling Taiwan, in no uncertain terms, that they should not do anything to piss off Red china. Like, declare independence. Aren't we committed, by treaty, to defend them when Red china attacks?
I know Red china is willing to let more of their people die than we are and I'm sure we could accomodate them in that desire. So, why don't we? Instead, we kiss their ass and tell a democratic society to not declare their freedom. WTF?
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:17:23 PM EDT
ibtl. [peep] CW
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:19:29 PM EDT
NEVER TRUST THE RED COMMIE BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are our true enemy.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:36:52 PM EDT
Because they make really cheap stuff for Walmart, and we buy the shit like it's going out of style.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:42:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IAU149: Because they make really cheap stuff for Walmart, and we buy the shit like it's going out of style.
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Or, put another way; our hyper-consumerism economy is dependant on their manufacturing.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:49:03 PM EDT
I won't be surprised if the Chinese get pissed... ...we give the Taiwanese President a [i]21[/i] gun salute.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:51:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markl32:
Originally Posted By IAU149: Because they make really cheap stuff for Walmart, and we buy the shit like it's going out of style.
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Or, put another way; our hyper-consumerism economy is dependant on their manufacturing.
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Yup, and every year we become more and more dependant on them and other parts of the world. As long as the Quarterly Report to stockholders is the High Holy Grail of American business, we'll continue to sell our souls in order to gain a few cents a share. In a few years everyone will wake up and wonder why we've become the world's bitch. Yup, we'll have a military... A military who depends on contractors that depend on suppliers IN EVERY NATION ON EARTH BUT THE U.S. Seems I remember Japan was pushed into war because (among other things) America cut off oil and other vital resources. Well, we might have the oil in this case but what happens if other nations decide to cut off critical goods (esp. hi-tech shit) for strategic reasons? This planet is NOT ready to be "one world" despite everyone in power pushing us towards it at warp speed.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:52:39 PM EDT
Whether we like it or not we need China. Without them, we would have to pay MUCH higher prices for products that would be made here rather then there. Americans would rather pay for Chinese made things on the cheap, then pay for a better quality but higher priced made in the USA. Face it, we Americans are ignorant.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:54:40 PM EDT
Well, since this is not locked for dupe thread, how about a 21 gun salute with suppressors? CW
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 9:08:51 PM EDT
Because right now we CANNOT afford to fight in Iraq, Afganhistan, AND the Straits of Formosa (it would be a 100% naval & air action, except for maybe a few SF teams) at the same time... Remember: China has SSNs (Not as much a concern for the USN, but commercial traffic might have a problem for a while), a viable (numerically, though not technologically) airforce, and manufacturing capabilities that can easily outproduce us for volume (but again lacking in technology)... It's not that we couldn't beat them (we would, so long as the USN gets there before they land troops), but it wouldn't be like kicking Saddam around, or 'Taliban whack-a-mole' from 2yrs ago... We'd need to be able to focus ENTIRELY on China...
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 9:23:46 PM EDT
Gee, what did we do up until the early 90's when cheap Chinese goods became all the rage and Wally World became the superstore of superstores? My, how did we survive? [rolleyes] Think greed. [thinking] And if anyone quotes Rand I'll kick their ass. [:P]
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 9:55:16 PM EDT
Because they are hypersensitive to perceived slights and we can buy them off, or at least make watzizname a little more freindly with such gimmicks that we care nothing about and cost us about the same. I heard we gave the Phillipine prez the same treatment, so it is not much of an ass kissing.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 4:29:35 AM EDT
And, because we need them to buy our bonds, financing our deficit. We are putting ourselves deeper and deeper into a hole. Wait until they and the Europeans stop buying our bonds. As far as the comments about our military eventuially being strangled by suppliers outside the US, the posters are correct. When the USS Iowa blew a turret in an explosion incident, the Navy decided to leave it that way. It seems no one in this country could do the work any more. This ship was built in Philadelphia, but I don't know what happened to the Navy Yard. And, the steel companies just got screwed. So, yes, it's true, we can be stopped by a supply boycott.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 4:34:17 AM EDT
[b]Why Are We Kissing Red China's Ass?[/b] 1. Money 2. Cheap labor 3. Money 4. Cheap labor 5. Money [devil] (P. S. Did I mention money and cheap labor?)
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 4:40:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2003 4:40:53 AM EDT by StariVojnik]
It may seem on the surface that we are being polite and neighborly but the reality is that we have been trying to balkanize China and the Chinese Red's know this! We will keep feeding them CocaCola, Pepsi, Marlboro, Britney Spears and Playboy until the Chinese masses have been assimilated. Time will tell.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 4:45:56 AM EDT
I swear to God I think that when some of you Neo-cons see an old soviet Flag it must bring a tear to your eye! I swear without the "RED MENACE" you all are lost. I think some of you wish the Soviets would come back! Gotta have someone to hate right? Those so called "commies" in China have a country that is no more "free" or less free than any other country in that region. But the idea is that if we encourage trade with them freedoms will follow, And this seems to be the case.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 4:56:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StariVojnik: We will keep feeding them...Britney Spears...
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I wish someone would feed me Britney Spears. [coffee]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:54:22 AM EDT
Cannibal! [:D]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 5:08:45 AM EDT
BTW, a little hijack... Sam Walton wanted Wal-Mart to be the place where you could buy American goods at great prices. Now that he's dead, the corporate Wal-Mart has forgotten what their founder wanted, and just goes for that "great prices" part. And we shop there...and we'll shop ourselves out of all our jobs too. As for the One World thing, it's coming, via TRADE and ECONOMICS and not overtly "government." Look at the way we cowered and bowed down to the europeans who insisted we lift our steel tariffs. Consumerism, Free Trade, they're gonna kill us. More acurately, we're gonna kill ourselves be embracing them. Scott
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 5:15:37 AM EDT
As long as we have companies in this country that lay off thousands of workers to save a dollar, we'll be importing more and more Chinese goods. The Chinese are taking advantage of the situation and we'd do the same in their place. The greedy bastards at the top of most corporations see the dollar sign and nothing else. It's a "Get mine while there's still some left" attitude. They are quickly eroding our manufacturing base and our future in the world. I don't know if we'll get away from this trend before it's too late, but I certainly hope so.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 5:28:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 5:29:16 AM EDT by DoubleFeed]
Originally Posted By mattja: Gee, what did we do up until the early 90's when cheap Chinese goods became all the rage and Wally World became the superstore of superstores? My, how did we survive? [rolleyes] Think greed. [thinking] And if anyone quotes Rand I'll kick their ass. [:P]
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At least it will get you out of California! [;D] "Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 5:52:41 AM EDT
[size=4]Ah, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer, grasshopper.[/size=4]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 5:58:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stator: [size=4]Ah, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer, grasshopper.[/size=4]
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I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately, I don't see any method, preparation, or otherwise when it comes to our relationship with China. I wish we would recognoze Taiwan as a free and independant country, and then dare the Chinese to do something about it. Regard any attack against Taiwan as an attack against America. Put the fear of US into THEM for once. Never happen, though. Too much money riding on it... [:(]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 6:06:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 6:12:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB: [b]We will keep feeding them CocaCola, Pepsi, Marlboro, Britney Spears and Playboy until the Chinese masses have been assimilated.[/b] why not? it worked on russia and eastern europe. sony walkmans and levi strauss jeans brought down the commies faster than 10-nuc mervs. good post, t-stox.
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I wish this were true, but China is a whole other ballgame. First of all, their culture is not European in any way, so the doodads that so impressed Russians and Eastern Europeans will likely not be as impressive to the Chinese. Second, Chinese culture is almost devoid of any idea as to what freedom is. They've been ruled by emperors and tyrants for millenia. They don't have the thirst for freedom that oppressed Russians and Eastern Europeans did. Third, the Chinese are more savvy and ruthless than the Russians ever were. A few have kept billions cowed for decades. Finally, what little they DO get is pure riches to them, and they're likely to be content with it, not imagining that even more is possible. I'm not putting down your idea. I certainly hope you're right, but I think China will be a much tougher nut to crack than the Soviet Union ever was.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 6:37:05 AM EDT
The Chinese may be harder to crack but they are still human. With the passage of time and newer generations coming to power you will see a more tolerant China (im hoping in my life time). Like I said earlier, give'em Marlboro's and Britney, the people want it!
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 6:50:30 AM EDT
[b]YES[/b] and unfortunately we've being doing just that for quite sometime now, talk about shortsighted on our part
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 6:52:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB: [b]We will keep feeding them CocaCola, Pepsi, Marlboro, Britney Spears and Playboy until the Chinese masses have been assimilated.[/b] why not? it worked on russia and eastern europe. sony walkmans and levi strauss jeans brought down the commies faster than 10-nuc mervs. good post, t-stox.
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I wish this were true, but China is a whole other ballgame. First of all, their culture is not European in any way, so the doodads that so impressed Russians and Eastern Europeans will likely not be as impressive to the Chinese. Second, Chinese culture is almost devoid of any idea as to what freedom is. They've been ruled by emperors and tyrants for millenia. They don't have the thirst for freedom that oppressed Russians and Eastern Europeans did. Third, the Chinese are more savvy and ruthless than the Russians ever were. A few have kept billions cowed for decades. Finally, what little they DO get is pure riches to them, and they're likely to be content with it, not imagining that even more is possible. I'm not putting down your idea. I certainly hope you're right, but I think China will be a much tougher nut to crack than the Soviet Union ever was.
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We all know about those enlightened democracies that ruled Russia and Eastern Europe for centuries before the Commies took over... [>:/]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 7:06:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By IAU149: Because they make really cheap stuff for Walmart, and we buy the shit like it's going out of style.
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Sad but true. Tj
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 7:26:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 7:36:44 AM EDT by CAMPYBOB]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 8:20:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 8:20:47 AM EDT by StariVojnik]
Good point, from last I heard they are starting to play little league baseball in Russia and China. There was a news report regarding mothers taking their kids to baseball practice and other afterschool activities. Regarding doodads, yes you are correct, but Marlboro, Penthouse and Playboy are extremely desired in China. So if we dont assimilate them with electronics, will get them with niccotine and the latest issue of Bigguns! The Chinese are notoriously horny. [:D] Sometimes I catch some Chinese programming and i've noticed that they copy almost everything we do. The music, music videos, etc. Give them some time, they'll all come out the closet one day.
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