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Posted: 11/24/2003 8:53:18 AM EDT
How much will the prices drop on pre-bans? I know we've discussed this before...but, what will be the difference between a 1992 AR and a 2000? Will it be, say a $100 difference? Or will prebans be lesser in worth than NIB's?

I am really trying re-think some purchases on this future developement. I know it will status quo if they re-new the ban. 1 year away..
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 9:21:57 AM EDT
I would think that the prices will be equal. There really is little difference between a pre and post ban. New guns will have flash suppressors and folding stocks as options. "Pre-Bans" will simply be old used guns. The only real difference will be a threaded barrel.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 9:35:06 AM EDT
Thats what I was thinking...I wanted to hear what our dealers and industry partners take on it was. Seems like pre-bans would just be older guns. If so, then I could concentrate on collapsible stocks and other *new* evil features being offered. Could be fun shopping next year...indeed.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 9:42:09 AM EDT
Ok, How long will it take for Bushmaster and other bigger companies to actually make and sell the new AR's with all the 3 pervious evil features? Do you think they will wait around a while or start the next dat after the ban ends?
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 9:44:48 AM EDT
I can easily see some of the gun show slime still pushing "pre-ban" rifles at insane prices, until enough knowledgeable folks publicly humiliate them at their tables. I hope that won't last too long.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 9:58:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 9:59:05 AM EDT
If the AWB sunsets then there is no such thing as pre-ban. What will happen is that I buy a Colt lower to go with my Colt A1 upper that has a detachable A2 flash suppressor and bayonet lug. Shok
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 10:08:54 AM EDT
[feinstein] thousands of children and baby seals will be murdered each day[/feinstein]
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 10:22:16 AM EDT
[LOLabove]
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 11:07:59 AM EDT
i like the new sig line absolut.... all of my ar rifles will become evil at 12:01
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 11:16:50 AM EDT
When the assault weapons ban sunsets, the new version signed into law by George W. Bush will take effect. Geeez I hope I'm wrong... Scott
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 11:17:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2003 11:22:26 AM EDT by Dave_A]
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Ok, How long will it take for Bushmaster and other bigger companies to actually make and sell the new AR's with all the 3 pervious evil features? Do you think they will wait around a while or start the next dat after the ban ends?
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Immediately.... See all that 'LEO Only' stuff they have??? Well, it's not LEO Only after 9/04... Also, what we currently call 'post-ban' rifles will either disappear entirely or be available at additional cost, since it will actually cost them more to keep making 2 different lines. ArmaLite is allready offering an 'AWB sunset insurance program' where they will 'post-post-banify' your gun if you buy it this year (to keep business from dropping while people wait for the end of the AWB)...
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 5:34:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Ok, How long will it take for Bushmaster and other bigger companies to actually make and sell the new AR's with all the 3 pervious evil features? Do you think they will wait around a while or start the next dat after the ban ends?
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Nearly all manufacturers already make LEO guns. The post ban guns will just not be made anymore or offered as an option (maybe $25 less for no flash supressor).
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 5:45:45 AM EDT
The "Leaders" will IMMEDIATELY replace it with something WORSE! The "Leaders" cannot afford a set-back like losing the POWER to tell you what guns you can have. The "Leaders" like that leverage over you. You think they'll give it up? Oh silly me.......All the LEO's who really ARE on our side and are just waiting to DO THE RIGHT THING when the opportunity presents itself will RISE to proclaim "LEAVE THE PEASANTS ALONE......GIVE THEM BACK THEIR WEAPONS OF CHOICE!". Uh-huh............ [xx(] Sorry Guys...but something else....something WORSE is coming in it's place.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 5:56:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scottman: When the assault weapons ban sunsets, the new version signed into law by George W. Bush will take effect. Geeez I hope I'm wrong... Scott
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Unfortunatley your not.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:05:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TUMOR: The "Leaders" will IMMEDIATELY replace it with something WORSE! The "Leaders" cannot afford a set-back like losing the POWER to tell you what guns you can have. The "Leaders" like that leverage over you. You think they'll give it up? Oh silly me.......All the LEO's who really ARE on our side and are just waiting to DO THE RIGHT THING when the opportunity presents itself will RISE to proclaim "LEAVE THE PEASANTS ALONE......GIVE THEM BACK THEIR WEAPONS OF CHOICE!". Uh-huh............ [xx(] Sorry Guys...but something else....something WORSE is coming in it's place.
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Agreed. Buy all you can now, before you are no longer allowed to. Next, they are gonna start banning ammition, I think, since it is them darn bullets that actually kill (somebody please tell me I am joking!)
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:13:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2003 8:15:07 AM EDT by TheCommissioner]
When the AWB sunsets, I don't see the major manufacturers like Colt or Bushmaster pushing a model with all the evil features. Image-wise, they have a lot to lose if they abandon the post-ban models. They won't gain any new business with post-post-ban models because the market isn't growing and sales will only cannibalize existing post-ban sales. The potential increase in profit from a flash suppressor markup won't outweigh the potential for even more negative media scrutiny if the manufacturers are characterized as 'regressive' and 'insensitive to prevailing public opinion'. Never underestimate the willingness of a corporate CEO to avoid unwanted, negative publicity.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:16:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:25:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By Q3131A: I would think that the prices will be equal. There really is little difference between a pre and post ban. New guns will have flash suppressors and folding stocks as options. "Pre-Bans" will simply be old used guns. The only real difference will be a threaded barrel.
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Not really. THe originals - marked "AR-15" will still retain their collectors status and I don't even see preban "Sporters" dropping much if at all. The ONLY thing that will really change is you can buy a NEW preban config rifle for a lot less than a preban.
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Yep!!! [^] Some of this stuff, like the old colts, are NEVER gonna be made again... I may even pick up an old colt if I find one reasonable.....[:\] Hell, maybe even someday, the colt would actually be worth something!! [devil] [snoopy]!!! [:K]
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:40:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By Q3131A: I would think that the prices will be equal. There really is little difference between a pre and post ban. New guns will have flash suppressors and folding stocks as options. "Pre-Bans" will simply be old used guns. The only real difference will be a threaded barrel.
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Not really. THe originals - marked "AR-15" will still retain their collectors status and I don't even see preban "Sporters" dropping much if at all. The ONLY thing that will really change is you can buy a NEW preban config rifle for a lot less than a preban.
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Some rare collector models will maintain their value. But your average pre-ban will fall in price to less than a new rifle. The manufacturers will have models with flash supressors and folding stocks (and probably bao lugs) for sale as part of the normal inventory.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 9:07:37 AM EDT
If(when)a new ban is introduced, it must first pass the House, then the Senate, and the final step is the signature of the President... yes? I really can't see how the new Bill will make it past a Republican dominated House and Senate. Am I dreaming to be so optimistic?
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 9:21:15 AM EDT
Election isn't over, yet.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 9:24:11 AM EDT
As the magic date approaches, the liberal bedwetters will, with their willing allies in the media, scream ever louder in a vain attempt to hurt Dubya in an election year (Hell..why NOT nothing else works! [;D]) and to force an already committed congress and president to somehow change their minds and reconstitute the AWB and force it upon an unwilling public. From a technical, manufacturing and marketing standpoint, the gun and goodies manufacturers will have already geared up (They likely are now.) to begin making that which is currently illegal. Were I the CEO of one of the affected companies, I would be watching and listening carefully, and preparing my work force and my production lines to be ready to begin cranking out the good stuff at 0001 on the magic night. I believe the advertising will be very low-key...since we all know anyway and the media will be doing their job for them. Then...I believe that like all other products sold in America, sales of formerly "pre-ban" type weapons and accoutrements will simply be market driven. For example, the price of a now-pricey pre-ban M4gery should drop like a stone. As an example of how mags might be affected, "real" M1A mags should suddenly become very plentiful, making the total package more attractive. Once the restrictions on them are off, quality manufacturers will begin to crank them out in heavy volume until the demand is met. Here again, the most basic law of supply and demand will drive the price down to the cellar. The real loosers will be the cheesy imports...and they will have to come up in quality or be shut out by market pressures. Now finally...I hear you naysayers...you nattering nabobs of negativity crying in your beers about how Bush and the other pols are going to somehow screw us again at the last minute. Forget it! I checked again with my congresswoman and Ms. Davis remains convinced that NO AWB of ANY SORT will ever make it out of congress to the president for his signature. NONE!!! You guyz need to get a grip and remember how the system for enacting laws works: There simply is no majority in congress now that favors ANY sort of gun control law! THAT is what we got when we voted in the Republicans...remember them...the party of freedom? Consider this too: No Republican leader in congress wants to send this tar-baby down to the White House. It spells suicide for any politician now. A quick review of the effect that we, the so-called "gun lobby" had on the last few election cycles has finally convinced Republicans and Democrats alike that they better take us seriously. Now...that isn't going to sway some of the libs but it works for most of them: Want to keep your cool DC job? Don't vote against guns! As long as the congress is controlled by the Republican Party, NO ANTI-GUN BILL IS GOING TO PRESIDENT BUSH...NOT ONE! Guyz...I can assure you that no amount of whining on the part of the antis is EVER going to get an anti-gun bill on this president's desk. Having said that...just remember this...IF Hillary (or any other liberal Democrat) wins in '08...ALL bets are off! Unless we still control congress, I would expect to see another AWB quickly signed into law. Remember, the AWB was a stupid, Clinton-era, feel-good law specifically crafted to appease a small but vocal group of liberals. During the last ten years, enough empirical data have been gathered to COMPLETELY debunk the basic model that caused the libs to enact the damn thing in the first place! Having it in place has done NOTHING to reduce crime, the illegal use of firearms, death by firearms whether intentioned or not, or the illegal sales, transfer, or use of firearms in ANY way whatsoever. So...in short, the AWB has been a total fucking bust! Since it has no merit, it is doomed to the ash heap of shitty laws. Now...y'all can sit back and pooh-pooh me if'n ya want...but I for one am planning on fulfilling some of my needs as soon as the bill sunsets and the market shelves fill up. Have a good one! LWilde
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 9:27:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach1: If(when)a new ban is introduced, it must first pass the House, then the Senate, and the final step is the signature of the President... yes? I really can't see how the new Bill will make it past a Republican dominated House and Senate. Am I dreaming to be so optimistic?
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Well...I can't see how socialized medicine would pass...uh...well...there's that prescription thing today...ok... I don't see the Republicans limiting free speech...uh...oh...campaign finance reform.. Um...Machine gun ban? Republicans... I'm not holding my breath for them to do what is right. Scott
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 9:30:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach1: I really can't see how the new Bill will make it past a Republican dominated House and Senate. Am I dreaming to be so optimistic?
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no, i believe the same
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 9:48:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
Originally Posted By Mach1: I really can't see how the new Bill will make it past a Republican dominated House and Senate. Am I dreaming to be so optimistic?
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no, i believe the same
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Stay optimistic... Look, if the AWB has [b]any[/b] chance of re-newal, the Republicans would [b]HAVE[/b] to lead it. That will not happen...you will have a powerless Pelosi, Feinstein, Schumer frothing at the mouth to renew it. They have no President to back them, they have no majority to pull it, they have no agenda to make it important for the American people. This is [b]not[/b] on most Americans minds as important. The economy, medicare, war and education are far more important for their re-elections and stump speeches. They cannot make this bill re-ignite without a national groundswell. Such as, a rash of "assault" weapons used in terrorizing cities and such. They do not have the "will" of the people on this issue. We do. We have hundreds of thousands of pro 2nd ammends now...we did not have the organization or numbers in 1994...they had a President and narrow majority to push this through. President will not even have to look at the renewal bill...this will die within the week it pops up. All we need is a few staunch republicans in the House & Senate to turn it odwn..i.e. Frist and Hastert. Keep the faith...there are more for us than against and the pro AWB's do not have the ground sweel we have..they know it too. That is why they are fighting amongst each other for even a inch of support. We have a plethora of support for our cause...even in the Dem camp. We will win! AWB goes down!! Trust me...
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 9:55:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach1: If(when)a new ban is introduced, it must first pass the House, then the Senate, and the final step is the signature of the President... yes? I really can't see how the new Bill will make it past a Republican dominated House and Senate.
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It's very easy.......the Senate Majority Leader (remember Bob Dole?) brings it to the floor late at night (remember Bob Dole?) where's voted on and passes (remember Bob Dole?). That's the way the current AWB was passed. (remember Bob Dole?) There's your "Conservative" Republican leadership.....you remember them.....the ones who you trust to look out for your Constitutional Rights......... They'll do it again if you let them.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 10:16:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2003 10:18:02 AM EDT by LWilde]
Originally Posted By TUMOR:
Originally Posted By Mach1: If(when)a new ban is introduced, it must first pass the House, then the Senate, and the final step is the signature of the President... yes? I really can't see how the new Bill will make it past a Republican dominated House and Senate.
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It's very easy.......the Senate Majority Leader (remember Bob Dole?) brings it to the floor late at night (remember Bob Dole?) where's voted on and passes (remember Bob Dole?). That's the way the current AWB was passed. (remember Bob Dole?) There's your "Conservative" Republican leadership.....you remember them.....the ones who you trust to look out for your Constitutional Rights......... They'll do it again if you let them.
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Well...just a bit of a problem with your assertion that somehow Bob Dole is responsible for the AWB. He wasn't majority leader in the senate in 1994. In fact, the Republicans didn't win control of the senate until the 1996 election. Recommend you study your congressional history a bit before trying to blame an innocent man. As to whether or not a new bill gets passed? First it must pass out of committees in both the senate and house. If there are any differences, then it must go to a conference committee, then to the floor of the senate for a final vote. After approval by the senate, it must then be signed by the president. This congressional leadership is not going to let any of the above happen. No anti-gun legislation introduced by the liberals on the other side of the aisle will make it out of committee...none. No leader of the ways and means committee is about to put any anti-gun legislation on the docket. No pol in either house is going to risk his/her job in an election year by voting for an anti-gun law...and NO Republican congressional leader is going to send such a piece of crap over to the White House. Again...IF this were a Democratically controlled congress, we would be seeing the AWB renewal act of 2004 in the summer of next year, timed perfectly to hurt Dubya. Again, you must also remember that during the summer of 1994, the Democrats were STILL in power in the senate, house and in the White House. Anyone remember what happened just two short months later...hmmm? Well, let's just say that was the LAST time the Democrats held sway in congress...and it was a short but painful six years before we regained the White House so don't blame Dole. We hold the aces now...and the antis are sucking hind teat right now...so they LOSE. If y'all really want to see the bill redone in '05, then vote the Democrats back into power. Should they regain the power, I can assure you that it will be.
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