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Posted: 11/23/2003 1:46:40 PM EDT
I need to know who to write a bitch letter to...

So, friend is intel, heading to Tikrit to hang out in a TOC trailer (yeah, yeah, not a combat guy, etc- whatever). Anywho, being the civilian gear queer that I am, I ask her what she's getting issued. So thru some conversation I discovered that at best they'll be getting flak jackets and at worse, nothing. So I let out a big WTF!? and I ask her to talk to the highest ranking people she can find. I also ask her to talk to any supply or acquisition people she can. She further confirms that they're not slated to get anything.

I managed to find her a medium interceptor vest and some level IV stand alone trauma plates to slide in it.

Now, I'm a jackass college kid with a shitty job. But the job works with my schedule and the pay could be much worse. So I go and drop about $900 on the best gear that I know of. Now I would do it again even if it cost 5 times as much. A friends life cannot have a price. I will happily go into debt to help someone in that capacity.

So my question here is: Who should I write a letter to about why the hell people arent getting what they need? Senators, congresscritters, governor?

Perhaps this post is in vain, but I thought Id try to get some ideas on who I can bitch at for this outrage.

Thanks

topcrest@hayesresearch.com
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 1:58:32 PM EDT
You're a good man TopCrest


prayers for the safe return of your friend.



dave
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:04:09 PM EDT
your friend will be getting Interceptor body armor. Everyone over here does. Even the people in the water purification units get the IBA. Everyone in theater gets one. If she doesn't have one yet it's because your friends unit did not do the proper request or it just hasn't been issued yet. Tell your friend to keep the armor you bought in plastic so you can return it when she gets her IBA. Don't worry about it.


Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:05:23 PM EDT
your friend will be getting Interceptor body armor. Everyone over here does. Even the people in the water purification units get the IBA. Everyone in theater gets one. If she doesn't have one yet it's because your friends unit did not do the proper request or it just hasn't been issued yet. Tell your friend to keep the armor you bought in plastic so you can return it when she gets her IBA. Don't worry about it.


Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:15:09 PM EDT
She is female, she may not be spending all her time in a TOC trailer.

Female GIs are in big demand. We are required to use women to search women passing through guard posts, stopped by street patrols, and to search womens living quarters in raids on residences.

Only 17% of the US Army are female and of course none of them are in the infantry and armor battalions that are doing the patrolling. And there are not enough female MPs to spread around. That means a lot of the water, fuel, and mechanic types are getting a eye opener.

Her life could get very interesting over there, but if she does get called to do that, than she WILL be given a IBA just like the infantry and MPs she would be accompanying.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:28:46 PM EDT
Sounds to me like your friend is lucky to know you, TC.

the way some gubmint stuff is run, you don't know what she will or will not be issued over there. Tell her to take the vest and plates and send them back if she is issued a vest.

Good going, TC!
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:31:06 PM EDT
But aren't the normally issued GI plates Level III, not Level IV like he bought?

If she gets a vest, send the one he bought back yes, but I think she will need to keep the plates.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:07:31 PM EDT
Your lady friend is damn fortunate to have a friend like you. $900 is serious bucks, but that hell hole of a place is not the French Riveria. While you're at it, you may want to scrounge around for some Beretta 92 magazines, I've heard that many of military's mag are worn out, mag springs are weak, don't for sure, but why take a chance.

YOU'RE A GOOD MAN CHARLIE BROWN!
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:12:13 PM EDT
I am surprised he got off paying only 900 bucks.

I had heard that Point Blank vests with plates were hard to come by for the last year or so- and that the going rate was usually around $1200 for a complete vest and plates.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:17:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 3:19:22 PM EDT by AZ-K9]
A friend of mine there is wearing his level IIa police vest under his interceptor.

Nice #1000, Top.

I'd start by writing the Gov, and go up from there. Concentrate on Sen. McCain and Kyl.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:26:12 PM EDT
Check this out. Prior to Desert Storm my unit spent a lot of time sitting around doing nothing. One day we shot a GI Flack jacket with the M9 and of course the 124Gn NATO ball ammo went right through. Things were made even worse in that we used out Flaks as PT mats on ship. Sweat, salt, heat, all degrade most body armor. So some of us spent our own money to buy conventional police type body armor to wear, concealed, under our uniforms. then we wore the GI stuff as required by unit policy. When out Battalion commander found out he ordered us not to wear it. He said that NCO's wearing commercial body armor would cause the younger Marines to loose faith in their equipment. That any benifit in our increased protection was more than ofset by the decreased confience of the non-rates. He did have a somewaht valid point about the importance of a warriors faith in his equipment, but any faith in the GI flak jacket was destroyed long before we started buying our own. I ended up using my commercial soft body armor as a seat cushion in my Humvee, figured it might save my balls if we hit a mine, and kept me from getting NJP.

Before spending money on commercial equipment for friends or family in the military, check and see if they will even be alowed to use it.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:28:52 PM EDT

I think I speak for everyone here at AR15.com when I say that we are going to need a picture of your friend carrying an M-16, preferrably in some sort of poolside situation, before we can give you the best advice for this particular matter.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:31:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Check this out. Prior to Desert Storm my unit spent a lot of time sitting around doing nothing. One day we shot a GI Flack jacket with the M9 and of course the 124Gn NATO ball ammo went right through. Things were made even worse in that we used out Flaks as PT mats on ship. Sweat, salt, heat, all degrade most body armor. So some of us spent our own money to buy conventional police type body armor to wear, concealed, under our uniforms. then we wore the GI stuff as required by unit policy. When out Battalion commander found out he ordered us not to wear it. He said that NCO's wearing commercial body armor would cause the younger Marines to loose faith in their equipment. That any benifit in our increased protection was more than ofset by the decreased confience of the non-rates. He did have a somewaht valid point about the importance of a warriors faith in his equipment, but any faith in the GI flak jacket was destroyed long before we started buying our own. I ended up using my commercial soft body armor as a seat cushion in my Humvee, figured it might save my balls if we hit a mine, and kept me from getting NJP.

Before spending money on commercial equipment for friends or family in the military, check and see if they will even be alowed to use it.



You guys back in 91' actually thought that PASGT vests were bullet proof? They were never rated for stopping even hangun ammo.

And if he buys a real Point Blank Interceptor it IS GI issue, it has a NSN.

Kevlar doesn't degrade in heat and sweat. IBAs have no Spectra or Zylon in them so that is not a issue.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:34:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
You guys back in 91' actually thought that PASGT vests were bullet proof? They were never rated for stopping even hangun ammo.



Yet new ones often will stop handgun bullets. When you have ton a few million squat thrusts on one as a PT mat on the fan tail of an LSD, it wont anymore.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:56:01 PM EDT
The plates are level 4. We already had a few guys take a round to the chest from an AK and it stopped the round cold. All the vests are issued with plates. By the time your friend gets her the supply of IBA's should be up to snuff. We started the war out with the normal flak vest...didn't get the IBA until a few months into the dance. Alas, 5 more months to go.


Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:06:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leo6223:
The plates are level 4. We already had a few guys take a round to the chest from an AK and it stopped the round cold. All the vests are issued with plates. By the time your friend gets her the supply of IBA's should be up to snuff. We started the war out with the normal flak vest...didn't get the IBA until a few months into the dance. Alas, 5 more months to go.



Level III plates will stop 7.62x39, 5.54x39, and M855. Level IV are for stopping armor piercing rifle bullets. The old .30/06 M2 AP cartridge from WWII is still used as the standard. They will stop point blank hits from AP rounds from a PKM or PKT GPMG.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:19:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Kevlar doesn't degrade in heat and sweat.


It may not degrade in heat, but prolonged exposure to UV WILL damage the fibers...so if they are over there in the sandbox and not maintaining the equipment properly over time, it could be compromised.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:39:16 PM EDT
Which one of these did you buy Top Crest?
www.pointblankarmor.com/plates_military.asp

I think the CPC is what the Military buys, at least the weight and performance specs for it match.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:42:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Kevlar doesn't degrade in heat and sweat.


It may not degrade in heat, but prolonged exposure to UV WILL damage the fibers...so if they are over there in the sandbox and not maintaining the equipment properly over time, it could be compromised.



I would of thought that the cammo nylon fabric in the outer shell would keep the UV from reaching the ballistic panels?
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:45:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Kevlar doesn't degrade in heat and sweat.


It may not degrade in heat, but prolonged exposure to UV WILL damage the fibers...so if they are over there in the sandbox and not maintaining the equipment properly over time, it could be compromised.



I would of thought that the cammo nylon fabric in the outer shell would keep the UV from reaching the ballistic panels?



Hehe... you were never in a Marine infantry unit. Ever seen Flak jacket that you could wring the sweat out of...or shake a pound of sand out of...or that was held togather with duct tape?
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:57:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leo6223:
your friend will be getting Interceptor body armor. Everyone over here does. Even the people in the water purification units get the IBA. Everyone in theater gets one. If she doesn't have one yet it's because your friends unit did not do the proper request or it just hasn't been issued yet. Tell your friend to keep the armor you bought in plastic so you can return it when she gets her IBA. Don't worry about it.




Maybe where you were at. When we were mobing up, only dismounts were to get interceptor (I was in a 12B unit) Officers, staff NCOs and vehicle operators were SOL. This is a HUGE deal with congress right now who gave orders to CoS army to get Interceptors for all soldiers and top of the line SAM protection for all choppers. CoS Army told congress that all troops in Iraq will get interceptor no earlier than summer 04.
Maybe with 3ID pulling out, they left their Interceptors and they are issuing them out to new guys. I don't think there are enough for everybody. Female MI probably EOC unit may very well not get Interceptor.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:12:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:35:25 PM EDT
Where are the usual idiots posting aspersions on her morals?

Hmm, kinda different when you know the folks isn't it?

My son is getting hints he may be going over next year. He works on F-16s so who knows where that may mean.

Send her our best.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:53:56 PM EDT
CONTRACTS AWARDED 9/23/03
Armorworks Inc.*, Tempe, Ariz., is being awarded a $29,790,185 firm-fixed-price with indefinite-quantity/indefinite-delivery type contract with a 1-year base period and three term option years for small arms protective inserts. The performance completion date is expected to be Sept. 25, 2004. Contract funds will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. There were an unknown number of bids solicited via the World Wide Web, and nine responded. The Defense Supply Center Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pa., is the contracting activity (SP0100-03-D-4153).

Ceredyne Inc.*, Costa Mesa, Calif., is being awarded a $28,744,108 firm-fixed-price, indefinite-quantity indefinite-delivery type contract with a 1-year base period and three term option years for small arms protective inserts. The performance completion date is expected to be Sept. 25, 2004. Contract funds will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. There were an unknown number of bids solicited via the World Wide Web, and nine responded. The Defense Supply Center Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pa., is the contracting activity (SP0100-03-D-4151).

Simula Aerospace & Defense Group Inc., Phoenix, Ariz., is being awarded a $27,468,210 firm-fixed-price with indefinite-quantity/indefinite-delivery type contract with a 1-year base period and three term option years for small arms protective inserts. Performance completion date is expected to be Sept. 25, 2004. Contract funds will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. There were an unknown number of bids solicited via the World Wide Web, and nine responded. The Defense Supply Center Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pa., is the contracting activity (SP0100-03-D-4152).


Inserts are being built as fast as suppliers can get materials delivered, thousands a week going out the door.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 11:47:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TREETOP: She's very fortunate to have you as a friend, I know that was a [i]HUGE[/i] sacrifice for you. [b][size=4]TopCrest, Post your PayPal account- I'd like to donate something towards this to help offset your cost a little.[/size=4][/b]
View Quote
Thank you for the most generous offer, treetop. But Im not expecting you or anyone else to help out with this purchase.
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 7:17:57 AM EDT
I'm still seeing soldiers in Irag wearing the PASGT vest on the news.
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