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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - For Urban SHTF is a AK47 with a drum as good as it gets? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 11/19/2003 1:04:40 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
You got a rifle that is super reliable, it holds 75rds is accurate enough at short range. And it shoots a round that will penetrate cars, walls glass pretty well.

its also short enough to clear rooms.

I think thats as good as it gets for the urban SHTF riot type situation.

take a good look at the Hollywood shootout.
are you going to be better?

Posted: 11/19/2003 1:38:29 PM EDT

[#2]

I only wish they made 75rd or 100rd drums for AK74's in 5.45x39...I'd stock up on a slew of those. Between the muzzle brake, it's accuracy (which is pretty darn good for an AK, a lot better than I expected), and the ability (at least on my SAR-2) to mount a red-dot...then my SAR-2 with it's new FSB and brake would be my main SHTF rifle, until I run out of ammo for it (which would eventually happen).

But by that point, I'll either be dead, or driving around in my own commandeered APC, and have a lot more armaments than what I started out with, so...

But, in the mean time, it's a toss up between my AUG and my old Norinco underfolder, which has 3 drums waiting for it.

My M4 or 20" SP1 would go first, if I happened to grab one of them by mistake/instead/it was closest to me at the time. After all, I wouldn't be *searching* for it; I'd grab what was there with it's ammo and preloaded mags, and go

Posted: 11/19/2003 1:39:02 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
You got a rifle that is super reliable, it holds 75rds is accurate enough at short range. And it shoots a round that will penetrate cars, walls glass pretty well.

its also short enough to clear rooms.

I think thats as good as it gets for the urban SHTF riot type situation.

take a good look at the Hollywood shootout.
are you going to be better?

I am not going to rob any banks or be shot at by a 100 cops, I was just saying lets say you were in some urban shithole and things went to hell. I think a AK would be the best thing to get your ass out.

those guys in LA were crazed psychos trying to get killed.

Posted: 11/19/2003 2:05:02 PM EDT

[#4]

SHTF, hits the city with no warning. People take to the streets in droves. Our hero grabs his AK/AR, throws on his Bob, and out the door he goes. He gets strange looks from the other refugees but they keep their distance. A small young man around 14 or 15 years of age smiles as he approaches our hero. Then quickly pulls out his .25 automatic Saturday night special and caps our heros ass. Then takes his AK.

Answer: Urban Combat maybe, SHTF, not necessarily.

Tj

Posted: 11/19/2003 2:49:41 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You got a rifle that is super reliable, it holds 75rds is accurate enough at short range. And it shoots a round that will penetrate cars, walls glass pretty well.

its also short enough to clear rooms.

I think thats as good as it gets for the urban SHTF riot type situation.

take a good look at the Hollywood shootout.
are you going to be better?

I am not going to rob any banks or be shot at by a 100 cops, I was just saying lets say you were in some urban shithole and things went to hell. I think a AK would be the best thing to get your ass out.

those guys in LA were crazed psychos trying to get killed.

I think if the SHTF I would try if at all possible to get me and my family to a safe location, and If you got into the said shootout You could be easly overruned outgunned, even with an Ak with a drum or a beltfed weapon. take a look at that blackhawk down incedent ranger's and delta came against that heavy of resistence. that was an urban setting with civil unrest. same difference.

Posted: 11/20/2003 11:28:11 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

I did a similar experiment.

But in over 20 years of regular (means I clean them on occassion) shooting my preban Colts have NEVER had a single issue.

And what kind of AR15 do you have? If your like many AK owners who cobbled one together from parts of 4 differnent manufacturers I'm gonna believe that is your issue.

And it's not just that AKs get hot, they get HOTTER than any other gun.

Put 100 rounds through both and you can still hold and shoot the AR. I factor in "can reasonably hold in your hands" into overall reliability.

I have actually seen AK top handguards ignite on a handful of occassions. I've never seen another gun actually catch on fire

AKs are a cheap reasonably practical gun and that is why I own several. But they are not this mythic ubber gun that some owners make them out to be. They have more than a few drawbacks.

I think I'd take my AR everytime, especially in urban AO. For dense jungle sure a AK becomes way more practical.

I've got a Bushmaster AR-15 and a Romanian AK. I bought both as complete guns because at the time I had no idea about assembling them.

I agree that the AK is a far from ideal weapon, I certainly do not consider it as versatile as an AR, as someone else on this thread said it is the equivalent to a SMG, same accuracy and range, but much more reliable. I would not rely on it in open country, but in close quarters, in a situation like the one we are discussing, I would prefer it to an AR because it can take so much more than the AR can an still work.

As a Law Enforcement Weapon, the AR wins, as a Home defense weapon, the AR wins, as a mission specific weapon where there is a definite "down time" and a safe area the AR wins. But when I have no idea when I'm going to be able to stop, where I'm headed or what's in my way (in a close quarters setting) I'll shoulder the AK and sling the AR.

Posted: 11/20/2003 12:09:21 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
SHTF, hits the city with no warning. People take to the streets in droves. Our hero grabs his AK/AR, throws on his Bob, and out the door he goes. He gets strange looks from the other refugees but they keep their distance. A small young man around 14 or 15 years of age smiles as he approaches our hero. Then quickly pulls out his .25 automatic Saturday night special and caps our heros ass. Then takes his AK.

Answer: Urban Combat maybe, SHTF, not necessarily.

Tj

DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!!! Urban Combat, I certainly wouldn't turn down an AK! In SHTF, I think I'll still just keep my AR receivers separated, and stuffed inside my BOB, keep my CCW Gun parked IWB with shirt tucked over it, and go on my way... If things get bad, the handgun & mace will likely handle it until I can get out the AR, and by that time, things will likely have gotten REALLY BAD.

Posted: 11/20/2003 12:57:14 PM EDT

[#8]

SAR-1
Drum Mag
Kobra red dot

I still keep just the G-19 or 26 bedside with Mossberg handy.

Posted: 11/20/2003 1:51:52 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
SHTF, hits the city with no warning. People take to the streets in droves. Our hero grabs his AK/AR, throws on his Bob, and out the door he goes. He gets strange looks from the other refugees but they keep their distance. A small young man around 14 or 15 years of age smiles as he approaches our hero. Then quickly pulls out his .25 automatic Saturday night special and caps our heros ass. Then takes his AK.
Tj

from shooting a raven .25 the kid is going to have to be about 5 feet away and is going to have to make a headshot on the first try because from what I have seen with a raven you don't get a second. and If things are that bad I will have some sort of armor on.

Posted: 11/20/2003 2:04:18 PM EDT

[#10]

Ultimate SHTF rifle is the sig 551-LB. It's short like the 551 but has a barrel long enough for a bayonet. Hopefully when the ban is gone SIG will begin producing them again here in the US. That's what I heard anyhow. And if they do start making them again, All I can say is, GOODBYE TO AR15.

The sig 550 series takes the reliability of the AKs and the accuracy of the FAL and slaps em together to make a SUPERB battle rifle. Prolly the most accurate from what I've heard. Anyways I've got my money set down to buy one as soon as they come out.

Posted: 11/20/2003 2:15:41 PM EDT

[#11]

"Ultimate SHTF rifle is the sig 551-LB. It's short like the 551 but has a barrel long enough for a bayonet. Hopefully when the ban is gone SIG will begin producing them again here in the US. That's what I heard anyhow. And if they do start making them again, All I can say is, GOODBYE TO AR15.AKs and the accuracy of the FAL and slaps em together to make a SUPERB battle rifle. Prolly the most accurate from what I've heard. Anyways I've got my money set down to buy one as soon

The sig 550 series takes the reliability of the as they come out."

Yeah, what he said. I had the opportunity to buy one of these in 1990. Man did I screw up.

Posted: 11/21/2003 6:06:38 AM EDT

[#12]

what? Nobody said M1 Garand ?

Posted: 11/21/2003 7:53:21 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
AK is the best gun for what it was developed for. The AR15 is the best gun it was developed for.

AK was developed by a Russian. Russia has always had a large amount of conscripts. Conscripts generally do not care for the cause, are not trained well, and don't take care of their weapons very well.

AR15 was developed by an American. Americans have very high volunteer numbers. America at the time was a nation of riflemen. They clean their weapons.

I did not intend the original post to be as bad as it turned out. I forgot the smileys!

How far out do you have to be for the .223 round to drop below 3k fps (the effective transfluidic shock speed) with a 16 inch barrel?

How far out can you hit a man sized target with an ak47?

My SAR1 shoots .75 moa and I can reliably shoot mini propane tanks (slightly larger than a can of spray paint) with one shot at 100 yards on iron sights.

I could easy hit a mansized target with the irons at 200-300 yards under durress, probably 100 yards farther with no worries.

I'd say the main shortcoming of the ak series is the safety. They are hard to work quickly. But if the SHTF I'm leaving it off.

Posted: 11/21/2003 1:57:30 PM EDT

[#14]

I would take my M-14 in a heartbeat!

Posted: 11/21/2003 2:11:32 PM EDT

[#15]

.22 and a .38.

Posted: 11/21/2003 2:19:49 PM EDT

[#16]

I wouldn't feel too bad if all I had was my Saiga pistol grip, high cap mag conversion in .223, Maybe not my first choice but far from my last choice.
The CQB ability of the AK with the M193 round would be quite comfortable in a "Git the fu** out of dodge" scenario.

Posted: 11/21/2003 2:32:53 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I have a drum and it makes way too much noise and is too hard to reload.

the back pops open and you literally drop in the rounds, how is that hard to reload?

Posted: 11/21/2003 7:36:38 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a drum and it makes way too much noise and is too hard to reload.

the back pops open and you literally drop in the rounds, how is that hard to reload?

Only on the Chinese version. The Euro types currently around have to be loaded from the top, make the piece as awkward as hell, and the rounds inside clank like hell. If you insist on carrying a Rambo type ammo load, two 40 rounders taped end to end wil give you a nuch handier carry piece, and 9 more rounds

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - For Urban SHTF is a AK47 with a drum as good as it gets? (Page 2 of 2)

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