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Posted: 11/17/2003 10:48:04 AM EDT
I caught this move with John Cusack, this weekend called The Jack Bull. A bit boring at first, but it got me into it. The ending was like Somersby so I am kind of torn on the movie.
Anyway in the movie they charge this guy with armed insurrection, but as far as I can tell, in other countries it deals with trying to over throw the government. All this guy was doing was chasing down someone with an armed group. Is this something they made up, or was it really something they could throw at you?
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:00:01 AM EDT
I think a better question is whether a movement to restore our government to that defined by the Constitution could be called an insurrection. After all, it would not be intended to overthrow the government, just to restore the sovereignty of the citizens.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:00:24 AM EDT
Laws vary from state to state. PA has a law on the books prohibiting paramilitary training for the purpose of overthrowing or otherwise disrupting the existing state government. The Feds have the Sedition Act. Train as you will, just dont plan on overthrowing the .gov. Ops
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:20:08 AM EDT
Yes. You have to get a permit (about $35.00) and list the date, place, and time of the insurrection, along with the number of expected participants and an estimate of the number of "irregular" participants. Go down to your local FBI office and tell them you're there about a planned armed insurrection.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:32:36 AM EDT

The Feds have the Sedition Act.


IIRC there is no longer a Sedition Act at the federal level. Here is all that I could find with a quick search:

www.lyceum.org/events/HD2003/2100/1918.htm

It says that the 1918 Sedition Act was repealed.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:51:01 AM EDT
it is illegal, and the penalty is a torched house
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:57:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
it is illegal, and the penalty is a torched house



As has been demonstrated with impunity.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 4:30:06 PM EDT
Would insurrection be considered the same as treason? If so, the death penalty applies.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 4:38:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Would insurrection be considered the same as treason? If so, the death penalty applies.



Yes.

So long as 2 or more witnesses attest to the same act....

It's the only crime SPECIFICALLY defined in the constitution...
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:05:08 AM EDT
So why don't we just walk into the senate or house, ask if anyone was there to whitness the passing of the AWB, then put them all to death for violation of the 2nd amendment? That would constitute treason right?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:32:28 AM EDT
Smith Act of 1940. It is illegal to call for the violent overthrow of the United States government. A communist from Carrboro, NC was charged with making such statements. It went all the way to the supreme court. Court ruled in his favor. Congress passed the Smith Act, named after him, the next year. It is still on the books, and is why the internal enemies of our government use codewords for the government like ZOG, or Crypto Fascist Conspiracy, when calling for violent overthrow. They skirt around the law.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:37:29 AM EDT
Let me get this straight: You asked "Is there actually a law against armed insurrection"?

I think my IQ went down 10 points just reading the title.

IBTfriggingL
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 9:10:04 AM EDT
Not if you win.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 9:16:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 9:18:00 AM EDT by tcsd1236]

Originally Posted By Andrewh:
. All this guy was doing was chasing down someone with an armed group. Is this something they made up, or was it really something they could throw at you?



Here in NYS, you could be charged with a number of things, depending on the circumstances: disorderly conduct(simple violation),Rioting(either misdemeanor or felony level),unlawful assembly (misdemeanor),or(less likely) Criminal Anarchy(felony)
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 9:24:26 AM EDT
This all took place in the Wyoming territory (town of Rawlins) during the same year Wyoming became a state.

The fella ended up getting hung for a crime he didn't commit.

Link Posted: 11/18/2003 9:59:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:
Not if you win.



That is funny!

TRG
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 10:03:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:
Not if you win.



That is funny!

TRG



Sometimes the funniest things are also the truest.

The Constitution even has a 'right to rebellion' written into it. It is called the Preamble.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 10:38:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:
Not if you win.



That is funny!

TRG



Sometimes the funniest things are also the truest.

The Constitution even has a 'right to rebellion' written into it. It is called the Preamble.



So wouldn't laws preventing/punshing this action be a form of tyrrany?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 10:51:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 10:53:35 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
Everyone here seems to assume that these imaginary "insurgents" are RKBA defending, Constitution-lovers.

What if these arned insurgents are Maxist/Islamic terrorists, who wish to overthrow our goverment, and install a tyranical form of Islamic Law, ala Taliban?

Armed insurrection is a fools game, given how the deck is stacked. Only fanatics would try.
It would be suicide.
Hmmm.... Suicidal fanatics?
Sounds familiar.

Link Posted: 11/18/2003 10:55:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BBQMAN:

So wouldn't laws preventing/punshing this action be a form of tyrrany?



Then the government would be helpless against armed insurrection.
If such a thing were legal, the police, military would have no reason to halt it.
Anyone who desired to overthrow the government would just have to get in line.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 11:00:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Everyone here seems to assume that these imaginary "insurgents" are RKBA defending, Constitution-lovers.

What if these arned insurgents are Maxist/Islamic terrorists, who wish to overthrow our goverment, and install a tyranical form of Islamic Law, ala Taliban?

Armed insurrection is a fools game, given how the deck is stacked. Only fanatics would try.
It would be suicide.
Hmmm.... Suicidal fanatics?
Sounds familiar.




If they win, they win.

It is 'our' (freedom loving peoples) job to ensure that that does not happen.

But what is worse? A tyrrany installed by insurrection, or a tyrrany installed piecemeal by dibs and dabs?

Why do you seem to assume that 'Constitution Lovers' are not fanatics? Maybe that is what is REALLY wrong nowadays, maybe we have lost our fanaticsm. And if so that is our end.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 1:09:09 PM EDT
No, I don't assume that at all.

Any US Citizens who take up arms in a true attempt at insurrection against THIS CURRENT government, MUST be a fanatic.
It would be suicidal.
To do so wouldn't be logical.
Their beliefs (be they Islam, or the Constitution) have obviously overwhelmed their sense of reason.

"Outlawing" insurrection is like outlawing suicide.
It doesn't matter to those who get it done.
And those who attempt it and fail, have other problems to worry about.

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