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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:12:38 AM EDT
[#1]
That is pretty much exactly how I feel about all this. I'm sure everyone would like everone who has ever taken or stolen anything to fess up, it would then be a wonderful world for the lawyers. DTV has the burdon of proof indeed and KNOWING they cannot prove anything they contnue to bring up thousands of lawsuits every week, that is WRONG! |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:13:33 AM EDT
[#2]
JUST TELL THEM THE THING NEVER WORKED AND YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE RIPPED OFF. YOU THREW THE THING IN THE GARBAGE AND NEVER USED IT.
End of story. DENY EVERYTHING, ADMIT NOTHING!!! |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:14:56 AM EDT
[#3]
Let's answer your question.
And why are you having trouble sleeping? It looks like you realize that you stole their product without paying for it. How do you get rid of this guilty conscience? Pay your debt.
This is not a "bad luck" issue. You stole. That's not bad luck, it's theft. "Thou shall not steal."
Ah-haa! So, you are willing to "take responsibility"? Good for you. That's the right thing to do. Determine what you owe them and pay them. Go and sin no more. Glad I could help. No charge. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:15:08 AM EDT
[#4]
Don't leave things of value where someone can pick them up for free. As a company, Direct TV should write off the small percentage of people they fail to lock out of their system. If I leave my money out on the street corner each night I have no one to blame but myself when it is gone in the morning. Planerench out. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:16:02 AM EDT
[#5]
I'm of two minds about the ethics here. On the one hand, using a descrambler does give access to a product for which others pay. On the other hand, WTF gives the corporation in question the right to bombard my house with radio waves and insist that I leave them scrambled? It's sort of like saying they have the right to stack old newspapers in my garage - whether I want them or not - but I don't have the right to read them.
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:20:01 AM EDT
[#6]
That's correct Aimless, but do you think DTV wants to hear your (our) excuses? They do not. If you are lucky enough, you too will get a letter soon. THEN you have the choice of 2 things....Keep in mind 'YOU DID NOTHING WRONG' Your choices are 1. spend big $$ to settle 2. spend big $$ to defend yourself. DTV is not losing the counter suits for court costs since they have significant evidence to try you. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:20:05 AM EDT
[#7]
I can't believe how many people are defending theft here. I bet dolomite and gilfrd would absolutly FLIP SHIT if somebody stole from them! They are trying to rightfully get money from me because I stole services from them, FUCK THEM, they won't get a dime! Give me a break, some of you guys are such hypocrites. Grow the fuck up and accept that you were wrong, and take the punishment. We both know that you used it. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:26:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Is there a statute of limitations on buying one of these smart card programmers? How far back can they go to say you're a crook?
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:27:53 AM EDT
[#9]
So, if you have a nice broadband connection at home that you are paying $25-$50 a month, and you use a wireless router/switch to share the connection with your other PC's at home, it's o.k. for your neighbor to break through your encryption and use your home connection? Apologies for the run-on sentence. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:27:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Only fools watch commerical television. The signal quality of MPEG compressed signals suck when compared to proper analog ones. $65? |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:30:39 AM EDT
[#11]
This is so funny. A lot of people on this thread think that it is the right of the Hollywood entertainment community to sic their attack dogs on you just because DTV found your name and address on some old list.
They’re trying to bilk you out of $3500 by sending you a threatening letter – and all of a sudden all of these sanctimonious old women come out of the wood work clucking of their idea of morals! “Do the right thing… ba-KAW!!! Don King needs to feed his children… ba-KAW!!!” Man, oh man… I’ll take “Famous South American Kool-Aid Drinkers” for $500 please, Alex. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:30:59 AM EDT
[#12]
How was this thing paid for???
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:31:57 AM EDT
[#13]
How do you know Mr. Iknoweverything?
You must work for the .gov Why do you mo-fo's assume I am guilty of signal theft??? You too OP! Sin no more my ass. Prove I stole something.. go ahead, prove it!! What you think and what is reality certainly can be different things but since you go to church daily you are innocent...right? BS. I think you are guilty of making a device similar to mine with parts from Radio Shack so you are guilty of signal theft too!! Old Painless is a thief!! Spread the word!! Now go to church for a 4th time today and pray for forgiveness while DTV nails your ass to a cross. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:32:14 AM EDT
[#14]
"I bought a similar device, but my conscience(sp) got the better of me and I sold it before I ever hooked it up."
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:35:36 AM EDT
[#15]
I'd read that contract that you signed with DirecTV as there may be clauses in there that you signed giving away some of your rights in order to obtain service. You'd be surprised to find what's in some of the contracts and license agreements that we are required to sign.
I love the way people rationalize their thefts - really eye opening and rather sad. They lack the morals and conscience that use to be common but then I can still remember when you could leave your car or home unlocked and not worried about someone coming in and stealing from you. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:36:49 AM EDT
[#16]
I think you lost the distinction between a physical and (for our purposes) a logical entity. Signals and the IP's they carry are really logical entities, and therefore can't be equated with storing newspapers - taking up space at a cost to you. If there was some physical effect of these waves occupying "your" space, then the analogy would apply. But if I had to constantly endure the sound of sitcoms through my dental fillings, I'd be mighty pissed.  |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:40:10 AM EDT
[#17]
Glad you are a mind reader, I left my crystal ball at home. I pay taxes, I am "stolen from" every fvcking day but I manage not to FLIP SHIT about it. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:42:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Why do you mo-fo's assume I am guilty of signal theft???quote]
What other purpose would such a device have? Unlike a sub-machine that might be used for a hobby purpose the possession of a device to break encryption can be used for no other purpose than to break encryption. If you're leasing the decoder box it's rather simple to pull the history out of it. These "mother fuckers" are going to form a jury of your peers if you're ever brought to trial.  Ya' take your chances ... |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:42:42 AM EDT
[#19]
What contract Paul? I didn't sign no steenkin contract. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:47:33 AM EDT
[#20]
The proof is in the evidence.
Fact: You bought a unit that can descrable the signal = Intent Fact: You stated you feel guilt Fact: You are defensive when asked if you stole the services. All these signs point to guilt. Now really, ask yourself this. If you didn't steal the signal why are you so worried? If you DID steal the signal what is the best way to make this right? I never admited that I never stole in my lifetime, because I have. But I have always paid for it in one way or another. I am not perfect nor sin free. But when I get busted I own up to my wrong doing. So I ask you again. DID YOU STEAL THE SIGNAL?? If you did be a man and pay for your mistakes and people will think better of you. Or you can deny you stole it, when everyone else will believe you did, and be frowned upon. Only you know the truth about this...and the turth will set you free. But first you must be honest with yourself. SGtar15 |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:47:50 AM EDT
[#21]
We don't have shit to prove. Paul is right, it is really sickening how people rationalize things. I deserve this, they are overcharging for it, so I'll take it, screw them. Go steal a Colt!! Ba-DUM bum Ok, ok just kidding. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:48:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Dang Paul, I already posted what other purposes they are used for, check it out. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:52:18 AM EDT
[#23]
Dern, old buddy. Looks like I kind of hit a nerve.  You asked a question. I gave an opinion. You don't like my advice? Then ignore it. No reason to get all personal and insulting. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:52:30 AM EDT
[#24]
No one here is saying they know everything - the only person that knows IF you are a thief is YOU. Whether or not you REALLY are a thief is not a matter of "evidence" or "burden of proof" - it is a reality. You either stole from this company, or you did not. Only you know which one it is. If you DID NOT, then you should be incredibly agressive towards them , and they may well back off. As you say, they have no actual proof, and you would definitely need to speak to a lawyer. If you DID, then I've got as little sympathy as Old Painless, and to me, it's just a matter of taking your medicine, and "being responsible for your actions" as you yourself stated. Sure, we all engage in weasly behavior sometimes, speeding, downloading MP3s, etc - the difference is how honest we are when we get called on it. Do we turn into whiny bitches who are full of excuses and looking for loopholes to eel out of, of do we stand up and say "I was wrong" and make resitution? Btw - this is more of a general RANT - not directed specifically at you, but something that bothers me a lot when I see it. I hate it when people are not willing to be accountable for their actions. I'm NOT AT ALL saying that you're a "whiny bitch" - I have no idea which one you are (I only know that you have lots of bad luck ). If you NEVER used this product, I'd IMMEDIATELY send an indignant letter back to the company (although I might talk to a lawyer first, so as to be very careful about what I say in the letter). I'd make it very clear that you never used the thing (perhaps it was a gift, or you jsut couldn't figure it out, or whatever) and that you will retain a lawyer and fight this in court as long as it takes for them to admit that they falsely accused you of a crime (and that your lawyer will make them pay court costs). |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:53:22 AM EDT
[#25]
“Render therefore unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s…”
     You guys can go on and continue to suck Rosie’s cock for the rest of your “moral” lives. If you’re happy doing that – and it doesn’t interfere with anybody else’s pursuit of happiness – ‘good for you’, I say. However, I’ve got a soul - and I sleep pretty damn good at night thank you very much. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:56:21 AM EDT
[#26]
The device can be used for other purposes which are legal. A spokesman from Hughes (parent company of DTV) said why don't people buy the device from Radio Shack then. While we all know that most people that bought these devices from websites were using them for illegal means it cannot be proven and innocent people could be prosecuted unjustly. DTV is gambling that most people will settle because they do not want to incur lawyer fees which may possibly end up costing more than the settlement.
A website that might help you in your defense directvdefense.org/ BTW, my personal feelings are that using the unlooper to get DTV is indeed stealing making DTV's lawsuit just in your case. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:57:47 AM EDT
[#27]
Whether or not I did something illegal is not the point here. I understand where you are coming from SGtar15 but my point remains the same. Why do they sue me without proof I did anything wrong? |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 7:58:38 AM EDT
[#28]
I guess I'm not done ranting ...
Dolomite, I never directly called you a thief, only those who steal from others. Feeling guity? Also, you quote from Atlas Shrugged regarding government creating criminals (which it certainly does) while we're talking about property theft. That's irony. Poor Ayn is rolling over now. I also suggested that if the device was not used to illegally/immorally obtain the property of others, the purchaser should fight like hell. I don't remember reading a response. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:05:39 AM EDT
[#29]
I got one question. Did the letter come certified? If not, throw it in the trash and forget about it.
My ex is a para that works for an attorney that does civil law. You would be amazed what people willingly give up when they request it. Good luck. I personally would tell them to go and have sex with themselves. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:06:09 AM EDT
[#30]
Incase the mail didn't go thru gilfrd.www.freedomfight.ca/forum/
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:07:23 AM EDT
[#31]
I think some folks are missing an important point: This is NOT a criminal action, but a civil action. The burdern of proof in a civil action is quite a bit lower. DTV only needs a preponderence of evidence, not proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Your posession of the device gives them a decent prima facie case to at least file charges.
Talk to a lawyer, but whatever you do, do NOT lie to them or to the courts. Tell the truth (Whatever it may be, and I am NOT making a judgement on what you did). There is no reason to commit perjury. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:07:45 AM EDT
[#32]
So...
Do you have a dish on your roof (or wherever)? Have the neighbors/friends/maintenance/relatives been in your home? But please... do tell us what you REALLY used this for. Was it a smart card reader/programmer... or just a standalone descrambler device? I can think of plenty of uses for a smart card reader/programmer... but if you answered yes to having a dish (and you don't subscribe to a service), I think you'd better watch your back. Or maybe start bribing your neighbors into saying you never had one up. (sarcasm, I don't think you should further try to cover up crimes) If you REALLY are innocent, pull your cable or satellite bills for the past x years (however long ago you bought this device) and ask them why you'd steal AND pay for service. If you dont have bills (I assume you don't), you'll have to find someone who can vouch for you not having a dish. And probably find some people to vouch for you using an antenna to watch TV when they were over at your place. Oh, and BTW... it't NOT "innocent until proven guilty". Get it straight. It's "presumed innocent until proven guilty". And that is in a court of law... Nothing to do with whether you are actually innocent or not. If you did actually steal the signal, YOU ARE NOT INNOCENT. You ARE guilty. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:09:17 AM EDT
[#33]
If I got personal and insulting, I apologize OP, I was just trying to make a point. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:11:38 AM EDT
[#34]
If somebody beams a signal to my house, and I have the technology to receive it, THAT is not stealing.
I paid for the equipment that I used, or it would be stealing. I'm not even tapping into their line like those getting cable. Since when do satellite companies own the sky? They don't want me to receive it? Stop sending it to my house. That simple. And what if I didn't want it sent to my house? What if I was one of those people who thought those signals posed a health risk, are they gonna shut them off or protect me from them somehow? NO. So I didn't ask for them, I may even strongly object to them. But the minute I don't pay for them I'm stealing? Kiss my ass. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:17:48 AM EDT
[#35]
Not going to read the whole thread, so sorry if this has already been said, but ...
If they're beaming a signal onto my property without my permission, I'm doing whatever I want with it. If they want me to stop, they can stop sending the signal onto my property or use better encryption. As for it being theft ... The provider would have to lose something for it to be theft. You'll say they're losing the income they'd get if I paid for the service ... Well, if I couldn't buy a box and descramble the signal, I wouldn't get it, so there is no "potential" income. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:18:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Federal Communications Act says otherwise. Sec. 605. - Unauthorized publication or use of communications Plus Sec. 1201. - Circumvention of copyright protection systems and various "super-DMCA" Signal Theft Laws that states might have. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:21:37 AM EDT
[#37]
Oh gee… Thanks! You have no idea how much better I feel that you’ve only unjustly labeled me a thief indirectly ! What a relief – and here I thought you were just a pious prick. Whew! I have never smuggled anything in my life. Why, then, do I feel an uneasy sense of guilt on approaching a customs barrier? -John Steinbeck
And I say he shouldn't have to in the first place. Every man is born with the equipment to be a potential rapist, eh Comrade? |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:26:18 AM EDT
[#38]
Pretty much, I have to agree with planewrench, it is public airwaves. Cable on the other hand is controlled access, it is only carried on company owned medium. That said, I still pay for Dish Network, but I am getting sick of all the commercials, on even the pay channels. I don't buy their service to see commercials. So we will see just how long I continue to buy the service. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:29:34 AM EDT
[#39]
I would claim to buying it but selling it as it wasn't what you wanted. Then tell them to go away.
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:31:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Let me start by saying I am no boy scout, nor do I profess to be. But two things going on here stun me. First is the notion that these signals "fall" on your property, so you can just have them. It's an attempt to rationalize away what's going on. The explosive, insulting righteous indignation in response to this thought is proof that not even you who spout this are comfortable. THey are "falling" because private industry put sattelites, et al, an entire system, in place so they could provide a wanted service for money. Sweat, capital, and brain power-not YOURS, somebody elses's, set this up and set up the scramble so they could sell access to the signal and control it's use for profit. They are most certainly not giving it away, it is being stolen if you do not pay for the service. You are stealing someone else's property, whether it can be proven or not. If I could gaurantee that you could steal from your favorite gun store and not get caught, is it OK to steal? And the second thing that bugs me is the "FVCK THEM" school of those who brazenly, without any explanation, condone or participate in theft, whitout even bothering to rationalize. I mean, we're not talking about bread for your kids here, we're talking TV. No one has even claimed they can't afford it, just that it's too expensive. I was raised to not buy things that are too expensive, not steal them. If the past is any gauge, many will pounce on me and call me self-righteous, which is probably a first, but YOU started this with a thread saying you bought something touted as a way to steal DTV, no matter what else it can be used for, You said you can't sleep. If you want to claim you have no guilt and are only worried about the legal bills, fine. I don't need to prove anything about you using the box to steal, it's not my battle. But you asked how we felt, take your medicine. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:34:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Two words to DTV:
PROVE IT. To elaborate: PROVE I stole your service. If you can't (and you know you can't), then SHUT THE FUCK UP OR PREPARE TO BE SUED BY ME. Disposing of any evidence is probably not a bad idea, not that you HAVE any. CJ |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:36:13 AM EDT
[#42]
Gee you mean the federal government and a bunch of lawyers and I all see things differently? What a shock. Imagine my surprise at not giving a fuck. I never said it was legal to do so, I just stated why I don't consider it theft. Anyway when the water company builds it's treatment center upstream of your town and begins to assess each person with a tap in the drink maybe you will start to understand what I'm talking about. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:41:30 AM EDT
[#43]
As I read these responses, I'm surprised that so many people are giving me tacit permission to listen in on their cel phone calls. Airwaves are airwaves, and public is public, no?
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:45:43 AM EDT
[#44]
You are right, public is public. But that's not even the issue here. The issue is about equipment and yes you can legally own the equipment that will listen to cell phones. Plus all the new equipment still allows you to listen to cordless phones. However using that equipment to do more than just listen is illegal. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:48:47 AM EDT
[#45]
If you stole DTV service, pay the man. If you stole DTV service, you are a theif plain and simple. Everybody deserves a second chance, so play by the rules from now on.
If you did not steal DTV service, get a lawyer and defend yourself vigorously. Go down fighting. If you stole DTV service and plan to lie about it in order to avoid paying the man, then you are a liar and a thief. Probably will cost you twice as much in the end. Look deep within yourself and decide who you are. Internet friends can not decide that for you. Good Luck. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:54:08 AM EDT
[#46]
You people are missing the point. These items are "Smart Card Programmers" Smart cards are used EVERYDAY and have legitimate use. Just because you own one does not mean you are stealing TV.
I wonder if the hotels with smart door locks are being sued? |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:55:15 AM EDT
[#47]
I had no idea there was so much interest in this, I didn't mean to step on any toes with this thread and I do appreciate everyones comments, I was basically trying to see both sides to this situation.
The good news is that not a single case (from what I read) has been brought to trial, everyone has either settled at court or the judge has dismissed the cases. I'm thinking whether or not they planned on this they are going to get a black eye by being the big corporate meanie for bringing so many lawsuits. I had already made my decision on what I am going to do about this before I posted and I haven't changed my mind. We are a gun community that believes in our individual rights and we do not want the govt or lawmakers bothering us needlessly about the legality of our firearms over and over again. I see similarities in this with what I am dealing with, that was mostly my argument. Thanks for the comments, keep them coming. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:57:41 AM EDT
[#48]
You're kidding right? Have you seen the napster/kazaa/RIAA threads? Puts a tarnish on the character of the board as a whole.  Scott |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 9:02:35 AM EDT
[#49]
So, let's see if I have this right. The neighbor to the north of me charges the neighbor to the south of me $1 a night to shine a spotlight through my yard into south neighbor's yard so he can sit out there & read all night. If I buy a lawn chair and position it so that I can read at night by the light coming through my yard, I'm stealing from north neighbor?
I'm none to sure about that. |
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Posted: 11/17/2003 9:02:43 AM EDT
[#50]
It does NOTHING of the sort. It PROGRAMS SMART CARDS!! You can use that VERY same card that DTV sent you to make a Electronic door lock for your front door at your house. |
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