As everybody knows, a suicide bomber two days ago, Nov. 11th (strange... Sept. 11, Nov. 11...) killed 18 Italian soldiers in Nassiriyah.
They were not "occupying", not making war, but they were protecting Iraqi people from terror attacks, rebuilding Iraqi police on democracy standars, giving medical care to Iraqi people and restoring infrastucture for the Iraqi city.
Neverthless, they were cowardly attacked.
While CNN or Foxnews gave an immediate report on their website (I was at work when happened...) I was thinking that even a bigger report should be given on the Israeli media, since the nature of the attack and the common enemy that is killing American, Italian and Israeli people.
I was badly wrong.
The first report was made three hours after the attack.
On Maariv and Yedioth Ahronot the articles were so small that when my father in law called us from Israel didn't know what I was talking about. Also my wife was astonished that nobody was talking about it in Israel...
Really, folks, this time I am really pissed off...
Israel has enough to worry about!
Remember, Most of us here in the US didn't even know there were Italians in Iraq at all. Most people know the British and Australians are there with us. I'm a pretty well-informed person, and I knew Poles, Bulgarians, Czechs, Spaniards and ALBANIANS were supporting us, I heard nothing about Italy's contribution.
Berlusconi seemed to have cooled off his support of the US once we started moving towards Iraq. It's too bad we only found out about Italy's support AFTER 30 Carabinieri died in a bombing.
It's too bad we have to learn about Italy's help this way.
Until news of the "bombing"was on TV I had no idea that the Italian government had anybody in Iraq.
Do the Israelis have news crew in Iraq?
Of course no...
I wonder if the Italians will fight as bravely and valiently as they did in WWII.....sorry could'nt help myself. +
Sorry my @ss...
The parachute division "Folgore" in North Africa, during the offensive of El Alamein, held their position facing British tanks with no antitank guns, but only using rifle and molotov cocktail. Of 14.000 paratroopers, only a little bit more than 500 survived...
Learn history, use your brain, make a culture...
Israel only cares about itself. They don't give a damn about anything that happens outside their borders that doesn't threaten their national security.
Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked??
Which is, of course, why there was a national day of mourning in Israel after 9/11---so they could show how little they cared about another country's tragedy.
(I wonder, are some people born fools, or do they have to work to achieve that status?)
Hey Liberty, which Jews are you talking about?
East Coast Jews?
West Coast Jews?
Dark Haired Jews?
Red Head Jews?
Jews like Jesus?
Have you ever met a Jew? Did one steal a girlfriend? Did one have a bigger package than you? Did a Jewish girl break your heart? Did you get fired by a Jew? Did a Jew get promoted over you? Did your momma cheat on your daddy with a Jew? Did a Jew run over your dog?
Or are you just a fucking moron?
... PaoloAR15, I was extremely pissed and saddened when I first heard the bad news last week. I'm sorry for you and your Countrymen. Those men died at the hand of Godless terrorists. I hope we flush them out and levy due justice on them very soon.
... I'm proud that our countries are allies and I sure hope to visit Italy again soon some time.
Gee Larry, perhaps you could explain to this "moron", just exactly what any of the above groups ar doing to help Italy, OR the war on terror??
OUTSIDE the State of Israel that is!!
The EU let the Italians enter Iraq!??! J/K
If true they would then have to work out permission to use the footage/coverage from another reporter then set up communications links with him both back channel (telephone) and the more difficult video one. Often remotes will encrypt (scramble) their signals to prohibit other news agencies from borrowing their feeds. Setting up the encyption permission for the Isreali newcaster would also take additional time.
OK, here you go
In Americs: Jews in the Army, Jews in the Navy, Jews in the Marines, Jews in the Air Force, Jews that work for the Pentagon, Jews that work for the CIA, Jews that work for FBI, Jews that work for DIA, Jews that work in defense, among a bunch of others.
In the UK, Jews in the Army, Jews in the Royal Marines, Jews in the RAF,Jews in MI6.
By the way, there is a substantial Jewish population in Italy. Some maybe in the Army, I don't know. The reason you are a moron is that you made a blanket statement about Jews, not Israel. Obviously, you don't differentiate. Unlike others on this board, not supporting Israel and being an Anti-Semite are the same thing. Others do there best to argue the difference, You just tossed that out the window in your case.
I could go on but if I need to you really are more of a moron than I thougt.
Well gee Larry, talk about morons....
What did Paolo say??
Now Larry, just to make sure you are aware of it, Israel is a jewish State.
Paolo is talking about Israel.
I said, "Why would the jews care"?? Is it NOT obvious, which jews we are talking about?? Hmmmmm?
The THREAD is about ISRAEL!!
Sounds like you've been talking to IDFM-203..
A bit sensitive are we Larry???
And YOU talk about MORONS!!!
Weak! Again, as stated above, you did not say Israelis, you said Jews. Pretty broad brush. I called you out because you showed your true colors. Your argument above is lame. You asked me a question, I answered it and your response is to compare me to an unarticulate Israeli. I'm not comparing you to anyone. You dug the hole and obviously you have decided to stay there.
In a thread about Israel?? They're the only ones allowed to be citizens!!
Really larry?? I asked you what the GROUPS you named, did, to help out.
You cited Individual actions...
The thread TITLE is Israel. Paolo mentioned ONLY Israel. Israel is populated by jews.
That's what the THREAD is ABOUT larry...
YOU introduced non Israeli jews, not I...
(you certainly THINK like IDF!! !!)
If we were talking about Russia, and I said the same thing, would you jump on me about European or American Russians???
Or are YOU, just another garden variety hippocrite larry???
Hmmmm, now that I think about it, that'd make me, an anti-russemite!!! !!
Really?? Unlike others on this board, not supporting Israel and being an Anti-Semite are the same thing. So, you're a liar as well larry?
You can TRY and "hang a jacket" on me larry, but don't expect me to wear it if it don't fit...
You come to me lookin' for a fight, you'll get it..
Paolo, I'm sorry, please forgive me, for forgetting...
My condolences, to you and your countrymen, on your loss....
Israel cares deeply for the United States.
There's simply no other country willing to send billions of taxpayer money to Israel so that Israel can continue to kill Palestinians and insure that the US never has a coherent policy in the middle east. No other country is willing to blindly support Israel.
(yer gonna catch hell, sub... )
Paolo, I also express my condolences. This thread was about Israel. Liberty86 brought up "Jews".
Liberty86, if you had used Israel instead of "Jews" I wouldn't have bitch slapped you. But you continue try to justify your statement about Jews and say you meant Israel. By the way, all Israelis aren't Jews. Some are Muslim, some are Christian some aren't any religeon at all. You put yourself in that jacket, maybe you don't like the fit. You can try to justify your statement all you want. Everyone can read your first post. You didn't mention Israel. Paolo didn't mention Jews. You did. I called you on it and your only excuse is to use the formula that since Israel is a Jewish state, and you think they don't care about anybody, therefore you believe Jews don't careabout anyone other than themselves. You didn't say Israeli Jews, or some Jews, but the all inclusive term of "Jews". You can flame all you want but you started this. And you still haven't said a word to say anything different.
See, Sub is only refering to Israel. It's his opinion and although I disagree, he is sure as hell entitled as a taxpayer to object to where his tax dollars go. I would defend his right to his opinion with my life. Notice liberty86, nowhere does Sub use the broad brush to include all Jews like you did.
What's the thread title?? Israeli media?? Who runs it? jews
How many?? Here's their regulations..
Acquisition of Israeli Nationality
Israel's Nationality Law relates to persons born in Israel or resident therein, as well as to those wishing to settle in the country, regardless of race, religion, creed, sex or political belief. Citizenship may be acquired by:
The Law of Return
Acquisition of nationality by birth is granted to:
Persons who were born in Israel to a mother or a father who are Israeli citizens.
Persons born outside Israel, if their father or mother holds Israeli citizenship, acquired either by birth in Israel, according to the Law of Return, by residence, or by naturalization.
Persons born after the death of one of their parents, if the late parent was an Israeli citizen by virtue of the conditions enumerated in 1. and 2. above at the time of death.
Persons born in Israel, who have never had any nationality and subject to limitations specified in the law, if they:
apply for it in the period between their 18th and 25th birthday and
have been residents of Israel for five consecutive years, immediately preceding the day of the filing of their application.
Acquisition of Nationality according to the Law of Return
On the establishment of the State, its founders proclaimed "...the renewal of the Jewish State in the Land of Israel, which would open wide the gates of the homeland to every Jew..." In pursuance of this tenet, the State of Israel has absorbed survivors of the Holocaust, refugees from the countries in which they had resided, as well as many thousands of Jews who came to settle in Israel of their own volition.
The Law of Return (1950) grants every Jew, wherever he may be, the right to come to Israel as an oleh (a Jew immigrating to Israel) and become an Israeli citizen.
For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.
Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country or of receipt of an oleh's certificate, whichever is later. A person may declare, within three months, that he/she does not wish to become a citizen.
An oleh's certificate may be denied to persons who:
engage in activity directed against the Jewish people;
may endanger public health or the security of the state;
have a criminal past, likely to endanger public welfare.
Since 1970, the right to immigrate under this law has been extended to include the child and the grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of the grandchild of a Jew. The purpose of this amendment is to ensure the unity of families, where intermarriage had occurred; it does not apply to persons who had been Jews and had voluntarily changed their religion.
Acquisition of Nationality by Residence
Special provision is made in the Nationality Law for former citizens of British Mandatory Palestine. Those who remained in Israel from the establishment of the State in 1948 until the enactment of the Nationality Law of 1952, became Israeli citizens by residence or by return.
According to an amendment (1980), further possibilities to acquire citizenship by residence, were included in the law.
Acquisition of Nationality by Naturalization
Adults may acquire Israeli citizenship by naturalization at the discretion of the Minister of the Interior and subject to a number of requirements, such as:
they must have resided in Israel for three years out of the five years preceding the day of submission of the application.
they are entitled to reside in Israel permanently and have settled or intend to settle in Israel;
they have renounced their prior nationality, or have proved that they will cease to be foreign nationals upon becoming Israeli citizens.
The Minister of the Interior may exempt an applicant from some of these requirements.
The only way an arab, or Christian becomes a citizen, is by "permission", and Renouncing any other citizenship. Non-jews born in Israel, are NOT automatically citizens, they must be "approved"....
No you expletive deleted , it's just the thread title, and subject of the first post... What's the matter, why don't you quote me?? Ya don't wanna respond to my "Russia" analogy?
What's an excuse about that?? Israel/jews= synonym..
And how many international organizations has Israel established, to help others?? When is the last time you saw IDF deployed in a foreign Nation dieing for someone else's freedom??? What GOOD has Israel given to the world?? (Besides Jesus Christ!! )
I didn't hafta say WHICH jews!! The TOPIC is Israel, Blockhead!!
If the topic was russia, and I said russians would you go off?? Of course not, yer a damn hippocrite!
(Are you sure, you're not IDF with a different account, and spell checker?? )
You can bait me about Israel, but I'm not biting. Frankly I could care less abaout what delusions you have about Israel. Again, and for the last time, you didn't mention Israel, you mentioned Jews. You either can't understand the difference or won't. You simply could have said that you meant Israel instead of Jews, but instead of being a man and admiting you were wrong you act like a punk and try to rationalize your Anti-Semetism. Go ahead and take the last word, trying to reason with you is a waste of time. I think I'll go shooting for a while. With poeple like you using up oxygen, it pays for us "Jews" to keep our shooting skills sharp.
First, I'm an anti-semite, NOW, the implication I wanna kill you??
You LOVE to put words and ideas in the mouths and minds, of others don't you??
Disagree with the Israelites, and get CRUCIFIED for it!!
SOME things, NEVER change, eh Larry??
You forgot greedy Jew
I tried to volunteer for the IDF a few weeks ago, Since I'm not jewish I can't fight They have to be able to trace your bloodline or something like that.
I was going to after my US Army time is up, I guess I can't now.
an Iraqi car bomber kills some brave Italian soldiers and its Israel's fault
Israel is a country. Perfectly permisible to even be prejudiced toward a country. (IMHO)
Jews are a people that live all over the world. Different story.
(az_l, thanks for noting the difference.)
I simply will never understand hatred of an entire people. One of the finest people I know is a Palestinian living in Dallas. One of my best frieds, Jewish, just died last month. I look at people as individuals - some good and some bad.
My views on the USS Liberty are pretty well known. Never, NEVER, have I held all the citizens of Israel responsible. Now Israeli governments, the Israeli military of that time............a different story.
"Bitch slapping" cannot be done over the internet. First off it has to be face to face and the person bitch slapping actually has to have the balls to do so,,,never bitch slap someone you know that you can beat up,,for then you are a coward. just my rant on long distant balls.
As far as "Jews" serving our Country of course there are some.
Beat me to it.
I'll bet that if the U.S. implemented a policy where only non-neo-cons (i.e. - complete whackos) could become citizens, Liberty (in fine Asshole Aspect in this thread), would be all for it.
Israel is the Jewish state, and they require non-Jews to request permission for citizenship.
Gee, THAT'S stupifying!
Actually, you can't get into the IDF because they don't take non Israelis. The only reason there are some American Jews serving, is that they also hold Israeli citizenship. If I as an American Jew tried to volunteer for the IDF, but wouldn't accept Israeli citizenship, they wouldn't let me serve either
Every country has it's own rules about immigration. The US has historically been one of the most flexible about such things, because historically we needed immigration to fill up our empty spaces.
In this day and age, though, many Americans aren't so open about these things. Example? Ask the average Californian how he feels about illegal immigrants who come here, have US born babies, who are then citizens of this country, and then collect welfare based on their "citizen" children needing aid.
In my own personal experience, one of my sons had a school friend whose mother was Japanese, and whose father was Pakistani. The parents divorced, the mother returned to Japan, and left her two half grown sons here in the US. Why? Because under Japanese law, the sons were not Japanese, and wqould have been treated as foreign "mongrels" if she'd taken them back with her.
Every society has its' own set of rules. You and I, as freborn Americans, may think the rules of others are silly, or worse. and they may think our rules are. That's just how things go
What did Jesus say about them ??
What's he gonna do?
Well, we can extropolate that out to what He's GOING to do, based on His own words Eric..
I don't believe, He'd be particularly approving of them any more today, than He was then!!
OR, do you think he's changed His mind??
YOU challenge my Faith??
Tell me Eric, A Christian, a Gentile, A Muslim, and a Jew, are all standing before the Throne on judgement day... (Throw in a polock, just for good measure.. )
What does the Father see, when He looks at them??
Yes indeed, and when ya "bitch slap" someone, be prepared, if they don't behave like a bitch...Ya might get your ass surprised.
Ya, I looked like an easy mark for SOME folks, eh?
Yep!! And good on 'em!!
roger, are you suggesting that Mossad, or the Israeli govt. had something to do with this??
Back up for the Hun, I see he's online now....
The entire reply of liberty86 is an act of self evidencing stupidity and antisemite biased thought.
Israel is criticized for what? Because is giving to Jewish citiziens Israeli citizienship before others?
I agree with the Israeli policy.
BTW no UN legal committee (except the representatives of Arab countries...) found anything violating Human Right in it.
Otherwise a LOT of Arab conuntries would be found guilt for even worse discriminations.
In my contry you can get Italian citizienship if you can demonstrate that your ancestors up to a certain degree (let say two or three generations backward) have been Italian citiziens. While if you don't have this requisite you can wait up to six years to get it. And it is the EQUIVALENT of the Right of Return for Jews: we choosed as parameters Italian ancestors, Israel choosed as parameters Jewish ancestors.
There are many legislation in the world that put in essere such a right with various denominations in name of their national identities.
To get the Israeli citizenship for not-Jewish people involves some requisites. Basically they are:
1) they must have resided in Israel for three years out of the five years preceding the day of submission of the application.
2) they are entitled to reside in Israel permanently and have settled or intend to settle in Israel;
3) they have renounced their prior nationality, or have proved that they will cease to be foreign nationals upon becoming Israeli citizens.
4) Knoledge of Hebrew language
5) They must swear loyalty to the State of Israel
The discretional part of getting Israeli citizienship for non Jewish people is NOT made to deny the citizienship, but to cancel some of the requirements (I quote):
The Minister of the Interior may exempt an applicant from some of these requirements.
Tha is to make easier for some not-Jewish people to became Israeli.
The only REALLY needed is the point 5).
I challenge anyone here, pro or against Israel, to say that ANY STATE would not include such a statement in the requisites to allow a foreigner to take their citizenship...
For the point # 3) is questionable. It depends by bilateral agreements. Before the agreement between Italy and Israel fo 1992 if you wanted to get Israeli citizienship you should renounce to Italian citizienship within one year from your arrival. Now you can be both Israeli and Italian.
The criticism, at this point, are I guess not because ureasonable requisites that the Israeli laws demands, but because is ISRAEL put them.
And this has a very precise name: prejudice.
My post was only bitter to see how we Italians, fighting the same Israel and USA enemy and getting hit by Al Qaeda terror attacks (today emails to Al'Arabyya TV clearly said that was Al Qaeda behind the attack to Instabul and Nassiryiah...), were neglected by Israeli media.
I understood that my thread was hijacked by the usual Israel bashers. And this is very far from a legitimate critic to a state (as Israel is...) and much colser to an illegitimate hate behaviour.
I am still supporting Israel, but at the same time I am saying that Israel is still far from being perfect. And, further more, also USA are far from being without contraddiction. But this doesen't make me an USA basher...
Sadly if these were French troops there would be MANY comments like that and most of you would be ok with it. T-sox simply pointed out a well known fact from WWII. You cant deny history and the truth. It was a simple observation. Don't read too much into it.
Good morning, Liberty. Looks like Eric got tired and quit. Can't say I blame him.
I'll take a shot at answering your post, if I may.
I won't accuse you of hating the Jews. But you are obviously no friend of Isreal or Jews. Too bad. You ought to be.
I am sure you can differentiate between Jesus discussions regarding the nation of Israel and his condemnation of the individual leaders (to whom He is speaking) and their personal godlessness.
He was, as I know you know, speaking of their individual refusal to accept Him as Savior. In their refusal, they were demonstrating that they were "of their father", Satan.
Of course, that applies not only to Jews, but to all that refuse to accept Jesus as Lord.
Not hardly. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. As you well know.
He sees the blood of Jesus, or the lack thereof. Nothing else will matter.
I love Jews and Israel. And it saddens me to know that many of them will be eterality lost because of their refusal to accept the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
But this same God that you and I agree never changes His mind, said:
Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
How can any Christian justify hatred of Israel? Our Savior was a Jew. He still loves Israel and we must also.
Does that mean that I support them when they are wrong? No. But it does mean that I support them when they are right and pray for them when they are wrong.
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
OK, I'll bite on this one. He would see either saved souls or damned souls. If the individual accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior, then that soul could enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If the individual did not accept Christ as his Savior, that soul would be sent to eternal damnation in Hell.
Pretty simple. I don't know if that's what you were getting at, though.
A word about the Italians in Nas.
They took over the compound that had been held by elements of 2nd Battalion, 25th Marines (my unit).
2/25 maintained a highly protective posture. All avenues of approach were covered by direct and indirect fire, as well as obstacles. They also had a defense in depth, which included vehicle checkpoints. 2/25 arrived soon after the 507th debacle, they turned the place over to the Italians in August.
When the Italians arrived, they explained to the Marines that they would do things "differently". They said that the Marines were "warfighters", but they were "peacekeepers". They brought with them showers, elaborate kitchens, and many other luxuries. They stopped doing dismounted patrols (all of 2/25's HUNDREDS of Nas-local, combat patrols were DISMOUNTED).
The Italians also parked their refueler in the road leading into the compound.
I love Italy, Berlusconi, and all of the Italians whom I've had the pleasure to meet.
They just are not expeditionary in their military mindset.
In all the months 2/25 was there, before Baghdad even fell, they had zero casualties.
They owe this to their own training and abilities. They recieved and returned fire often. Their "returned fire" was very effective.
I wish the Italians had sent "warfighters", rather than "peacekeepers".
Perhaps they would still be alive.